So Castro has retired

darkcrow

Did not see a thread so I thought I would start one.
Thought it was quite ironic Bush was calling for a democratic Cuba.... i guess he has forgotten about all those easily hackable voting machines, voter irregularities, the purging of voter registration rolls etc etc etc

Pacomc79

Democratic is the new buzz word for allowing US companies to come in and make all the money.

Democracy sucks, no one really wants a democracy, then you get a the stupid masses in control of everything. Stupid people in large groups are even stupider.


What I want is trade with Cuba and the US to open. The cuban people be free to own land and open businesses and that money stay in Cuba... to help Cuban people. If they want to import US goods... GREAT. Then we make money too, but I don't just arbitrarily want to see Hilton Havana or Dixie Crystals Bay of Pigs facility.

I want to be able to go to Havana, smoke a great cuban cigar and have a mojito in peace.

gabers

Pacomc79 wrote:

Democratic is the new buzz word for allowing US companies to come in and make all the money.

Or for us to assist them in aquiring their Democracy.

I agree, I'd love to visit Cuba legally. And I'm sure the people of Cuba wouldn't mind a modest improvement of their standard of living in exchange for a few more gringo tourists.

polaris

Pacomc79 wrote:

Democratic is the new buzz word for allowing US companies to come in and make all the money.

Democracy sucks, no one really wants a democracy, then you get a the stupid masses in control of everything. Stupid people in large groups are even stupider.


What I want is trade with Cuba and the US to open. The cuban people be free to own land and open businesses and that money stay in Cuba... to help Cuban people. If they want to import US goods... GREAT. Then we make money too, but I don't just arbitrarily want to see Hilton Havana or Dixie Crystals Bay of Pigs facility.

I want to be able to go to Havana, smoke a great cuban cigar and have a mojito in peace.

this would be nice ...

Kel Varnsen

darkcrow wrote:

Did not see a thread so I thought I would start one.
Thought it was quite ironic Bush was calling for a democratic Cuba.... i guess he has forgotten about all those easily hackable voting machines, voter irregularities, the purging of voter registration rolls etc etc etc

I am not sure I would call crappy voting machines, anywhere close to being on par with the same guy being president of a country, and pretty much running unopposed for almost 50 years.

polaris

Kel Varnsen wrote:

I am not sure I would call crappy voting machines, anywhere close to being on par with the same guy being president of a country, and pretty much running unopposed for almost 50 years.

yeah ... it's way worse ... nothing like preaching about democracy and crap like that around the world while rigging your own elections ...

farfromglorified

The embargo absolutely should be lifted at this point.

know1

I think he's freeing up his availability to be Hillary's running mate if she gets the nomination.

rvp

is the end of an era... I hope USA stays far away from Cuba...

farfromglorified

know1 wrote:

I think he's freeing up his availability to be Hillary's running mate if she gets the nomination.

Hehe...cute.

jeffbr

rvp wrote:

is the end of an era... I hope USA stays far away from Cuba...

It isn't really the end of an era, is it? Raul is still in charge. He's controlled the guns there for 50 years. He and his brother Fidel differ stylistically to be sure, but do they differ substantively? I don't think so. Luckily Raul is a 76 year old alcoholic, so hopefully the end of an era is soon, but Raul has already been running the country for over a year, so today doesn't really change anything.


EDIT: and I agree with FFG. Life the embargo. Today.

Pacomc79

jeffbr wrote:

It isn't really the end of an era, is it? Raul is still in charge. He's controlled the guns there for 50 years. He and his brother Fidel differ stylistically to be sure, but do they differ substantively? I don't think so. Luckily Raul is a 76 year old alcoholic, so hopefully the end of an era is soon, but Raul has already been running the country for over a year, so today doesn't really change anything.


EDIT: and I agree with FFG. Life the embargo. Today.

It's a little different, Raul has let some private cabs stay in business aparently and some of the citizens are able to own land I think so that's a step toward liberty and such. Free Exchange of Ideas and the lifting of the embargo would be a great start. I just don't think it's completely all bad for countries like Cuba to discourage outside investment. If they can start paying better wages and get some of the draconian rules out of place Cuban Owned businesses can do very well once trade opens up and it would make it more individual and special from the other tourist destinations. I'd say beginning with the next presidents 100 days, trade talks and dealings with Cuba will begin again. It won't happen with Bush in office though.

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSN1926216920080219

Commy

farfromglorified wrote:

The embargo absolutely should be lifted at this point.

agreed.

polaris

Commy wrote:

agreed.

it should have been lifted long ago ... only ego and spite and some huge miami lobby has kept that embargo in place ...

TheVoiceInside

any president tha lifts the embargo while Fidel is still alive wil be in dangerous waters with the cuban mafia in miami. anyway I dont see any change comming soon and the word in the caribbean is that Cuba is going to slowly change into a system similar to that of China. Will see what happen, but today is the start of better things for the Cuban people.

Commy

TheVoiceInside wrote:

any president tha lifts the embargo while Fidel is still alive wil be in dagerous waters with the cuban mafia in miami. anyway I dont see any change comming soon and the word in the caribbean is that Cuba is going to slowly change into a system similar to that of China. Will see what happen, but today is the start of better things for the Cuban people.

Cuba needs to fear the Miami terrorists, Miami doesn't need to fear Cuba. The Miami terrorists are much more dangerous.

TheVoiceInside

Commy wrote:

Cuba needs to fear the Miami terrorists, Miami doesn't need to fear Cuba. The Miami terrorists are much more dangerous.

I know and we should include any president that tries to negociate with the cuban goverment while Castro is still alive. Those are some crazy mother fuckers.

Nevermind

Its time for us to put another dictator in there.

DriftingByTheStorm

Pacomc79 wrote:

Democracy sucks, no one really wants a democracy,

Neither did our founding fathers.
Thats why they set up what they thought would remain a Constitutional Republic.

Your quote about "the stupid masses in control of everything" is PRECISELY the reason they chose a Republic over a Democracy.

Just FYI.

Commy

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Neither did our founding fathers.
Thats why they set up what they thought would remain a Constitutional Republic.

Your quote about "the stupid masses in control of everything" is PRECISELY the reason they chose a Republic over a Democracy.

Just FYI.

Everyone assumes people are stupid, a mistake I think. Anarchist societies can fuction, and have...in a way its the truest form of a democracy, the people deciding for themselves what actions to take as communities.

I think it wrong to assume people are stupid and cant' rule themselves. Unfortunately an educated participating citizenry is a threat to democracy, these days, so we are going to have to do more than hope if we want to see a free society.

CaterinaA

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Neither did our founding fathers.
Thats why they set up what they thought would remain a Constitutional Republic.

Your quote about "the stupid masses in control of everything" is PRECISELY the reason they chose a Republic over a Democracy.

Just FYI.

First, I have the feeling that Pacom was being sarcastic.

Second, what makes you think that Republic and Democracy are opposites or exclusionary? Actually, there's plenty of republics with democratic regimes. When a country is a republic it usually means it is conducted by a president; when a republic is also a democracy its conductor is ellected by popular vote, so you can have both.

Republic comes from the latin word: respublica, which means "public thing". Strictly speaking a country is a republic when the people is sovereign, meaning the country is not under a monrachy or a dictatorial regime. Whereas, democracy in its pure procedural definition refers to the procedures used to elect a President. Hence, Chile, Argentina and the US (to name a few) can be considered democratic republics.

Nevermind

CNN just told me that Cuba is a state sponsor of terror.

SBC03

ignorance is bliss.

there is not one person in Cuba who has a say in anything that they do. They cant take a shit in hotel if they needed to. (look up the civil rights movement here in the states)

They are told where to live, what to do for a living, and how much to eat for a month.

They steal from the gov't to trade for necessities (soap, toilet paper, tampons)

The embargo should lifted, then the dictatorship will not have anyone to blame for the problems but themselves. FYI Cuba bought over $400 mil in 2007 alone from the US. Mainlly from farmers in Nebraska, Iowa and Texas.
Oh and if your visiting you can buy windex, carona, hineken, sony, sharp etc. etc with the euro or the dollar. But you must be tourist. so the embargo my ass.

Miami terrorists? give me a fuckin break. Who do they terrorize? The cuban people, is that why they risk their lives to cross shark infested waters or if they're lucky, have family members pay 3gs a head to be smuggled.

And for all this shit there are flights on Continental and American to Cuba.

Che and Castro are mudering fucks just like Pinochet, Mussalini, Hitler, Stalin

FYI - Cuba had the color tv and the fridge before the US

josevolution

darkcrow wrote:

Did not see a thread so I thought I would start one.
Thought it was quite ironic Bush was calling for a democratic Cuba.... i guess he has forgotten about all those easily hackable voting machines, voter irregularities, the purging of voter registration rolls etc etc etc

i so wanted to read that he had "died" i hope he does soon ....

SBC03

Nevermind wrote:

CNN just told me that Cuba is a state sponsor of terror.

Tupacs mom, whom I believe is considered a terroist by the US, lives in Cuba

http://cuban-exile.com/menu1/!terror.html

Nevermind

SBC03 wrote:

ignorance is bliss.

there is not one person in Cuba who has a say in anything that they do. They cant take a shit in hotel if they needed to. (look up the civil rights movement here in the states)

They are told where to live, what to do for a living, and how much to eat for a month.

They steal from the gov't to trade for necessities (soap, toilet paper, tampons)

The embargo should lifted, then the dictatorship will not have anyone to blame for the problems but themselves. FYI Cuba bought over $400 mil in 2007 alone from the US. Mainlly from farmers in Nebraska, Iowa and Texas.
Oh and if your visiting you can buy windex, carona, hineken, sony, sharp etc. etc with the euro or the dollar. But you must be tourist. so the embargo my ass.

Miami terrorists? give me a fuckin break. Who do they terrorize? The cuban people, is that why they risk their lives to cross shark infested waters or if they're lucky, have family members pay 3gs a head to be smuggled.

And for all this shit there are flights on Continental and American to Cuba.

Che and Castro are mudering fucks just like Pinochet, Mussalini, Hitler, Stalin

FYI - Cuba had the color tv and the fridge before the US

Did the United States tell you this?

Nevermind

SBC03 wrote:

Tupacs mom, whom I believe is considered a terroist by the US, lives in Cuba

http://cuban-exile.com/menu1/!terror.html

That must be why. Tupacs last album was the shit. Killuminati

SBC03

Nevermind wrote:

Did the United States tell you this?

No, I have 2 brothers that work with me that have defected. One came 10 yrs ago and the other 9.06. Thay have another brother who "won" his visa and came in Dec. They still have a sister there, but she hasnt "won" her visa yet. So, from first hand info I kind get an idea of what is happening. Also remember, those who live in Havana can "get more" things as opposed to someone who lives outside of the city.

If you want me to be more specific or have any questions let me know, more than happy to enlighten.

Commy

SBC03 wrote:

No, I have 2 brothers that work with me that have defected. One came 10 yrs ago and the other 9.06. Thay have another brother who "won" his visa and came in Dec. They still have a sister there, but she hasnt "won" her visa yet. So, from first hand info I kind get an idea of what is happening. Also remember, those who live in Havana can "get more" things as opposed to someone who lives outside of the city.

If you want me to be more specific or have any questions let me know, more than happy to enlighten.

The thing that hit me the most about Cuba was the strong sense of community the people shared. In the poorest of areas they still had a VERY optimistic approach to life and were almost always smiling. It was very remarkable. Its true they didnt' have some of the barest essentials, but it was a minor inconvenience it seemed. The strong sense of community and warmth are what I will always remember about what I've seen of Cuba.

Nevermind

SBC03 wrote:

No, I have 2 brothers that work with me that have defected. One came 10 yrs ago and the other 9.06. Thay have another brother who "won" his visa and came in Dec. They still have a sister there, but she hasnt "won" her visa yet. So, from first hand info I kind get an idea of what is happening. Also remember, those who live in Havana can "get more" things as opposed to someone who lives outside of the city.

If you want me to be more specific or have any questions let me know, more than happy to enlighten.

Dont have any questions. Ive been to Cuba.

SBC03

what was your impression?