I never said that ID is a legit science. I was merely pointing out that ID and Creationism are two different psuedo-sciences.
gotcha. the differences are all just pretense though. ID would not exist if creationism hadn't been bitch slapped into oblivion. it's just an attempt to sneak creationism in without seeming as hopelessly moronic as they are.
and what is a day to God? 24 hours? 1 million years?
Yea, if the sun is what humans use to measure days and the sun wasn't created until day 4 according to the Genesis story, how can anyone be so sure that the things that happened on days 1-3 actually only took a day each?
Again I disagree. ID at the very least always for the acceptance of scientific data while Young Earth Creationism does not and Gap Creationism, while accepting scientific data on the age of the universe and planets, does not accept the theory of evolution. Id developed from Creationist theories but does not simply ignore mountains of scientific data that points to man's evolution and the evolution of our universe and planet. That would be like saying that football and rugby are the same sport simply because they have some similarities.
All of ID's theories (and I use that word very loosely) were made up to fit the story of the bible, there is no fact in it. The amusing thing is FTE had to use parts of actual evolution to make their sudo-scientific data seem legit. However, they turned micro evolution into macro evolution but within the same species for all living things instead of how real evolution works. The need for them to speed up the evolutionary process and keep it within the species is because they think the earth just isn't that old and that God created man in his own image.
There is no science in how they altered evolution, but it sounds real good to the bible belters. ID is just another way creationists are trying to dumb down America and make the believers keep believing that "God did it", instead of ever having to digest the idea that we may have actually come from apes.
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I saw an amazing PBS/Nova documentary on one of the recent "evolution in school's trials". One people on the evolution team did some digging into this book and they found an early maunscript, where the word creation had been replaced by the word intelligent design, in all but a couple of spots. I think the author basically did a "find/replace" with Word and missed a couple of occurances. You can read about it hear (search for "Cdesign proponentsists") http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/3416_id.html
The best part of the show was when they did a recreation of the trial and got one of the main supporters of intelligent design to admit that under his definition of a scientific theory that astrology would also be considered scientific.
The problem with Intelligent Design is that it is not scientific.They don't use a real scienfic method where a researcher will wonder how something works, come up with a possible hypothisis, then experiment and research to see if thier hypthesis holds true (and if it doesn't they report their findings either way). Instead they start with the exact answer they want and then look for evidence that supports the answer they wanted in the first place.
I saw an amazing PBS/Nova documentary on one of the recent "evolution in school's trials". One people on the evolution team did some digging into this book and they found an early maunscript, where the word creation had been replaced by the word intelligent design, in all but a couple of spots. I think the author basically did a "find/replace" with Word and missed a couple of occurances. You can read about it hear (search for "Cdesign proponentsists") http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/3416_id.html
The best part of the show was when they did a recreation of the trial and got one of the main supporters of intelligent design to admit that under his definition of a scientific theory that astrology would also be considered scientific.
The problem with Intelligent Design is that it is not scientific.They don't use a real scienfic method where a researcher will wonder how something works, come up with a possible hypothisis, then experiment and research to see if thier hypthesis holds true (and if it doesn't they report their findings either way). Instead they start with the exact answer they want and then look for evidence that supports the answer they wanted in the first place.
...
You know.. if I want to learn about Creatio... er... Intelligent Design, I should be able to go down to my local CHURCH and learn all I want about it.
...
And 'NOVA:Intelligent Design on Trial' went a long way in explaining WHY and HOW Intelligent Design is a re-packaging of Creationism.
I thought the Flagellar Bacterium part was also interesting.
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Hail, Hail!!!
Yea, if the sun is what humans use to measure days and the sun wasn't created until day 4 according to the Genesis story, how can anyone be so sure that the things that happened on days 1-3 actually only took a day each?
Another excellent point....and 24 hour days are not the norm on other planets.
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
Another excellent point....and 24 hour days are not the norm on other planets.
This is the sort of thing that bothers me about religion. I was raised in a Lutheran home, and went to church and Sunday school every week where I was told that the Bible is the WORD OF GOD and it is all true. We can be sure that Jesus died to save us because it's in the Bible, and since it's the word of God, it must be true.
Then all the stuff that is totally ridiculous such as making the Earth in a few days, and Noah and his arc get all sort of leniency. Oh a day meant something different back then, etc. If the Bible is the word of God, and it is all true, why is some of the stuff clearly not true?
...
You know.. if I want to learn about Creatio... er... Intelligent Design, I should be able to go down to my local CHURCH and learn all I want about it.
Exactly and if a school wants to teach kids that there is a debate going on in the world between creation and evolution (which was a reason some people on the NOVA show thought that intelligent design should be taught) then teachers and students can discuss it in social studies class. Because it is not a science.
...
And 'NOVA:Intelligent Design on Trial' went a long way in explaining WHY and HOW Intelligent Design is a re-packaging of Creationism.
I thought the Flagellar Bacterium part was also interesting.
The explination they gave of intelligent design was quite well done. Before that I always thought intelligent design was basically the scientific view of evolution, but god did it all the way along (which is fine, not science but fine makes sense as a belief). But they pretty clearly explained that it is not really the case at all.
Wait what?? Moses wrote down Genesis?? This is the first I've ever heard of that.
"Genesis is the first book of a larger work, the first five books of the Old Testament, called the Pentateuch, the authorship of which has traditionally been ascribed to Moses."
"The Ryrie Study Bible King James Version" Charles Caldwell Ryrie, Th.D, Ph.D
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
All of ID's theories (and I use that word very loosely) were made up to fit the story of the bible, there is no fact in it. The amusing thing is FTE had to use parts of actual evolution to make their sudo-scientific data seem legit. However, they turned micro evolution into macro evolution but within the same species for all living things instead of how real evolution works. The need for them to speed up the evolutionary process and keep it within the species is because they think the earth just isn't that old and that God created man in his own image.
There is no science in how they altered evolution, but it sounds real good to the bible belters. ID is just another way creationists are trying to dumb down America and make the believers keep believing that "God did it", instead of ever having to digest the idea that we may have actually come from apes.
I never said that ID was a science I merely stated that there was a difference between Creationism and ID. I think that both are pretty much bullshit but that's just me.
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gotcha. the differences are all just pretense though. ID would not exist if creationism hadn't been bitch slapped into oblivion. it's just an attempt to sneak creationism in without seeming as hopelessly moronic as they are.
Yea, if the sun is what humans use to measure days and the sun wasn't created until day 4 according to the Genesis story, how can anyone be so sure that the things that happened on days 1-3 actually only took a day each?
All of ID's theories (and I use that word very loosely) were made up to fit the story of the bible, there is no fact in it. The amusing thing is FTE had to use parts of actual evolution to make their sudo-scientific data seem legit. However, they turned micro evolution into macro evolution but within the same species for all living things instead of how real evolution works. The need for them to speed up the evolutionary process and keep it within the species is because they think the earth just isn't that old and that God created man in his own image.
There is no science in how they altered evolution, but it sounds real good to the bible belters. ID is just another way creationists are trying to dumb down America and make the believers keep believing that "God did it", instead of ever having to digest the idea that we may have actually come from apes.
Exactly my point. Thank you.
This vid is very informative also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRsWAjvQSg
You know.. if I want to learn about Creatio... er... Intelligent Design, I should be able to go down to my local CHURCH and learn all I want about it.
...
And 'NOVA:Intelligent Design on Trial' went a long way in explaining WHY and HOW Intelligent Design is a re-packaging of Creationism.
I thought the Flagellar Bacterium part was also interesting.
Hail, Hail!!!
This is the sort of thing that bothers me about religion. I was raised in a Lutheran home, and went to church and Sunday school every week where I was told that the Bible is the WORD OF GOD and it is all true. We can be sure that Jesus died to save us because it's in the Bible, and since it's the word of God, it must be true.
Then all the stuff that is totally ridiculous such as making the Earth in a few days, and Noah and his arc get all sort of leniency. Oh a day meant something different back then, etc. If the Bible is the word of God, and it is all true, why is some of the stuff clearly not true?
Exactly and if a school wants to teach kids that there is a debate going on in the world between creation and evolution (which was a reason some people on the NOVA show thought that intelligent design should be taught) then teachers and students can discuss it in social studies class. Because it is not a science.
The explination they gave of intelligent design was quite well done. Before that I always thought intelligent design was basically the scientific view of evolution, but god did it all the way along (which is fine, not science but fine makes sense as a belief). But they pretty clearly explained that it is not really the case at all.
"The Ryrie Study Bible King James Version" Charles Caldwell Ryrie, Th.D, Ph.D
I never said that ID was a science I merely stated that there was a difference between Creationism and ID. I think that both are pretty much bullshit but that's just me.