US Marines murdered British journalist (Iraq)
darkcrow
Posts: 1,102
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6046950.stm
A coroner has recorded a verdict of unlawful killing on ITN reporter Terry Lloyd, who was shot dead by US forces in southern Iraq in March 2003.
An inquest heard Mr Lloyd was killed by a US bullet near Basra. His interpreter died and his cameraman is missing.
It was told Mr Lloyd, 50 and originally from Derby, was hit while in a makeshift ambulance, having already been hurt by American-Iraqi crossfire.
The coroner is to ask the attorney general to consider pressing charges.
Oxfordshire Assistant Deputy Coroner Andrew Walker said he would also be writing to the director of public prosecutions asking for him to investigate the possibility of bringing charges.
'War crime'
Mr Lloyd's Lebanese interpreter, Hussein Osman, was also killed and French cameraman Fred Nerac is still officially classed as missing, presumed dead. Belgian cameraman Daniel Demoustier was the ITN crew's only survivor.
The National Union of Journalists (NUJ) said Mr Lloyd's killing was a "war crime" and this was echoed by Mr Lloyd's widow, Lyn.
In a statement she said: "This was a very serious war crime, how else can firing on a vehicle in these circumstances be interpreted?
"This was not a friendly fire incident or a crossfire incident, it was a despicable, deliberate, vengeful act, particularly as it came many minutes after the initial exchange.
"US forces appear to have allowed their soldiers to behave like trigger happy cowboys in an area where civilians were moving around."
Mr Lloyd's daughter Chelsey said: "The killing of my father would seem to amount to murder, which is deeply shocking."
A spokesman for the US Department of Defense said an investigation in May 2003 had found that US forces followed the rules of engagement.
"The Department of Defense has never deliberately targeted non-combatants, including journalists," he said.
"We have always gone to extreme measures to avoid civilian casualties and collateral damage.
"It has been an unfortunate reality that journalists have died in Iraq. Combat operations are inherently dangerous."
ITN praised
Mr Lloyd was covering the British and American invasion of Iraq as a "unilateral" journalist, rather than those "embedded" with UK or US forces, who were subject to military censorship.
He and his three colleagues were caught up in a firefight between US and Iraqi forces near the Shatt Al Basra Bridge on 22 March 2003.
After an eight-day inquest Mr Walker cleared ITN of any blame for Mr Lloyd's death and praised him and his team for their "professionalism and dedication".
He said it was his view the American tanks had been first to open fire on the ITN crew's two vehicles.
He added Mr Lloyd would probably have survived the first bullet wound he received, but was killed as he travelled away in a makeshift ambulance.
Mr Walker said it "presented no threat to American forces" since it was a civilian minibus and was facing away from the US tanks.
"I have no doubt it was the fact that the vehicle stopped to pick up survivors that prompted the Americans to fire on that vehicle," he said.
ITN's editor in chief David Mannion said: "I would also like to say something that I know Terry would have wished me to say.
"Independent, unilateral reporting, free from official strictures, is crucial; not simply to us as journalists but to the role we play in a free and democratic society."
Mr Nerac's widow Fabienne said she would continue her "lonely vigil" to find out what happened to her husband.
END
Let us hope the US govt does the right and moral thing and sends the accused to England for prosecution.
A coroner has recorded a verdict of unlawful killing on ITN reporter Terry Lloyd, who was shot dead by US forces in southern Iraq in March 2003.
An inquest heard Mr Lloyd was killed by a US bullet near Basra. His interpreter died and his cameraman is missing.
It was told Mr Lloyd, 50 and originally from Derby, was hit while in a makeshift ambulance, having already been hurt by American-Iraqi crossfire.
The coroner is to ask the attorney general to consider pressing charges.
Oxfordshire Assistant Deputy Coroner Andrew Walker said he would also be writing to the director of public prosecutions asking for him to investigate the possibility of bringing charges.
'War crime'
Mr Lloyd's Lebanese interpreter, Hussein Osman, was also killed and French cameraman Fred Nerac is still officially classed as missing, presumed dead. Belgian cameraman Daniel Demoustier was the ITN crew's only survivor.
The National Union of Journalists (NUJ) said Mr Lloyd's killing was a "war crime" and this was echoed by Mr Lloyd's widow, Lyn.
In a statement she said: "This was a very serious war crime, how else can firing on a vehicle in these circumstances be interpreted?
"This was not a friendly fire incident or a crossfire incident, it was a despicable, deliberate, vengeful act, particularly as it came many minutes after the initial exchange.
"US forces appear to have allowed their soldiers to behave like trigger happy cowboys in an area where civilians were moving around."
Mr Lloyd's daughter Chelsey said: "The killing of my father would seem to amount to murder, which is deeply shocking."
A spokesman for the US Department of Defense said an investigation in May 2003 had found that US forces followed the rules of engagement.
"The Department of Defense has never deliberately targeted non-combatants, including journalists," he said.
"We have always gone to extreme measures to avoid civilian casualties and collateral damage.
"It has been an unfortunate reality that journalists have died in Iraq. Combat operations are inherently dangerous."
ITN praised
Mr Lloyd was covering the British and American invasion of Iraq as a "unilateral" journalist, rather than those "embedded" with UK or US forces, who were subject to military censorship.
He and his three colleagues were caught up in a firefight between US and Iraqi forces near the Shatt Al Basra Bridge on 22 March 2003.
After an eight-day inquest Mr Walker cleared ITN of any blame for Mr Lloyd's death and praised him and his team for their "professionalism and dedication".
He said it was his view the American tanks had been first to open fire on the ITN crew's two vehicles.
He added Mr Lloyd would probably have survived the first bullet wound he received, but was killed as he travelled away in a makeshift ambulance.
Mr Walker said it "presented no threat to American forces" since it was a civilian minibus and was facing away from the US tanks.
"I have no doubt it was the fact that the vehicle stopped to pick up survivors that prompted the Americans to fire on that vehicle," he said.
ITN's editor in chief David Mannion said: "I would also like to say something that I know Terry would have wished me to say.
"Independent, unilateral reporting, free from official strictures, is crucial; not simply to us as journalists but to the role we play in a free and democratic society."
Mr Nerac's widow Fabienne said she would continue her "lonely vigil" to find out what happened to her husband.
END
Let us hope the US govt does the right and moral thing and sends the accused to England for prosecution.
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Arent free-lance journalist in a war zone there on thier own accord, and at own risk?
And if what i gather from the story is true, the journalist was there in a fight in an unmarked car running around. Hes wounded, so he packed into a "make-shift ambulance" that is running around, stopping and going.
im not down playing the tragedy, but damn, how is this murder?
I mean. comon, you really think US soldiers run around takin pot shots at journalists? What would that accomplish?
war sucks..and innocent people die.....I'm sure those American soldiers were shitting their pants...worried they may not make it back....I can see some irratic shooting going on....sad and not fair...but again war sucks. I just wish the American people wouldn't be fed such a clean war..and realize the crap Bush and cronies got us in....okay I feel better thanks.
Actually the inquest ruled that the journalists were in a car clearly marked "TV". It was caught in a firefight and they tried to get out of the way. The soldiers kept firing on their car which, again, was clearly marked "TV". A civilian iraqi car, which was unchallanged by the soliders as it came up the road, picked up the wounded and drove them to hospital. as they drove away the soldiers fired on the car.....
This was a fair, honest and open inquest that took hold of all the facts and came up with a fair and honest verdict. now if the american govt want to keep saying they are standing up for truth, justice etc they should hand over the soliders to face british justice.
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The U.S. wants to, they really do. But darn, they didn't sign on the ICC, and well, they'll just handle this little matter on their own. OK ?
no its really not ok. we have a treaty with the us allowing both nations to apply to extrodite suspects who have possibly commited crimes in that country. the americans have just ratified the treaty so they better hand the soldiers over.
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and I don't doubt this could have been avoided....but do you really think the person that shot "that" bullet intentionally shot the reporter.......I doubt it...I'm sure that soldier was trying to cover his ass.......if anyone should be put on trail for this...it should be George and Tony. They put the soldier in this position....and the reporter....and I respect and honor and am eternally indebted to them...put their lives in danger when they go into wars...it sucks and its wrong...but it is what it is. If the American that shot the bullet were to face "british Justice" he would be held the scapegoat for all of Tony's and Georgies failed policies...
Oh, I'm with ya brother. Lets see what really happened and lets see some accountability. The other thread on this also broached the idea of silencing the media, which I think is an important corollary to all of this
accountability...why are we having this conversation...its freakin war people...people get shot in war....insurgents use ambulances...women...children to target US and British troops....if indeed it was an American bullet....it wasn't shot in malice....I don't trust my government..hate the current administration...as well as Tony..but not the poor soldier thats doing the dirty work for you and the starter of this thread...do you have any idea what its like in Iraq.
Can just see a poor soldier...brought before a court..he'd be the scape goat for all that's fkd up in this war.....and its the wrong guy....string up Tony.
Now the US soldiers that raped then shot the family..thats different...malice...do you not see the difference?? Seriously.
Dude, you keep glossing over one very important, inconvenient fact - namely, that the soldiers knew who these people were(media people) and decided to continue shooting anyways. Thats not an accident, but "an act of callous murder" as the head of the NUJ said in the UK.
No one knows what the soldiers were thinking, except for the soldiers. An English reporter got killed in the middle of a war zone where there are tons of uncertainties. Any death is terrible, but to want to charge soldiers with murder is insane in this situation.
Seriously, if you want to play cut and paste with all the bad media about Americans get a fucking life.
Good post ...
How do we know that for sure, though? A van being clearly marked with "TV" doesn't mean that the soldiers saw said markings in the middle of a firefight.
All kinds of misperceptions can happen in a firefight, especially when fighting an enemy notorious for hiding amongst civilians. And before people flip on out me, I am NOT making excuses for these guys. Just trying to account for the chaotic nature of the battlefield. Until these men are questioned, we have no idea what was going through their heads at the time.
this isnt cutting and pasting of anti-american media... this is about justice. if the soldiers didnt mean it then let them come to the uk to face the courts, to give their accounts and then to be cross-examined by the prosecution. if the soldiers are innocent what the american govt scared about? send them here and let justice be served.
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Ya well I know about the US bombs being dropped on innocent wedding parties, and I know about the red cross being lied to about Abu ghraib, and i know about civilian families being raped by U.S. soldiers, and I know about........
mmmmmm...mmmmmm...mmmmmmm good.
get that inta brother. want me to cut and paste all that shit for ya. or do ya want some other shit besides ?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5414136.stm
A US forces tank fired on vehicles carrying an ITN news team near Basra, a soldier has told the inquest into the death of journalist Terry Lloyd.
The British man, known only as Soldier B, gave evidence to the Oxford inquest from behind a screen.
It is the first public acknowledgement that UK forces saw the events of 22 March 2003, when Mr Lloyd, originally from Derby, died.
Hussein Osman, the interpreter for Mr Lloyd, 50, also died on that day.
The team's French cameraman Fred Nerac went missing.
Soldier B told Oxfordshire Assistant Deputy Coroner Andrew Walker that he saw three vehicles - one thought to be carrying Mr Lloyd and cameraman Daniel Demoustier, the second an Iraqi pick-up truck with a machine gun on the back, and a third with Mr Nerac and Mr Osman inside.
Once there was no further movement in the area and the threat had been taken out, the firing stopped
Soldier B
He witnessed an exchange of fire between the US tank and the Iraqi vehicle for about 30 seconds before the truck burst into flames.
He told the coroner: "I can't say for sure who engaged first.
"My recollection is that the tank engaged the vehicles."
Mr Lloyd's vehicle "also ignited and went off to the side of the road to its right and came to rest on the side of a field, burning".
Firing
Soldier B did not see anyone leave Mr Lloyd's vehicle, but saw the driver and passenger in the third vehicle run for cover.
"The tank continued to fire at the position where the people had taken cover.
"I couldn't see them but I could see it firing in that direction for a maximum of a minute.
"Once there was no further movement in the area and the threat had been taken out, the firing stopped."
When the firing stopped, Soldier B said he saw a green minibus stop, and although it was difficult to see with black smoke all around, it looked as if people were helped into the minibus.
He said there were no helicopters circling.
Reports following the incident suggested Mr Lloyd had been shot by a helicopter gunship as he was taken for medical help.
When Soldier B returned to the scene about eight hours later, he said there were no bodies or evidence of anyone injured in Mr Nerac's and Mr Hussein's vehicle. In the Iraqi pick-up truck he found three charred bodies and one body outside.
During Friday's hearing, ITN journalist Nicholas Walshe gave evidence about his investigation, on behalf of the news channel, into the death of his colleague.
Minibus
Mr Walshe said he spoke to Iraqis, of varying credibility, who said they were present in the minibus when Mr Lloyd was shot for the second time.
One Iraqi had told Mr Walshe that he saw Mr Lloyd injured on the ground and put him into the minibus. He heard him say "Sahafi", meaning "journalist" in Arabic, before he died.
Another "very credible" Iraqi said he had driven the minibus which took Mr Lloyd to hospital, according to Mr Walshe.
This driver said Mr Lloyd "appeared shot in the shoulder and his arm was broken", Mr Walshe told the coroner.
"He had been lying in the sand between two lanes of the road and walked to the car but was too weak to get in it without help."
Mr Walshe said the Iraqi then told him: "Terry was then shot in the head by US troops while the vehicle was leaving the scene.
"He showed the hole in the vehicle where he said the bullet passed through."
Another Iraqi told Mr Walshe he had seen Mr Lloyd crouching by the side of the road and then crawling towards the minibus before he was hit by American fire. He said he still managed to get into the minibus.
That Iraqi said he remembered seeing up to three helicopters above, but he was unclear about where the shot came from.
Mr Lloyd joined ITN in 1983, having begun his journalistic career in his native Derby.
END
also there was alligations that the american armed forces have removed around 15 mintues from a video shot by the troops of the firefight....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6037171.stm
Video of the aftermath of an attack in which ITN reporter Terry Lloyd died has been shown in public for the first time at an inquest into his death.
The US video shows American tanks and soldiers inspecting the wreckage of Mr Lloyd's 4x4 although the inquest's coroner said it may have been edited.
Mr Lloyd, 50, died from an American bullet in southern Iraq in March, 2003.
Anthony Hudson, for Mr Lloyd's family, has asked the coroner to return a verdict of unlawful killing.
Footage 'cut'
The footage shown to the court was taken by a cameraman attached to the tank unit which is alleged to have fired on Mr Lloyd's convoy and it was given to the Royal Military Police by American authorities some months after the incident.
A forensic video expert, who looked at a tape, estimated that 15 minutes of film may have been cut from the beginning.
Major Kay Roberts, of the Royal Military Police, said she was told by the Americans the footage they handed over was "everything that they had".
Mr Hudson told the coroner he could be "satisfied" on the evidence that whoever opened fire on Mr Lloyd did so with the intention of "killing him or causing really serious injury".
Mr Lloyd, 50, died on 22 March near the Shatt Al Basra Bridge after his four-man team got caught up in the crossfire between American and Iraqi forces.
Vehicle 'shot at'
Earlier, the inquest heard colleagues of Mr Lloyd were put into an Iraqi truck just before it was hit by gunfire from US tanks.
Lebanese interpreter Hussein Osman was killed and the remains of French cameraman Fred Nerac have never been found.
Mr Nerac and Mr Osman were driving behind Mr Lloyd and cameraman Daniel Demoustier when they came across an Iraqi convoy at the bridge. They turned around, but the Iraqi soldiers caught them up and forced Mr Osman to pull over.
Maj Roberts told the inquest witnesses said Mr Nerac and Mr Osman were taken out of their marked TV car and put into the back of a pick-up truck.
Mr Lloyd and Mr Demoustier waited in the car in front.
Mr Lloyd's daughter, Chelsey, has attended the hearings
She was told the vehicle was part of a convoy carrying Saddam Hussein's Baath Party leader to Iraq's second city, Basra.
Witnesses said the pick-up truck was shot at and exploded, said the major.
"Both were blown out and away from the vehicle and sustained serious lower limb injuries," she said.
Maj Roberts said Mr Nerac was "unlikely to have survived" if witnesses were to be believed.
Derby-born Mr Lloyd was hit by an Iraqi bullet then an American bullet hit him in the head and killed him outright as he was being evacuated by minibus to hospital, the inquest has been told.
His body was returned to his family in Cuddington, Buckinghamshire. Mr Demoustier survived the incident.
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The family and colleagues of ITN reporter Terry Lloyd, who died in Iraq in March 2003, today called for the American soldiers who killed him to be called to account.
Lloyd's daughter Chelsey said: "We now call on the director for public prosecutions to bring the soldiers, including their commanding officers to justice. Our courts will grant them a fair trial."
"It would seem to amount to murder, which is shocking.
"Many questions remain unanswered - what happened to Fred Nerac and Hussein Osman?"
Ms Lloyd suggested that the missing 15 minutes of film showed footage of her father walking to the van that was to take him to hospital but which was then fired on by the US military.
"Why is there 15 minutes of film missing which we believe would show the moments the two ITN vehicles came under fire and my father making his way to the minibus as it came under fire?"
Ms Lloyd thanked ITN for its support, particularly the editor-in-chief, David Mannion, and former chief executive Stewart Purvis. She also thanked the coroner and the Iraqi civilian who had tried to help her father get to hospital.
"I want to thank the man who tried to save my father's life by taking him to hospital in Basra. He was just the kind of man my father was trying to help in reporting the war neutrally with an emphasis on how it was affecting ordinary Iraqis."
Lawyer Louis Charalambous, speaking on behalf of Lloyd's widow Lyn, said: "As painful as it has been, she's relieved the truth has finally emerged, thanks to the efforts of so many. Terry was, in the words of Sir Trevor McDonald, a 'journalist's journalist'.
"This establishes the circumstances of his [Terry's] death. This was a very serious war crime. How else can firing on a vehicle in these circumstances be interpreted?
"This was not a friendly fire incident or a crossfire incident, it was a despicable, deliberate, vengeful act, particularly as it came many minutes after the initial exchange.
"US forces appear to have allowed their soldiers to behave like trigger-happy cowboys in an area where civilians were moving around."
Mrs Lloyd's statement called for those responsible for her husband's death to stand trial under the Geneva convention.
Cameraman Daniel Demoustier was the only member of the team to survive, after throwing himself from the car he was sharing with Lloyd.
He vowed to continue his work, saying: "Journalism may be risky but it's very important."
Mr Mannion said: "All of us want and need to know the truth. Terry Lloyd was killed in an unlawful act by a US marine who fired directly at the civilian minibus in which Terry, already badly injured, lay helpless.
"But we do not know the identity of the marine who shot him. ITN therefore fully supports the Lloyd family in their pursuit of justice and we welcome the coroner's decision to write to the attorney general and the DPP in an effort to bring those responsible for Terry's death to account before a court of law.
"I would also like to say something that I know Terry would have wished me to say. Independent, unilateral reporting, free from official strictures, is crucial; not simply to us as journalists but to the role we play in a free and democratic society.
"The loss of Terry, Fred and Hussein in pursuit of that aim has had a devastating and permanent effect upon ITN.
"ITN can do no better than quote the words of the coroner himself when he described them as 'men of the highest calibre'.
"Finally, ITN would like to pay particular tribute to our cameraman, Daniel Demoustier, whose evidence underlines how close he came to being killed and whose only thoughts in the immediate aftermath of this terrible tragedy were not for his own safety but for that of his colleagues."
Fabienne Nerac, the wife of Fred Nerac, who went missing during the incident, said she was grateful for the inquest although she said it had not done much to advance her knowledge about her husband's disappearance.
"Importantly, the coroner's verdict should help to strengthen the case for continuing to search for my husband," Mrs Nerac said in a statement read out on her behalf.
"You see, not everyone agrees that, after three-and-a-half years, I should keep on searching. That search has been a lonely vigil in many respects and I have not received as much help as I desperately need from the people who can still help me the most: the American authorities.
I also need more concerted and vigorous help from my own government and from the Iraqis to find Fred by searching Iraqi cemeteries in Iraq and to find and interview key Iraqi individuals, such as Ayob, the Ba'ath commander who may know what happened to Fred.
"The coroner and the family of Terry Lloyd understand the importance of having the truth come out, of seeing justice done, even if that may take a lifetime."
The National Union of Journalists' parliamentary group has requested an urgent meeting with the secretary of state for defence, Des Browne.
John McDonnell MP, the secretary of the group, said: "We are seeking an urgent meeting with the secretary of state to ensure that he demands that there is immediate legal action to bring to trial those involved in the killing of Terry Lloyd and to clarify what happened that day to the entire party.
"We are treating this as a serious outrage that needs to be fully investigated to bring closure to the friends, families and colleagues of those involved."
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OK. Good luck getting your "justice".
He voluntarily put himself in harms way.
21:30 on a Friday night darkcrow??
what is your problem? why can his family not have the right to see these soliders in court? guilty or innocent they shuold be brought to court so justice is served. in court the facts will come out and if it is discovered the soldiers are innocent then justice is served. if it is discovered that the soliders knew he was a journalist but still fired on his car then they should be thrown in prision for live. either way justice is served
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that is why we need to see these soliders in court... was an order given to fire? was it panic by a young inexperienced soldier? did the iraqis fire first? we need to know.
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Agreed.
First of all, is there any pure justice on the battlefield?
Its highly doubtful that if the soldiers were to face a court w/ jury in the UK, that the jury would not have their mind made up before the hearing.
that could be said for any and all jury trials across the world. stop trying to make excuses.... the family deserve justice to be served. trial by jury is the best system we have right now and so it must be used.
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I'll agree with that. Excuses can constantly be made. Get past them and get to the facts.
I understand what you're saying and I am not making excuses bud. IMO, your idea is great, but in a world like ours, I seriously dont think justice would be served. Just like the states, public opinion would overwhelm the outcome.
And also, the guy did go out onto a live battlefield in an active warzone notorious for extreme violence, where the enemy is well known to hide where civilians would be.
Also, thx for the rest of the articles.
I agree with this too. They would probably never be convicted if they were guilty.
there are safeguards. if the evidence is clear that the soldiers did nothing wrong but the jury still say they are guilty, the judge can call a mistrial or a retrial etc etc....
also about hiding where civilains would be.... i think you are confusing the iraqi army with hezbullah, hamas and other terrorists.
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