Is Israel's recent actions in Gaza a war crime?

FiveB247x

Terrorists do not represent or work on behalf of the state of Palestine.. on the other hand, Israel's army works on behalf of the state of Israel... see the difference?

miller8966

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

I guess the same could be said if reprecussions came to American from Iraq I guess....which I would never like to see...but that statement bites both ways Miller....

i see your logic..btu they kidnapped a soldier and were firing rockets into israeli neighborhoods. SO whatever.....

El_Kabong

miller8966 wrote:

The palestinians started this incursion...what you reap is what you sow

they did?? i thought the intifada started when sharon marched into the 3rd holiest place in islam w/ 1,000 armed men??

miller8966

El_Kabong wrote:

they did?? i thought the intifada started when sharon marched into the 3rd holiest place in islam w/ 1,000 armed men??

the intifada could have been avoided if Arafrat would have accepted the terms offered to him before the intifada.

He didnt...

Now hes dead. lol

mammasan

miller8966 wrote:

i see your logic..btu they kidnapped a soldier and were firing rockets into israeli neighborhoods. SO whatever.....

Understood and Israel has every right to secure the freedom of that soldier and defend itself from terrorists, but at times they have themselves purpotrated acts of terrorism against the Palestinian people. Bombing civilian locations such as electric plants and universities is an act of terror. By doing this they are no better than the terrorist who blow themselves up on buses.

MrBrian

mammasan wrote:

I completely support Israel right to find and rescue the kidnapped soldier, but I do believe that they are extremely close to crossing the line between rescue mission and just plain open hostility. I know that they are dealing with individuals who do not respect the sanctity of this soldier or any Israeli's life but Israel has to be above that or they become no better than the terrorists who abducted this soldier. That pretty much sums up my entire feeling about the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. I have always believed that Israel had the right to defend itself and it's people from viceious bombings by Palestinian terrorists but at times it was hard to differentiate who was the terrorists because Israel would perpetrate acts just as horrorable as say Hamas. Just my $.02.

So you would also completely support the palestianians trying to get back it's many soldiers and innocent civilians out of israeli hands? Israel has locked up many more palestinian people. So they (israel) should look at themselves first.

anyway I kinda find that israels entire existance is a war crime.

mammasan

MrBrian wrote:

So you would also completely support the palestianians trying to get back it's many soldiers and innocent civilians out of israeli hands? Israel has locked up many more palestinian people. So they (israel) should look at themselves first.

anyway I kinda find that israels entire existance is a war crime.

I would completely support Palestine's right to retreive any of the improperly prisoned and/or kidnapped citizens/soldiers that are in Israeli hands.

thankyougrandma

pjalive21 wrote:

so because they are terrorist they shouldnt be held under the same accountability as the Israelies?

so you are justifying their actions, because they are terrorist we should expect this from them and not hold them accountable?

Damn i'm tired of these "you're justifying their actions" blablabla, i'm not justifying, you sure love to put words in someone's mouth do you?

I'm not supporting, i'm condemning, i also condemn Isreali attacks on electrical facility and such an invasion of a territory, again, they have ALL THE RIGHTS and means to defend themselves, they do not have the right to violate international laws.

Do they have to bomb a university ? No, it's a war crime.

Do they have to bomb some electrical facility? No, it's a war crime

Disturbing civillians peace of mind by flying into foreign land at night and having a siege over a territory provisions, is also a war crime.

Invade a foreign territory with tanks and planes without any kind of authorization, here's another crime.

All this in the name of A STATE, not from some kind of terrorist group, you're the one who's making the comparison between both, i would expect a lot better from a government than from a terrorist group, you're just making them sounding the same, they apply to the same rule according to you, which i strongly disagree.

They're far from defending themselves, it's an all out attack, and leading to more hate from Palestinians over Isreal and will lead to more isolate missile launch into Isreal etc etc, they need to take another approach (and fast), they already tried the terrorist approach to solve the terrorist problem and as of today, it didn't work. The part that make me sick, is the fact that we officially support these acts, makes me sick...

thankyougrandma

London Calling wrote:

i dont think there is much point to this discussion, because Israel has been violoting human rights for decades, with the support of the US government. Nothing is gonna change, unless the UN condemantion is backed up with punishemnt (sanctions etc etc.), but this wont happen because the US always veto and votes. i mean i've heard a lot of condmenationabout Iran wanting nuclear weapons, North Korea testing missiles from the US government, but how come Israel is allowed to do whatever it wants. Israel has a nuclear programme, violates human rights, regularly fires across international borders. Surely they are the destabilising factor in the MIddle East that we hear so much about.
In not so many words the Israeli government (and those who support their actions) are a bunch of dicks.

agree.............

thankyougrandma

The fact is, if a country would support and armed Palestine like the world feed Isreal with an army, there wouldn't be any terrorist in the Gaza bank...

DPrival78

this recent situation did not start with the palestinian kidnapping of an israeli soldier.

this, which was quickly rammed down the memory hole, happened first:

"Beach strike shakes Hamas cease-fire"
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/09/mideast/

MrBrian

DPrival78 wrote:

this recent situation did not start with the palestinian kidnapping of an israeli soldier.

this, which was quickly rammed down the memory hole, happened first:

"Beach strike shakes Hamas cease-fire"
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/09/mideast/

The beach bombing was quickly forgotten, world cups on.

miller8966

MrBrian wrote:

The beach bombing was quickly forgotten, world cups on.

Id love to leave it in Israels hands...

PaperPlates

mammasan wrote:

Well for arguements sake let's say you are both.

My point was, that even just for the sake of arguing,as far as who is to blame for the rooto problems, theres no real answer. Its a "which came first the chicken or the egg" situation.


My thoughts on it are that bombing or taking out relevant social structures to weaken the infrastructure of an already imbalanced country isnt a war crime, its just good strategy. When you intentionally kill civilians just for the sake of killing them, with no other meritable purpose, thats a war crime. Thats terrorism. There is a difference between "war" and "terrorism", and the rules of engagement are polar opposites.

Why not discuss or brain strorm how to remedy the situation rather than categorize or spend energy figuring out "who to blame"? Im honestly not informed enough to offer anything even remotely resembling a workable idea on how to fix them. Sometimes, I think the best route WE as outsiders could take is to just say to hell with them, and let them kill each other off. But, unfortunately, thats not a viable option either.

I also wonder how many of you "side with palestine" just because it means NOT siding with the USA.

El_Kabong

Independent / UK


Palestinian Death Toll Rises as Israel Pushes into Gaza


By Donald Macintyre

At least 20 Palestinians were believed dead, dozens more were wounded and an Israeli soldier was killed yesterday as Israel moved in to reoccupy a swath of the northern Gaza Strip for the first time since its forces and settlers pulled out 11 months ago.

The incursion precipitated the heaviest fighting since Israeli forces converged on Gaza eight days ago in response to the abduction of the 19-year-old army corporal Gilad Shalit and the firing of Qassam rockets.

In the northern Gaza Strip, six people were killed and dozens wounded in what the army said had been three separate aerial strikes aimed at gunmen.

Elsewhere, Palestinian sources said that eight people, including civilians, were among victims of separate attacks, at least one of whom had been killed by an unmanned aerial drone. Five Palestinian militants were later killed in two missile strikes on cars.

The Israeli soldier died after being shot by a Palestinian sniper in a Beit Lahiya house taken over by his unit. Said Siyam, the Palestinian Interior Minister and Hamas leader, last night called on security service personnel fulfill their "duty to stand up to this aggression and cowardly Zionist invasion".

Amir Peretz, Israel's Defence Minister, insisted yesterday: "We have no intention of drowning in the Gaza swamp." He said later: "Return Gilad alive and healthy, stop firing rockets and we will return our soldiers to their bases."

Arab states yesterday called on the UN Security Council to demand that Israeli forces immediately withdraw from Gaza, but France and the US criticised their proposed resolution as unbalanced.

With little sign of a breakthrough in the continuing international diplomatic efforts to broker a solution to the crisis, the fighting between a heavily armoured Israeli incursion force with air support and militants in the northern Strip was the most serious since the disengagement from Gaza ordered by Ariel Sharon last August.

Two other Hamas gunmen, among many who converged on the area with anti-tank and other missiles, were killed in an earlier incident in northern Gaza. And two Palestinians were killed in a separate Israeli air strike outside the southern Gaza town of Khan Yunis. The Israeli military said that both had been militants seeking to attack its forces while Palestinian sources said that one had been a civilian.

But the heaviest machine gun fire and most casualties were in western Beit Lahiya as Israeli forces, with tanks, armoured vehicles, drones and helicopter gunships, sought to secure control of the north-west corner of the Gaza Strip, a sector bounded by five kilometres of the northern border and about the same length of the Mediterranean coast. The area includes the ruins of the three northernmost former Jewish settlements abandoned last August and the Atatra district of Beit Lahiya.

Although most of the dead were militants, one civilian who was killed was Mohammed al-Atta, 25. His uncle, Abdul Ahmed al-Atta, 34, a taxi driver, said he had been at home with his nephew, wife and children when a tank fired at the house. Mr Atta, his shirt caked with blood from carrying his nephew to the ambulance, said: "They targeted our house; there was shooting and then I saw my nephew on the ground. There was a tank 100 metres away. We are civilians and there was no resistance in the area at the time."

He added that the Israeli forces had entered the area at about 7am, advancing through orchards rather than using the main streets.

Mr Atta said there had been a long delay after he called an ambulance, which he understood was because Palestinian liaison officers had been unable to co-ordinate safe passage with the Israeli military for emergency vehicles through the area and said he was obliged to telephone a friend in the Red Cross before the co-ordination could take place.

His nephew died on the way to hospital. The army said it had not been able to verify the incident. A group of relatives and friends stormed the ambulancemen's quarters shouting that they had received calls telling them that ambulances had still not arrived to pick up two other dead neighbours and several wounded.

There was no immediate confirmation of the civilian deaths in Atatra. Ambulances were forced to wait near the American School in Atatra for clearance as heavy machine-gun fire from Israeli armoured vehicles, as well as semi-automatic gunfire from militants, sounded across the district.

Later, mourners for the militants who marched through Gaza City were told through a loudspeaker that there would be a "response from Hamas to what Israel is doing."

With Israel still rejecting any suggestion of a prisoner exchange to secure the release of Cpl Shalit, the captured soldier's father Noam said: "In the end, it will be necessary to pay a price for Gilad's freedom. I don't understand why the government is delaying negotiations on this price."

El_Kabong

PaperPlates wrote:

My point was, that even just for the sake of arguing,as far as who is to blame for the rooto problems, theres no real answer. Its a "which came first the chicken or the egg" situation.

what came first in this intifada was sharon marching into the 3rd holiest site in islam w/ 1,000 armed men

DMITCH8080

El_Kabong wrote:

what came first in this intifada was sharon marching into the 3rd holiest site in islam w/ 1,000 armed men

I was gonna say the same thing after reading all these posts!!!! Isreal seems to be the main ingredient to 9/11!!!!

El_Kabong

DMITCH8080 wrote:

I was gonna say the same thing after reading all these posts!!!! Isreal seems to be the main ingredient to 9/11!!!!

is there something you disagree with?

DMITCH8080

El_Kabong wrote:

is there something you disagree with?

My view is Isreal post 9/11 marched into Palestine and used zionism type actions and took over land lived on by inocent civilians. As a result tensions mounted and the middle east became unstable resulting in terroists blowing up NYC for the sake of us supporting those fuckers.....Thats all! It seems to work as a theory. No?

El_Kabong

DMITCH8080 wrote:

My view is Isreal post 9/11 marched into Palestine and used zionism type actions and took over land lived on by inocent civilians. As a result tensions mounted and the middle east became unstable resulting in terroists blowing up NYC for the sake of us supporting those fuckers.....Thats all! It seems to work as a theory. No?

ok, my mistake, your reply to one of my threads and me misreading your reply in this thread made me think you were saying something else. i thought you were saying you think israel is the main ingredient (as in were physically behind) 9/11 based on what you've read in the thread.

i think that would be a large part of it, yes