"Free" Healthcare: Our Founding Fathers' Opinions

macgyver06

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

huh?
I am staunchly opposed to universal health care tax.
?

i wasnt directing that to you...just gigantic people whot ake way too any pills and thinks its a fashion statement

U R A Crazy Breed

everyone wants to suck on the tit of government and turn socialist!!

we don't need free health care,just AFFORDABLE health care.But when you live in a fascist country where the government is in bed with big business and big pharma and they get together and scheme up ways to rape you instead of help you....you get our present system!

the forefathers were light years ahead of our present "leaders" as far as intelligence is concerned.so while the constitution may be 200 years old we would be much better off if it was still observed and adhered to.

oh.and let's not forget that during the times of slavery there were BLACK tribes that enslaved and sold off other BLACK tribes.it wasn't all white guys doing dirt.
slavery was common place back then.not that it makes it right but you need to understand the times.

and is America perfect? no!! but it WAS the best dam country that there ever was.
I'm very sad to see it go and so should all of you.

DriftingByTheStorm

Crazy Breed wrote:

everyone wants to suck on the tit of government and turn socialist!!

we don't need free health care,just AFFORDABLE health care.But when you live in a fascist country where the government is in bed with big business and big pharma and they get together and scheme up ways to rape you instead of help you....you get our present system!

the forefathers were light years ahead of our present "leaders" as far as intelligence is concerned.so while the constitution may be 200 years old we would be much better off if it was still observed and adhered to.

oh.and let's not forget that during the times of slavery there were BLACK tribes that enslaved and sold off other BLACK tribes.it wasn't all white guys doing dirt.
slavery was common place back then.not that it makes it right but you need to understand the times.

and is America perfect? no!! but it WAS the best dam country that there ever was.
I'm very sad to see it go and so should all of you.

Unfortunately government schools have taught and trained self-loathing white men for the past half century.

Whoa are we, the white men. Cursed are we.
How evil we have been.

I don't doubt that the white man is an evil fucker,
but taking it out on some of the best of the bunch is pretty sad.

:(

Whoa! Kill all the white men!

U R A Crazy Breed

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Unfortunately government schools have taught and trained self-loathing white men for the past half century.

Whoa are we, the white men. Cursed are we.
How evil we have been.

I don't doubt that the white man is an evil fucker,
but taking it out on some of the best of the bunch is pretty sad.

:(

Whoa! Kill all the white men!

yeah,this bleeding heart shit makes me sick.Like those idiots who tried to label the minutemen as racist for trying to keep illegal aliens out of this country!!

know1

macgyver06 wrote:

insurance companies are responsible for the false rise in health care prices its a pretend system..


make the insurance companies illegal and the working class will have health care.

otherwise people will continue to get super rich... and remember.. these people do not want change when they in their own..sick...tiwsted heads are living what they assume is the american dream.. but in actuality is just greed and they are still slaves.. money cant buy you out of that

Yes!! Ban the insurance companies. I can't say that enough. They are the major cause of the problem.

fanch75

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.wordpress.com/2008/04/04/94-free-healthcare/

"Stuff White People Like"

#94 Free Healthcare
April 4, 2008 by clander

In spite of having access to the best health insurance and fanciest hospitals, white people are passionate about the idea of socialized medicine. So much so that they have memorized statistics and examples of how for-profit medicine has destroyed the United States.

But before you can exploit this information for personal gain, it’s important that you understand why white people are so in love with free health care.

The first and most obvious reason is “they have it Europe.” White people love all things European, this especially true of things that are unavailable in the United States (Rare Beers, Absinthe, legal marijuana, prostitution, soccer). The fact that it’s available in Canada isn’t really that impressive, but it does contribute to their willingness to threaten to move there.

These desires were only heightened in 2007 when Michael Moore released “Sicko,” a documentary that contrasts the health care industry in the United States with that of Canada, France and Cuba. As a general rule of thumb, white people are always extra passionate about issues that have been the subject of a Moore documentary. As a test, ask them about 9/11, Gun Control, or Health Care and then say “where did you get that information?” You will not be surprised at the results.

But the secret reason why all white people love socialized medicine is that they all love the idea of receiving health care without having a full-time job. This would allow them to work as a freelance designer/consultant/copywriter/photographer/blogger, open their own bookstore, stay at home with their kids, or be a part of an Internet start-up without having to worry about a benefits package. Though many of them would never follow this path, they appreciate having the option.

If you need to impress a white person, merely mention how you got hurt on a recent trip Canada/England/Sweden and though you were a foreigner you received excellent and free health care. They will be very impressed and likely tell you about how powerful drug and health care lobbies are destroying everything.

Though their passion for national health care runs deep, it is important to remember that white people are most in favor of it when they are healthy. They love the idea of everyone have equal access to the resources that will keep them alive, that is until they have to wait in line for an MRI.

This is very similar to the way that white people express their support for public schools when they don’t have children.

DriftingByTheStorm

fanch75 wrote:

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.wordpress.com/2008/04/04/94-free-healthcare/

"Stuff White People Like"

#94 Free Healthcare
April 4, 2008 by clander

In spite of having access to the best health insurance and fanciest hospitals, white people are passionate about the idea of socialized medicine. So much so that they have memorized statistics and examples of how for-profit medicine has destroyed the United States.

But before you can exploit this information for personal gain, it’s important that you understand why white people are so in love with free health care.

The first and most obvious reason is “they have it Europe.” White people love all things European, this especially true of things that are unavailable in the United States (Rare Beers, Absinthe, legal marijuana, prostitution, soccer). The fact that it’s available in Canada isn’t really that impressive, but it does contribute to their willingness to threaten to move there.

These desires were only heightened in 2007 when Michael Moore released “Sicko,” a documentary that contrasts the health care industry in the United States with that of Canada, France and Cuba. As a general rule of thumb, white people are always extra passionate about issues that have been the subject of a Moore documentary. As a test, ask them about 9/11, Gun Control, or Health Care and then say “where did you get that information?” You will not be surprised at the results.

But the secret reason why all white people love socialized medicine is that they all love the idea of receiving health care without having a full-time job. This would allow them to work as a freelance designer/consultant/copywriter/photographer/blogger, open their own bookstore, stay at home with their kids, or be a part of an Internet start-up without having to worry about a benefits package. Though many of them would never follow this path, they appreciate having the option.

If you need to impress a white person, merely mention how you got hurt on a recent trip Canada/England/Sweden and though you were a foreigner you received excellent and free health care. They will be very impressed and likely tell you about how powerful drug and health care lobbies are destroying everything.

Though their passion for national health care runs deep, it is important to remember that white people are most in favor of it when they are healthy. They love the idea of everyone have equal access to the resources that will keep them alive, that is until they have to wait in line for an MRI.

This is very similar to the way that white people express their support for public schools when they don’t have children.

thanks for dragging this one back from the grave, fanchy.


The "they have it in Europe and it 'works'..." argument has alwasy bugged the everloving shit out of me.

Just like the people who argue that fiat money and the Fed are perfectly acceptable and 'good' because it "has worked so far" ... those who argue this reasoning for healthcare are likewise misinformed.

Fact - no country that has turned to fiat money has ever survived the ages. The modern governments of this world that run on fiat currency are only waiting for their turn to fall. The "prosperity" of these nations is perpetuated longer than it normaly would only by international institutions and arangements like the IMF and Worldbank which allow for the shell-game to take place across continents. The massive collective "debt" owed by the United States and it's future generations WILL one day wreak the havoc that these proponents have for decades ignored as an imaterial triviality.

Socialized medicine perpetuates the above mentioned system, and creates a condition where society collectively is forced to repay debts that the original debtor (the one who needs socialized medicine) could not themselves repay. Unfortunately the collective net of these obligations can NOT ultimately be met by society, repayment is impossible, and inflation becomes rampant.

Further, to understand that the debt is inextricably related to the very currency itself underscores the severity of the problem -- this is not just a "debt" that can or must be repaid! Everytime (or each year, or period) that the government is forced to pay out on claims for which it has no money, it is required to take on more debt and in congruence print more money.

When one understands this, they are forced to the realization that such debts, because of the system of fiat currency, are no longer simple obligations to future repayment ... rather they are actualy burdens encumbered by the issuance of new currency which can never be repaid. Of course, this is not entirely true, the currency itself can be extinguished by the collective repayment of debts by private entities to the banks themselves, however when this occurs it is what economists refer to as "deflation", and it is a force probably more destructive of personal wealth in aggregate than is inflation. The contraction of prices, currency, and investment values is precisely the peril facing our country today, and it is the underlying reason that the Fed continues to change policies to allow for the further issuance of currency at an increasingly rapid pace -- the contraction of debt\currency can NOT occur in a functioning economy without serious and dire economic consequences. Growth must be sustained and failue to continue this trajectory will ultimately lead to the destruction and downfall of the nation.

THIS is my primary and overwhelming concern with socialized medicine. Its perpetuation and acceleration of the system of inflation will be catastrophic to our national economy in the medium to long term.

:(

Sludge Factory

fanch75 wrote:

The first and most obvious reason is “they have it Europe.” White people love all things European, this especially true of things that are unavailable in the United States (Rare Beers, Absinthe, legal marijuana, prostitution, soccer). The fact that it’s available in Canada isn’t really that impressive, but it does contribute to their willingness to threaten to move there.

Prostitution is legal over in Europe?

beachdweller

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

All though i've noticed that a lot of the people on this board could give two shits what the great people who founded America thought about anything, i never the less though i would at least put these up here to demonstrate just how far away from the true American ideal the thought process in this country has regressed:

“Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated.” -Thomas Jefferson

“With respect to the two words ‘general welfare,’ I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators.” - James Madison

“…[T]he government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government.” -James Madison

“When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” -Benjamin Franklin

“A wise and frugal government … shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.” -Thomas Jefferson

Keep on blindly believing in freedom by government decree and thus heradling the end of the republic.
:rolleyes:

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." - Jefferson

there are two sides to this coin, we also need to understand WHO the where refering too. If you understand the context in reference, the words aren't as true as you may read them today. The constitution was specifically written to ensure male white landowners remained in power in this new countries hierarchy. Woman, children, slaves were not a part of the group the freedoms were for.

As for 'general welfare', this could have meant that they didn't have these concerns, and didn't want to be responsible for providing for those of lesser importance. Kind of like now-a-days it seems.

I actually believe there words have become more important and encompassing now, then they actually were back then.

I find it hard to believe that that was there intent.

beachdweller

Sludge Factory wrote:

Prostitution is legal over in Europe?

it is in Germany, it's controlled though, they have to be registered, see doctors regularly and get tested. I'm sure they pay taxes on their take also.

DriftingByTheStorm

beachdweller wrote:

there are two sides to this coin, we also need to understand WHO the where refering too. If you understand the context in reference, the words aren't as true as you may read them today. The constitution was specifically written to ensure male white landowners remained in power in this new countries hierarchy. Woman, children, slaves were not a part of the group the freedoms were for.

As for 'general welfare', this could have meant that they didn't have these concerns, and didn't want to be responsible for providing for those of lesser importance. Kind of like now-a-days it seems.

I actually believe there words have become more important and encompassing now, then they actually were back then.

I find it hard to believe that that was there intent.

i'm not sure i see any connection between the inequity between a gentleman and that of a woman or black of the time, and the intent of the words i have quoted.

It overarching concern of these quotations is simply that the duties of charity and public welfare are those of the citizenry themselves, through private venture. The constitution does not issue government the mandate to provide these services, nor does it authorize the right to do so. The right to do so is reserved strictly to the people themselves.

This is a theme repeated many times in many ways throughout the years, and between these men.

The fact that they were insensitive or wholy ignorant of the rights and equities of women and blacks, to me, is irrelevant to the positions they took on the duties of government.

know1

Pacomc79 wrote:

Honestly I still think the root of the problem is the insurance companies and thier rise since World War 2 due to witholding of money from paychecks and people not really knowing what they pay for healthcare. It's the same deal as income tax really.

Totally agree. GET RID OF THE HEALTH INSURANCE INDUSTRY.

Coming back to life

I'm interested to know if in America certain people without an income and not qualified for any benefits have to pay certain taxes, like council tax in the uk? If so, surely your government like ours is getting something for nothing? And when you throw in no NHS as well, fuckin ell, what a fucked up way to run a country.