Some of you people are pathetic and will do anything to defend illegal aliens under the guise that they are here to make a better life for their families.
i believe obama is quite flawed, but this is exactly the type of swiftboating that mccain feels is being done to him right now.
you take a specific instance....you have enough people shout about it...and that makes it so.
don't get me wrong...i think the us has an immigration problem that exceeds any other country in the world...but they aren't all bad b/c your boss' kid died. christ...think about how many drunken us citizens kill innocents every day.
i'm not defending everyone here illegally, but you must keep some perspective. if you don't allow yourself to do that, then you limit yourself.
People don't get to choose what laws they should follow or not follow.
The smart ones do. My life, my choices, my freedom, and my (and my family's) well-being are more important than the law. In fact, the smart ones put the law in the same rubbish pale as Santa and the Easter Bunny. Now I'm not saying there aren't fundamental and timeless rules for humanity to live by, but that is a very short and commonsensical list -- don't kill, don't steal, in general treat others the way you'd like to be treated. These people realize that their own family's well being is phenomenonally more important than some arbitrary law, more important than an imaginary line drawn in the sand, and for that I respect them more than all of the people combined who think we ought to herd all the illegals onto trains and send them back to their country.
Frankly, it is scary to me how many people, even on a (generally liberal) Pearl Jam message board, seem to succumb to the interests of our police state before protecting their own interests.
And yes we should also try to protect our borders, but that is a federal job -- not a job for Maricopa County's sheriff -- according to the constitution.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
People don't get to choose what laws they should follow or not follow.
Ever sped in your life? Ever downloaded a song off of Napster? Had a smoke when you were 16? Drank before the age of 21? Puffed on the magic dragon?
While this isn't as grand as illegally coming into a country, if you answer "yes" to any of those questions, you too are guilty of trying to choose what laws you should follow or not follow.
Maybe you don't follow the news but over the last few years our streets have been invaded by illegal aliens protesting our laws that they chose to break. Since the laws were not in their favor they demanded that we change the laws to suit the thousands that marched and the millions that are here illegally. Yes the vast majority were from Mexico, but there were illegal aliens from many countries out there.
So when they were out there demanding that we change our laws while they marched carrying Mexican flags their battle cry was "Si, se puede", which means "yes, we can" in English. So since Obama chose to adopt this common war cry I believe he is catering to a group of people who has a huge part of their population here in this country breaking our laws. They chose to break the laws. They chose to come here risking being deported. They chose to not follow the proper channels for work and possibly citizenship. They deserve nothing other than an arrest on their record and a trip back to where they came from, and while we are at it we should send that bill to whatever government they have nationality with.
Most "illegals" were brought here "legally" under work visas. Some of have expired, making them illegal.
I dont think they are going to walk back to mexico from Chicago, and they can make themselves 'legal' again by renewing their work visas.
Maybe you don't follow the news but over the last few years our streets have been invaded by illegal aliens protesting our laws that they chose to break.
way to get worked by the MSM
btw, the "news" in the "last few years" haven't exactly been journalism's finest hours so some perspective is needed as far as what amounts to crisis and what is just another scoop for the networks
1. You are taking an extremely small sample of the population and making a generalization from it.
2. The story is from Fox News so it can be thrown in the trash heap to begin with.
3. This is a problem stemming from SF's ordinances. The US uses more drugs than any other country in the world and always will... so people (Yes, including illegal immigrants) will always be trying to get the drugs in the country.
4. As long as they aren't dealing narcotics, they are doing a good deed!
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
Do you have evidence of this? So the thousands who cross our border illegally just didn't have a ride?
There is plenty of proof pf this. I am on my cell phone now, and can't post links, but I will later.
But companies, farms, even the government hire foreign workers to come to the us to do jobs, harvest, etc. They can pay lower wages to those people, which keeps the cost of our food low, and also keeps our taxes low because the govt doesn't have to pay higher wages.
The problem is, many of those jobs are sesaonal, so workers have to find other jobs, or go back to their country of origin. When they pay into social security, they should get those benefits. Why shouldn't they?
I won't deny that people sneak across the border, but that is only one way people are here illegally. People can fly in, be brought here, and simply have their work visas expire, making them illegal. Many illegal immigrants are eastern european, llike polish, lithuanian, russian, etc. Many mexicans come here during harvest season, legally, to pick crops, then go back to mexico for their harvest, or find jobs in the offseason. Those legal people live here, work, and have families. If their visas expire, they become illegal, but have children who are legal.
There are plenty of stories of people who are forced to leave their families because their paperwork was not up to date.
I'm sorry that incident hapenned to your colleague. Its a teribble situation. I just hate when people generalize, and think the only answer to that problem is to build a big electric fence to keep the illegalls out. There are too many sides to consider to think that simmply "border patrol" will fix the probs.
Ever sped in your life? Ever downloaded a song off of Napster? Had a smoke when you were 16? Drank before the age of 21? Puffed on the magic dragon?
While this isn't as grand as illegally coming into a country, if you answer "yes" to any of those questions, you too are guilty of trying to choose what laws you should follow or not follow.
And if I were caught I'd expect to be punished. I wouldn't go demanding the laws change because I didn't feel like following them. It goes back to the old saying if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
Go make demands from any other country on this Earth if you aren't a citizen and are there illegally, see where it gets you.
Comments
i believe obama is quite flawed, but this is exactly the type of swiftboating that mccain feels is being done to him right now.
you take a specific instance....you have enough people shout about it...and that makes it so.
don't get me wrong...i think the us has an immigration problem that exceeds any other country in the world...but they aren't all bad b/c your boss' kid died. christ...think about how many drunken us citizens kill innocents every day.
i'm not defending everyone here illegally, but you must keep some perspective. if you don't allow yourself to do that, then you limit yourself.
The smart ones do. My life, my choices, my freedom, and my (and my family's) well-being are more important than the law. In fact, the smart ones put the law in the same rubbish pale as Santa and the Easter Bunny. Now I'm not saying there aren't fundamental and timeless rules for humanity to live by, but that is a very short and commonsensical list -- don't kill, don't steal, in general treat others the way you'd like to be treated. These people realize that their own family's well being is phenomenonally more important than some arbitrary law, more important than an imaginary line drawn in the sand, and for that I respect them more than all of the people combined who think we ought to herd all the illegals onto trains and send them back to their country.
Frankly, it is scary to me how many people, even on a (generally liberal) Pearl Jam message board, seem to succumb to the interests of our police state before protecting their own interests.
And yes we should also try to protect our borders, but that is a federal job -- not a job for Maricopa County's sheriff -- according to the constitution.
Ever sped in your life? Ever downloaded a song off of Napster? Had a smoke when you were 16? Drank before the age of 21? Puffed on the magic dragon?
While this isn't as grand as illegally coming into a country, if you answer "yes" to any of those questions, you too are guilty of trying to choose what laws you should follow or not follow.
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
Most "illegals" were brought here "legally" under work visas. Some of have expired, making them illegal.
I dont think they are going to walk back to mexico from Chicago, and they can make themselves 'legal' again by renewing their work visas.
Nuclear fission
way to get worked by the MSM
btw, the "news" in the "last few years" haven't exactly been journalism's finest hours so some perspective is needed as far as what amounts to crisis and what is just another scoop for the networks
Do you have evidence of this? So the thousands who cross our border illegally just didn't have a ride?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,374803,00.html
I buy my weed from a citizen....im sure you'll be happy to know that.
1. You are taking an extremely small sample of the population and making a generalization from it.
2. The story is from Fox News so it can be thrown in the trash heap to begin with.
3. This is a problem stemming from SF's ordinances. The US uses more drugs than any other country in the world and always will... so people (Yes, including illegal immigrants) will always be trying to get the drugs in the country.
4. As long as they aren't dealing narcotics, they are doing a good deed!
There is plenty of proof pf this. I am on my cell phone now, and can't post links, but I will later.
But companies, farms, even the government hire foreign workers to come to the us to do jobs, harvest, etc. They can pay lower wages to those people, which keeps the cost of our food low, and also keeps our taxes low because the govt doesn't have to pay higher wages.
The problem is, many of those jobs are sesaonal, so workers have to find other jobs, or go back to their country of origin. When they pay into social security, they should get those benefits. Why shouldn't they?
I won't deny that people sneak across the border, but that is only one way people are here illegally. People can fly in, be brought here, and simply have their work visas expire, making them illegal. Many illegal immigrants are eastern european, llike polish, lithuanian, russian, etc. Many mexicans come here during harvest season, legally, to pick crops, then go back to mexico for their harvest, or find jobs in the offseason. Those legal people live here, work, and have families. If their visas expire, they become illegal, but have children who are legal.
There are plenty of stories of people who are forced to leave their families because their paperwork was not up to date.
I'm sorry that incident hapenned to your colleague. Its a teribble situation. I just hate when people generalize, and think the only answer to that problem is to build a big electric fence to keep the illegalls out. There are too many sides to consider to think that simmply "border patrol" will fix the probs.
Nuclear fission
And if I were caught I'd expect to be punished. I wouldn't go demanding the laws change because I didn't feel like following them. It goes back to the old saying if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
Go make demands from any other country on this Earth if you aren't a citizen and are there illegally, see where it gets you.