Newt blames the Katrina victims

darkcrow

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/03/04/newt-blames-the-victims-of-katrina/ (for the audio)

(Newt Gingrich, speaking at CPAC) blamed the residents of New Orleans' 9th Ward for a "failure of citizenship," by being "so uneducated and so unprepared, they literally couldn't get out of the way of a hurricane."

And he called for a "deep investigation" into this "failure of citizenship."

Here's the full quote:

How can you have the mess we have in New Orleans, and not have had deep investigations of the federal government, the state government, the city government, and the failure of citizenship in the Ninth Ward, where 22,000 people were so uneducated and so unprepared, they literally couldn't get out of the way of a hurricane. (emphasis original)

ledvedderman

Wow, I would like to say I'm surprised.

farfromglorified

I totally agree. And I despise Newt Gingrich. So I'm surprised too.

mammasan

Not that I'm a big fan of Newt, but there where buses provided for people to take, out of New Orleans, if they wished to evacuate prior to the hurricane reaching the city. So as far as people being stuck in NOLA they decided to ride out the storm there so they do bear some of the responsibility for their situation during the aftermath. Their fault in the whole mess of the aftermath is insignificant though compared to the blame that all levels of government have to bear. Lastly, while the people of the 9th Ward made the decision to stay I think it's a bit callous of Newt to even insinuate that these people should really be held equally responsible along with local, state, and federal government officials and agencies for this diseaster.

soulsinging

im a big believer that a lot of americans are really dumb. though im not sure it's lack of education and preparation that caused this... probly more so lack of money. not everyone can afford to fold up, drive cross country, and check into a hotel room for a week. these people took a chance and probaly would have been fine if those levees hadnt broken.

onelongsong

darkcrow wrote:

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/03/04/newt-blames-the-victims-of-katrina/ (for the audio)

(Newt Gingrich, speaking at CPAC) blamed the residents of New Orleans' 9th Ward for a "failure of citizenship," by being "so uneducated and so unprepared, they literally couldn't get out of the way of a hurricane."

And he called for a "deep investigation" into this "failure of citizenship."

Here's the full quote:

How can you have the mess we have in New Orleans, and not have had deep investigations of the federal government, the state government, the city government, and the failure of citizenship in the Ninth Ward, where 22,000 people were so uneducated and so unprepared, they literally couldn't get out of the way of a hurricane. (emphasis original)

prior to the hurricane; the news interviewed several people that refused to evacuate. the order was given to evacuate; but these people were going to fight the hurricane themselves. what other conclusions could you come to? the people are either stupid; ignorant; or uneducated.

onelongsong

mammasan wrote:

Not that I'm a big fan of Newt, but there where buses provided for people to take, out of New Orleans, if they wished to evacuate prior to the hurricane reaching the city. So as far as people being stuck in NOLA they decided to ride out the storm there so they do bear some of the responsibility for their situation during the aftermath. Their fault in the whole mess of the aftermath is insignificant though compared to the blame that all levels of government have to bear. Lastly, while the people of the 9th Ward made the decision to stay I think it's a bit callous of Newt to even insinuate that these people should really be held equally responsible along with local, state, and federal government officials and agencies for this diseaster.

you stopped short of saying that bush caused the hurricane to divert attention from the war.
can you explain what responsabilities government has in natural disasters? in a disaster of this size; what could the government have done differently? especially after sending so much money to the tsunami victims. how much of the budget was spent trying to evacuate those who refused to leave? if the city was evacuated as ordered; the billions spent on post evacuation would have been spent on rebuilding.
when the government runs out of money it's because you don't want to pay higher taxes.

Vedderlution_Baby

I don't really get this "You shoulda left, dumbass" point of view. People worked their entire lives for what they owned, for a home that supported them and their family, and items that to them would never be able to be replaced. So you had two options, especially if you were poorer. You either got to leave everything behind, with the possibility of losing it to the storm or the looting. Or you can stay, hope that the storm is either exaggerated or by some miracle that it diverts its path. I don't argue that they should have left, I don't think even the katrina victims would argue that. I just think there was more to it than them being to uneduated and stupid to get out.

soulsinging

onelongsong wrote:

you stopped short of saying that bush caused the hurricane to divert attention from the war.
can you explain what responsabilities government has in natural disasters? in a disaster of this size; what could the government have done differently? especially after sending so much money to the tsunami victims. how much of the budget was spent trying to evacuate those who refused to leave? if the city was evacuated as ordered; the billions spent on post evacuation would have been spent on rebuilding.
when the government runs out of money it's because you don't want to pay higher taxes.

they could have actually provided the requested funding for those levies. people knew this was a possibility but the government did nothing to fix it. perhaps if we werent pouring billions into worthless interventions in other countries, we'd have the funds to do things like that. shit, we could have had the army engineers do it and kept that precious military funding up.

onelongsong

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

I don't really get this "You shoulda left, dumbass" point of view. People worked their entire lives for what they owned, for a home that supported them and their family, and items that to them would never be able to be replaced. So you had two options, especially if you were poorer. You either got to leave everything behind, with the possibility of losing it to the storm or the looting. Or you can stay, hope that the storm is either exaggerated or by some miracle that it diverts its path. I don't argue that they should have left, I don't think even the katrina victims would argue that. I just think there was more to it than them being to uneduated and stupid to get out.

so the biggest storm in history is headed for you and you stop to think whether you should gamble your life over some posessions? i can see your point to some extent but they should've left. especially after seeing the devastation of the tsunami. when they chose to stay they took responsability for themselves.

farfromglorified

soulsinging wrote:

they could have actually provided the requested funding for those levies. people knew this was a possibility but the government did nothing to fix it. perhaps if we werent pouring billions into worthless interventions in other countries, we'd have the funds to do things like that. shit, we could have had the army engineers do it and kept that precious military funding up.

Hehe...they tried that. But then "Save our Wetlands" sued them in 1977 and won. Thirty years later, the Wetlands finished the job.

Vedderlution_Baby

onelongsong wrote:

so the biggest storm in history is headed for you and you stop to think whether you should gamble your life over some posessions? i can see your point to some extent but they should've left. especially after seeing the devastation of the tsunami. when they chose to stay they took responsability for themselves.

That's very easy for a wealthy person such as yourself to say that. To some of these people, these possessions were all they had to show for a life spent working. So, leave it all behind to go somewhere where you dont have anyone waiting for you, or try to ride out the storm. And it wasn't just a few petty possessions that could be easily replaced. It was houses that people spent their whole life paying for just to call their own. In a society where your success is based on your possessions, I can understand why many would choose to ride out the storm, hoping that it's not as bad as it seems to be.



By the way, I wasn't trying to use your wealth against you.

onelongsong

soulsinging wrote:

they could have actually provided the requested funding for those levies. people knew this was a possibility but the government did nothing to fix it. perhaps if we werent pouring billions into worthless interventions in other countries, we'd have the funds to do things like that. shit, we could have had the army engineers do it and kept that precious military funding up.

i've got projects in my state the government should take care of too. and what about the other levies throughout the country. and since you brought it up; the people knew the levies wouldn't hold and THEY STILL STAYED; making them bigger dumbass's than implied. i don't think it was very smart to build a city below sea level AT THE EDGE OF THE OCEAN and rebuilding it when the ice caps are melting is even stupider. you expect so much from government but you don't want government in your business. make up your bloody mind.

blackredyellow

onelongsong wrote:

so the biggest storm in history is headed for you and you stop to think whether you should gamble your life over some posessions? i can see your point to some extent but they should've left. especially after seeing the devastation of the tsunami. when they chose to stay they took responsability for themselves.

The question is, where were these thousands of people going to go, and how were they going to get there?

Hotels in surrounding states were full (even if they could afford rooms at the increased rates), Highways were back up for hours (not that many of these people had cars), and there were not enough shelters (the biggest one turned out to be a huge crisis on it's own).

I'm not saying the people are totally blameless for staying, but you make is sound so easy just to up and leave everything that they ever owned, when a lot of these people stayed and lived through numerous storms and evacuations.

onelongsong

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

That's very easy for a wealthy person such as yourself to say that. To some of these people, these possessions were all they had to show for a life spent working. So, leave it all behind to go somewhere where you dont have anyone waiting for you, or try to ride out the storm. And it wasn't just a few petty possessions that could be easily replaced. It was houses that people spent their whole life paying for just to call their own. In a society where your success is based on your possessions, I can understand why many would choose to ride out the storm, hoping that it's not as bad as it seems to be.



By the way, I wasn't trying to use your wealth against you.

i was born dirt poor. at times i worked 3 jobs swearing i'd never be poor again. but when a wildfire threatened my ranch i took pictures of my possessions and evacuated. i left everything behind. i've got some great pictures from that fire and it was stopped a mile from my house but i was in the same situation and chose saving my life over the posessions i worked so hard to get. i should also add that i couldn't get insurance because the ranch was in a remote area so i could have lost everything without any way of replacing it. i understand what you're saying but i was in a similar situation and i chose life.

Vedderlution_Baby

onelongsong wrote:

i was born dirt poor. at times i worked 3 jobs swearing i'd never be poor again. but when a wildfire threatened my ranch i took pictures of my possessions and evacuated. i left everything behind. i've got some great pictures from that fire and it was stopped a mile from my house but i was in the same situation and chose saving my life over the posessions i worked so hard to get. i should also add that i couldn't get insurance because the ranch was in a remote area so i could have lost everything without any way of replacing it. i understand what you're saying but i was in a similar situation and i chose life.

But you gotta understand that not everyone would. and that the situation isn't as black as white as "The smart ones left, the dumb ones stayed".



By the way, what does this guy expect to happen with a "deep investigation into failure of citizenship"?

soulsinging

onelongsong wrote:

i've got projects in my state the government should take care of too. and what about the other levies throughout the country. and since you brought it up; the people knew the levies wouldn't hold and THEY STILL STAYED; making them bigger dumbass's than implied. i don't think it was very smart to build a city below sea level AT THE EDGE OF THE OCEAN and rebuilding it when the ice caps are melting is even stupider. you expect so much from government but you don't want government in your business. make up your bloody mind.

the people didnt know the levies would give. scientists had told the government but they'd done their damndest to make sure no one else knew about it. yeah, new orleans is not the most stable city, but it serves a very important purpose to this entire country as the gateway to the mississippi and most of middle america. having a city there on the mouth of the country's largest river and only inland access to the ocean is critical. we all benefit from that.

i want government to provide the services it was enacted to provide... chiefly regulation and streamlining of interstate commerce. it provides services to its citizens and it should. that's why we have it. but yes, it has no business sticking its nose in my private life. but things like public parks and general municipal services are the exact purpose of government. that is there job. so there is no contradiction in expecting government to do what it's supposed to do to maintain roads and facilities while staying the fuck out of my private life.

farfromglorified

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

By the way, what does this guy expect to happen with a "deep investigation into failure of citizenship"?

The same thing that happens with a "deep investigation into the failure of government" -- nothing.

soulsinging

farfromglorified wrote:

Hehe...they tried that. But then "Save our Wetlands" sued them in 1977 and won. Thirty years later, the Wetlands finished the job.

sued who? i recall reading somewhere that levee projects were proposed to congress several times in the 90s and voted down, nothing to do with judicial injunctions.

even flow?

Did Newt go on to comment on the smart ones who left and still have nothing to come home to? I didn't think so.

That's like saying I told the US government that when they went into Iraq they wouldn't be able to control the people. Whatever Newt!

soulsinging

onelongsong wrote:

i was born dirt poor. at times i worked 3 jobs swearing i'd never be poor again. but when a wildfire threatened my ranch i took pictures of my possessions and evacuated. i left everything behind. i've got some great pictures from that fire and it was stopped a mile from my house but i was in the same situation and chose saving my life over the posessions i worked so hard to get. i should also add that i couldn't get insurance because the ranch was in a remote area so i could have lost everything without any way of replacing it. i understand what you're saying but i was in a similar situation and i chose life.

what were the pictures for?