Justin Raimondo has fallen into the clutches of the ObamaZombies.
I have no problem with people voting for Ralph Nader or for Ralph Nader. But I find it pretty sophomoric and intellectually puerile to assert that every progressive voting for Barack Obama is a zombie. A lot of people make the "lesser of two evils" decision after some pretty careful deliberation. I avoid labeling something derogatory just because I disagree with them. That seems less progressive and more like the Christian Right to me.
I have no problem with people voting for Ralph Nader or for Ralph Nader. But I find it pretty sophomoric and intellectually puerile to assert that every progressive voting for Barack Obama is a zombie. A lot of people make the "lesser of two evils" decision after some pretty careful deliberation. I avoid labeling something derogatory just because I disagree with them. That seems less progressive and more like the Christian Right to me.
I understand the feeling and see your point. But I also see where the writer isn't talking to anyone directly as if it me and you were having a discussion so the dynamics are a bit different. I can also understand venting frustration in the form of your writing. I imagine we have all had some less than kind words to say about Bush supporters these last few years but if we were talking to them individually we would be more calm and rational.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
by this logic you could also say you cannot beat mccain with nader. and sadly this could be used against nader by saying a vote for him is a vote for mccain. sound familiar? indeed, it is not hard to add 6 to 39 and come out with 45.
but apparently it's hard for the dems to pick a candidate that can beat a republican....is it really nader's fault it's so close between mccain and either dem? maybe they should have better platforms and issues? nader said if the dems just met w/ him to discuss issues he wouldn't run...but they refused...so he's giving americans another voice and choice other than the usual 2. it's delusional to think picking between mcdonalds and burger king you can get great food, they're both shit
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
But the evidence suggests another possible motive for Nader to run this year -- namely, that he hopes to help his longtime ally John McCain, to whom he owes at least one big favor. Nader is already focusing his fire on the Democrats, with his Web site featuring dozens of press releases attacking Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, while none voice the slightest criticism of McCain. In his latest round of television appearances, Nader trained his fire directly on Obama.
bingo...
sounds just like some people from here...
honestly, nader is irrelevant at this point and i think is actually hurting the reputation of 3rd party candidates...
why do you guys act like he is the first 3rd party candidate? and the only?
and .3% is not another choice... its just another name
Who said he was the 1st 3rd party candidate? Why don't you stop worrying about what you think we are thinking and stick with the topic? It's really not that difficult.
any choice besides these 3 mainstreamers is very much welcome.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
honestly, nader is irrelevant at this point and i think is actually hurting the reputation of 3rd party candidates...
And news flash....Nader doesn't focus on McCain for the same reason we don't. We are leftists and so is he...we don't need to preach to the choir. All of us know how we don't care for republicans but MANY lefties remain fooled by the democrats....thus the angle we are coming from.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I guess you think winning an election is the only way you bring about change. A bit shortsighted don't ya think? He brought important issues into the national debate and got people enthusiastic about someone being out there who actually represents the things they've been caring about for so long.
Gore and Kerry didn't win either. I guess they shouldn't have ran. The Democratic party DOES NOT automatically deserve anyone's vote. To think otherwise is arrogant and anti democracy.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I guess you think winning an election is the only way you bring about change. A bit shortsighted don't ya think? He brought important issues into the national debate and got people enthusiastic about someone being out there who actually represents the things they've been caring about for so long.
and how did that work out?
i see no side positive change or side effects from the past 2 elections and Nader's candidacy
by the way...not saying winning is what iot is all about... i was simply pointing out that nader is irrelevant currently and a candidate getting 1% of the vote isnt making change... in my opinion
I don't care if he got 0.1%. I'm not basing my vote on what other people are going to do. I'm basing my vote on someone whose record and platform most closely matches my beliefs....that's what you're supposed to do, what a concept!! Anything else is politicing or voting out of fear.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
thats ridiculous. people are voting for the candidate they want. just because people dont vote for the candidate you think is right, doesnt make them wrong.
by the way...not saying winning is what iot is all about... i was simply pointing out that nader is irrelevant currently and a candidate getting 1% of the vote isnt making change... in my opinion
So he is irrelevant because why again?
Nader has brought this country more change to this country than the other 3 ever will.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
thats ridiculous. people are voting for the candidate they want. just because people dont vote for the candidate you think is right, doesnt make them wrong.
No, I'm talking to the ones who won't vote nader bc they view it as a waste and say Mccain might win.
If you vote for someone you don't like as much because you don't want another guy to win...it is fear of that 'other guy'.
This is the case with some not all Obama supporters
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Nader has brought this country more change to this country than the other 3 ever will.
"currently"
and um, nader isnt ending the iraq war... and i believe Obama will... so, the setabelt is nice and i love all the things naders done... but he is also nearly 30 years older then Obama... and nader has never taken over a country in SERIOUSLY BAD SHAPE... which obama is about to do, so time will tell
i believe Obama will be the best president this country has had... to some like me that isnt saying too much based on the past presidents, but it is saying something signifigant...
i wont agree with everything... but i will agree with the large direction change, thats for sure...
some times it is about larger pictures and basic directions... we are talking about leading a country of nearly 300,000,000... that isnt easy and you cant please everyone, or change it completely over night, even though we would like to
i see no side positive change or side effects from the past 2 elections and Nader's candidacy
I see people who have been inspired by Nader. Issues brought up by him have been carried on by his supporters...3 million of them the in 2000. he brought all these issues that the 2 major parties would touch and forced them into the mainstream. That is progress. Too bad the dems were as the usually are too stupid to pick up any of those issues and try to get more support from the left.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
No, I'm talking to the ones who won't vote nader bc they view it as a waste and say Mccain might win.
If you vote for someone you don't like as much because you don't want another guy to win...it is fear of that 'other guy'.
This is the case with some not all Obama supporters
I get what you are saying abook. But why do you insist on singling out just Obama supporters? Wouldn't your theory apply to Clinton and McCain supporters too? Why do you always just mention Obama supporters?
and um, nader isnt ending the iraq war... and i believe Obama will... so, the setabelt is nice and i love all the things naders done... but he is also nearly 30 years older then Obama... and nader has never taken over a country in SERIOUSLY BAD SHAPE... which obama is about to do, so time will tell
i believe Obama will be the best president this country has had... to some like me that isnt saying too much, but it is saying something
The seatbelt is all you can name. Whatever.
More speculation about Obama...we will see. I have no doubt in my mind Nader would end the war and make a fantastic president.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I get what you are saying abook. But why do you insist on singling out just Obama supporters? Wouldn't your theory apply to Clinton and McCain supporters too? Why do you always just mention Obama supporters?
Who here is a Hillary or Mccain supporter? Why should i waste my time stating the very obvious to people who already know the deal about those 2?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
honestly, nader is irrelevant at this point and i think is actually hurting the reputation of 3rd party candidates...
so, it's all a conspiracy between nader and mccain to help get mccain in office?
he has mentioned mccain and you can see his name right on top of his issues page, which we've posted several times. and hey, feel free to post as many mccain threads as you want! no one's stopping you or anyone else. is anyone really talking about mccain lately other than vp picks? not even too many threads other than one w/ his issues comparing them to obama's....in fact you've started threads about irrelevant ol nader but not a whole on mccain....a lotta ppl seem to focus a whole lot of attention on nader for being so inconsequential.....a loooooot moreso than mccain maybe you guys are in on it!!!
why do you guys act like he is the first 3rd party candidate? and the only?
and .3% is not another choice... its just another name
and how did we act like he's the first 3rd party candidate???? see my above reply, you guys seem to focus quite a bit of attention and energy and anger at him for being 'just another name' oh well....i obviously know he isn't the first 3rd party candidate, my first election i voted for perot and i knew even he wasn't the first 3rd party candidate b/c i could see the obvious charade of the 2 party system here.
if anyone thinks he's the ONLY 3rd party candidate it's all those ppl here who say nader lost the election for gore. they seem obliviously unaware that EVERY SINGLE 3RD PARTY CANDIDATE received MORE votes than the difference between bush and gore in florida
the simpsons captured the fallacy of the 2 party system brilliantly in the halloween episode where the 2 aliens disguise themselves as clinton and dole to gain control of the us...right before election they are exposed to the ppl to be aliens and say 'well you have to vote for one of us, america's only a 2 party system' ....then perot comes out and is mocked and the ppl vote for the aliens....
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
question: why doesn't Nader run for a seat in the senate or the house...? He could propose change via that venue and perhaps get some things done...
I personally think it's very smart to run the way he has in presidential elections. They get tons more press than senate races so the issues he brings with him also get that attention. We all probably wouldn't know nearly as much about him if he hadn't ran for president. And I'm glad to have the opportunity to vote for someone who keeps my conscience at ease. He has gotten things done this way, as well. He rallys people behind him and they join his causes. The Dems don't own the right to run and they need to have people like Nader out there keeping them in check, imo.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I personally think it's very smart to run the way he has in presidential elections. They get tons more press than senate races so the issues he brings with him also get that attention. We all probably wouldn't know nearly as much about him if he hadn't ran for president. And I'm glad to have the opportunity to vote for someone who keeps my conscience at ease. He has gotten things done this way, as well. He rallys people behind him and they join his causes. The Dems don't own the right to run and they need to have people like Nader out there keeping them in check, imo.
I understand your stance, but don't you think Nader could make an impact as a Senator or Representative...he could introduce legislation and raise awareness from the inside...
Based on your response, it seems Nader is simply seeking attention for he sake of seeking attention...if he truly wanted change, Congress would be a good venue....
Comments
I have no problem with people voting for Ralph Nader or for Ralph Nader. But I find it pretty sophomoric and intellectually puerile to assert that every progressive voting for Barack Obama is a zombie. A lot of people make the "lesser of two evils" decision after some pretty careful deliberation. I avoid labeling something derogatory just because I disagree with them. That seems less progressive and more like the Christian Right to me.
I understand the feeling and see your point. But I also see where the writer isn't talking to anyone directly as if it me and you were having a discussion so the dynamics are a bit different. I can also understand venting frustration in the form of your writing. I imagine we have all had some less than kind words to say about Bush supporters these last few years but if we were talking to them individually we would be more calm and rational.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
but apparently it's hard for the dems to pick a candidate that can beat a republican....is it really nader's fault it's so close between mccain and either dem? maybe they should have better platforms and issues? nader said if the dems just met w/ him to discuss issues he wouldn't run...but they refused...so he's giving americans another voice and choice other than the usual 2. it's delusional to think picking between mcdonalds and burger king you can get great food, they're both shit
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
bingo...
sounds just like some people from here...
honestly, nader is irrelevant at this point and i think is actually hurting the reputation of 3rd party candidates...
why do you guys act like he is the first 3rd party candidate? and the only?
and .3% is not another choice... its just another name
How so?
What other 3rd parties are polling 6%? and have in the past?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Who said he was the 1st 3rd party candidate?
any choice besides these 3 mainstreamers is very much welcome.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
And news flash....Nader doesn't focus on McCain for the same reason we don't. We are leftists and so is he...we don't need to preach to the choir. All of us know how we don't care for republicans but MANY lefties remain fooled by the democrats....thus the angle we are coming from.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
a vote for nader will create as much change as a vote for kinky friedman
i bet you $20 he doesnt come even close to 6%...
nada
Only because people are still voting in fear
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I guess you think winning an election is the only way you bring about change. A bit shortsighted don't ya think? He brought important issues into the national debate and got people enthusiastic about someone being out there who actually represents the things they've been caring about for so long.
Gore and Kerry didn't win either. I guess they shouldn't have ran. The Democratic party DOES NOT automatically deserve anyone's vote. To think otherwise is arrogant and anti democracy.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
and how did that work out?
i see no side positive change or side effects from the past 2 elections and Nader's candidacy
I don't care if he got 0.1%. I'm not basing my vote on what other people are going to do. I'm basing my vote on someone whose record and platform most closely matches my beliefs....that's what you're supposed to do, what a concept!! Anything else is politicing or voting out of fear.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
So he is irrelevant because why again?
Nader has brought this country more change to this country than the other 3 ever will.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
No, I'm talking to the ones who won't vote nader bc they view it as a waste and say Mccain might win.
If you vote for someone you don't like as much because you don't want another guy to win...it is fear of that 'other guy'.
This is the case with some not all Obama supporters
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
"currently"
and um, nader isnt ending the iraq war... and i believe Obama will... so, the setabelt is nice and i love all the things naders done... but he is also nearly 30 years older then Obama... and nader has never taken over a country in SERIOUSLY BAD SHAPE... which obama is about to do, so time will tell
i believe Obama will be the best president this country has had... to some like me that isnt saying too much based on the past presidents, but it is saying something signifigant...
i wont agree with everything... but i will agree with the large direction change, thats for sure...
some times it is about larger pictures and basic directions... we are talking about leading a country of nearly 300,000,000... that isnt easy and you cant please everyone, or change it completely over night, even though we would like to
I see people who have been inspired by Nader. Issues brought up by him have been carried on by his supporters...3 million of them the in 2000. he brought all these issues that the 2 major parties would touch and forced them into the mainstream. That is progress. Too bad the dems were as the usually are too stupid to pick up any of those issues and try to get more support from the left.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
The seatbelt is all you can name. Whatever.
More speculation about Obama...we will see. I have no doubt in my mind Nader would end the war and make a fantastic president.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Who here is a Hillary or Mccain supporter? Why should i waste my time stating the very obvious to people who already know the deal about those 2?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
so, it's all a conspiracy between nader and mccain to help get mccain in office?
he has mentioned mccain and you can see his name right on top of his issues page, which we've posted several times. and hey, feel free to post as many mccain threads as you want! no one's stopping you or anyone else. is anyone really talking about mccain lately other than vp picks? not even too many threads other than one w/ his issues comparing them to obama's....in fact you've started threads about irrelevant ol nader but not a whole on mccain....a lotta ppl seem to focus a whole lot of attention on nader for being so inconsequential.....a loooooot moreso than mccain maybe you guys are in on it!!!
and how did we act like he's the first 3rd party candidate???? see my above reply, you guys seem to focus quite a bit of attention and energy and anger at him for being 'just another name' oh well....i obviously know he isn't the first 3rd party candidate, my first election i voted for perot and i knew even he wasn't the first 3rd party candidate b/c i could see the obvious charade of the 2 party system here.
if anyone thinks he's the ONLY 3rd party candidate it's all those ppl here who say nader lost the election for gore. they seem obliviously unaware that EVERY SINGLE 3RD PARTY CANDIDATE received MORE votes than the difference between bush and gore in florida
the simpsons captured the fallacy of the 2 party system brilliantly in the halloween episode where the 2 aliens disguise themselves as clinton and dole to gain control of the us...right before election they are exposed to the ppl to be aliens and say 'well you have to vote for one of us, america's only a 2 party system' ....then perot comes out and is mocked and the ppl vote for the aliens....
riiiiiight you like nader, you support him running but he's irrelevant and needs to stick w/ seat belts and all the other stuff you post...
a vote for kinky friedman will bring about as much change as voting for obama or voting for clinton or mccain....no offense, kinky
can't wait to see the change obama will usher in
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I personally think it's very smart to run the way he has in presidential elections. They get tons more press than senate races so the issues he brings with him also get that attention. We all probably wouldn't know nearly as much about him if he hadn't ran for president. And I'm glad to have the opportunity to vote for someone who keeps my conscience at ease. He has gotten things done this way, as well. He rallys people behind him and they join his causes. The Dems don't own the right to run and they need to have people like Nader out there keeping them in check, imo.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I understand your stance, but don't you think Nader could make an impact as a Senator or Representative...he could introduce legislation and raise awareness from the inside...
Based on your response, it seems Nader is simply seeking attention for he sake of seeking attention...if he truly wanted change, Congress would be a good venue....