You do realize you're asking how to deal with ONE man without going to war, right? Shouldn't that answer be relatively obvious....? Cut off the head n all that....?
Well an ideology really, but my question is how does passifism solve the problem? This man, and thousands of others like him out there will stop at nothing untill the world is under Islamic control. Even if we completely cut our selves off from the Middle East, I don't think they will go away. I'm looking for answers here.
truer words have never been written. Most conspiracy theories are an oversimplification of why certain things happen the way they do, and the people who create them can't comprehend that these events occur because of far more complicated interactions than they (or anyone) can calculate.
Holy shit, this is the smartest thing I've ever read on this board! No really, great point, I say it all the time when it comes to issues like Iraq, or the current economic situation in the US. There is a lot more to these issues then any of us can understand. All we see is what the media reports, the truth is complicated. All we can do is go into it with and open mind and ask questions.
CHAPTER THREE
AIDS is the weapon of a powerful segment of society whose spiritual forefathers date back centuries. The epidemic is the culmination of the intellectual and spiritual tradition of some of the richest and most powerful people alive, many of them famous and respected figures from families whose names are household words and held in high esteem by the public. Their indifference-or contempt-for the lives of common humanity should not come as a surprise, nor be hard to believe.
Since at least the height of British colonial domination of the world, there has been a potent strain of thinking among "aristocrats" about superior races (white, English speaking, educated and rich) and inferior races (white or black or colored, uneducated and poor). The entire British colonial system was based on the ruthless domination by a few of the "superior" over vast numbers of the "inferior."
America itself was founded in rebellion against that domination. The American Revolution was an overthrow of those old ideas about who should rule-and how. And then the new Americans turned right around and did the same thing to their own "inferiors," allowing slavery for blacks and committing genocide against Native Americans with a rapacity that would have gratified the most ruthless British colonialists.
Philosophers revered as great thinkers by the British aristocrats of those centuries openly expressed their views that the inferior peoples of the planet must not be allowed to increase sufficiently in numbers to use up the earth's precious natural resources and, eventually, to overrun by sheer numbers the existing political and economic system.
The most prominent 18th Century spokesman for the British East India Company policies of global genocide was the economist Adam Smith. His book, The Wealth of Nations, is still required reading in college economics classes. He wrote several works on forced population reduction, the most notable being The Treatise of Human Nature and The Theory of Moral Sentiments, in which he placed mankind on the level of animals.
Smith's ideas were advanced in the 19th Century by philosophers as prominent as Thomas Malthus, another high-ranking employee of the British East India Company. To the acclaim of the British upper classes, Malthus actually wrote in the mid-1800's: "All children who are born, beyond what would be needed to keep up the population to a desired level, must necessarily perish, unless room be made for them by the death of grown persons.We should facilitate, instead of desperately trying to impede, the operation of nature in producing this mortality, and if we dread the all too often visitation of the horrid form of famine, we should sedulously encourage the other forms of destruction which we compel nature to use."
Malthus' modest proposals included that the poor be educated into habits of filth rather than cleanliness and that poor villages should be built "near stagnant pools and particularly encourage settlements in marshy and unwholesome situations." And he encouraged that restraint be enforced upon those misguidedly benevolent men who would try to protect the poor from contagious diseases.
Malthus was a respected writer of his era, and though not one American in a thousand has read his work since some boring college class, his name remains famous. His writings were eminent enough to be responsible for the invention of a word that remains in our language even now: Malthusian. Meaning: "Of or pertaining to the theory of Thomas Malthus that population tends to increase faster than food supply, with inevitably disastrous results unless the increase in population can be checked."
Inevitably disastrous results unless the increase in population can be checked. Precisely. And in one sentence, the meaning of "Malthusian" captures perfectly what the AIDS epidemic is really all about: Population control. Malthusian philosophy was heralded in the 20th Century by esteemed British writers who included H. G. Wells (of "War of the Worlds" fame) and Lord Bertrand Russell. Near the end of his long life, Lord Russell won acclaim among antiwar activists for his outspoken opposition to American involvement in Vietnam. But what they didn't know was that he just thought war was a horribly messy and inefficient way to kill people. Not to mention the property destruction and expensive munitions.
Throughout his career, Lord Russell spoke of the aristocratic aspiration toward a more refined form of genocide. In The Impact of Science on Society, he made it clear what they had in mind: "I do not pretend that birth control is the only way in which population can be kept from increasing. There are others, which, one must suppose, opponents of birth control would prefer. War, as I remarked a moment ago, has hitherto been disappointing in this respect, but perhaps bacteriological war may prove effective. If a Black Death could be spread throughout the world once in every generation, survivors could procreate freely without making the world too full. There would be nothing in this to offend the conscience of the devout or to restrain the ambition of nationalists. This state of affairs might be somewhat unpleasant, but what of it. Really high-minded people are indifferent to suffering, especially that of others."
But of course. How else to run an empire? In 1953, when Lord Russell's book was published, there was very little public knowledge of bacteriological warfare. Yet he spoke of it knowingly and lovingly, and he clearly indicated that poor nations would be targeted.
That virulent strain of thought continues-and reaches to the top. In 1962, the CIBA foundation held a symposium, "Man and His Future," at which the keynote speaker was Francis Krick. His favored tactics of population control included putting a chemical that would cause sterility in the water supplies of those nations he judged as "not fit to have children." Other nations deemed fit would be given a license to purchase an antidote.
"This approach may run against Christian ethics," he said in a nice touch of understatement, "but I do not see why people should have a right to have children. We might be able to achieve remarkable results after twenty or thirty years by limiting reproduction to genetically superior couples."
He talked about the benefits that could come to a country that "improved its population on a grand scale." What type of people was Frick talking about? A study of his work leaves no doubt that "limiting reproduction to genetically superior couples," as he wished to do, would exclude Negroes, Jews, Gypsies and the Asian races. The year was not 1939 but 1962, and the country was not Nazi Germany, but the United States of America. These were not the musings of a deranged madman, but the philosophical essence of one of the foremost microbiologists in the world. Francis Krick was a winner of the Nobel Prize.
And thirty-some years later, here we are. Those responsible for the AIDS epidemic have at long last created the perfect tool for their Malthusian solution to their most pressing problem: Population control.
Who are those people?
"Code Word" is one of the highest security ratings for classified government documents. "Code Word Cardinal" is the password to the file containing intelligence information on a small group of the world's most powerful people. Some intelligence officers call them "Force X." They call themselves "The Olympians." They stand behind numerous organizations that deal in areas of global policy-such as the Global 2000 Committee and the Club of Rome-and even the closed and elite circle of government officials who know of their existence and some of their activities stand in awe at their power to dictate to governments and multinational corporations they control through ownership-or fear.
Their ruthlessness is well known to those who might fantasize about opposing them-or blowing the whistle on them. There's nowhere to hide. These families rule the world-and they take that power as their absolute, God-given right, and destroy without mercy anyone who might seriously threaten their privilege.
The existence of this group-let's call them "The Olympians," just as they call themselves-is one of the best-kept secrets of the 20th Century. And what they've done to mold life and humanity to their will-from the scourge of pellagra through the AIDS epidemic-is the scandal of the century. AIDS is merely their latest-and potentially most ruthless and destructive-form of warfare against ordinary humanity.
Nice stuff, huh?
I mean the thoughts of those great thinkers of the past, with regard to population, that is.
And yet there are those who would question why some in the elite would want a tool like AIDS?
Is it not plainly obvious?
Really?
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I believe that in this case -- as is most any conspiracy theory -- if you subcribe to the theory of Occam's Razor then this is just a bunch of fun/funny science fiction. Seriously though, because Osama bin Laden says that the US government did something evil (as if he would ever say anything to the contrary) we should believe it? Is someone here about ready to pull a John Walker???
And secondly, from the Snopes article... "We make the arrogant assumption that our world should always make sense according to our current level of knowledge; such a premise works well in most cases but breaks down in the face of matters our understanding does not yet encompass. At those moments at least some of us scramble to find explanations – any explanations – that can be shoehorned into service." This quote pretty much summarizes the frame of mind required to believe in this bologna.
Isn't occam's razor all about arrogant assumptions, and making sense of the unexplained? I see occam's razor being invoked in SO many 'alternative history' ( ) threads, then see contradictory comments like the one above...and this one:
Most conspiracy theories are an oversimplification of why certain things happen the way they do, and the people who create them can't comprehend that these events occur because of far more complicated interactions than they (or anyone) can calculate..
oversimplification = occam's razor, no? (I know you didn't bring it up).
Well an ideology really, but my question is how does passifism solve the problem? This man, and thousands of others like him out there will stop at nothing untill the world is under Islamic control. Even if we completely cut our selves off from the Middle East, I don't think they will go away. I'm looking for answers here.
Do you really think that Al Qaeda, with a membership of like 1000 people, has any chance at world domination, regardless of their intentions? A radical ideology is only as strong as those that support it...I'm sure white supremacists would love to rule the world....should we invade and occupy Idaho, killing any who we deem a threat? Pacifism doesn't doesn't stop fundamentalism, but it breaks the cycle of violence that drive people to it.
Isn't occam's razor all about arrogant assumptions, and making sense of the unexplained? I see occam's razor being invoked in SO many 'alternative history' ( ) threads, then see contradictory comments like the one above...and this one:
oversimplification = occam's razor, no? (I know you didn't bring it up).
Do you really think that Al Qaeda, with a membership of like 1000 people, has any chance at world domination, regardless of their intentions? A radical ideology is only as strong as those that support it...I'm sure white supremacists would love to rule the world....should we invade and occupy Idaho, killing any who we deem a threat? Pacifism doesn't doesn't stop fundamentalism, but it breaks the cycle of violence that drive people to it.
Karl Marx was one person, Hitler was also just one person with a small gathering. Its amazing what people will follow in desperate times. It only takes one radical to tell people what they want to hear to get into power.
Please correct me, but I can't think of one point in history where pacifism worked in ignoring a problem? We seen what pacifism does in the past, it lets the problem get bigger and bigger. And the cycle of violence continues untill someone stops it. If we ignor the issue, fundamentalism will take control one place at a time.
Hitler was also just one person with a small gathering.
You do realize that Hitler was backed by massive international financial interests, and his warchest and industries were heavily funded by American, British, and shadowy international figures, right?
Ford, Rockefeller -- Standard Oil \ IG Farben, IBM, The Bush family via Thyssen, Citibank, and many other large players on the international elite scene were the real players behind Hitler's stupendous rise.
Similarly,
if you want to buy in to the "conspiracy theory",
that would be why Al Qaeda is such a smashing "success".
They have the tacit approval of the US government and its own international controlers. They serve a purpose. They create a shadowy enemy that can be fought in perpetuity, and they can be blamed for anything that intelligence operatives can fabricate a link to. In short, they are the perfect patsy.
:(
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
You do realize that Hitler was backed by massive international financial interests, and his warchest and industries were heavily funded by American, British, and shadowy international figures, right?
Ford, Rockefeller -- Standard Oil \ IG Farben, IBM, The Bush family via Thyssen, Citibank, and many other large players on the international elite scene were the real players behind Hitler's stupendous rise.
Similarly,
if you want to buy in to the "conspiracy theory",
that would be why Al Qaeda is such a smashing "success".
They have the tacit approval of the US government and its own international controlers. They serve a purpose. They create a shadowy enemy that can be fought in perpetuity, and they can be blamed for anything that intelligence operatives can fabricate a link to. In short, they are the perfect patsy.
:(
About Hitler, where did you find this information that he was financially backed by Britian and America prior to his election? Just for my own knowledge?
And where did you get your facts that Al Qaeda is a mearly a puppet for the West to use as an excuse?
Karl Marx was one person, Hitler was also just one person with a small gathering. Its amazing what people will follow in desperate times. It only takes one radical to tell people what they want to hear to get into power.
Please correct me, but I can't think of one point in history where pacifism worked in ignoring a problem? We seen what pacifism does in the past, it lets the problem get bigger and bigger. And the cycle of violence continues untill someone stops it. If we ignor the issue, fundamentalism will take control one place at a time.
Pacifism alone can be viewed as ignoring a problem...kinda like what the majority of us Westerners are doing while our soldiers die (and destroy families and countries overseas). But pacifism combined with non-violent protest has proven successful many-a-time. I'm sure you can think of several achievements of pacifist, non-violent protest.
Now, I know that this doesn't work with fundamentalists....but I can't support invading a country to find one man and a few followers (two countries if you count the reason the US invaded Iraq, revision 2). If the US wants to take out their old buddy, they should find a way to do it without creating more terrorists. We're only making things worse.
About Hitler, where did you find this information that he was financially backed by Britian and America prior to his election? Just for my own knowledge?
And where did you get your facts that Al Qaeda is a mearly a puppet for the West to use as an excuse?
Or is this just an opinion?
I don't mean Britain and America proper as governments, i mean as hotbeds of sponsorship via the "elite", their corporations, and their behind the scenes collusion with the reich.
I don't think i could give you any specific source, its all over the net though. Here. That link looks amazingly thorough. I forgot about GE. doh.
Check it out.
Western interests were totally in bed with Hitler.
They used him to help balkanize europe, and also to loot europe and plunder gold. The gold was secretly routed through Switzerland and Swiss banks, and some of it even found its way to the USA.
Conversely, they were doing fair amount of bet hedging, by ensuring that the reich was friendly to their business and to their blood.
You have never heard of things like the IBM-Hollerith connection to the 3rd Reich? There have been whole books written on IBM alone. Without IBM (and there is documented proof of direct contact with IBM New York, not just the German subsidy, as IBM STILL claims today) the holocaust could NEVER have happened. IBM routed the trains, tracked the prisoners, was the reason for the tattoos on the forearms, and controlled ALL movement of jews and undesirables via their punchcard accounting systems -- tailored and designed specificaly to the needs of the Reich.
Blech. Blech. Blech.
As for Al Qaeda, i guess that falls more under "opinion" at this time, since true "facts" are very slow to emerge in this world (it took what, 40 years for JFK to be figured out in large part? and we are still probably only 75% on that) ... but suffice to say that islamic extremism was all but invented by Zbignew Brzezinski in order to defeat the Russians, and that "Al Qaeda" and wahhabist sunni muslims in general have been used as mercenaries for hire by the US government for a LONG time ... and they have been used around the world! Bought and sold.
That is not to say that they don't have their own "real" aims, not to say that they may believe they are acting in their own interests without manipulation, but at the end of the day they are only still alive because the US wants them alive, and because we often buy their services in order to create chaos and conflict. Hell we have been doing it in Iraq for the past few years. It came out in reports that we were paying them to fight and stir up shit when there was that lull a few years ago ('04-'05 or so) and then when shit got too hot ... we started paying them not to fight. incredible shit, i tell ya.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Nice stuff, huh?
I mean the thoughts of those great thinkers of the past, with regard to population, that is.
And yet there are those who would question why some in the elite would want a tool like AIDS?
Is it not plainly obvious?
Really?
Well the population control kind of failed miserably don't you think? The UN (the dreaded new world order) even has to do birth control prevention in 3rd world countries to try and prevent future crisis. Aside from being a tragedy Aids is an enormous economic burden for many countries but is absolutely not a population control tool, or a very uneffective one.
Malthus actually wrote in the mid-1800's: "All children who are born, beyond what would be needed to keep up the population to a desired level, must necessarily perish, unless room be made for them by the death of grown persons.We should facilitate, instead of desperately trying to impede, the operation of nature in producing this mortality, and if we dread the all too often visitation of the horrid form of famine, we should sedulously encourage the other forms of destruction which we compel nature to use."
Got to love these 19th century thinkers. Oh by the way, he died in 1834 and his theory is supported by the theory of evolution. Are you familiar with it?
Populations grow exponentially (1, 2, 4, 16...) while ressources grow arithmetically (1, 2, 3, 4...), hence the problem between population growth and their ressources.
Got to love these 19th century thinkers. Oh by the way, he died in 1834 and his theory is supported by the theory of evolution. Are you familiar with it?
Populations grow exponentially (1, 2, 4, 16...) while ressources grow arithmetically (1, 2, 3, 4...), hence the problem between population growth and their ressources.
I think that thesis is pretty dead as in regards to humans. It may be more accurate as to animals that dont have the power to influence their surroundings to the degree humans do.
Malthus has sort of a point, cynical as it is, however he didn't really take into account the technological growth, and new forms of organizing society.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
I think that thesis is pretty dead as in regards to humans. It may be more accurate as to animals that dont have the power to influence their surroundings to the degree humans do.
Malthus has sort of a point, cynical as it is, however he didn't really take into account the technological growth, and new forms of organizing society.
Peace
Dan
True, his thesis was dispproved for humans, both ways. Not only do humans have the technology to change their surroundings but Europe already started to have a population decline (if you don't take into account immigration). However his most cynical point still stands, unlimited growth in a limited environment will most definitely lead to a crisis. The solution however does not lie by stopping curing people or having babies. I don't know Malthus that well but as a Pastor I doubt he was as radical as the article pointed him to be.
True, his thesis was dispproved for humans, both ways. Not only do humans have the technology to change their surroundings but Europe already started to have a population decline (if you don't take into account immigration). However his most cynical point still stands, unlimited growth in a limited environment will most definitely lead to a crisis. The solution however does not lie by stopping curing people or having babies. I don't know Malthus that well but as a Pastor I doubt he was as radical as the article pointed him to be.
Maybe he promoted abstinence....
Seriously though, the point that unlimited growth cannot continue in a limited environment is still relevant. Whether the population at some point balances out naturally or through strong measures, or we colonize space, it's pretty obvious that at some point the growth must be checked. And that doesnt mean supporting genocide or anything, which some people prefer to interpret it as.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Aside from being a tragedy Aids is an enormous economic burden for many countries but is absolutely not a population control tool, or a very uneffective one.
You think the elite are concerned at all about the financial pains of 3rd world governments? They love it. It means guaranteed subservience and ultimately failure to progress in the 21st century, and mass starvation.
Aside from that, AIDS is a huge economic BOON to the pharmaceutical corporations (owned by the elite) that contract with these governments and with the US government aid and NGO aid agencies to deliver "relief" and treatment to the affected regions.
And again, how is MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of dead Africans labeled "uneffective" as a standard of genocide by you?
Got to love these 19th century thinkers. Oh by the way, he died in 1834 and his theory is supported by the theory of evolution. Are you familiar with it?
Populations grow exponentially (1, 2, 4, 16...) while ressources grow arithmetically (1, 2, 3, 4...), hence the problem between population growth and their ressources.
Malthus was a pretty sick fuck. And the views being espoused in Chapter 3 by Smith and Malthus (that you are talking about here) are beyond simple Darwinian explanation of a function of nature. They are blanket SUGGESTIONS that man begin exterminating or "helping in to the grave" his fellow man by deceitful means of genocide. You may want to reread the passage. The quotes are pretty fucked up!
CHAPTER FOUR
This aristocratic tradition of "population control" found its expression in America in the early 20th Century with the formation in 1904 of what was then known as the "Station for Experimental Evolution." Funded by generous grants from Andrew Carnegie-who stated publicly that he was a hearty supporter of Malthus' ideas on "population control"-Cornelius Vanderbilt, J. P. Morgan and John D. Rockefeller, the Station conducted experiments involving different races. [DBTS Edit - Familiar names, right?]
One of their goals was to learn how to curb the rapid birth rate of blacks and other "coloreds." As outrageous as it may sound now, this was a goal that was very much on the minds of the Eastern rich in America. They were as frightened of being overrun by the masses-particularly the blacks-as the British had been of the natives they ruled in their colonies.
In 1910, Mrs. E. H. Harriman donated 80 acres of land at Cold Spring Harbor, Long Island, and $300,000 to the Station for Experimental Evolution to establish a "Eugenics Records Office." The widow of the man who created America's first great railroad fortune-the man who bankrolled the posse clever enough to track Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, frightening them off to South America-her fortune was estimated at somewhere around a half billion dollars. [DBTS Edit - this woman is the mother of W. Averell Harriman, the man that Prescott Bush and his father in law George Herbert Walker worked for, later in the century, when banking with Hitler was en vogue]
The newspapers called her the richest woman in the world, and she became a driving force behind eugenics research in America. (Eugenics is defined as "the study of hereditary improvement by genetic control.") The thrust of the research conducted at Cold Spring Harbor was to improve the superiority of the white race. Mrs. Harriman wanted a world-wide campaign of sterilization of defectives "to make race perfect." The creation of a Master Race, in other words.
The records of that era which are still available indicate that this was a socially acceptable view among the rich who supported Cold Spring Harbor. They were determinedly making plans to halt the birth rate of blacks and colored people-Indians and Asians-especially in Africa and the United States. A typical attitude among this group was expressed publicly by the vice president of the Immigration Restriction League, Madison Grant, a friend of Teddy Roosevelt's and a trustee of the Museum of Natural History:
"In Europe today, the amount of Nordic blood in each nation is a very fair measure of its strength in war and its standing in civilization. In the City of New York, and elsewhere in the United States there is a native American Aristocracy resting upon layer upon layer of immigrants of lower races.It has taken us 50 years to learn that speaking English, wearing good clothes and going to school and church does not transform a Negro into a white man.Americans will have a similar experience with the Polish Jew, whose dwarf stature, peculiar mentality and ruthless concentration on self-interests are being grafted upon the stock of the nation. Indiscriminate efforts to preserve babies among the lower classes often results in serious injury to the race."
Grant was a worthy heir to the spiritual tradition of Thomas Malthus-and he summarized nicely the world view of those who poured their money into the eugenics work of Cold Spring Harbor, both then and in the future. From 1915 until shortly before World War II, the Olympians opened the facilities at Cold Spring Harbor to many of Germany's leading genetic scientists. They conducted extensive research into the origins of various races and designed eugenics experiments to rid the world of the mentally retarded-who were called "undesirables" or "defectives." Cold Spring Harbor gained the reputation as the world's leader in eugenics research. The scions of the most respected American families, such as the Harrimans, funded these experiments-which continue until this day and led to the creation of the AIDS virus.
In the early days, they weren't even terribly secretive. There were seven superrich families who just accepted as their God-given privilege that they would someday own America-its natural resources and productive capacity-outright. Their ideas were not much advanced beyond feudalism. And they were so certain in their self-righteous rectitude that they openly told the press exactly what they planned. The press respectfully, even admiringly, published it. (Not completely unlike today's press.) These were the actual headlines from the New York World newspaper on September 4, 1915:
"Mrs. E. H. Harriman Backs a Gigantic Step in Eugenics Would Curb Defectives by the Hundreds of Thousands Over Series of Years.
To Make Race Perfect.
Aid of Rockefeller and Carnegie Hoped For in World-Wide Campaign."
The story began: "A world-wide campaign for the sterilization of defectives is called for in a report to the Eugenic Society, which has its headquarters at Cold Spring Harbor, Long Island and is generously aided financially by Mrs. E. H. Harriman. John D. Rockefeller and Andrew Carnegie are expected to contribute."
The Eugenics Office inflicted its cruelty from the beginning. Very early on, in 1915, they discovered in their scientific research that pellagra-a disease that still inflicted a high death toll-was caused by an insufficiency of niacin. The cure was a simple dietary one. Instead of spreading that information publicly, the Eugenics Office urged a diet of corn, which provides no niacin, and then viciously attacked other medical researchers who claimed that niacin prevented pellagra.
In particular, Mrs. Harriman ordered the Eugenics Office director, William Davenport, to heap contempt on the "niacin theory." She knew he wouldn't let her down. What had drawn her to hire him in the first place was an article in which he singled out the Irish as "defectives who genetically were not able to ward off tuberculosis." So with that moral and scientific view of humanity, he had no qualms about complying with her demand.
Financed by Mrs. Harriman, he published voluminous position papers discrediting the theory about niacin. Naturally, the Eugenics Records Office carried great weight in the medical community, and as a result, it was not until 1935 that the evidence about niacin was so incontrovertible that the Cold Spring Harbor theory-and its recommended corn diet-were discredited. But the fraud worked. During that generation, from 1915 to 1935, the Records Office stated that millions of "undesirable Southern poor whites and negroes died from the ravages of pellagra."
In 1932, the Third International Conference of Eugenics was held at the Museum of Natural History in New York City. It was sponsored by Mrs. H. R. duPont of the Delaware duPont family and a short roster of America's wealthiest-and most rabid-racists masquerading as environmentalists and eugenics benefactors: Mrs. Mary Averill Harriman, Major Leonard Darwin-the son of Charles Darwin, famous for his "Survival of the Fittest" natural selection philosophy-Mrs. John T. Pratt, Mrs. Walter Jennings, Dr. J. Harvey Kellogg, Henry Fairchild Osborn, Colonel William Draper and Mr. and Mrs. Cleveland H. Dodge.
Mrs. Pratt was of the Standard Oil Pratts, as was Mrs. Jennings. Kellogg made his fortune from breakfast cereal-and was widely known for the "eccentricity" of his views. Colonel Draper founded the Draper Foundation (which later used Robert Strange McNamara, Maxwell Taylor and McGeorge Bundy to forward its racial-environmental views) and Mr. Dodge was the financial brains behind President Woodrow Wilson, who rhapsodized lovingly about the environment in his 1913 inaugural address not long before he geared up to send American troops into the carnage of World War I.
These people wanted the natural resources of the world preserved for the present and future use of their own friends and families. They had no use whatsoever for the world's "useless eaters," as Lord Russell called them. In the modern vernacular, their views would be seen for what they were: unregenerately racist-pure and simple. It was no accident that the founders of the modern day environmentalist movement were the heirs to the great petroleum and pharmaceutical fortunes; they valued the resources of the planet more highly than ordinary human life. Those millions who were poor-or worse, poor and non-white-had no good reason to live.
The Conference unanimously elected Dr. Ernst Rudin as president of the International Federation of Eugenics Organizations. Later, as co-author (with a member of the German Society for Racial Hygiene) of Hitler's law "For the Protection of German Blood and German Honour," Rudin earned himself a permanent niche in the pantheon of racism. (Hitler's law, incidentally, was based on a model developed at Cold Spring Harbor, the "Model Eugenical Sterilization Law" drafted in 1921.)
Henry Fairchild Osborn, a nephew of J. P. Morgan, was appointed vice president of the Conference. Osborn was the first known "racial-environmentalist" who connected "environmentalism" (a word invented by a close friend of Teddy Roosevelt) and "population control." Two years later, Osborn was awarded the Goethe medal by Hitler. In the light of the AIDS epidemic of the last 15 years, consider Osborn's opening speech to this august group in 1932:
"The outstanding generalization of my world tour are what may be summed up as 'six overs': overdestruction of natural resources, now actually worldwide, overmechanization in the substitution of the machine for animals and human labor, rapidly becoming worldwide, overconstruction of warehouses, ships, railroads, wharves and other means of transport, replacing primitive transportation; overproduction both of food and the mechanical wants of mankind, chiefly during the post-war (WWI) speculative period; overconfidence in future demand and supply, resulting in too rapid extension of both natural resources and mechanical equipment; overpopulation beyond the land areas or the capacity of the natural and scientific resources of the world, with consequent permanent unemployment of the least fitted.
"I have reached the opinion that overpopulation and underemployment are twin sisters. From this point of view I even find that the United States is overpopulated at the present time. In nature the less fitted individuals would gradually disappear, but in civilization, we are keeping them in the community in the hopes that in brighter days they may find employment. This is only another instance of humane civilization going directly against the order of nature and encouraging the survival of the unfittest."
In that same year, 1932, Cold Spring Harbor made its facilities available to German scientists working on racial concerns being voiced by Hitler and the burgeoning Nazi movement. In 1935, the Eugenics Records Office hosted a Conference on World Population in Berlin, and the American delegates included those already listed. The keynote speaker was German Interior Minister Wilhelm Frick. An American, Dr. Clarence G. Campbell, addressed the conference:
"The leader of the German nation, Adolf Hitler, ably supported by Dr. Frick and guided by Germany's anthropologists and social philosophers, has been able to construct a comprehensive policy of population development and improvement that promises to be epochal in racial history. It sets a pattern which other nations and other racial groups must follow if they do not wish to fall behind in racial quality, in their racial accomplishments and in their prospects for survival."
In the years immediately prior to World War II, the Harrimans' Cold Spring Harbor facilities remained open to Nazi Germany's leading genetic scientists, who then returned home and used their knowledge to forward Hitler's program of medical experiments designed to create a Master Race. From the documents I've been able to obtain, it is clear that the Eugenics Records Office pioneered racial experiments which were subsequently carried out in Nazi Germany-and may have been the model for Goering's T4 program, which, it is alleged, resulted in the killing of 400,000 mental patients who were classified as "defectives."
What we are seeing today, the AIDS epidemic, had its roots in the Cold Spring Harbor Eugenics Records Office, with its goal of curbing and reducing the birth rate of Negroes, Jews, "defectives" and "the layers upon layers of lower races." But, ultimately, Cold Spring Harbor scientists did more than show the way to a reduction in the birth rates of "undesirables." They succeeded in showing the way to murder millions of Lord Russell's "useless eaters.'
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Comments
Well an ideology really, but my question is how does passifism solve the problem? This man, and thousands of others like him out there will stop at nothing untill the world is under Islamic control. Even if we completely cut our selves off from the Middle East, I don't think they will go away. I'm looking for answers here.
Holy shit, this is the smartest thing I've ever read on this board! No really, great point, I say it all the time when it comes to issues like Iraq, or the current economic situation in the US. There is a lot more to these issues then any of us can understand. All we see is what the media reports, the truth is complicated. All we can do is go into it with and open mind and ask questions.
Nice stuff, huh?
I mean the thoughts of those great thinkers of the past, with regard to population, that is.
And yet there are those who would question why some in the elite would want a tool like AIDS?
Is it not plainly obvious?
Really?
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Do you really think that Al Qaeda, with a membership of like 1000 people, has any chance at world domination, regardless of their intentions? A radical ideology is only as strong as those that support it...I'm sure white supremacists would love to rule the world....should we invade and occupy Idaho, killing any who we deem a threat? Pacifism doesn't doesn't stop fundamentalism, but it breaks the cycle of violence that drive people to it.
Karl Marx was one person, Hitler was also just one person with a small gathering. Its amazing what people will follow in desperate times. It only takes one radical to tell people what they want to hear to get into power.
Please correct me, but I can't think of one point in history where pacifism worked in ignoring a problem? We seen what pacifism does in the past, it lets the problem get bigger and bigger. And the cycle of violence continues untill someone stops it. If we ignor the issue, fundamentalism will take control one place at a time.
Whadda ya think?
Hail, Hail!!!
You do realize that Hitler was backed by massive international financial interests, and his warchest and industries were heavily funded by American, British, and shadowy international figures, right?
Ford, Rockefeller -- Standard Oil \ IG Farben, IBM, The Bush family via Thyssen, Citibank, and many other large players on the international elite scene were the real players behind Hitler's stupendous rise.
Similarly,
if you want to buy in to the "conspiracy theory",
that would be why Al Qaeda is such a smashing "success".
They have the tacit approval of the US government and its own international controlers. They serve a purpose. They create a shadowy enemy that can be fought in perpetuity, and they can be blamed for anything that intelligence operatives can fabricate a link to. In short, they are the perfect patsy.
:(
If I opened it now would you not understand?
About Hitler, where did you find this information that he was financially backed by Britian and America prior to his election? Just for my own knowledge?
And where did you get your facts that Al Qaeda is a mearly a puppet for the West to use as an excuse?
Or is this just an opinion?
Now, I know that this doesn't work with fundamentalists....but I can't support invading a country to find one man and a few followers (two countries if you count the reason the US invaded Iraq, revision 2). If the US wants to take out their old buddy, they should find a way to do it without creating more terrorists. We're only making things worse.
What's this thread about again?
I don't mean Britain and America proper as governments, i mean as hotbeds of sponsorship via the "elite", their corporations, and their behind the scenes collusion with the reich.
I don't think i could give you any specific source, its all over the net though. Here. That link looks amazingly thorough. I forgot about GE. doh.
Check it out.
Western interests were totally in bed with Hitler.
They used him to help balkanize europe, and also to loot europe and plunder gold. The gold was secretly routed through Switzerland and Swiss banks, and some of it even found its way to the USA.
Conversely, they were doing fair amount of bet hedging, by ensuring that the reich was friendly to their business and to their blood.
You have never heard of things like the IBM-Hollerith connection to the 3rd Reich? There have been whole books written on IBM alone. Without IBM (and there is documented proof of direct contact with IBM New York, not just the German subsidy, as IBM STILL claims today) the holocaust could NEVER have happened. IBM routed the trains, tracked the prisoners, was the reason for the tattoos on the forearms, and controlled ALL movement of jews and undesirables via their punchcard accounting systems -- tailored and designed specificaly to the needs of the Reich.
Blech. Blech. Blech.
As for Al Qaeda, i guess that falls more under "opinion" at this time, since true "facts" are very slow to emerge in this world (it took what, 40 years for JFK to be figured out in large part? and we are still probably only 75% on that) ... but suffice to say that islamic extremism was all but invented by Zbignew Brzezinski in order to defeat the Russians, and that "Al Qaeda" and wahhabist sunni muslims in general have been used as mercenaries for hire by the US government for a LONG time ... and they have been used around the world! Bought and sold.
That is not to say that they don't have their own "real" aims, not to say that they may believe they are acting in their own interests without manipulation, but at the end of the day they are only still alive because the US wants them alive, and because we often buy their services in order to create chaos and conflict. Hell we have been doing it in Iraq for the past few years. It came out in reports that we were paying them to fight and stir up shit when there was that lull a few years ago ('04-'05 or so) and then when shit got too hot ... we started paying them not to fight. incredible shit, i tell ya.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Got to love these 19th century thinkers. Oh by the way, he died in 1834 and his theory is supported by the theory of evolution. Are you familiar with it?
Populations grow exponentially (1, 2, 4, 16...) while ressources grow arithmetically (1, 2, 3, 4...), hence the problem between population growth and their ressources.
Malthus has sort of a point, cynical as it is, however he didn't really take into account the technological growth, and new forms of organizing society.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Seriously though, the point that unlimited growth cannot continue in a limited environment is still relevant. Whether the population at some point balances out naturally or through strong measures, or we colonize space, it's pretty obvious that at some point the growth must be checked. And that doesnt mean supporting genocide or anything, which some people prefer to interpret it as.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
I'd say 35 million dead Africans is a pretty "good" start even for such a high-risk, high cost "program", wouldn't you?
You think the elite are concerned at all about the financial pains of 3rd world governments? They love it. It means guaranteed subservience and ultimately failure to progress in the 21st century, and mass starvation.
Aside from that, AIDS is a huge economic BOON to the pharmaceutical corporations (owned by the elite) that contract with these governments and with the US government aid and NGO aid agencies to deliver "relief" and treatment to the affected regions.
And again, how is MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of dead Africans labeled "uneffective" as a standard of genocide by you?
Malthus was a pretty sick fuck. And the views being espoused in Chapter 3 by Smith and Malthus (that you are talking about here) are beyond simple Darwinian explanation of a function of nature. They are blanket SUGGESTIONS that man begin exterminating or "helping in to the grave" his fellow man by deceitful means of genocide. You may want to reread the passage. The quotes are pretty fucked up!
And now.
Chapter FOUR.
GREAT STUFF HERE.
If I opened it now would you not understand?