when peace is a symbol of the devil

darkcrowdarkcrow Posts: 1,102
edited November 2006 in A Moving Train
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061127/ap_on_re_us/anti_peace_sign

DENVER - A homeowners association in southwestern Colorado has threatened to fine a resident $25 a day until she removes a Christmas wreath with a peace sign that some say is an anti- Iraq war protest or a symbol of Satan.

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Some residents who have complained have children serving in Iraq, said Bob Kearns, president of the Loma Linda Homeowners Association in Pagosa Springs. He said some residents have also believed it was a symbol of Satan. Three or four residents complained, he said.

"Somebody could put up signs that say drop bombs on Iraq. If you let one go up you have to let them all go up," he said in a telephone interview Sunday.

Lisa Jensen said she wasn't thinking of the war when she hung the wreath. She said, "Peace is way bigger than not being at war. This is a spiritual thing."

Jensen, a past association president, calculates the fines will cost her about $1,000, and doubts they will be able to make her pay. But she said she's not going to take it down until after Christmas.

"Now that it has come to this I feel I can't get bullied," she said. "What if they don't like my Santa Claus."

The association in this 200-home subdivision 270 miles southwest of Denver has sent a letter to her saying that residents were offended by the sign and the board "will not allow signs, flags etc. that can be considered divisive."

The subdivision's rules say no signs, billboards or advertising are permitted without the consent of the architectural control committee.

Kearns ordered the committee to require Jensen to remove the wreath, but members refused after concluding that it was merely a seasonal symbol that didn't say anything. Kearns fired all five committee members.
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Comments

  • Yep, I heard this on Lex and Terry this morning....I am ashamed of this country in so many ways right now. What the hell is happening?
    "F**K you, I have laundry to do" -ed
  • bigmuzzbigmuzz Posts: 299
    that is just fucking ridiculous............how does this even happen? who thinks like this?




    the irony is, in a couple weeks when people start pumping xmas songs on radio and tv and everywhere, theyll all sing along to john lennon...war is over if you want it...
    Sydney Wed 8 Nov 2006....

    when all are one and one is all, to be a rock and not to roll.........

    see me @ www.myspace.com/bigmuzz

    keep on rockin!.......
  • this is what you get in a politically correct world...
    I'll dig a tunnel
    from my window to yours
  • CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    How does that saying go again?

    Oh yeah; only in America.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


    naděje umírá poslední
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    i dont even know what to say. this is fucked up. isn't one of the nicknames they give to jesus "the prince of peace"?
  • hippiemomhippiemom Posts: 3,326
    WTF?! I've been getting Christmas cards that said "Peace on Earth" since long before the Iraq war. As soulsinging said, Jesus is the Prince of Peace, at least that's what they taught me in Sunday school.

    And these people with kids in Iraq ... what's the deal with them? You'd think they'd want peace more than anyone! I don't know, maybe their kids are real shits and they don't want them home.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • Good Lord. You would think that if any parents would be for peace it would be the ones who have children serving overseas.
  • normnorm Posts: 31,146
    darkcrow wrote:
    Some residents who have complained have children serving in Iraq, said Bob Kearns, president of the Loma Linda Homeowners Association in Pagosa Springs. He said some residents have also believed it was a symbol of Satan. Three or four residents complained, he said.

    "Somebody could put up signs that say drop bombs on Iraq. If you let one go up you have to let them all go up," he said in a telephone interview Sunday.
    What the Fuck!!! This guy is a serious asshole who needs his butt kicked.
    Kearns ordered the committee to require Jensen to remove the wreath, but members refused after concluding that it was merely a seasonal symbol that didn't say anything. Kearns fired all five committee members.
    Seriously, this guy needs an ass kicking!


    PEACE;)!!!
  • qtegirlqtegirl Posts: 321
    This is my favorite part:
    darkcrow\ wrote:
    Kearns ordered the committee to require Jensen to remove the wreath, but members refused after concluding that it was merely a seasonal symbol that didn't say anything. Kearns fired all five committee members.
  • Honestly? A Christmas wreath with a peace sign a symbol of Satan? What are they putting on their own doors, swastikas covered in Holly leaves?

    I can't believe I was ever an Evangelical.
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • I saw a documentary on Discovery a few months ago about Homeowner Associations and how corrupt they are. The sad truth is that the association has way more control over the homeowners than anyone realizes. If they pushed her hard enough it sounds like she'd have to pay the fees. I know it's fucked up but rules are rules and if she agreed to them and signed the contract, which she very likely did, then she has to play by their rules.

    I cannot believe the president of the HOA fired all five committee members. What a fuckass.
  • miller8966miller8966 Posts: 1,450
    People are morons.let her keep the peace sign up
    America...the greatest Country in the world.
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
    A comment from a Baptist (my Aunt) regarding a peace symbol I wore years ago is what turned me off of organized religion for good.

    She told me it was a symbol for Satan and abortion.....How? I asked....the whole world sees it as a sign for peace and hope.

    Apparently, the sticks inside the circle are an ancient symbol for man....but they are inverted, so they represent a dead person.....the circle around the dead person represents a womb....therefore, the dead person in a womb represents abortion. Which is the work of Satan.
  • normnorm Posts: 31,146
    A comment from a Baptist (my Aunt) regarding a peace symbol I wore years ago is what turned me off of organized religion for good.

    She told me it was a symbol for Satan and abortion.....How? I asked....the whole world sees it as a sign for peace and hope.

    Apparently, the sticks inside the circle are an ancient symbol for man....but they are inverted, so they represent a dead person.....the circle around the dead person represents a womb....therefore, the dead person in a womb represents abortion. Which is the work of Satan.
    Don't they have anything better to do than make shit like that up?
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    A comment from a Baptist (my Aunt) regarding a peace symbol I wore years ago is what turned me off of organized religion for good.

    She told me it was a symbol for Satan and abortion.....How? I asked....the whole world sees it as a sign for peace and hope.

    Apparently, the sticks inside the circle are an ancient symbol for man....but they are inverted, so they represent a dead person.....the circle around the dead person represents a womb....therefore, the dead person in a womb represents abortion. Which is the work of Satan.
    ...
    I have also heard that it is a 'Twisted Cross'... similar to the Nazi's Swastika.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • A comment from a Baptist (my Aunt) regarding a peace symbol I wore years ago is what turned me off of organized religion for good.

    She told me it was a symbol for Satan and abortion.....How? I asked....the whole world sees it as a sign for peace and hope.

    Apparently, the sticks inside the circle are an ancient symbol for man....but they are inverted, so they represent a dead person.....the circle around the dead person represents a womb....therefore, the dead person in a womb represents abortion. Which is the work of Satan.
    Which makes sense when you think about it. Those damn republicans were for the war and they're also anti-choice. So now they have one symbol that represents two things they hate.
  • I say,....we do our good deed for the season.....and find this stupid ass neighborhood......and send them "peace on earth" cards. Boxes full of cards!!!!!!! It would give me a purpose for a few days!
    "F**K you, I have laundry to do" -ed
  • From wikipedia, so take it for what it's worth....

    "The fact that the symbol resembles a bird foot in a circle gave rise to spurious alternative interpretations, ranging from plain mockery of "crow's foot" or "The Footprint of the American Chicken" (suggesting that peace activists were cowards) to a number of occult meanings, such as an upside down crucifix with the arms broken downward, suggesting the way that St. Peter was martyred. It is also seen by some as an anti-Christian symbol representing an upside down broken cross.[1] Others have claimed that the symbol represents a medieval sign known as "Nero's Cross" that represents Satanism [citation needed]. This comes from its resemblance to a similar symbol. Alternatively, some have suggested that the symbol is an inverted Elhaz rune, which would reverse the rune's general meaning from 'life' to 'death'."


    Broken arms?? Maybe, because that's a fuckin' stretch! ;):D
    ~~*~~ ...i surfaced and all of my being was enlightend... ~~*~~
  • http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/~lcushing/addpages/PeaceSymbolArticle.html

    A history of the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament

    One of the most widely known symbols in the world, in Britain it is recognised as standing for nuclear disarmament – and in particular as the logo of the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament (CND). In the United States and much of the rest of the world it is known more broadly as the peace symbol. It was designed in 1958 by Gerald Holtom, a professional designer and artist and a graduate of the Royal College of Arts. He showed his preliminary sketches to a small group of people in the Peace News office in North London and to the Direct Action Committee Against Nuclear War, one of several smaller organisations that came together to set up CND.

    The Direct Action Committee had already planned what was to be the first major anti-nuclear march, from London to Aldermaston, where British nuclear weapons were and still are manufactured. It was on that march, over the 1958 Easter weekend that the symbol first appeared in public. Five hundred cardboard lollipops on sticks were produced. Half were black on white and half white on green. Just as the church’s liturgical colours change over Easter, so the colours were to change, “from Winter to Spring, from Death to Life.” Black and white would be displayed on Good Friday and Saturday, green and white on Easter Sunday and Monday.

    The first badges were made by Eric Austin of Kensington CND using white clay with the symbol painted black. Again there was a conscious symbolism . They were distributed with a note explaining that in the event of a nuclear war, these fired pottery badges would be among the few human artifacts to survive the nuclear inferno. These early ceramic badges can still be found and one, lent by CND, was included in the Imperial War Museum’s 1999/2000 exhibition From the Bomb to the Beatles.

    What does it mean?

    Gerald Holtom, a conscientious objector who had worked on a farm in Norfolk during the Second World War, explained that the symbol incorporated the semaphore letters N(uclear) and D(isarmament). He later wrote to Hugh Brock, editor of Peace News, explaining the genesis of his idea in greater, more personal depth:

    I was in despair. Deep despair. I drew myself: the representative of an individual in despair, with hands palm outstretched outwards and downwards in the manner of Goya’s peasant before the firing squad. I formalised the drawing into a line and put a circle round it.

    Eric Austin added his own interpretation of the design: "the gesture of despair had long been associated with the death of Man and the circle with the unborn child."






    Gerald Holtom had originally considered using the Christian cross symbol within a circle as the motif for the march but various priests he had approached with the suggestion were not happy at the idea of using the cross on a protest march. Later, ironically, Christian CND were to use the symbol with the central stroke extended upwards to form the upright of a cross. This adaptation of the design was only one of many subsequently invented by various groups within CND and for specific occasions – with a cross below as a women’s symbol, with a daffodil or a thistle incorporated by CND Cymru and Scottish CND, with little legs for a sponsored walk etc. Whether Gerald Holtom would have approved of some of the more light-hearted versions is open to doubt.

    The symbol almost at once crossed the Atlantic. Bayard Rustin, a close associate of Martin Luther King had come over from the US in order to take part in that first Aldermaston March. He took the symbol back to the United States where it was used on civil rights marches. Later it appeared on anti-Vietnam War demonstrations and was even seen daubed in protest on their helmets by American GIs. Simpler to draw than the Picasso peace dove, it became known, first in the US and then round the world as the peace symbol. It appeared on the walls of Prague when the Soviet tanks invaded in 1968, on the Berlin Wall, in Sarajevo and Belgrade, on the graves of the victims of military dictators from the Greek Colonels to the Argentinian junta, and most recently in East Timor.

    There have been claims that the symbol has older, occult or anti-Christian associations. In South Africa, under the apartheid regime, there was an official attempt to ban it. Various far-right and fundamentalist American groups have also spread the idea of Satanic associations or condemned it as a Communist sign. However the origins and the ideas behind the symbol have been clearly described, both in letters and in interviews, by Gerald Holtom and his original, first sketches are now on display as part of the Commonweal Collection in Bradford.

    Although specifically designed for the anti-nuclear movement it has quite deliberately never been copyrighted. No one has to pay or to seek permission before they use it. A symbol of freedom, it is free for all. This of course sometimes leads to its use, or misuse, in circumstances that CND and the peace movement find distasteful. It is also often exploited for commercial, advertising or generally fashion purposes. We can’t stop this happening and have no intention of copyrighting it. All we can do is to ask commercial users if they would like to make a donation. Any money received is used for CND’s peace education and information work.
  • aNiMaLaNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    I saw a documentary on Discovery a few months ago about Homeowner Associations and how corrupt they are. The sad truth is that the association has way more control over the homeowners than anyone realizes. If they pushed her hard enough it sounds like she'd have to pay the fees. I know it's fucked up but rules are rules and if she agreed to them and signed the contract, which she very likely did, then she has to play by their rules.

    I cannot believe the president of the HOA fired all five committee members. What a fuckass.
    Yep, this is the real issue here....the home owners association.
  • hippiemomhippiemom Posts: 3,326
    humanlight wrote:
    I say,....we do our good deed for the season.....and find this stupid ass neighborhood......and send them "peace on earth" cards. Boxes full of cards!!!!!!! It would give me a purpose for a few days!
    How about just this one guy? The guy that fired the entire committee. His name is even in the article, haha!

    Hail the newborn prince of peace!
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • this is what you get in a politically correct world...

    What's political correctness got to do with it?
    "We have to change the concept of patriotism to one of “matriotism” — love of humanity that transcends war. A matriarch would never send her own children off to wars that kill other people’s children." Cindy Sheehan
    ---
    London, Brixton, 14 July 1993
    London, Wembley, 1996
    London, Wembley, 18 June 2007
    London, O2, 18 August 2009
    London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 31 July 2012
    Milton Keynes Bowl, 11 July 2014
    London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 06 June 2017
    London, O2, 18 June 2018
    London, O2, 17 July 2018
    Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 09 June 2019
    Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 10 June 2019



  • What's political correctness got to do with it?

    If you have the right to be offended by someone's speech and deliver reprecussions to the speaker based on that offense, you grant that same right to another.
  • seagoat2seagoat2 Posts: 241
    hippiemom wrote:
    How about just this one guy? The guy that fired the entire committee. His name is even in the article, haha!

    Hail the newborn prince of peace!

    I don't mean to sound mean, but seriously - I think that guy needs to "get a life"!!!!!!!

    And I wonder if he asked those parents with children in Iraq if they wouldn't rather see "peace" there as well, so thier children could come home.....
  • If you have the right to be offended by someone's speech and deliver reprecussions to the speaker based on that offense, you grant that same right to another.


    So what's that got to do with political correctness?
    "We have to change the concept of patriotism to one of “matriotism” — love of humanity that transcends war. A matriarch would never send her own children off to wars that kill other people’s children." Cindy Sheehan
    ---
    London, Brixton, 14 July 1993
    London, Wembley, 1996
    London, Wembley, 18 June 2007
    London, O2, 18 August 2009
    London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 31 July 2012
    Milton Keynes Bowl, 11 July 2014
    London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 06 June 2017
    London, O2, 18 June 2018
    London, O2, 17 July 2018
    Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 09 June 2019
    Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 10 June 2019



  • So what's that got to do with political correctness?

    "Political correctness" is the deliverance of guilt or injury as a repercussion for speech deemed subjectively offensive, which is precisely what is happening here.
  • "Political correctness" is the deliverance of guilt or injury as a repercussion for speech deemed subjectively offensive, which is precisely what is happening here.

    YAWN. Whatever. Ever heard of the Plain English campaign?

    Sorry, I'm so tired I can't keep my eyes open. What I thought you meant was that because this woman has the temerity to put up a peace sign she is offending the people who don't like it. So therefore thanks to "PC-ness", the residents association feels they have the right to complain about it. (Which is basically infringing on her right to put up her decoration, (which is not even offensive). Right or wrong?
    "We have to change the concept of patriotism to one of “matriotism” — love of humanity that transcends war. A matriarch would never send her own children off to wars that kill other people’s children." Cindy Sheehan
    ---
    London, Brixton, 14 July 1993
    London, Wembley, 1996
    London, Wembley, 18 June 2007
    London, O2, 18 August 2009
    London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 31 July 2012
    Milton Keynes Bowl, 11 July 2014
    London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 06 June 2017
    London, O2, 18 June 2018
    London, O2, 17 July 2018
    Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 09 June 2019
    Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 10 June 2019



  • So therefore thanks to "PC-ness", the residents association feels they have the right to complain about it. (Which is basically infringing on her right to put up her decoration, (which is not even offensive). Right or wrong?

    Right, minus the "not even offensive" part.
  • AbuskedtiAbuskedti Posts: 1,917
    If you have the right to be offended by someone's speech and deliver reprecussions to the speaker based on that offense, you grant that same right to another.

    To be offended is not a right.
  • AbuskedtiAbuskedti Posts: 1,917
    "Political correctness" is the deliverance of guilt or injury as a repercussion for speech deemed subjectively offensive, which is precisely what is happening here.

    This is insane.. Political correctness is not the deliverance of anything.

    Political correctness is a couple of words used for comedy more than anything else.

    Political has come to mean to decieve to achieve a result desired by those with the power to place and to keep a politician in their position

    correctness completely contradictics the word political which renders the phrase useless.
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