Newt blames the Katrina victims

darkcrowdarkcrow Posts: 1,102
edited March 2007 in A Moving Train
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/03/04/newt-blames-the-victims-of-katrina/ (for the audio)

(Newt Gingrich, speaking at CPAC) blamed the residents of New Orleans' 9th Ward for a "failure of citizenship," by being "so uneducated and so unprepared, they literally couldn't get out of the way of a hurricane."

And he called for a "deep investigation" into this "failure of citizenship."

Here's the full quote:

How can you have the mess we have in New Orleans, and not have had deep investigations of the federal government, the state government, the city government, and the failure of citizenship in the Ninth Ward, where 22,000 people were so uneducated and so unprepared, they literally couldn't get out of the way of a hurricane. (emphasis original)
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Comments

  • ledveddermanledvedderman Posts: 7,761
    Wow, I would like to say I'm surprised.
  • I totally agree. And I despise Newt Gingrich. So I'm surprised too.
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    Not that I'm a big fan of Newt, but there where buses provided for people to take, out of New Orleans, if they wished to evacuate prior to the hurricane reaching the city. So as far as people being stuck in NOLA they decided to ride out the storm there so they do bear some of the responsibility for their situation during the aftermath. Their fault in the whole mess of the aftermath is insignificant though compared to the blame that all levels of government have to bear. Lastly, while the people of the 9th Ward made the decision to stay I think it's a bit callous of Newt to even insinuate that these people should really be held equally responsible along with local, state, and federal government officials and agencies for this diseaster.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    im a big believer that a lot of americans are really dumb. though im not sure it's lack of education and preparation that caused this... probly more so lack of money. not everyone can afford to fold up, drive cross country, and check into a hotel room for a week. these people took a chance and probaly would have been fine if those levees hadnt broken.
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    darkcrow wrote:
    http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/03/04/newt-blames-the-victims-of-katrina/ (for the audio)

    (Newt Gingrich, speaking at CPAC) blamed the residents of New Orleans' 9th Ward for a "failure of citizenship," by being "so uneducated and so unprepared, they literally couldn't get out of the way of a hurricane."

    And he called for a "deep investigation" into this "failure of citizenship."

    Here's the full quote:

    How can you have the mess we have in New Orleans, and not have had deep investigations of the federal government, the state government, the city government, and the failure of citizenship in the Ninth Ward, where 22,000 people were so uneducated and so unprepared, they literally couldn't get out of the way of a hurricane. (emphasis original)

    prior to the hurricane; the news interviewed several people that refused to evacuate. the order was given to evacuate; but these people were going to fight the hurricane themselves. what other conclusions could you come to? the people are either stupid; ignorant; or uneducated.
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    mammasan wrote:
    Not that I'm a big fan of Newt, but there where buses provided for people to take, out of New Orleans, if they wished to evacuate prior to the hurricane reaching the city. So as far as people being stuck in NOLA they decided to ride out the storm there so they do bear some of the responsibility for their situation during the aftermath. Their fault in the whole mess of the aftermath is insignificant though compared to the blame that all levels of government have to bear. Lastly, while the people of the 9th Ward made the decision to stay I think it's a bit callous of Newt to even insinuate that these people should really be held equally responsible along with local, state, and federal government officials and agencies for this diseaster.

    you stopped short of saying that bush caused the hurricane to divert attention from the war.
    can you explain what responsabilities government has in natural disasters? in a disaster of this size; what could the government have done differently? especially after sending so much money to the tsunami victims. how much of the budget was spent trying to evacuate those who refused to leave? if the city was evacuated as ordered; the billions spent on post evacuation would have been spent on rebuilding.
    when the government runs out of money it's because you don't want to pay higher taxes.
  • I don't really get this "You shoulda left, dumbass" point of view. People worked their entire lives for what they owned, for a home that supported them and their family, and items that to them would never be able to be replaced. So you had two options, especially if you were poorer. You either got to leave everything behind, with the possibility of losing it to the storm or the looting. Or you can stay, hope that the storm is either exaggerated or by some miracle that it diverts its path. I don't argue that they should have left, I don't think even the katrina victims would argue that. I just think there was more to it than them being to uneduated and stupid to get out.
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    you stopped short of saying that bush caused the hurricane to divert attention from the war.
    can you explain what responsabilities government has in natural disasters? in a disaster of this size; what could the government have done differently? especially after sending so much money to the tsunami victims. how much of the budget was spent trying to evacuate those who refused to leave? if the city was evacuated as ordered; the billions spent on post evacuation would have been spent on rebuilding.
    when the government runs out of money it's because you don't want to pay higher taxes.

    they could have actually provided the requested funding for those levies. people knew this was a possibility but the government did nothing to fix it. perhaps if we werent pouring billions into worthless interventions in other countries, we'd have the funds to do things like that. shit, we could have had the army engineers do it and kept that precious military funding up.
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    I don't really get this "You shoulda left, dumbass" point of view. People worked their entire lives for what they owned, for a home that supported them and their family, and items that to them would never be able to be replaced. So you had two options, especially if you were poorer. You either got to leave everything behind, with the possibility of losing it to the storm or the looting. Or you can stay, hope that the storm is either exaggerated or by some miracle that it diverts its path. I don't argue that they should have left, I don't think even the katrina victims would argue that. I just think there was more to it than them being to uneduated and stupid to get out.

    so the biggest storm in history is headed for you and you stop to think whether you should gamble your life over some posessions? i can see your point to some extent but they should've left. especially after seeing the devastation of the tsunami. when they chose to stay they took responsability for themselves.
  • they could have actually provided the requested funding for those levies. people knew this was a possibility but the government did nothing to fix it. perhaps if we werent pouring billions into worthless interventions in other countries, we'd have the funds to do things like that. shit, we could have had the army engineers do it and kept that precious military funding up.

    Hehe...they tried that. But then "Save our Wetlands" sued them in 1977 and won. Thirty years later, the Wetlands finished the job.
  • so the biggest storm in history is headed for you and you stop to think whether you should gamble your life over some posessions? i can see your point to some extent but they should've left. especially after seeing the devastation of the tsunami. when they chose to stay they took responsability for themselves.



    That's very easy for a wealthy person such as yourself to say that. To some of these people, these possessions were all they had to show for a life spent working. So, leave it all behind to go somewhere where you dont have anyone waiting for you, or try to ride out the storm. And it wasn't just a few petty possessions that could be easily replaced. It was houses that people spent their whole life paying for just to call their own. In a society where your success is based on your possessions, I can understand why many would choose to ride out the storm, hoping that it's not as bad as it seems to be.



    By the way, I wasn't trying to use your wealth against you.
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    they could have actually provided the requested funding for those levies. people knew this was a possibility but the government did nothing to fix it. perhaps if we werent pouring billions into worthless interventions in other countries, we'd have the funds to do things like that. shit, we could have had the army engineers do it and kept that precious military funding up.

    i've got projects in my state the government should take care of too. and what about the other levies throughout the country. and since you brought it up; the people knew the levies wouldn't hold and THEY STILL STAYED; making them bigger dumbass's than implied. i don't think it was very smart to build a city below sea level AT THE EDGE OF THE OCEAN and rebuilding it when the ice caps are melting is even stupider. you expect so much from government but you don't want government in your business. make up your bloody mind.
  • blackredyellowblackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    so the biggest storm in history is headed for you and you stop to think whether you should gamble your life over some posessions? i can see your point to some extent but they should've left. especially after seeing the devastation of the tsunami. when they chose to stay they took responsability for themselves.


    The question is, where were these thousands of people going to go, and how were they going to get there?

    Hotels in surrounding states were full (even if they could afford rooms at the increased rates), Highways were back up for hours (not that many of these people had cars), and there were not enough shelters (the biggest one turned out to be a huge crisis on it's own).

    I'm not saying the people are totally blameless for staying, but you make is sound so easy just to up and leave everything that they ever owned, when a lot of these people stayed and lived through numerous storms and evacuations.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    That's very easy for a wealthy person such as yourself to say that. To some of these people, these possessions were all they had to show for a life spent working. So, leave it all behind to go somewhere where you dont have anyone waiting for you, or try to ride out the storm. And it wasn't just a few petty possessions that could be easily replaced. It was houses that people spent their whole life paying for just to call their own. In a society where your success is based on your possessions, I can understand why many would choose to ride out the storm, hoping that it's not as bad as it seems to be.



    By the way, I wasn't trying to use your wealth against you.

    i was born dirt poor. at times i worked 3 jobs swearing i'd never be poor again. but when a wildfire threatened my ranch i took pictures of my possessions and evacuated. i left everything behind. i've got some great pictures from that fire and it was stopped a mile from my house but i was in the same situation and chose saving my life over the posessions i worked so hard to get. i should also add that i couldn't get insurance because the ranch was in a remote area so i could have lost everything without any way of replacing it. i understand what you're saying but i was in a similar situation and i chose life.
  • i was born dirt poor. at times i worked 3 jobs swearing i'd never be poor again. but when a wildfire threatened my ranch i took pictures of my possessions and evacuated. i left everything behind. i've got some great pictures from that fire and it was stopped a mile from my house but i was in the same situation and chose saving my life over the posessions i worked so hard to get. i should also add that i couldn't get insurance because the ranch was in a remote area so i could have lost everything without any way of replacing it. i understand what you're saying but i was in a similar situation and i chose life.



    But you gotta understand that not everyone would. and that the situation isn't as black as white as "The smart ones left, the dumb ones stayed".



    By the way, what does this guy expect to happen with a "deep investigation into failure of citizenship"?
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    i've got projects in my state the government should take care of too. and what about the other levies throughout the country. and since you brought it up; the people knew the levies wouldn't hold and THEY STILL STAYED; making them bigger dumbass's than implied. i don't think it was very smart to build a city below sea level AT THE EDGE OF THE OCEAN and rebuilding it when the ice caps are melting is even stupider. you expect so much from government but you don't want government in your business. make up your bloody mind.

    the people didnt know the levies would give. scientists had told the government but they'd done their damndest to make sure no one else knew about it. yeah, new orleans is not the most stable city, but it serves a very important purpose to this entire country as the gateway to the mississippi and most of middle america. having a city there on the mouth of the country's largest river and only inland access to the ocean is critical. we all benefit from that.

    i want government to provide the services it was enacted to provide... chiefly regulation and streamlining of interstate commerce. it provides services to its citizens and it should. that's why we have it. but yes, it has no business sticking its nose in my private life. but things like public parks and general municipal services are the exact purpose of government. that is there job. so there is no contradiction in expecting government to do what it's supposed to do to maintain roads and facilities while staying the fuck out of my private life.
  • By the way, what does this guy expect to happen with a "deep investigation into failure of citizenship"?

    The same thing that happens with a "deep investigation into the failure of government" -- nothing.
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Hehe...they tried that. But then "Save our Wetlands" sued them in 1977 and won. Thirty years later, the Wetlands finished the job.

    sued who? i recall reading somewhere that levee projects were proposed to congress several times in the 90s and voted down, nothing to do with judicial injunctions.
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    Did Newt go on to comment on the smart ones who left and still have nothing to come home to? I didn't think so.

    That's like saying I told the US government that when they went into Iraq they wouldn't be able to control the people. Whatever Newt!
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    i was born dirt poor. at times i worked 3 jobs swearing i'd never be poor again. but when a wildfire threatened my ranch i took pictures of my possessions and evacuated. i left everything behind. i've got some great pictures from that fire and it was stopped a mile from my house but i was in the same situation and chose saving my life over the posessions i worked so hard to get. i should also add that i couldn't get insurance because the ranch was in a remote area so i could have lost everything without any way of replacing it. i understand what you're saying but i was in a similar situation and i chose life.

    what were the pictures for?
  • The same thing that happens with a "deep investigation into the failure of government" -- nothing.


    That's what I figured. What you gonna do? Throw em in jail? From what I've seen and read, that'll atleast give them better shelter than the FEMA trailers.
  • sued who? i recall reading somewhere that levee projects were proposed to congress several times in the 90s and voted down, nothing to do with judicial injunctions.

    In 1977 they sued the Corp.

    "The Army Corps of Engineers also designed a Lake Pontchartrain Hurricane Barrier to shield the city with flood gates like those that protect the Netherlands from the North Sea. Congress provided funding and construction began in 1971, but work stopped in 1977 when a federal judge ruled, in a suit brought by Save Our Wetlands, that the Corps' environmental impact statement was deficient. In 1985, after nearly a decade of court battles, the Corps scrapped the plan, and decided on reinforcing the city’s levee system instead."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_preparedness_for_New_Orleans#Late_20th_century_hurricanes
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    In 1977 they sued the Corp.

    "The Army Corps of Engineers also designed a Lake Pontchartrain Hurricane Barrier to shield the city with flood gates like those that protect the Netherlands from the North Sea. Congress provided funding and construction began in 1971, but work stopped in 1977 when a federal judge ruled, in a suit brought by Save Our Wetlands, that the Corps' environmental impact statement was deficient. In 1985, after nearly a decade of court battles, the Corps scrapped the plan, and decided on reinforcing the city’s levee system instead."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_preparedness_for_New_Orleans#Late_20th_century_hurricanes

    that sucks. but it still doesn't explain why subsequent projects to reinforce the levees were shot down.
  • RainDogRainDog Posts: 1,824
    New Orleans has about as much use for Gingrich's input as we do for a new subway system.
  • RainDogRainDog Posts: 1,824
    In 1977 they sued the Corp.

    "The Army Corps of Engineers also designed a Lake Pontchartrain Hurricane Barrier to shield the city with flood gates like those that protect the Netherlands from the North Sea. Congress provided funding and construction began in 1971, but work stopped in 1977 when a federal judge ruled, in a suit brought by Save Our Wetlands, that the Corps' environmental impact statement was deficient. In 1985, after nearly a decade of court battles, the Corps scrapped the plan, and decided on reinforcing the city’s levee system instead."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_preparedness_for_New_Orleans#Late_20th_century_hurricanes
    Levees help, but so do the wetlands. The question is, how can we utilize both when often the strengthening of one leads to the weakening of the other?
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    what were the pictures for?

    possible FEMA relief. and since i was leaving a lot of guns behind; i wanted record of them in case they were stolen.
    the pics of the fire should be able to be sold and i'm looking into that. i've got mines exploding with fireballs going thousands of feet into the air.
  • that sucks. but it still doesn't explain why subsequent projects to reinforce the levees were shot down.

    They weren't. Those "projects" were still going on when Katrina hit.
  • RainDog wrote:
    Levees help, but so do the wetlands. The question is, how can we utilize both when often the strengthening of one leads to the weakening of the other?

    How can you utilize a wetland? Well, you've already seen how wetlands can be utilized. Your city, for the most part, maximized the usage of wetlands over the usage of levees. Your town flooded. The wetlands served to make that flood less severe. So if you're happy with the results, stick with the wetlands.

    You could, however, look beyond both and realize that neither wetlands nor levies are required to prevent a flood of that nature. You could look at more advanced drainage systems and dikes. Furthermore, you'd be wise to actually reclaim areas of the gulf by building off-shore barriers that suppress storm surges. But that's not going to happen here. Your town seems to be demanding more levies. And I'm not sure it's ready to give up its wetlands either.
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    But you gotta understand that not everyone would. and that the situation isn't as black as white as "The smart ones left, the dumb ones stayed".



    By the way, what does this guy expect to happen with a "deep investigation into failure of citizenship"?

    waste more taxpayer money i suppose.
    when in a similar situation; i evacuated and slept in my truck. if i lost everything there would have been disaster loans and other help. my responsability was to save my life; and get out of the way for those sent to help. the firefighters needed to concentrate on the fire; not the hold out in the cabin on the hill. this is what happened with katrina. the attention was diverted to saving the people instead of controling the situation.
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    possible FEMA relief. and since i was leaving a lot of guns behind; i wanted record of them in case they were stolen.
    the pics of the fire should be able to be sold and i'm looking into that. i've got mines exploding with fireballs going thousands of feet into the air.

    ah, so you were expecting the government to replace your possessions? yet the new orleans residents are stupid for wanting the same thing?
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