Help Needed - The Problem With Some Christians

soulsinging

magikev wrote:

I consider myself a Christian, but like many others, I'm not perfect. My roommate, who is also one of my best friends, is much more "hardcore" so speak with his Christianity. When we moved in together 6 months together, I was very upfront with him about everything. I have a girlfriend (who he know and likes, and makes him dinner very regularly when she is down - also a Christian) who I have dated for almost 4 years. We held off on having sex for the first 2 years, but then decided it was something that we wanted to do. We were each other's first, and have been very faithful. I try and lead my life well, and am considered by many who know be to be a giving and kind person. I had told him that I would be having sex with her (very irregularly as she is RARELY here - she has another year in college still).

Well, a couple days ago, my roommate called me outside (with my girlfriend here) and told me that he had to move out. He said that the fact that I have sex with my girlfriend bothered him, and that he needed to live with somebody avoiding a "sinful life." He added that he does not want this to come between our friendship at all. Personally, I think it's bullshit. I pay my portion of the rent for my room, and I feel that what I do behind closed doors is my life. I don't advocate having sex before marriage, and would never encourage him to do something that he did not want to do. I'm just very confused as to where to go with this. If anybody knows of any Bible verses that could help him see differently, please let me know. That is basically the only thing that he will listen to, and I really don't feel like finding a new roommate.

1. he's moving out. he didn't ask you to move out. it sounds like he handled it pretty well and maturely. and im usually first on board to ridicule prudish christians.

2. sorry, but you aren't going to find my support in the bible for your position. the christian doctrine on sex outside of marriage has been pretty clear for about 2000 years now. like it or not, it's a sin.

3. two years eh? i admire your fortitude. longest i ever waited for a girl was... 6 months or so. of course, i was ready to marry her then if she'd asked. what's stopping you?

4. what if your roommate was a smoker, and you thought going in you could deal with it. he was very considerate about it, but eventually you realized he smelled like smoke all the time and it was starting to seep into the house. are you wrong to say you'd like to move out becos the smoking does bother you after all?

flywallyfly

Tell him God spoke to you in the form of a burning bush...just a hairy burning bush that needed some love and attention.

Collin

soulsinging wrote:

4. what if your roommate was a smoker, and you thought going in you could deal with it. he was very considerate about it, but eventually you realized he smelled like smoke all the time and it was starting to seep into the house. are you wrong to say you'd like to move out becos the smoking does bother you after all?

He said his girlfriend is RARELY there. So a more correct analogy would be; your roommate rarely smokes, and rarely smelled like smoke, not all the time.

He also says he considers this guy to be one of his best friends, but the guy won't even listen to him.

And I just find it weird that he can't live with someone leading a sinful life, but yet it's totally cool to remain best friends.

I think ScotInAmsterdam might be right about this. If not, I just feel sorry for the guy.

But anyway, he wants to move out and that's his choice of course. I just think it's weird and ridiculous.

polaris

ScotInAmsterdam wrote:

Have you considered the fact that your roomie maybe had a wee thing for you, and is feeling a wee bit left out?

welll ... if dude isn't having sex on his own ... this could be it ... anyways - even if you aren't having sex ... guy needs to have a release regularly or the chemicals in the brain starting going fuzzy ...

but i agree with most ... he is doing right by him - all you can do is respect his position ... if he wants to be friends with you - he'll have to learn to tolerate others who don't share his particular belief system ...

cornnifer

soulsinging wrote:

2. sorry, but you aren't going to find my support in the bible for your position. the christian doctrine on sex outside of marriage has been pretty clear for about 2000 years now. like it or not, it's a sin.

?

its definitely frowned upon. Its not the only thing frowned upon however, and Christians seem to forget that while they engage in other frowned upon activities. One of the most frowned upon things is judging other people. Again i cite Matthew chapter 7.

i agree though, the roommate is definitely within his rights on choosing to move out and appears to be exercising that right gracefully. Heck, if its me i'm thinking more privacy to get down!

soulsinging

Collin wrote:

He said his girlfriend is RARELY there. So a more correct analogy would be; your roommate rarely smokes, and rarely smelled like smoke, not all the time.

He also says he considers this guy to be one of his best friends, but the guy won't even listen to him.

And I just find it weird that he can't live with someone leading a sinful life, but yet it's totally cool to remain best friends.

I think ScotInAmsterdam might be right about this. If not, I just feel sorry for the guy.

But anyway, he wants to move out and that's his choice of course. I just think it's weird and ridiculous.

i don't know that it is.

im a recovering drug addict. i have very close friends that still use. i don't think i could live with them becos their lifestyle would bother me. not becos i would judge them for it, but becos of the impact it would have upon me. even if it is only rarely, it would be hard for me to live that close to "temptation." a roommate who busts out the bong now and again would be a problem for me. not that i think he's a bad person for doing it, i just don't want to get caught up in it myself.

it seems reasonable to me that this might be the case. if he believes extra-marital sex is wrong, then it might bother him to have it around. sure, it's prudish, sure it's an odd belief. but i don't think it's unreasonable or wrong. he realized it was a problem and decided to move out. i don't think this is so much a matter of "my best friend is a sinner so im going to abandon him" so much as it is "he is my best friend, but i have to look out for things that are important to me and i'd rather move out than have this come between our friendship."

i see nothing wrong with it, aside from the core belief that sex outside marriage is wrong. but that's his call. more ladies for me

soulsinging

cornnifer wrote:

its definitely frowned upon. Its not the only thing frowned upon however, and Christians seem to forget that while they engage in other frowned upon activities. One of the most frowned upon things is judging other people. Again i cite Matthew chapter 7.

i agree though, the roommate is definitely within his rights on choosing to move out and appears to be exercising that right gracefully. Heck, if its me i'm thinking more privacy to get down!

understandable. im just not convinced this is as judgmental as it is being painted. see my post above. i don't judge other people's decisions, but i do have to be wary of my own living environment and how it might affect me and my values

cornnifer

soulsinging wrote:

understandable. im just not convinced this is as judgmental as it is being painted. see my post above. i don't judge other people's decisions, but i do have to be wary of my own living environment and how it might affect me and my values

Very respectable.

Collin

soulsinging wrote:

i don't know that it is.

im a recovering drug addict. i have very close friends that still use. i don't think i could live with them becos their lifestyle would bother me. not becos i would judge them for it, but becos of the impact it would have upon me. even if it is only rarely, it would be hard for me to live that close to "temptation." a roommate who busts out the bong now and again would be a problem for me. not that i think he's a bad person for doing it, i just don't want to get caught up in it myself.

it seems reasonable to me that this might be the case. if he believes extra-marital sex is wrong, then it might bother him to have it around. sure, it's prudish, sure it's an odd belief. but i don't think it's unreasonable or wrong. he realized it was a problem and decided to move out. i don't think this is so much a matter of "my best friend is a sinner so im going to abandon him" so much as it is "he is my best friend, but i have to look out for things that are important to me and i'd rather move out than have this come between our friendship."

i see nothing wrong with it, aside from the core belief that sex outside marriage is wrong. but that's his call. more ladies for me

It seems very drastic to me. I definitely understand what you're saying. Wouldn't you be able to arrange something with your best friend. If I lived together with my best friend and he was a recovering addict, I would respect that and not hit the bong when he's around. I'd take a walk and smoke a j, for example.

She's only rarely there (I don't know at how many times that is) but it seems to me there are easier ways to resolve this. Can't he take a walk when they're having sex, or go to church or whatever?

soulsinging

Collin wrote:

It seems very drastic to me. I definitely understand what you're saying. Wouldn't you be able to arrange something with your best friend. If I lived together with my best friend and he was a recovering addict, I would respect that and not hit the bong when he's around. I'd take a walk and smoke a j, for example.

She's only rarely there (I don't know at how many times that is) but it seems to me there are easier ways to resolve this. Can't he take a walk when they're having sex, or go to church or whatever?

if the problem is more cohabitation, lying together as husband and wife when not actually such, is he supposed to leave town when she comes to visit? furthermore, why should he have to work something out? if it bothers him, isn't it wiser to remove himself from the situation rather than let it destroy their friendship? how is him moving out a hard way to settle this? it's better than each of them tip-toeing around the apartment trying not to upset each other for months.

furthermore, CW says you should never live with close friends in general if you want to stay friends. this seems like proof of that

there are one or two guys i consider my best friends. i would never live with them. it's got nothing to do with judging them. it's got to do with the fact that just becos we are best friends does not mean we would make good roommates.

lastly, your example is still bad. if you take a walk and smoke a j, i still know what you're doing and it still kick starts that craving for me. if you wait until i leave the house, i'll smell it when i come back and be jealous and resentful that i can't do that anymore. sure, it's irrational, but so is addiction. the point is, it's not necessarily as simple as trying to hide it. and it would get annoying for you to hide it and you'd start to resent me. this sort of thing erodes friendship. i think he made a good decision by just moving out so taht they can put this behind them instead of making it a constant source of tension in their relationship.

Cosmo

He has made the decision to move out... for whatever reasons he sees as fit. I would respect his decisions and try to keep his friendship.
...
But... I also suspect that he is moving out because while you and your girlfriend are banging away like a couple of Hellbound weasles... he is left to pine away in his lonely bed, wiping up the remnants of his singular passions with one of your socks.
...
Good luck with that,

Collin

soulsinging wrote:

if the problem is more cohabitation, lying together as husband and wife when not actually such, is he supposed to leave town when she comes to visit? furthermore, why should he have to work something out? if it bothers him, isn't it wiser to remove himself from the situation rather than let it destroy their friendship? how is him moving out a hard way to settle this? it's better than each of them tip-toeing around the apartment trying not to upset each other for months.

furthermore, CW says you should never live with close friends in general if you want to stay friends. this seems like proof of that

there are one or two guys i consider my best friends. i would never live with them. it's got nothing to do with judging them. it's got to do with the fact that just becos we are best friends does not mean we would make good roommates.

lastly, your example is still bad. if you take a walk and smoke a j, i still know what you're doing and it still kick starts that craving for me. if you wait until i leave the house, i'll smell it when i come back and be jealous and resentful that i can't do that anymore. sure, it's irrational, but so is addiction. the point is, it's not necessarily as simple as trying to hide it. and it would get annoying for you to hide it and you'd start to resent me. this sort of thing erodes friendship. i think he made a good decision by just moving out so taht they can put this behind them instead of making it a constant source of tension in their relationship.

I didn't say he had to leave town when she comes to visit. I imagine he (the hardcore christian dude) is not home all the time, so he could arrange his time so that he's out of the house when they want to have sex. By being away from home, he removes himself from the situation. Of course, you're right, you could see it as if he's being forced out of his own home, but I'd say it's a favour for a friend. If you have a roommate, there will always be compromise. There's not need to tip-toe around anything.

I could definitely live together with my best friend.

There's no need to hide anything, imo. What happens if he moves out? Will he only go out with his friend but not if the girlfriend is around (because he knows they'll be having or had sex)? If he can still hang out and be best friends, and pretend they're not having sex then I don't see how that is different from him taking a walk, or going to visit another friend, or going to church... when they're having sex.

Also, your situation is different. Addiction is not the same as abstaining from something because of your moral beliefs. With addiction there's always the danger of relapse. It's fundamentalism, it cannot be compared with addiction.

I'm not saying his choice wrong is either. If he really feels that is necessary, so be it. I'm just saying if he can't even compromise on those rare occasions, or respect that not everyone is like him or sees things the same way (he won't even listen to his best friend)... he'll have a lot of problems in life. If he's going to move away whenever someone does something he thinks is wrong, he'd better buy an RV and start living in it.

soulsinging

Collin wrote:

I didn't say he had to leave town when she comes to visit. I imagine he (the hardcore christian dude) is not home all the time, so he could arrange his time so that he's out of the house when they want to have sex. By being away from home, he removes himself from the situation. Of course, you're right, you could see it as if he's being forced out of his own home, but I'd say it's a favour for a friend. If you have a roommate, there will always be compromise. There's not need to tip-toe around anything.

I could definitely live together with my best friend.

There's no need to hide anything, imo. What happens if he moves out? Will he only go out with his friend but not if the girlfriend is around (because he knows they'll be having or had sex)? If he can still hang out and be best friends, and pretend they're not having sex then I don't see how that is different from him taking a walk, or going to visit another friend, or going to church... when they're having sex.

Also, your situation is different. Addiction is not the same as abstaining from something because of your moral beliefs. With addiction there's always the danger of relapse. It's fundamentalism, it cannot be compared with addiction.

I'm not saying his choice wrong either. If he really feels that is necessary, so be it. I'm just saying if he can't even compromise on those rare occasions, or respect that not everyone is like him or sees things the same way (he won't even listen to his best friend)... he'll have a lot of problems in life. If he's going to move away whenever someone does something he thinks is wrong, he'd better buy an RV and start living in it.

i think it can be compared. sure the reason is different, but the response might not be. in his eyes, there might be a danger of "relapse" in the sense that listening to the roommate banging away upstairs messes with his head and makes him uncomfortable.

yes, there is always compromise with roommates, but it's a bit easier when it's adapting habits as opposed to making considerable concessions that go to the core of one's values.

it has nothing to do with the rarity of the occasion and everything to do with the importance of the event/value in question. it's the quality of the action, not its quantity. and i doubt either party is going to be satisfied with a compromise that forces one guy to schedule his sex life and the other to be like "ok guys, im going to the grocery now... you will have the whole place to yourselves for the next 2 hours and 32 minutes. i hope you find a good way to fill that time, just don't tell me about it!"

and i dont think this means his friend has to buy a house in the woods. the fact is, like it or not, sexual morals are a big deal to most christians. this isn't like he opposes his dish-washing habits and cannot deal with it. this is a serious issue in his moral code and he might feel that being in the room next door while his roommate enjoys the pleasures of sex leads him to envy and lust. i know i get a bit pissed when i know people are fucking and im not. hell, see how bitter i am on aet when sex and relationships come up but i have the comfort of knowing i can if i try. whereas he's in a position where that temptation and envy may lead him to violate codes that are central to his value system. just becos i think it's wrong to vote republican doesn't mean i need to register as one and go to their conventions just to prove i am tolerant. i also think it's wrong to have sex with kids, but i'm not going to go live with pedophiles to prove i am tolerant and understanding.

i think your problem is more with his reasons for being bothered by this than his actions with respect to leaving the situation.

shadowcast

Dude you got off easy then if he wants to be like that. I don't think loving and having sex with your grilfriend will make you go to hell. Purgatory maybe but not hell. If that's his thing then so be it.

Keiran

It's not just the problem with Christians - this is the problem with religion. But - that's another subject and I don't want to hijack your thread.

You have the right to do what you want as does your roommate. You want to call yourself a Christian and want to have an anti-Biblical premarital fuck - fine that's your right. Your roommate wants to call himself a Christian and sit on the high throne, play God and judge you - that's his right too.

Quit worrying about being a "Christian" and start being accountable for living your life in a way you think is right (Biblical - not Biblical) whatever.

If you subscribe to Christian beliefs, than you accept the fact that upon death you will be judged by God and will be held accountable for your actions. If you think you can convince the Almighty that the premarital dinking of your girlfriend was acceptable course of action in your case, hey than go for it!!!! In the same vein, roomie will need to explain to why he was a righteous enough being to sit in judgment of you (just like a God would). I hear Moses' tablets cracking all over the place!!!



It's all pretty fucked up - just like religion!!!!!!!

Collin

soulsinging wrote:

i think it can be compared. sure the reason is different, but the response might not be. in his eyes, there might be a danger of "relapse" in the sense that listening to the roommate banging away upstairs messes with his head and makes him uncomfortable.

yes, there is always compromise with roommates, but it's a bit easier when it's adapting habits as opposed to making considerable concessions that go to the core of one's values.

it has nothing to do with the rarity of the occasion and everything to do with the importance of the event/value in question. it's the quality of the action, not its quantity. and i doubt either party is going to be satisfied with a compromise that forces one guy to schedule his sex life and the other to be like "ok guys, im going to the grocery now... you will have the whole place to yourselves for the next 2 hours and 32 minutes. i hope you find a good way to fill that time, just don't tell me about it!"

and i dont think this means his friend has to buy a house in the woods. the fact is, like it or not, sexual morals are a big deal to most christians. this isn't like he opposes his dish-washing habits and cannot deal with it. this is a serious issue in his moral code and he might feel that being in the room next door while his roommate enjoys the pleasures of sex leads him to envy and lust. i know i get a bit pissed when i know people are fucking and im not. hell, see how bitter i am on aet when sex and relationships come up but i have the comfort of knowing i can if i try. whereas he's in a position where that temptation and envy may lead him to violate codes that are central to his value system. just becos i think it's wrong to vote republican doesn't mean i need to register as one and go to their conventions just to prove i am tolerant. i also think it's wrong to have sex with kids, but i'm not going to go live with pedophiles to prove i am tolerant and understanding.

i think your problem is more with his reasons for being bothered by this than his actions with respect to leaving the situation.

Look, my uncle is an outspoken atheist, when my grandmother died he refused to go to the church service. He caused a lot of pain in our family. Almost everyone in our family considered his actions to be very disrespectful, they told him how they felt but he still stood by his beliefs, knowingly hurting the people he loves.

It's fundamental beliefs like that that cause pain and suffering in the world. If you can't compromise on your beliefs for your best friends and/or loved ones, you won't be able to compromise for anyone. And when you can't compromise on anything you create a hostile environment. Just look at fundamentalist Islam, they believe in something so devoutly, so strongly that they don't care how many people they hurt. They even think it's justified.

So yes, you could say I have a problem with his reasons, sort of. If someone puts his beliefs over people, like extremist muslims for example, I think it's very sad.

I'm just glad he isn't forcing the thread starter out of the house and chooses to leave himself.

dangerboy

number one, i don't think you should have been so "up front" with him in the first place. like my grandma always said: "don't borrow trouble, boy". it's none of his fucking business. telling him can only be seen as a provocative move.

and b), it's a free country. you are free to fornicate against god, and he's free to not live with you.


hahaha i just reread the title of this thread "the problem with some christians" hahaha the problem with some of them is that they stick to it, and don't spin things to suit themselves to alleviate themselves of guilt, right? yep, it's a problem for you, i'm sure

josevolution

the problem with Christians they allways wan't to push their beliefs down your throat ......

dangerboy

josevolution wrote:

the problem with Christians they allways wan't to push their beliefs down your throat ......

i agree with that, but at least they cop to it and you know what you're getting. if you're not going to live the WORD OF GOD or whatever, don't bother to call yourself a christian and then only pick which things you're going to live by and which ones are inconvenient to your lifestyle

Keiran

josevolution wrote:

the problem with Christians they allways wan't to push their beliefs down your throat ......

yeah, and chances are I've already got something else shoved down my thro . . . um oops um sorry wrong forum