So Castro has retired

Nevermind

SBC03 wrote:

I dont see how anyone here can defend a system that wouldnt allow a band like PJ with its outspoken lead singer to play its music.

What would Castro do if ev spoke about him as he does about Bush?

What does Fidel Castro have to do with the American band Pearl Jam? When did Fidel say they couldnt play Cuba? Audioslave did and im sure Pj could if they wanted to.

SBC03

Freedom is my point. Some of you are so blind that you cant see the most inherent fact of this whole thread.

Change.

Some have taken the wrong approach to try to achieve this change, I agree.

The fact that we sit at home with a pc, buy all kinds of food and clothes, SPEAK OUR MINDS OVER WHATEVER, WHENEVER, AND ABOUT WHOMEVER WE WANT and in Cuba this liberty does not exist.

It is sad that some dont see this. But it is easy to be leftist, commy, marxist when you live in a country that allows you to be so.

Audioslave played there, yes, I have seen the video. They were led around by govt personel. Just like they would in the USSR, China and N Korea. Not Italy, Germany, Canada or the rest of the free world.

By the way, the plaza where Audioslave held the concert was in the process of being built b4 the success of the revolution.


Carlos Muñiz Varela was a cuban op, Mas was not a member of the CORU - "So next time before you spout off about things you know nothing about educate yourself on the topic a bit more."

Fidel has committed more terror on the Cuban people the the CORU has.

Again to blame the embargo is assenine. There are 193 other countries in the world. The US has that much pull so that the people of Cuba suffer? Canada cant do anything, GB, Italy, Germany, Seden? Hell, any other country that is part of the UN? The embargo does not do anything!! You can get a Heineken in Havana as well as in Omaha!!

The cuban people dont own anything. If the govt wants them out of the house, they are out. If you are a comp tech and they want you cutting cane, you are cutting cane.

Sleep tight, dont let the commies bite.

Commy

farfromglorified wrote:

:rolleyes:

Cuba probably has the highest suicide rate in the world (they stopped publishing statistics in the 90s). The people are poor, and most are not optimistic at all about things getting better. Those who dare to be optimistic and push for change in even their own lives are just as likely to end up in jail as they are to succeed.

Certainly there is a strong sense of community. And yes there are many areas that are "full of life" and generally fun. It's a beautiful country. But to suggest that Cuba is successful, by any measure, is frankly silly. The Cuban leadership has destroyed their best and brightest, unfortunately.



Each person's definition of success is different than the next. It's a damn shame that the Cuban leadership forbids people from holding and seeking out their own personal definitions as they apply the leaderships' definition upon everyone.

If you actually believed your own words and sentiments about the validity of each person's "definition of success", you'd despise Cuba's government as much as many do. But what you really mean is that Cuban leadership is willing to forcibly impose your definition of success upon its people.

its no differnet than any gov't. Its just that in Cuba they stress cooperation as opposed to competion, and the moral of teh peopel says much,.

catefrances

gabers wrote:

Or for us to assist them in aquiring their Democracy.

I agree, I'd love to visit Cuba legally. And I'm sure the people of Cuba wouldn't mind a modest improvement of their standard of living in exchange for a few more gringo tourists.

i already can visit cuba legally. hurrah for 'democracy'.

mammasan

SBC03 wrote:

Freedom is my point. Some of you are so blind that you cant see the most inherent fact of this whole thread.

Change.

Some have taken the wrong approach to try to achieve this change, I agree.

The fact that we sit at home with a pc, buy all kinds of food and clothes, SPEAK OUR MINDS OVER WHATEVER, WHENEVER, AND ABOUT WHOMEVER WE WANT and in Cuba this liberty does not exist.

It is sad that some dont see this. But it is easy to be leftist, commy, marxist when you live in a country that allows you to be so.

Audioslave played there, yes, I have seen the video. They were led around by govt personel. Just like they would in the USSR, China and N Korea. Not Italy, Germany, Canada or the rest of the free world.

By the way, the plaza where Audioslave held the concert was in the process of being built b4 the success of the revolution.


Carlos Muñiz Varela was a cuban op, Mas was not a member of the CORU - "So next time before you spout off about things you know nothing about educate yourself on the topic a bit more."

Fidel has committed more terror on the Cuban people the the CORU has.

Again to blame the embargo is assenine. There are 193 other countries in the world. The US has that much pull so that the people of Cuba suffer? Canada cant do anything, GB, Italy, Germany, Seden? Hell, any other country that is part of the UN? The embargo does not do anything!! You can get a Heineken in Havana as well as in Omaha!!

The cuban people dont own anything. If the govt wants them out of the house, they are out. If you are a comp tech and they want you cutting cane, you are cutting cane.

Sleep tight, dont let the commies bite.

My parents emigrated from Cuba in the late 60's early 70's. I still have family there today. I am well aware of the conditions in Cuba and in no way to I support the Castro government or the way it has treated the Cuban population. My point is that this countries calls for democracy in Cuba are pure and utter bullshit. They do not want democracy in Cuba they want a government that will allow our interest to supercede that of the Cuban peoples. This country has had a long history of supporting and maintaining corrupt and often brutal dictators in Cuba. Fidel,s predicessor, Batista, was such a person. Selling his people's furure and land in order to line his pockets.

When Castro first took power our government was happy to see Batista go. He had become to greedy and they figured that Castro was some back water revolutionary who could be easily bought off and business could continue as usual. It wasn't until they realized that Castro had no interest in please our interest that the relationship soured. Our government decided that action must be taken to preserve our interest in Cuba. Our government decided that it would carry out aggressive and covert actions against Cuba. The Castro government never once threaten this country, never once carried out an aggressive act against it yet our government decided to carry out a secret and violent war against Castro and the people of Cuba. Castro, who initially was no fan of the Soviets, had no choice but to accept their aid.

I'm no fan of Castro, but I can't help but wonder how things could have been for the Cuban people had the US never meddled in our affairs. Had the US government not decided that our corporate interests where more important than the interest of the Cuban people. Had we not undertaken such hostile actions against him would he have become the monster he became. Would he have turned to the Soviets for aid. I agree whole heartedly with you that Castro is a brutal dictator and I will be happy the day he dies, if he hasn't already, but our government shares the blame for what happened and is happening to the Cuban people.

Finally I find it a bit suspicious that these renewed calls for democracy in Cuba, by this administration, coincided with the discovery of a large oil reserve of the northern coast of Cuba in the North Cuba Basin.

mammasan

SBC03 wrote:

Carlos Muñiz Varela was a cuban op, Mas was not a member of the CORU - "So next time before you spout off about things you know nothing about educate yourself on the topic a bit more."

I know that Jorge Mas Canosa was not a member of CORU, he was the head of
Cuban American National Foundation. Through CANF he also established a paramilitary wing of the organization, with Jose "Pepe" Hernandez, in 1992 to carry out actions in Cuba to overthrow Castro. All of the men mentioned had ties, wether directly or indirectly, with CORU. While you are correct that Castro is probably responsible for more Cuban deaths than CORU that does not excuse our government from funding a terrorist organizations that is responsible for hundreds of innocent lives.

So I do know what the hell I'm talking about. Not to toot my own horn here but I can be pretty sure that not many on this message board have studied the history of Cuban-American relationships as much as I have.

SBC03

mammasan wrote:

My parents emigrated from Cuba in the late 60's early 70's.

As mine did in the early 60s

mammasan wrote:

My point is that this countries calls for democracy in Cuba are pure and utter bullshit. They do not want democracy in Cuba they want a government that will allow our interest to supercede that of the Cuban peoples.

I believe the US trully wants freedom for Cuba and they do have their agenda, but so do countires like Germany, France, China and Spain who deal with this oppressive regime. Calling out the US as the only country who "allow our (foreign) interest to supercede that of the Cuban peoples" is unjust as the afore mentioned countries do that now.

mammasan wrote:

This country has had a long history of supporting and maintaining corrupt and often brutal dictators in Cuba

I believe there has been only 2 dictators - Batista and Castro. The presidents of cuba were "elected" as was Batista the 1st time he was in office. I understand that there were corrupt officials, but they were not dictators.

mammasan wrote:

Fidel,s predicessor, Batista, was such a person. Selling his people's furure and land in order to line his pockets

Agreed. That is why there was a rebellion with so many different agendas. The SNFE aqnd DRE for democracy, The July 26 movement and PSP for communism. When Castro sent out che to unite the rebels, he approached the PSP b4 the SNFE. This made the SNFE suspiciuos of the July 26 movement, and were ultimately correct in the assumption. As che and Castro were already conspiring to lean towards comminism. This is the reason why Frank Pais left Castro in the Sierra Maestra and hid in Santiago. Pais had such a strong influence in the rebellion that he had him killed. Rauls wife, Vilma Espin, ratted him out to Batista's army. And they still have the gaul to say Pais was a martyr!!!

mammasan wrote:

Castro, who initially was no fan of the Soviets, had no choice but to accept their aid.

always a choice. Cuba was getting much more than they were giving to the soviets.

mammasan wrote:

I'm no fan of Castro, but I can't help but wonder how things could have been for the Cuban people had the US never meddled in our affairs. Had the US government not decided that our corporate interests where more important than the interest of the Cuban people. Had we not undertaken such hostile actions against him would he have become the monster he became. Would he have turned to the Soviets for aid.

Yes. When Castro decided to take govt control of all foreign entities in Cuba (just like his buddy in Venezuela is trying to do)

mammasan wrote:

but our government shares the blame for what happened and is happening to the Cuban people.

Agreed, but again, other countries must push for this change as some have recently. A little late but at least in the right direction.

mammasan wrote:

Finally I find it a bit suspicious that these renewed calls for democracy in Cuba, by this administration, coincided with the discovery of a large oil reserve of the northern coast of Cuba in the North Cuba Basin.

This has been common knowledge for some time now. There was an agreement between the US, Mexico, and Cuba that there would be no drilling. There is also a basin off the coast of FLA and I believe Mex as well.

These countries/companies involved with oil in Cuba -
Spain’s Repsol-YPF announced it was partnering with India’s Oil and Natural Gas Corp., and Norsk Hydro ASA of Norway to explore for oil and gas in six of the 59 deep-water blocks along Cuba’s maritime border with the United States. (Sherritt International Corp., the Canadian oil company, has acquired exploration rights in four of the deep-sea blocks.)

Free Cuba!!

Itaca

Money isn't freedom and democracy ins't the same as free markets or free trading. Would you say that you're free because you vote for a candidate once every 4 or 5 years? or because you're capable of saying, buying or do whatever you want? Are those things real? Are you free? Aren't the big corporations trying to manipulate you? Does your social level allowed you do whatever you want, buy whatever you want, work whereever you want, live as you desire?

I'm not trying to say that Dmocracy is an illusion, but let's think a little bit about our way of living before suggest a solution for another country, in this case Cuba.

If we look the results of Castro goverment, maby the best way for Cuba is Democracy, but what kind of democracy? US democracy, where big corporations have influency in their goverment? Or maby Latin American democracies like my country Peru, where the goverment is almost invisible and we have republic without citizens?

Perhaps we should think more about this things before giving a solution. Talking about other countries freedom might be one starting point for thinking about our own condition.