show me an unbiased source about religion. If you think that this movie is unbiased and is exactly right, I'd say you're just as guilty for not looking things up as the person who feels manipulated by it... or you can just accept what sounds nice to you and take as lies everything that doesn't mesh with your not so rosey view of things
The responses to this movie are kind of interesting. The people who are religious, disagree with the movie (myself included) and the people who aren't religious or have turned away from religion herald it as if it were gospel truth. So don't we all just look for what re-inforces our view, esp on a subject such as religion?
First, the part of the film discussing religeon isn't even on the same plane of importance as the rest of it, concerning the world bank and all of it's ramifications---that is a pressing matter RIGHT NOW, today, that is affecting everyones lives on the face of the planet... so please don't simply dismiss the other 80 or so minutes based on the fact that you were turned off by the first portion of it...
Second... You see, the thing about research is, you need to do it for yourself... everyone on the internet is always saying 'show me this show me that' to prove what someone else is saying, and they will sit back and wait for that peron to produce a source---but i'm not going to do your homework for you... i could site you any number of sources, and you would just write them off as biased or inadequate or whatever else... i've done my research, i don't need to convince myself of anything... if you have doubts in your mind, if you feel compelled to seek out the truth, than you will take the time to do the research and come to your own conclusions...
and that, ultimately is what the film is about... it even says on the statement or sources or one of those pages that is linked at the bottom of the page NOT TO TAKE WHAT THEY SAY AS TRUTH EITHER---- to look it up (and that means beyond what google will tell you) and find out for yourself...
honestly, i don't care if you arrive at a different conclusion that i do... what i care about is that you at least think about it and read about it and actively pursue information so that you can come to your own conclusions...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Yes it is biased, but it uses actual histoical facts and reason for its conclusions.
Religion will always be devoid of fact and reason to prove its existence.
Smellydude,
I'm confused as to what you mean here:
Religion's existence can be proven; there are at least 100 churches in my rural Kentucky county alone. They are pretty religious, most of them. So I say the existence of religion is easy to prove.
Perhaps you mean something else; do you mean to say the specific beliefs of religion are "devoid of fact and reason to prove its existence", such as the ressurection? If so, are you saying evidence points to the contrary, say, of the claims of the gospel? What about reason; how would reason come into play in proving the existence of religion? Is it unreasonable to be religous? Irrational? Unjustified? I don't know if reason can prove, say, Hannibal crossing the Alps. Please explain...
Aaron
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
First, the part of the film discussing religeon isn't even on the same plane of importance as the rest of it, concerning the world bank and all of it's ramifications---that is a pressing matter RIGHT NOW, today, that is affecting everyones lives on the face of the planet... so please don't simply dismiss the other 80 or so minutes based on the fact that you were turned off by the first portion of it...
Second... You see, the thing about research is, you need to do it for yourself... everyone on the internet is always saying 'show me this show me that' to prove what someone else is saying, and they will sit back and wait for that peron to produce a source---but i'm not going to do your homework for you... i could site you any number of sources, and you would just write them off as biased or inadequate or whatever else... i've done my research, i don't need to convince myself of anything... if you have doubts in your mind, if you feel compelled to seek out the truth, than you will take the time to do the research and come to your own conclusions...
and that, ultimately is what the film is about... it even says on the statement or sources or one of those pages that is linked at the bottom of the page NOT TO TAKE WHAT THEY SAY AS TRUTH EITHER---- to look it up (and that means beyond what google will tell you) and find out for yourself...
honestly, i don't care if you arrive at a different conclusion that i do... what i care about is that you at least think about it and read about it and actively pursue information so that you can come to your own conclusions...
Yes, I do that is the essence behind the movie. If you care or are concerned enough you'll get out there and find out what is what or you can sit back and do nothing. I read books, researched items before the movie and I've done more and will continue to do more since then.
It comes to knowing for yourself and if it finds you inner peace in doing so then so be it.
Peace
Earle
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Smellydude,
I'm confused as to what you mean here:
Religion's existence can be proven; there are at least 100 churches in my rural Kentucky county alone. They are pretty religious, most of them. So I say the existence of religion is easy to prove.
Perhaps you mean something else; do you mean to say the specific beliefs of religion are "devoid of fact and reason to prove its existence", such as the ressurection? If so, are you saying evidence points to the contrary, say, of the claims of the gospel? What about reason; how would reason come into play in proving the existence of religion? Is it unreasonable to be religous? Irrational? Unjustified? I don't know if reason can prove, say, Hannibal crossing the Alps. Please explain...
yes you do what?.. i don't understand what you're trying to say...
in my post that you quoted all i was trying to say what that whoever wants an "unbiased source" or whatever, needs to seek that out for his/herself... everyone needs to try to change their own minds...
i am concerned enough and i do know what's what...
i don't even know which side of this arguement you're on...
Yes, I do that is the essence behind the movie. If you care or are concerned enough you'll get out there and find out what is what or you can sit back and do nothing. I read books, researched items before the movie and I've done more and will continue to do more since then.
It comes to knowing for yourself and if it finds you inner peace in doing so then so be it.
The first part is full of convenient approximations so it doesn't help boost the credibility of the other parts.
The questions really are interesting though, and it made me think (a lot) which is a good thing and which is more than most movies can say.
I'd like to know this however :
I'll agree that lies and self attacks were perpetrated to enter ww1, ww2 and vietnam. All of these happened off the mainland and targeted military while 9/11 targeted civilians and happened on the mainland. Why choose a radically different strategy?
Second... You see, the thing about research is, you need to do it for yourself... everyone on the internet is always saying 'show me this show me that' to prove what someone else is saying, and they will sit back and wait for that peron to produce a source---but i'm not going to do your homework for you... i could site you any number of sources, and you would just write them off as biased or inadequate or whatever else... i've done my research, i don't need to convince myself of anything... if you have doubts in your mind, if you feel compelled to seek out the truth, than you will take the time to do the research and come to your own conclusions...
thanks for the enlightening response in re: to research :rolleyes: I've done my research as well, and as with a lot of things that can be researched people arrive at different conclusions. I don't want you to do my homework for me, I don't recall asking you to.
and that, ultimately is what the film is about... it even says on the statement or sources or one of those pages that is linked at the bottom of the page NOT TO TAKE WHAT THEY SAY AS TRUTH EITHER---- to look it up (and that means beyond what google will tell you) and find out for yourself...
honestly, i don't care if you arrive at a different conclusion that i do... what i care about is that you at least think about it and read about it and actively pursue information so that you can come to your own conclusions...
They may say that at the bottom of their sources page; but there sure are a lot of repsonses on here (keeping to my original post) that seem to just rally around their take home point, on religion, b/c the person agrees with the movies position. And use the movies opinion to back up their claims as truth.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
The first part is full of convenient approximations so it doesn't help boost the credibility of the other parts.
The questions really are interesting though, and it made me think (a lot) which is a good thing and which is more than most movies can say.
I'd like to know this however :
I'll agree that lies and self attacks were perpetrated to enter ww1, ww2 and vietnam. All of these happened off the mainland and targeted military while 9/11 targeted civilians and happened on the mainland. Why choose a radically different strategy?
1. What are the "convenient approximations" you speak of?
2. There are two reasons i can think of, as to why they may have "shifted strategies" regarding targets in 911
a. The American people were so numb and brainwashed on TV by the time 911 came around, that killing a couple dozen Army enlisted would potentially not raise enough fear or desire to go to war in the American people. The USS Cole didn't rasie enough eye brows, so maybe they just went bigger and scarier.
b. More "importantly", the killing of a large number of civilians would insite FAR MORE fear, rage and vengance in the public sentiment SPECIFICALY due to the civilian nature of the targets. It would directly allow the administration to begin a war against terror ... because civilians were the target ... this would theoreticaly (and so far, actually) alow them to continue a war INDEFINATELY with NO REAL ENEMY listed other than some phantom network of shadowy evil doeers ...
... oh ... and a country (Iraq) that was innocent on every fucking count, but which is now up to nearly A MILLION CIVILIAN FATALITIES itself ... (that's an estimated nearly 700,000 deaths caused by TOTAL violent actions essentially created by the lawlessness and violent environment which the U.S agressor CREATED) ...
so that could be some reasonsing for you.
:(
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Very interesting watch, don't have time to comment more right now, see it for yourself.
Also might be interesting for some:
De IJzeren Driehoek (Exposed: The Carlyle Group) by VPRO Dutch television High-speed internet connection. Note: The first minute and fortyseven seconds of this program is broadcast in Dutch, The remainder is in English.
People need to open their eyes and think instead of just chewing what's handed down to them and swallowing it.
You won't hear about the reality of it on TV, newspapers, magazines and radio. It will be a rare occurrence if you do.
Secrecy and propaganda is their weapon.
The internet is the last frontier of expression that is not immediately controlled by corporate and political agenda. However they are trying like mad to clamp it down. Look at China.
Half of the oil consumption in the US is used up by the military. That should fire off a few alarm bells and pretty much tell you what's up right there.
If it doesn't...you may in fact be a lost cause. My suggestion to those individuals would be to refrain from providing suggestion and criticism to others that are trying to uncover the truth and ultimately help you and everyone else.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
People need to open their eyes and think instead of just chewing what's handed down to them and swallowing it.
You won't hear about the reality of it on TV, newspapers, magazines and radio. It will be a rare occurrence if you do.
Secrecy and propaganda is their weapon.
The internet is the last frontier of expression that is not immediately controlled by corporate and political agenda. However they are trying like mad to clamp it down. Look at China.
Half of the oil consumption in the US is used up by the military. That should fire off a few alarm bells and pretty much tell you what's up right there.
If it doesn't...you may in fact be a lost cause. My suggestion to those individuals would be to refrain from providing suggestion and criticism to others that are trying to uncover the truth and ultimately help you and everyone else.
I see what you are saying and I do question everything I here. An example being that I have to question the statement of half the oil consumption in the US being used by the military. The US consumes about 20 million barrels of oil a day. I just can't imagine the military using 10 million barrels a day.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
...I no longer promote, condone or respect anyone saying anything bad about anyone else. That in itself is anti humanity and defies logic as a positive means towards accomplishing anything...
I see what you are saying and I do question everything I here. An example being that I have to question the statement of half the oil consumption in the US being used by the military. The US consumes about 20 million barrels of oil a day. I just can't imagine the military using 10 million barrels a day.
I am quoting Barrie Zwicker who has been intensely studying it and has devoted his life to knowing things like this for the past 5 1/2 years.
With all the bases around the world, and a war raging, I imagine it does eventually add up to a substantial number. Even 30% would be insane really.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
With all the bases around the world, and a war raging, I imagine it does eventually add up to a substantial number. Even 30% would be insane really.
You are right, even if it is 30 percent or even 20 percent it is insane when you think about how large these numbers are.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
When you realize you are being affected negatively the game changes. I'm no chump, so good luck with your accusations. The philosophy I outlined only applies only if your rights are not at risk and no one is attacking you personally.
Yes it's the correct philosophy and I was right to say it, but you can see very much a pipe dream in realty as you are pointing out.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
You are right, even if it is 30 percent or even 20 percent it is insane when you think about how large these numbers are.
He may have misquoted the actual amount as it was in a person to person interview rather than than written word. Thanks for being aware and pointing that out. 50% does seem hard to believe now that I think about it. I'll try to email him about it and ask him how he gets to that amount.
edit:
It wasn't all that easy, but I just got his personal email address and home phone number:
Home/writing studio voice: (416) 651-5588
E-mail: bwz@rogers.com
I'll post his reply
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I've done some thinking and I'm not buying the whole US is evil thing. I think it's misguided to think that way.
Not only that. I feel like a shit for participating in it.
I don't think it's accurate or responsible to promote information that says America or anyone for that matter is evil or bad. It's wrong. It needs to stop, and right now.
I no longer promote, condone or respect anyone saying anything bad about anyone else. That in itself is anti humanity and defies logic as a positive means towards accomplishing anything.
Brilliant, Roland. I totally applaud you! You hit the nail on the head with the "anti-humanity logic-defying" part.
People who defy logic, go against evolutionary principles, and promote anti-humanity stances with judgment and blame and in doing so create negativity and further harm are usually oblivious to the fact that they are part of the problem, rather than part of the solution.
Brilliant, Roland. I totally applaud you! You hit the nail on the head with the "anti-humanity logic-defying" part.
People who defy logic, go against evolutionary principles, and promote anti-humanity stances with judgment and blame and in doing so create negativity and further harm are usually oblivious to the fact that they are part of the problem, rather than part of the solution.
I agree!
I'll be the first to admit I'm a hypocrite.
I want to feel that way all the time. I know this is the right way to be, and how everyone should be towards each other. I posted that after a weekend of deep thought, meditation, and clarity. It was accurate, honest, and a wonderful self realization. I put it out there with hopes of starting a mini revolution in that direction so to speak.
My problem is I can't be an activist when I confine myself to not speaking out against injustices. I suppose it is true...in life sometimes you pick the lesser of the two evils and follow what you believe to be right.
Very nice to hear from you again btw.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
When you realize you are being affected negatively the game changes. I'm no chump, so good luck with your accusations. The philosophy I outlined only applies only if your rights are not at risk and no one is attacking you personally.
Yes it's the correct philosophy and I was right to say it, but you can see very much a pipe dream in realty as you are pointing out.
but a few days after you made that comment you started a thread called "michael moore is a fraud!!" then say well, YOU don't think he is a fraud, but alex jones does....you said you wouldn't condone that behavior or respect anyone who did but you seem to repspect alex jones a whole lot....
not trying to get on to you, just pointing it out that alex jones acts exactly that way.
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
The concept of "hypocrite" is an illusion. We can contradict ourselves in reasoning and logic. And that is called "hypocritical". And yet human beings are filled with contradictions, and opposing aspects. It's called being real, normal and human. We are human beings, with much inner diversity. We are not logical thought processes, even though we can utilize logic for our greater good.
I want to feel that way all the time. I know this is the right way to be, and how everyone should be towards each other. I posted that after a weekend of deep thought, meditation, and clarity. It was accurate, honest, and a wonderful self realization. I put it out there with hopes of starting a mini revolution in that direction so to speak.
This is how it works. When we begin to conceive of a better way, it takes much growth and evolution to integrate that new way into how we are. We see the bigger better way and we move in that direction. The first thing that happens is all our contradictions start arising. When this happens, we have ample opportunity to start resolving our own contradictions into a higher, more evolutionary sound order. The way we do this is by owning our contradictions, and being willing to change within, letting go of what does not serve the higher order, in order to make change without.
My problem is I can't be an activist when I confine myself to not speaking out against injustices. I suppose it is true...in life sometimes you pick the lesser of the two evils and follow what you believe to be right.
Speaking out against injustices is not a problem. Speaking out in problematic, judgmental, blaming, immature ways is. Again, the difference between doing it in a healthy way and an unhealthy one is all about our own inner life-stage problems, completely irrespective of what we see outside of us. Those who address injustice in productive, helpful ways, who are not part of the problem, but rather part of the solution don't excuse and justify doing what is unjustifiable, immature, etc or in your terms being anti-humanity, or illogical. They evolutionarily adapt and resolve their own inner issues for the sake of the bigger picture. By knowing how to be the change, we create change that ripples outward.
Very nice to hear from you again btw.
Yeah, it's nice to talk to you again! Don't be an email stranger, dude!
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
but a few days after you made that comment you started a thread called "michael moore is a fraud!!" then say well, YOU don't think he is a fraud, but alex jones does....you said you wouldn't condone that behavior or respect anyone who did but you seem to repspect alex jones a whole lot....
not trying to get on to you, just pointing it out that alex jones acts exactly that way.
I posted a thread along the lines that Alex Jones thinks/calls Michale Moore a fraud. At no point did I ever say I agreed with him and think MM is a fraud. It was implied (rather quickly) by those offended. I did say that I don't agree with Alex Jones and don't think MM is a fraud though. It's a grey line, and I did say that I agreed with Alex Jones philosophies on a few issues....namely the canary in the coal mine analogy. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough.
I'm not sure what I did questionable there. I feel I just posted a controversial accusation as a 3rd party to spark a discussion that's all.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I posted a thread along the lines that Alex Jones thinks/calls Michale Moore a fraud. At no point did I ever say I agreed with him and think MM is a fraud. It was implied (rather quickly) by those offended. I did say that I don't agree with Alex Jones and don't think MM is a fraud though. It's a grey line, and I did say that I agreed with Alex Jones philosophies on a few issues....namely the canary in the coal mine analogy. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough.
I'm not sure what I did questionable there. I feel I just posted a controversial accusation to spark a discussion that's all.
You didn't do anything questionable. I think Kabong's referring to your post that baraka and angelica quoted earlier (and I agree with it wholeheartedly myself) is in direct contrast with the way Alex Jones carries himself. I, personally, think Alex Jones is part of the problem not the solution...but that's just me. But I can also see how you can agree and share some of his points without having to resort to the bleak, negativity ridden methods Jones uses...which I think you do for the most part. I think it's all about being aware of these things and speaking out but at the same time, not letting the negativity consume you and affect how you feel about life. Your life is your own. If we get all upset, angry constantly, depressed, apathetic, etc....then they already have us in those prison camps or whatever.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Good, honest, peaceful, caring people do not seek ultimate control over others, over other countries, and over continents (North American Union anyone?)...over the world as via the new world order. They don't choose to conduct themselves via displays of military might, legal intimidation, and continual erosion of personal rights.
Corrupt individuals seek out and actively do though.
How come the focus on world leader communications and peace talks has taken a back seat to war for so long now?
I can't see how it can get any more obvious than that to those who doubt what I say.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
You didn't do anything questionable. I think Kabong's referring to your post that baraka and angelica quoted earlier (and I agree with it wholeheartedly myself) is in direct contrast with the way Alex Jones carries himself. I, personally, think Alex Jones is part of the problem not the solution...but that's just me. But I can also see how you can agree and share some of his points without having to resort to the bleak, negativity ridden methods Jones uses...which I think you do for the most part. I think it's all about being aware of these things and speaking out but at the same time, not letting the negativity consume you and affect how you feel about life. Your life is your own. If we get all upset, angry constantly, depressed, apathetic, etc....then they already have us in those prison camps or whatever.
Alex is fighting back with equal force applied. He is serving it right back to them. If you watch enough of him at an armchairs distance in objectivity, one can begin to understand why he is the way he is.
You have to understand him first to see his ways, and how to interpret what, and why, he says what he says.
To be fair it has consumed his life. That is his calling, and he is fulfilling his obligation to cutting through the endless layers of fog, and deceit showered upon the public by a mind controlling media.
At the very end of every rope in a tug of war is a heavyweight...an extreme. I believe he is necessary exactly how he is.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I posted a thread along the lines that Alex Jones thinks/calls Michale Moore a fraud. At no point did I ever say I agreed with him and think MM is a fraud. It was implied (rather quickly) by those offended. I did say that I don't agree with Alex Jones and don't think MM is a fraud though. It's a grey line, and I did say that I agreed with Alex Jones philosophies on a few issues....namely the canary in the coal mine analogy. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough.
I'm not sure what I did questionable there. I feel I just posted a controversial accusation as a 3rd party to spark a discussion that's all.
yes, but he claimed michael moore is a fraud simply b/c he didn't put things in farenheit 911 that alex thought should go...and for that he is a fraud and working for the system!
that is negativity. he did what he does a lot, he goes in w/ his mind made up rather than honestly wanting to ask questions, they way he's so aggressive and calls names....
maybe he needs to be this way but it is still negativity. if i wanted to know why he didn't put those things in his film i think the better way would be to just ask...nicely, not following him and filming him while he eats screaming he's a fraud
all i was saying was you did in a way condone negativity, and you obviously respect alex jones so you also respect it in a way...
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Part I
Never knew exactly what pagan stories the bible integrated and that the sun rose higher again on 25th december. In regards to money, what the Vatican holds in gold, art and real estate is indeed amazing and paid for by the people. Only thing I didn't agree with is that EVERY religion is out to make a profit or keep the people in place / ignorant.
Part II
Doesn't this sum up what Loose Change already stated. It's hard to believe that explosives where used to bring these buildings down, but the building next to the WTC makes it more plausible, not hit by a plain, no huge fires and went down like a house of cards. Than the secrecy surrounding it all, the molten steel, the surveillance tape of the Pentagon and the living hijackers.. No debris of any of the planes.. The passport / fingerprints.. And the guy from the 9/11 report, the Bin Ladens in the US.. The oil money.. All together it stinks.
Part III
Who controls and regulates the National Bank? It's a scary idea that these people would have any other agenda than keeping the market healthy, but than again, war is profitable and the people behind the curtains and their false flag operations are could explain very well why all these wars are started / entered, without public support they can't get much done..
I just hope the truth will be public one day (soon) and not everything in this documentary is true, but that there are just some elements that can be removed.
Loved it ending with a great Bill Hicks quote and the pictures of heroes. "The world is like a ride at an amusement park. And when you choose to go on it, you think it's real because that's how powerful our minds are. And the ride goes up and down and round and round. It has thrills and chills and it's very brightly coloured and it's very loud and it's fun, for a while. Some people have been on the ride for a long time, and they begin to question: Is this real, or is this just a ride? And other people have remembered, and hey come back to us, they say, "Hey – don't worry, don't be afraid ever, because this is just a ride." And we … kill those people. "Shut him up. We have a lot invested in this ride. Shut him up. Look at my furrows of worry. Look at my big bank account and my family. This just has to be real." It's just a ride. But we always kill those good guys who try and tell us that, you ever notice that? And let the demons run amok. But it doesn't matter, because – it's just a ride. And we can change it anytime we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings and money. A choice, right now, between fear and love. The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your doors, buy guns, close yourself off. The eyes of love instead see all of us as one. Here's what we can do to change the world, right now, to a better ride. Take all that money we spend on weapons and defenses each year and instead spend it feeding and clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would pay for many times over, not one human being excluded, and we could explore space, together, both inner and outer, forever, in peace."
Comments
Religion will always be devoid of fact and reason to prove its existence.
and thats the fact, jack
First, the part of the film discussing religeon isn't even on the same plane of importance as the rest of it, concerning the world bank and all of it's ramifications---that is a pressing matter RIGHT NOW, today, that is affecting everyones lives on the face of the planet... so please don't simply dismiss the other 80 or so minutes based on the fact that you were turned off by the first portion of it...
Second... You see, the thing about research is, you need to do it for yourself... everyone on the internet is always saying 'show me this show me that' to prove what someone else is saying, and they will sit back and wait for that peron to produce a source---but i'm not going to do your homework for you... i could site you any number of sources, and you would just write them off as biased or inadequate or whatever else... i've done my research, i don't need to convince myself of anything... if you have doubts in your mind, if you feel compelled to seek out the truth, than you will take the time to do the research and come to your own conclusions...
and that, ultimately is what the film is about... it even says on the statement or sources or one of those pages that is linked at the bottom of the page NOT TO TAKE WHAT THEY SAY AS TRUTH EITHER---- to look it up (and that means beyond what google will tell you) and find out for yourself...
honestly, i don't care if you arrive at a different conclusion that i do... what i care about is that you at least think about it and read about it and actively pursue information so that you can come to your own conclusions...
www.zeitgeistmovie.com
SiGN THiS PETiTiON TO STOP THE REAL ID ACT!...
http://www.petitiononline.com/antiID/petition.html
Only the most tanned...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Smellydude,
I'm confused as to what you mean here:
Religion's existence can be proven; there are at least 100 churches in my rural Kentucky county alone. They are pretty religious, most of them. So I say the existence of religion is easy to prove.
Perhaps you mean something else; do you mean to say the specific beliefs of religion are "devoid of fact and reason to prove its existence", such as the ressurection? If so, are you saying evidence points to the contrary, say, of the claims of the gospel? What about reason; how would reason come into play in proving the existence of religion? Is it unreasonable to be religous? Irrational? Unjustified? I don't know if reason can prove, say, Hannibal crossing the Alps. Please explain...
Aaron
Yes, I do that is the essence behind the movie. If you care or are concerned enough you'll get out there and find out what is what or you can sit back and do nothing. I read books, researched items before the movie and I've done more and will continue to do more since then.
It comes to knowing for yourself and if it finds you inner peace in doing so then so be it.
Peace
Earle
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
obviously...
sorry about the semantics
yes you do what?.. i don't understand what you're trying to say...
in my post that you quoted all i was trying to say what that whoever wants an "unbiased source" or whatever, needs to seek that out for his/herself... everyone needs to try to change their own minds...
i am concerned enough and i do know what's what...
i don't even know which side of this arguement you're on...
www.zeitgeistmovie.com
SiGN THiS PETiTiON TO STOP THE REAL ID ACT!...
http://www.petitiononline.com/antiID/petition.html
The questions really are interesting though, and it made me think (a lot) which is a good thing and which is more than most movies can say.
I'd like to know this however :
I'll agree that lies and self attacks were perpetrated to enter ww1, ww2 and vietnam. All of these happened off the mainland and targeted military while 9/11 targeted civilians and happened on the mainland. Why choose a radically different strategy?
They may say that at the bottom of their sources page; but there sure are a lot of repsonses on here (keeping to my original post) that seem to just rally around their take home point, on religion, b/c the person agrees with the movies position. And use the movies opinion to back up their claims as truth.
1. What are the "convenient approximations" you speak of?
2. There are two reasons i can think of, as to why they may have "shifted strategies" regarding targets in 911
a. The American people were so numb and brainwashed on TV by the time 911 came around, that killing a couple dozen Army enlisted would potentially not raise enough fear or desire to go to war in the American people. The USS Cole didn't rasie enough eye brows, so maybe they just went bigger and scarier.
b. More "importantly", the killing of a large number of civilians would insite FAR MORE fear, rage and vengance in the public sentiment SPECIFICALY due to the civilian nature of the targets. It would directly allow the administration to begin a war against terror ... because civilians were the target ... this would theoreticaly (and so far, actually) alow them to continue a war INDEFINATELY with NO REAL ENEMY listed other than some phantom network of shadowy evil doeers ...
... oh ... and a country (Iraq) that was innocent on every fucking count, but which is now up to nearly A MILLION CIVILIAN FATALITIES itself ... (that's an estimated nearly 700,000 deaths caused by TOTAL violent actions essentially created by the lawlessness and violent environment which the U.S agressor CREATED) ...
so that could be some reasonsing for you.
:(
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Also might be interesting for some:
De IJzeren Driehoek (Exposed: The Carlyle Group) by VPRO Dutch television High-speed internet connection. Note: The first minute and fortyseven seconds of this program is broadcast in Dutch, The remainder is in English.
You won't hear about the reality of it on TV, newspapers, magazines and radio. It will be a rare occurrence if you do.
Secrecy and propaganda is their weapon.
The internet is the last frontier of expression that is not immediately controlled by corporate and political agenda. However they are trying like mad to clamp it down. Look at China.
Half of the oil consumption in the US is used up by the military. That should fire off a few alarm bells and pretty much tell you what's up right there.
If it doesn't...you may in fact be a lost cause. My suggestion to those individuals would be to refrain from providing suggestion and criticism to others that are trying to uncover the truth and ultimately help you and everyone else.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
I see what you are saying and I do question everything I here. An example being that I have to question the statement of half the oil consumption in the US being used by the military. The US consumes about 20 million barrels of oil a day. I just can't imagine the military using 10 million barrels a day.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
ROFL! Political Correctness at it's FINEST!
I am quoting Barrie Zwicker who has been intensely studying it and has devoted his life to knowing things like this for the past 5 1/2 years.
However, here's the first couple links that comes up in google: http://www.energybulletin.net/13199.html
http://karbuz.blogspot.com/2007/03/us-military-oil-consumption-abroad.html
With all the bases around the world, and a war raging, I imagine it does eventually add up to a substantial number. Even 30% would be insane really.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
You are right, even if it is 30 percent or even 20 percent it is insane when you think about how large these numbers are.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
When you realize you are being affected negatively the game changes. I'm no chump, so good luck with your accusations. The philosophy I outlined only applies only if your rights are not at risk and no one is attacking you personally.
Yes it's the correct philosophy and I was right to say it, but you can see very much a pipe dream in realty as you are pointing out.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
He may have misquoted the actual amount as it was in a person to person interview rather than than written word. Thanks for being aware and pointing that out. 50% does seem hard to believe now that I think about it. I'll try to email him about it and ask him how he gets to that amount.
edit:
It wasn't all that easy, but I just got his personal email address and home phone number:
Home/writing studio voice: (416) 651-5588
E-mail: bwz@rogers.com
I'll post his reply
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
People who defy logic, go against evolutionary principles, and promote anti-humanity stances with judgment and blame and in doing so create negativity and further harm are usually oblivious to the fact that they are part of the problem, rather than part of the solution.
I agree!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I'll be the first to admit I'm a hypocrite.
I want to feel that way all the time. I know this is the right way to be, and how everyone should be towards each other. I posted that after a weekend of deep thought, meditation, and clarity. It was accurate, honest, and a wonderful self realization. I put it out there with hopes of starting a mini revolution in that direction so to speak.
My problem is I can't be an activist when I confine myself to not speaking out against injustices. I suppose it is true...in life sometimes you pick the lesser of the two evils and follow what you believe to be right.
Very nice to hear from you again btw.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
but a few days after you made that comment you started a thread called "michael moore is a fraud!!" then say well, YOU don't think he is a fraud, but alex jones does....you said you wouldn't condone that behavior or respect anyone who did but you seem to repspect alex jones a whole lot....
not trying to get on to you, just pointing it out that alex jones acts exactly that way.
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
This is how it works. When we begin to conceive of a better way, it takes much growth and evolution to integrate that new way into how we are. We see the bigger better way and we move in that direction. The first thing that happens is all our contradictions start arising. When this happens, we have ample opportunity to start resolving our own contradictions into a higher, more evolutionary sound order. The way we do this is by owning our contradictions, and being willing to change within, letting go of what does not serve the higher order, in order to make change without.
Speaking out against injustices is not a problem. Speaking out in problematic, judgmental, blaming, immature ways is. Again, the difference between doing it in a healthy way and an unhealthy one is all about our own inner life-stage problems, completely irrespective of what we see outside of us. Those who address injustice in productive, helpful ways, who are not part of the problem, but rather part of the solution don't excuse and justify doing what is unjustifiable, immature, etc or in your terms being anti-humanity, or illogical. They evolutionarily adapt and resolve their own inner issues for the sake of the bigger picture. By knowing how to be the change, we create change that ripples outward.
Yeah, it's nice to talk to you again! Don't be an email stranger, dude!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I posted a thread along the lines that Alex Jones thinks/calls Michale Moore a fraud. At no point did I ever say I agreed with him and think MM is a fraud. It was implied (rather quickly) by those offended. I did say that I don't agree with Alex Jones and don't think MM is a fraud though. It's a grey line, and I did say that I agreed with Alex Jones philosophies on a few issues....namely the canary in the coal mine analogy. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough.
I'm not sure what I did questionable there. I feel I just posted a controversial accusation as a 3rd party to spark a discussion that's all.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
You didn't do anything questionable. I think Kabong's referring to your post that baraka and angelica quoted earlier (and I agree with it wholeheartedly myself) is in direct contrast with the way Alex Jones carries himself. I, personally, think Alex Jones is part of the problem not the solution...but that's just me. But I can also see how you can agree and share some of his points without having to resort to the bleak, negativity ridden methods Jones uses...which I think you do for the most part. I think it's all about being aware of these things and speaking out but at the same time, not letting the negativity consume you and affect how you feel about life. Your life is your own. If we get all upset, angry constantly, depressed, apathetic, etc....then they already have us in those prison camps or whatever.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Corrupt individuals seek out and actively do though.
How come the focus on world leader communications and peace talks has taken a back seat to war for so long now?
I can't see how it can get any more obvious than that to those who doubt what I say.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Alex is fighting back with equal force applied. He is serving it right back to them. If you watch enough of him at an armchairs distance in objectivity, one can begin to understand why he is the way he is.
You have to understand him first to see his ways, and how to interpret what, and why, he says what he says.
To be fair it has consumed his life. That is his calling, and he is fulfilling his obligation to cutting through the endless layers of fog, and deceit showered upon the public by a mind controlling media.
At the very end of every rope in a tug of war is a heavyweight...an extreme. I believe he is necessary exactly how he is.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
yes, but he claimed michael moore is a fraud simply b/c he didn't put things in farenheit 911 that alex thought should go...and for that he is a fraud and working for the system!
that is negativity. he did what he does a lot, he goes in w/ his mind made up rather than honestly wanting to ask questions, they way he's so aggressive and calls names....
maybe he needs to be this way but it is still negativity. if i wanted to know why he didn't put those things in his film i think the better way would be to just ask...nicely, not following him and filming him while he eats screaming he's a fraud
all i was saying was you did in a way condone negativity, and you obviously respect alex jones so you also respect it in a way...
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Never knew exactly what pagan stories the bible integrated and that the sun rose higher again on 25th december. In regards to money, what the Vatican holds in gold, art and real estate is indeed amazing and paid for by the people. Only thing I didn't agree with is that EVERY religion is out to make a profit or keep the people in place / ignorant.
Part II
Doesn't this sum up what Loose Change already stated. It's hard to believe that explosives where used to bring these buildings down, but the building next to the WTC makes it more plausible, not hit by a plain, no huge fires and went down like a house of cards. Than the secrecy surrounding it all, the molten steel, the surveillance tape of the Pentagon and the living hijackers.. No debris of any of the planes.. The passport / fingerprints.. And the guy from the 9/11 report, the Bin Ladens in the US.. The oil money.. All together it stinks.
Part III
Who controls and regulates the National Bank? It's a scary idea that these people would have any other agenda than keeping the market healthy, but than again, war is profitable and the people behind the curtains and their false flag operations are could explain very well why all these wars are started / entered, without public support they can't get much done..
I just hope the truth will be public one day (soon) and not everything in this documentary is true, but that there are just some elements that can be removed.
Loved it ending with a great Bill Hicks quote and the pictures of heroes.
"The world is like a ride at an amusement park. And when you choose to go on it, you think it's real because that's how powerful our minds are. And the ride goes up and down and round and round. It has thrills and chills and it's very brightly coloured and it's very loud and it's fun, for a while. Some people have been on the ride for a long time, and they begin to question: Is this real, or is this just a ride? And other people have remembered, and hey come back to us, they say, "Hey – don't worry, don't be afraid ever, because this is just a ride." And we … kill those people. "Shut him up. We have a lot invested in this ride. Shut him up. Look at my furrows of worry. Look at my big bank account and my family. This just has to be real." It's just a ride. But we always kill those good guys who try and tell us that, you ever notice that? And let the demons run amok. But it doesn't matter, because – it's just a ride. And we can change it anytime we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings and money. A choice, right now, between fear and love. The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your doors, buy guns, close yourself off. The eyes of love instead see all of us as one. Here's what we can do to change the world, right now, to a better ride. Take all that money we spend on weapons and defenses each year and instead spend it feeding and clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would pay for many times over, not one human being excluded, and we could explore space, together, both inner and outer, forever, in peace."
Now who is this Alex Jones guy discussed?