Nader for Mccain '08

24

Comments

  • brandon10
    brandon10 Posts: 1,114
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Women's rights, the end to slavery, civil rights, worker's rights were all long battles that were fought against the odds.

    Yes they were. But they were won. Nader CAN'T win.
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Women's rights, the end to slavery, civil rights, worker's rights were all long battles that were fought against the odds.

    . . . and won with the help of democrats and a few republicans and court cases. and they're actually needed in the process.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    VictoryGin wrote:
    but what gets me about that is the writer says you can't beat a prowar candidate with a prowar [sic] candidate. well, by their logic you can't beat a prowar candidate with nader.

    i think it's funny they point that out.

    And I don't think the writer thinks Nader was going to win either way...so it's not a point he was making. The Dems need to pick up some of Nader's issues if they want to appeal to many leftist voters who are not looking at Obama too favorably as it stands now.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    VictoryGin wrote:
    . . . and won with the help of democrats and a few republicans and court cases. and they're actually needed in the process.


    Exactly! If they can't listen to the wishes of the people nowadays then they should be voted out in place of people who will get the job done the way they used to. The Dems of today are a far cry from their past when they were, infact, the party of the people.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    brandon10 wrote:
    Yes they were. But they were won. Nader CAN'T win.


    They weren't won by one person. They were won by ideas from many people like Nader. That's why Nader's run is important unless you prefer the Dems to run unchecked or challenged...free to offer us whatever they feel like and not have to worry about losing any votes in the process.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • brandon10
    brandon10 Posts: 1,114
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    They weren't won by one person. They were won by ideas from many people like Nader. That's why Nader's run is important unless you prefer the Dems to run unchecked or challenged...free to offer us whatever they feel like and not have to worry about losing any votes in the process.

    I think Your fight may be better pursued trying to push Kucinich and Obama to fight harder within their party to sway more dems to get things done and bring about real change!!

    Sadly, Nader is old news to most of America. I'm not sure much more can be accomplished with him. The media has twisted him so much that the majority sees him as fringe.
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Exactly! If they can't listen to the wishes of the people nowadays then they should be voted out in place of people who will get the job done the way they used to. The Dems of today are a far cry from their past when they were, infact, the party of the people.

    that's one reason why i'm voting obama in. he has an amazing understanding of historical race and class issues. don't think he'll roll those back and in fact i think he'll advance civil rights. and i believe he'll protect my ladyrights, too. and because of who he is i think he'll get a lot of jobs done.

    can't say the same about mccain.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    brandon10 wrote:
    I think Your fight may be better pursued trying to push Kucinich and Obama to fight harder within their party to sway more dems to get things done and bring about real change!!

    Sadly, Nader is old news to most of America. I'm not sure much more can be accomplished with him. The media has twisted him so much that the majority sees him as fringe.

    More people are realizing the media is bullshit everyday. I don't honestly know what 'America' thinks about Nader. All we have the the media word for it and their as you say 'twisting'

    It really gripes me when people point to other's 'supposed' opinions (media reports) to support their own. All I can do is not worry about the media, make an informed and conscience friendly decision based on what's important to me. That's the only way we can break this hold the media has on society. Make decisions for yourself and ignore the crap coming from the mainstream media. I give a shit what the media says people might think of Nader. I support him because of what I know to be the facts.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    VictoryGin wrote:
    that's one reason why i'm voting obama in. he has an amazing understanding of historical race and class issues. don't think he'll roll those back and in fact i think he'll advance civil rights. and i believe he'll protect my ladyrights, too. and because of who he is i think he'll get a lot of jobs done.

    can't say the same about mccain.

    I can't say the same about mccain either but that's not going to affect my vote.

    Obama's record and special interests are enough to make me look else where.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Uncle Leo
    Uncle Leo Posts: 1,059
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Nader is in it to do all he can do with the public attention that comes in presidential election years. If he won, he would make a wonderful president. He brings all the important issues into the spotlight that the other candidates don't mention and flat out ignore. He forces the mainstreamers to either pick up some of these issues or lose votes from people like me who won't vote for someone just because they are a Democrat. He gives many of us a voice who feel none of the other candidates represent our ideals and would have stayed home or wrote in someone else (Kucinich). He gains extra attention for things like ending the war now and starting a withdrawal, election reform, ballot access, single payer national health insurance, Israeli/Palestinian conflict, corporate corruption and welfare and an end to corporate personhood, the huge and wasteful military budget, solar power instead of nuclear power, he actually stands behind the impeachment movement....and all of these issues would not even be represented at all if not for him in this election. So yes, we desperately need Ralph.

    I agree with all of this. And while I think he likes to try to create a dialogue on important things, I think he feels a sense of pleasure not in helping the Democrats lose. He feels they deserve it. Of course, they do, but I'd still rather see them win over the GOP.

    No matter, the Democrats are going to lose their third straight slam dunk. And in this case, stupidity is the #1 culprit.
    I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
  • fragileblake
    fragileblake Posts: 716
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Justin Raimondo has fallen into the clutches of the ObamaZombies.


    I have no problem with people voting for Ralph Nader or for Ralph Nader. But I find it pretty sophomoric and intellectually puerile to assert that every progressive voting for Barack Obama is a zombie. A lot of people make the "lesser of two evils" decision after some pretty careful deliberation. I avoid labeling something derogatory just because I disagree with them. That seems less progressive and more like the Christian Right to me.
    http://blakepnw.blogspot.com/
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    fragileblake wrote:
    I have no problem with people voting for Ralph Nader or for Ralph Nader. But I find it pretty sophomoric and intellectually puerile to assert that every progressive voting for Barack Obama is a zombie. A lot of people make the "lesser of two evils" decision after some pretty careful deliberation. I avoid labeling something derogatory just because I disagree with them. That seems less progressive and more like the Christian Right to me.

    I understand the feeling and see your point. But I also see where the writer isn't talking to anyone directly as if it me and you were having a discussion so the dynamics are a bit different. I can also understand venting frustration in the form of your writing. I imagine we have all had some less than kind words to say about Bush supporters these last few years but if we were talking to them individually we would be more calm and rational.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    VictoryGin wrote:
    by this logic you could also say you cannot beat mccain with nader. and sadly this could be used against nader by saying a vote for him is a vote for mccain. sound familiar? indeed, it is not hard to add 6 to 39 and come out with 45.

    but apparently it's hard for the dems to pick a candidate that can beat a republican....is it really nader's fault it's so close between mccain and either dem? maybe they should have better platforms and issues? nader said if the dems just met w/ him to discuss issues he wouldn't run...but they refused...so he's giving americans another voice and choice other than the usual 2. it's delusional to think picking between mcdonalds and burger king you can get great food, they're both shit
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    WMA wrote:
    But the evidence suggests another possible motive for Nader to run this year -- namely, that he hopes to help his longtime ally John McCain, to whom he owes at least one big favor. Nader is already focusing his fire on the Democrats, with his Web site featuring dozens of press releases attacking Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, while none voice the slightest criticism of McCain. In his latest round of television appearances, Nader trained his fire directly on Obama.


    bingo...

    sounds just like some people from here...

    honestly, nader is irrelevant at this point and i think is actually hurting the reputation of 3rd party candidates...
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    El_Kabong wrote:
    so he's giving americans another voice and choice other than the usual 2.


    why do you guys act like he is the first 3rd party candidate? and the only?


    and .3% is not another choice... its just another name
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    my2hands wrote:
    bingo...

    sounds just like some people from here...

    honestly, nader is irrelevant at this point and i think is actually hurting the reputation of 3rd party candidates...

    How so?

    What other 3rd parties are polling 6%? and have in the past?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    my2hands wrote:
    why do you guys act like he is the first 3rd party candidate? and the only?


    and .3% is not another choice... its just another name


    Who said he was the 1st 3rd party candidate? :confused: Why don't you stop worrying about what you think we are thinking and stick with the topic? It's really not that difficult.

    any choice besides these 3 mainstreamers is very much welcome.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    my2hands wrote:
    bingo...

    sounds just like some people from here...

    honestly, nader is irrelevant at this point and i think is actually hurting the reputation of 3rd party candidates...


    And news flash....Nader doesn't focus on McCain for the same reason we don't. We are leftists and so is he...we don't need to preach to the choir. All of us know how we don't care for republicans but MANY lefties remain fooled by the democrats....thus the angle we are coming from.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    i like nader... i support him running... but a vote for him will not change anything... thats the reality of the situation...

    a vote for nader will create as much change as a vote for kinky friedman
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    How so?

    What other 3rd parties are polling 6%? and have in the past?

    i bet you $20 he doesnt come even close to 6%...

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