Katrina: Two years on...

RainDog

Uncle Leo wrote:

I know this is easy for me to say, since I have a marketable(ish) degree and can move pretty easily, plus my family is not all in NO, but I would tend to think that I would just leave and settle elsewhere. While I may feel some loyalty to my hometown, I would have to get on with life--and have life not be about recovery for the next, oh I don't know, decade.

I have no idea whether this is what is happening--everyone with means getting out. I just think that I would. Start over in, for example, St. Loius or something.

I'm a transplant from the North - so for me, it's not because my family is here, or because I love my job, or because I have roots, so to speak. I'm here because I love this town. It's why I moved here, and it's why I'm staying. My only problem at the moment is with myself - I should be doing more for the recovery.

One of the things about living here right now, especially in my neck of the woods, is that it's gotten real easy to pretend nothing happened. Walk out on to St. Charles? Well, the streetcar isn't running, but everything looks fine. Bus to work downtown, and - at least around my office - things look much as they did before the storm. Head to the French Quarter for a few drinks, talk to tourists and bartenders, and it doesn't seem that much different. Hell, with the French Quarter, I could say it's a lot cleaner. Extend myself beyond my usual circle? Makes me want to cry.

darkcrow

are there any plans to redesign the city? As in builing an intergrating public transport system, better town planning etc?

Truthmonger

In a way, NO has been living on borrowed time - I think most people know that sooner or later it was going to get hit with a major and devastating storm. The gov't, both state and fed. havre known about the possible dangers for decades and have implemented band-aid solutions in the hope that that storm will never come. They were hedging their bets. Well, Katrina was THAT storm.

Pacomc79

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Hey...New Orleans...America says fuck you....deal with it...


chumps...

hurricane bitches..

you lost...haha

?!??!?!

am I wrong?

Yeah I think you are wrong, there are thousands of people who are working every day trying to clean that place up, it's just amazingly vast. People care, all of us here care obviously, there are just a lot of problems and some of which are age old issues coming to roost. It needs Cat 5 standards to be a city that large in that area. Most of the old town is on the high ground, much of the suburbs and neighborhoods are in the low lands, As of today it's going to take until 2010 to rebuild the levee system to pre Katrina/Rita standards (hopefully right this time) and those weren't quite adequate for a hurricane hitting the city. It's miserable to see the devistation especially for people working thier butt off to get thier homes back in neighborhoods that still have so much work to do but at this poing money is committed, it's not really money at this point it's man power and the politicial leadership locally throught nationally obviously ain't great.
It's pretty easy to take shots at everyone and say look no one cares, but I don't think that's the case at all, the governments on various levels are trying, and the Army Corps of Engineers has been working for 2 years but they have to get infrastructure done and dusted before it's really worth sinking more money into the other stuff. It makes more sense to do what the guy in Truthmongers article did, set up shop, let people live rent free as long as they work or are in school let them build thier skills up and then if they want to make a come back do that.

It's heartbreaking to be in the city right now, but it's easy to see the beauty and the appeal of Gentilly and Lakeview underneath the rubble. I don't think it will completely ever come back but in 5 to 10 years people will come back and it will be a lot better. Disasters take time to heal no matter how much money you throw at it. At this point I think physical labor is better than money to send, at the same time, if you care about them go visit. They still have a beautiful town even scarred, they still have some of the best food in the world, and it's still an awesome place to visit and your money will directly help the economy. Americorps and Habitat are all over, I was at Fish Camp with Presbyterian Disaster Assistance in Luling where we worked out of so there are places to go and stay if you would like to work too. They told us it would feel like we weren't making a dent but someones go to do the work and it energizes the locals to see you out there doing work, not to mention they are cool folks and have thier own stories. It takes a team of about 12 people around a week to fully strip a house down to where it can be remediated by borax soda and clorox to be ready to build, then you have to wait on a contractor. There are around 500,000 houses that need to be mucked out so you can see it's a lot of work, just to get that done before any mass building can go on, but people do care, and people are helping it's just a slow process.

The Government will have to redo the water and sewer systems, pumps have to work automatically and be much more efficient than they are now, levees need to be up to cat 5 standards and built to withstand extreme flood pressure levels. MRGO should be filled, 9th Ward should be condemned and turned into a city park, neighborhoods and projects should never have been built in such a dangerous flood area. Wetlands projects to restore the natural storm surge swallowing wetlands have to be begun in earnest. City planning commissions need to ensure all new construction is ready for a 12-15 foot flood..and that's just the physical city part, obviously the people need a little help too.

I have ties to the low country of South Carolina and that culture, I'd never want to see it die because of a hurricane, likewise the city of New Orleans which has such a rich culture and heritage. We all care.

surferdude

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Is that the official consensus or your hypothesis? I don't remember hearing about it in the news...probably the residents haven't either.. I'm guessing.

How long do you think it takes to re-build a city for millions? How long do you expect a person who worked at a plant that was destroyed and is not being rebuilt to stick around?

As much as I love where I live if my home and work places were wiped out I would move immediately.

surferdude

Cosmo wrote:

...
Forget about the City of New Orleans itself... what about the people who were and continue to be displaced?

This is where it's much harder and I don't think there are solutions to satisfy everyone. I think guidelines need to be set up and social workers be given free reign to work within those guidelines. There are so many variables.

The number one question everyone is tip toeing around is: Is it humane to rebuild the lower sections of town?
I've yet to see anyone address this question head on. NO cannot move on until this question is addressed.

What do you do with the elderly who have never lived anywhere but NO and have no home now and no family?
What do you do with people who have moved and started a new life but still own property?
What do you do with people who have nothing but refuse to move where they can start a new life?
Is it humane to rebuild the lower sections of town?

This is why I think it's a 50 year process to rebuild NO. There's a generation of people that have to live there lives before NO is back in anyway near to what it was.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

surferdude wrote:

How long do you think it takes to re-build a city for millions? How long do you expect a person who worked at a plant that was destroyed and is not being rebuilt to stick around?

As much as I love where I live if my home and work places were wiped out I would move immediately.

That depends entirely on how many people are involved in the operation.

Construction crews build and repair things at miraculous speed these days.

Especially in America.

The consensus seems to be not enough effort is being made. Are you saying there is....but somehow it's just different?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Pacomc79 wrote:

Yeah I think you are wrong, there are thousands of people who are working every day trying to clean that place up, it's just amazingly vast. People care, all of us here care obviously, there are just a lot of problems and some of which are age old issues coming to roost. It needs Cat 5 standards to be a city that large in that area. Most of the old town is on the high ground, much of the suburbs and neighborhoods are in the low lands, As of today it's going to take until 2010 to rebuild the levee system to pre Katrina/Rita standards (hopefully right this time) and those weren't quite adequate for a hurricane hitting the city. It's miserable to see the devistation especially for people working thier butt off to get thier homes back in neighborhoods that still have so much work to do but at this poing money is committed, it's not really money at this point it's man power and the politicial leadership locally throught nationally obviously ain't great.
It's pretty easy to take shots at everyone and say look no one cares, but I don't think that's the case at all, the governments on various levels are trying, and the Army Corps of Engineers has been working for 2 years but they have to get infrastructure done and dusted before it's really worth sinking more money into the other stuff. It makes more sense to do what the guy in Truthmongers article did, set up shop, let people live rent free as long as they work or are in school let them build thier skills up and then if they want to make a come back do that.

It's heartbreaking to be in the city right now, but it's easy to see the beauty and the appeal of Gentilly and Lakeview underneath the rubble. I don't think it will completely ever come back but in 5 to 10 years people will come back and it will be a lot better. Disasters take time to heal no matter how much money you throw at it. At this point I think physical labor is better than money to send, at the same time, if you care about them go visit. They still have a beautiful town even scarred, they still have some of the best food in the world, and it's still an awesome place to visit and your money will directly help the economy. Americorps and Habitat are all over, I was at Fish Camp with Presbyterian Disaster Assistance in Luling where we worked out of so there are places to go and stay if you would like to work too. They told us it would feel like we weren't making a dent but someones go to do the work and it energizes the locals to see you out there doing work, not to mention they are cool folks and have thier own stories. It takes a team of about 12 people around a week to fully strip a house down to where it can be remediated by borax soda and clorox to be ready to build, then you have to wait on a contractor. There are around 500,000 houses that need to be mucked out so you can see it's a lot of work, just to get that done before any mass building can go on, but people do care, and people are helping it's just a slow process.

The Government will have to redo the water and sewer systems, pumps have to work automatically and be much more efficient than they are now, levees need to be up to cat 5 standards and built to withstand extreme flood pressure levels. MRGO should be filled, 9th Ward should be condemned and turned into a city park, neighborhoods and projects should never have been built in such a dangerous flood area. Wetlands projects to restore the natural storm surge swallowing wetlands have to be begun in earnest. City planning commissions need to ensure all new construction is ready for a 12-15 foot flood..and that's just the physical city part, obviously the people need a little help too.

I have ties to the low country of South Carolina and that culture, I'd never want to see it die because of a hurricane, likewise the city of New Orleans which has such a rich culture and heritage. We all care.

It would seem the place is inhabitable then.

Truthmonger

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Construction crews build and repair things at miraculous speed these days.

This is true. Remember when LA had the earthquake ? They rebuilt significant portions of the highway infrastructure in 6 weeks. (6 weeks !!). Hmm, was there a conscious gov't effort in LA that is lacking in NO ??

DaytimeDilemma

RainDog wrote:

One of the things about living here right now, especially in my neck of the woods, is that it's gotten real easy to pretend nothing happened. Walk out on to St. Charles? Well, the streetcar isn't running, but everything looks fine. Bus to work downtown, and - at least around my office - things look much as they did before the storm. Head to the French Quarter for a few drinks, talk to tourists and bartenders, and it doesn't seem that much different. Hell, with the French Quarter, I could say it's a lot cleaner. Extend myself beyond my usual circle? Makes me want to cry.

Exactly. I live Uptown and work in the Quarter. I don't really travel outside that area because this is where the city is normal. Anywhere else and it's still August 30, 2005.

even flow?

keeponrockin wrote:

Howabout that $50 Billion George wanted for the war?

That couldn't hurt.

I was thinking the whole cost of the war. You know toss in the fact that the soldiers would only have to fight the heat while helping to rebuild a piece of their own country. But hey, who am I to say what Uncle Sam should and shouldn't spend the money on.

rrivers

surferdude wrote:

How long do you think it takes to re-build a city for millions? How long do you expect a person who worked at a plant that was destroyed and is not being rebuilt to stick around?

As much as I love where I live if my home and work places were wiped out I would move immediately.

I will reiterate what was said, that generations and generations of people lived there. It is a unique special place with a lot of problems but, having grown up there, I can say it is hard to leave.

Everyone should read "1 Dead in Attic" by Chris Rose.

binauralsounds

And the dumb arse is still the mayor. Hey.. BUSES THAT WAY>>>

RainDog

binauralsounds wrote:

And the dumb arse is still the mayor. Hey.. BUSES THAT WAY>>>

What can I say. Nagin was pretty good durning his first term, but he's no wartime consiglieri.

demidelvalle

all of you are saying that its not worth the time and the effort, and that new orleans isnt important enough and that we should all just leave... and forget new orelans... well first id like to see all of you do that... i was born and raised in chalmette which is right outside of new orleans, where the hurricane really hit... like past the 9th ward.. new orleans didnt get it half as bad... yall have to understand that most of the city is back... its the surrounding areas that need alot of work.. but there are so many more things to that then just governement money... i knwo of several cases where people didnt have the money because of insurance issues and the inurance company not paying them... but believe it or not there is alot more than yall think... i live in an area that got water up to the secodn floor.... but we're still back... its hard cause they havent fixed our flood issues which makes getting insurance harder and in general all of your security isnt there... and thats why some people havent started rebuilding... if theyd make a decision to do something with that so many more people would be back... adn we really wouldnt have flooded half as bad had they shut down the MRGO... or better yet i dont know if you saw the stories in the levees on the side of town that flooded, but they werent built right... one side of the levee was built in the ground farhter than the other, the ones built correctly worked perfect, that part of the city wasnt flooded, on the other hand the levees built wrong obviously did not work...

yall are saying that yall feel liek we should jsut leave it al behind.. but we cant... i mean i could easily leave my house and my material posessions, but i know i have memories in my town... id never want to leave it... my whole family is here, all of my friends, basically my entire life, and if youre from new orleans, and for me half and half between new orleans and a smaller area outside of it... you cant jsut leave, youre used to one way of living, and i promise you theres no place we can go and actually feel the same... theres no place liek new orleans and such...

and yall say we should get rid of it because we cant protect it, but truthfully we've been hit by two big hurricanes in the past 100 years, and ours made a bigger impact only because of the weaker system we have, but that system can be fixed!! florida on the other hand is constantly being hit, yet there systems are strong enough? if our devastation had hit florida rather than us, i can guarantee you that people wouldnt say jsut get rid of it.


and yes we are marshes and wetlands, but theres so much more to it than just the "nasty swamp" picture yall think of. peopel make a livign off that swampy land. the shrimp, crabs, and fish yall probably eat often comes from us. and if we allow the wetlands in lousiana to deteriorate without any prevention, then that jsut makes it quicker for it to stretch and eventually louisiana will turn into swamps and other gulf states, adn sooner or later that will affect yall up north.

theres jsut so much culture here. sure we ahve problems, crime, of course, political issues, always, but so do other states. new york has crime rates taht are jsut off the charts, but peopel dont jsut tell them "hey get out of there and forget abotu that state" so why do it to us?

so many peopel have been displaced by this devastation, but if yall only knew the hope that these peopel have. it doesnt allways show because it does get hard at times, and i know all of us wonder why we even came back, but then that when we realize how much we love it and why taking the risk by staying is worth it.

there are so many ways to help us, the government can get the money. if they have the money to continue this war, taht really is jsut pride issue, and they have the money to re build other countries, then they have the money to re build their own lands, i can tell you most peopel love our city whether they come from ehre of came here at a later age.

my dad came to the US from Cuba, and i can tell you he loves living here more than anything. its jsut such a homely place, and the feeling of teh community and everything is jsut amazing. honestly if any of you would come down here adn see everything youll see there is a ton of progress, although there is alot of work, we are getting there.

thigns in the city are almost completely back, with a few exceptions, liek our st charles streetcars, the flea market isnt as big yet, and some of the shops.. but liek i said we are getting tehre, and if yall would really get the whole picture before making all of these coments i have a feeling yall will really change your opinions.

i knwo this was long, but you have to understand i was researching MRGO for a project, and i came upon yalls forum, and many of yalls comments jsut angered me so much, i jsut needed to respond, adn tell you the story as a person who witnessed it first hand in one of the areas who got some of the worst of the storm.

rrivers

demidvalle, great first post! I grew up in Gretna and agree 1000%! Everything you said is dead on!

I am utterly amazed by anyone who can say that everyone who lives there should just move and New Orleans is not worth rebuilding. I would never even think that about a city that I saw a tragedy like that happen in. When the earthquakes happened in SF in 89, I didn't think, "Those people are stupid for living on a faultline." People who grew up in New Orleans (I include the surrounding area in this) feel a connection to the place and each other that is rare and valuable.

Again, everyone should read "1 Dead in Attic" by Chris Rose.

He sums up what I was trying to say nicely here:

http://www.katrina-la.net/letter-to-america.php

jlew24asu

rrivers wrote:

demidvalle, great first post! I grew up in Gretna and agree 1000%! Everything you said is dead on!

I am utterly amazed by anyone who can say that everyone who lives there should just move and New Orleans is not worth rebuilding. I would never even think that about a city that I saw a tragedy like that happen in. When the earthquakes happened in SF in 89, I didn't think, "Those people are stupid for living on a faultline." People who grew up in New Orleans (I include the surrounding area in this) feel a connection to the place and each other that is rare and valuable.

Again, everyone should read "1 Dead in Attic" by Chris Rose.

He sums up what I was trying to say nicely here:

http://www.katrina-la.net/letter-to-america.php

shouldnt certain sections of the city or areas not be rebuilt? maybe some areas be turned into high parkland and turn into a natural barrier? just curious to some thoughts on that?

rrivers

jlew24asu wrote:

shouldnt certain sections of the city or areas not be rebuilt? maybe some areas be turned into high parkland and turn into a natural barrier? just curious to some thoughts on that?

If you lived in those certain areas of the city and many generations have lived there, would you want someone saying they shouldn't be rebuilt? The levees need to be made what they should have been before Katrina and that will solve the problem.

jlew24asu

rrivers wrote:

If you lived in those certain areas of the city and many generations have lived there, would you want someone saying they shouldn't be rebuilt? The levees need to be made what they should have been before Katrina and that will solve the problem.

yea its not an easy decision. but I think rebuilding is just setting yourself up for another disaster.

what they should have been? you mean to protect from a cat 5 hurricane?

rrivers

jlew24asu wrote:

yea its not an easy decision. but I think rebuilding is just setting yourself up for another disaster.

what they should have been? you mean to protect from a cat 5 hurricane?

Yes to protect from a cat 5 hurricane.

Why is it setting up for another disaster? New Orleans hasn't had a hurricane hit it in a long time. Katrina didn't even hit it straight on and if the levees had been what they needed to be, we wouldn't even be talking about this.

Where exactly would you have the people go in the places you don't want to rebuild in? I'm sure you would love to have someone tell you not to rebuild where you and your family has lived for generations.