Obama just forfeited his right to complain about McCain's tactics

slightofjeff

I officially hate politics now. How in the world can people get away with this stuff?

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/from-the-fact-1.html

How in the fuck McCain could ever be construed as anti-immigration is beyond me. One of the reasons conservatives balked at him pre-Palin was because they are scared to death he's going to push through an amnesty bill.

At the very least, Obama is now officially even with McCain over the kindergarted sex-ed ad, which at least had a grain of truth to it.

This is just a flat-out malicious fabrication from the guy who was supposed to magically change the tone in Washington .... sheesh.

digster

slightofjeff wrote:

How in the world can people get away with this stuff?

Welcome to our world.

washedinblack91

slightofjeff wrote:

I officially hate politics now.

i hate it and i'm only 20! i didnt even get to vote yet! it's sad how they just turned me off to politics so quickly. what i also don't understand is how people are so gaga over obama. i mean, i seriously tried listening to a debate and he just said so little with so many words. he sweet talks america and says he's gonna change it. change what?! all that comes out his mouth is "im gonna change america and together we can change it and make a brighter future!" how can anyone like him?! i mean even if he DOES have good ideas, the mere fact that he uses these tactics to manipulate the minds of americans is deplorable. rant over.

wait, i also get annoyed by people who say mccain=bush. theyre not the same. ok, rant NOW officially over.

NeilJam

washedinblack91 wrote:

wait, i also get annoyed by people who say mccain=bush. theyre not the same. ok, rant NOW officially over.

That comes from McCain agreeing with Bush 90% of the time in the last 8 years.

ACCBootlegGoddess

washedinblack91 wrote:

i hate it and i'm only 20! i didnt even get to vote yet! it's sad how they just turned me off to politics so quickly. what i also don't understand is how people are so gaga over obama. i mean, i seriously tried listening to a debate and he just said so little with so many words. he sweet talks america and says he's gonna change it. change what?! all that comes out his mouth is "im gonna change america and together we can change it and make a brighter future!" how can anyone like him?! i mean even if he DOES have good ideas, the mere fact that he uses these tactics to manipulate the minds of americans is deplorable. rant over.

wait, i also get annoyed by people who say mccain=bush. theyre not the same. ok, rant NOW officially over.

BOTH Candidates are using these tactics to manipulate the minds of Americans..Don't put it all on Obama ok.

NOW the Republicans know how the Democrats felt when McCain put out his ad full of lies!! Yes I guess that makes them even now. No sides is any better than the other.

Considering the reaction both commercials got...I guess it works....and it seems you were looking for a reason to hate the Dems or you'd be condeming McCain too.

For the record...I hate these tactics too...I'd rather them pick apart each others political stances with TRUTHS...but unfortunately that doesn't happen in ANY election. Its sad really.

jimed14

NeilJam wrote:

That comes from McCain agreeing with Bush 90% of the time in the last 8 years.

actually ... I think the talking point is 90% of the time in the past 2 - 3 years ...

after 2000, McCain was still the "Maverick" ... it wasn't until he had the epiphany that he was not going to win his parties' nomination being a maverick .. so, the last few years, party lines and the 90% ....

now, secure with the bid, he picks a base rallying VP and tries to become the maverick again.

homeratbat

slightofjeff wrote:

I officially hate politics now. How in the world can people get away with this stuff?

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/from-the-fact-1.html

How in the fuck McCain could ever be construed as anti-immigration is beyond me. One of the reasons conservatives balked at him pre-Palin was because they are scared to death he's going to push through an amnesty bill.

At the very least, Obama is now officially even with McCain over the kindergarted sex-ed ad, which at least had a grain of truth to it.

This is just a flat-out malicious fabrication from the guy who was supposed to magically change the tone in Washington .... sheesh.

something tells me your more a fan of mccain then your letting on which is fine but should be more upfront if so...while i agree i don't like these politics telling people that a guy is teaching sex ed to kindergarten is wrong and disgusting and the trust was no where near that so take the grain of truth quote away! scare tactics sadly work on both sides and this isnt new! go back to the first campaign and it happened there its sad but it will NEVER change

homeratbat

jimed14 wrote:

actually ... I think the talking point is 90% of the time in the past 2 - 3 years ...

after 2000, McCain was still the "Maverick" ... it wasn't until he had the epiphany that he was not going to win his parties' nomination being a maverick .. so, the last few years, party lines and the 90% ....

now, secure with the bid, he picks a base rallying VP and tries to become the maverick again.

wouldn't he have been more a "maverick" to pick who he wanted to be VP? and before anyone says he wanted palin its clear he wanted liberman but the people behind him said the base would flip out...a maverick that bows down to what others say??

catch22

slightofjeff wrote:

I officially hate politics now. How in the world can people get away with this stuff?

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/from-the-fact-1.html

How in the fuck McCain could ever be construed as anti-immigration is beyond me. One of the reasons conservatives balked at him pre-Palin was because they are scared to death he's going to push through an amnesty bill.

At the very least, Obama is now officially even with McCain over the kindergarted sex-ed ad, which at least had a grain of truth to it.

This is just a flat-out malicious fabrication from the guy who was supposed to magically change the tone in Washington .... sheesh.

about fucking time he got serious. and you sure didn't seem to mind when mccain was doing it... only a big deal when your boy's the target eh?

Brain of J.Lo

I don't agree with misleading campaigns.

That said, why on Earth *wouldn't* Obama start pulling the same shit?

The Republican Party has used this tactic -- with success!! -- for years and years. There was an onslaught of sleazy ads from McCain last week, and while they did take a little bit of heat for it, they ultimately got away with it. They came out with statements like "well, we're all misleading everyone...but it's up to the American people to decide what's true and what's not". McCain defended the tactic multiple times by saying that if Obama had agreed to McCain's town hall suggestion, the whole tenor of the campaign would be different; so if he'd gotten his way, he wouldn't have started hitting below the belt.

So, in this moment where lying your face off seems to be the only way to get a leg up, I guess all that's left to do is join them. America has (sadly) proven over and over again that integrity means fucking nothing.

slightofjeff

NeilJam wrote:

That comes from McCain agreeing with Bush 90% of the time in the last 8 years.

That isn't exactly true. But Obama would like you to believe it.

I don't know if you know this, but the president doesn't actually get to vote in the Senate. So it is impossible to know his stance on every single bill that comes to a vote on the Senate floor.

Where that 90 percent number comes from is an analysis (completely unbiased, I'm sure) of votes in which the analyzers were fairly certain they knew what Bush's stance might be on a given bill. That encompasses 22 percent of the Senate votes since Bush took office. So, to be completely fair, McCain agreed with Bush 90 percent of 22 percent of the time.

A better gauge of McCain's independent-ness might be this: Over that span, he voted with the Republicans only 81 percent of the time. That measures ALL votes.

FWIW, Obama and Biden voted their party lines well over 90 percent of the time.

You know, if you care about such a thing ... but the 90 percent number Obama has been throwing around as fact is grossly misleading. Which, of course, is the point.

slightofjeff

catch22 wrote:

about fucking time he got serious. and you sure didn't seem to mind when mccain was doing it... only a big deal when your boy's the target eh?

Who said I didn't mind? I did mind ... the difference is, at least there was perhaps the tiniest shred of truth in the McCain's ad. At least you could kind of sort of see where they were coming from. It was sensationalistic garbage, and a gross exaggeration ... but at least there was some kernel of truth to start from.

This ad isn't just a distortion of what McCain believes, it's the EXACT OPPOSITE of what McCain believes.

It's race baiting at its most vile, from the party that is supposed to be pro-minorities, and from the candidate who claimed to be running a different kind of campaign.

If you Democrats wanted someone to get down and dirty and sling mud, you should have nominated Hillary. It's very unbecoming coming from The Messiah.

Brain of J.Lo

slightofjeff wrote:

and from the candidate who claimed to be running a different kind of campaign.

Hasn't McCain, in the past (the former version of McCain, that is) claimed to want to run a different type of campaign, too?

catch22

slightofjeff wrote:

Who said I didn't mind? I did mind ... the difference is, at least there was perhaps the tiniest shred of truth in the McCain's ad. At least you could kind of sort of see where they were coming from. It was sensationalistic garbage, and a gross exaggeration ... but at least there was some kernel of truth to start from.

This ad isn't just a distortion of what McCain believes, it's the EXACT OPPOSITE of what McCain believes.

It's race baiting at its most vile, from the party that is supposed to be pro-minorities, and from the candidate who claimed to be running a different kind of campaign.

If you Democrats wanted someone to get down and dirty and sling mud, you should have nominated Hillary. It's very unbecoming coming from The Messiah.

very well done there. "my guy at least had the character to put a shred of truth in his ads." bullshit, and you know it. cry me a river. mccain brought this on himself by running the sleaziest campaign ads i've ever seen. it's hilarious that you're bitching about this now. talk about double standards.

digster

slightofjeff wrote:

Who said I didn't mind? I did mind ... the difference is, at least there was perhaps the tiniest shred of truth in the McCain's ad. At least you could kind of sort of see where they were coming from.

I don't know how to say this without being offensive, but that's complete crap. It sounds like you're taking Obama to task for his new ad while using any way to explain away McCain's behavior and campaign decisions.

Like I said, how the hell do they get away with lying so blatantly? I've been asking that question myself lately, but there were no kernels of truth in those McCain ads, so don't try to kid anyone. Again, no offense, but I don't see how anyone could say there was a kernel.

slightofjeff

homeratbat wrote:

something tells me your more a fan of mccain then your letting on which is fine but should be more upfront if so...while i agree i don't like these politics telling people that a guy is teaching sex ed to kindergarten is wrong and disgusting and the trust was no where near that so take the grain of truth quote away! scare tactics sadly work on both sides and this isnt new! go back to the first campaign and it happened there its sad but it will NEVER change

I've made no bones about the fact that I'm generally a conservative dude, and generally vote Republican. As such, I was never a huge McCain fan. I wouldn't have voted for him in the primaries (it was already decided by the time it reached Texas, so I didn't vote at all).

I'm still not a huge supporter of McCain and all his policies. That "maverick" tag he likes to throw around is actually a negative to me.

But he's not Obama, and that's good enough for me.

There was a time when I found Obama interesting. He was smooth, he seemed a good salesman. He was selling hope, and in a way reminded me of a liberal Ronald Reagan ... I'd be lying if I said I ever seriously considered voting for him, but at worst he once seemed a Democrat I could live with.

I've just grown so weary of him over the past month or so that I literally can't listen to him talk anymore. And now that's transformed himself into Just Another Politician ... fuck him. He's not even interesting to me anymore.

slightofjeff

catch22 wrote:

very well done there. "my guy at least had the character to put a shred of truth in his ads." bullshit, and you know it. cry me a river. mccain brought this on himself by running the sleaziest campaign ads i've ever seen. it's hilarious that you're bitching about this now. talk about double standards.

For the millionth time, I never said I supported those McCain ads. They were sensationalistic, and they never should have been done. I said that then and I say that now.

But, my God, this just crosses into a whole other stratosphere. McCain might as well air an ad saying Obama really is a radical Muslim and possible sleeper cell agent for Al Qaeada and be done with it. It wouldn't be any less truthful that what Obama just pulled.

Seriously, I don't know how you can defend this.

catch22

slightofjeff wrote:

For the millionth time, I never said I supported those McCain ads. They were sensationalistic, and they never should have been done. I said that then and I say that now.

But, my God, this just crosses into a whole other stratosphere. McCain might as well air an ad saying Obama really is a radical Muslim and possible sleeper cell agent for Al Qaeada and be done with it. It wouldn't be any less truthful that what Obama just pulled.

Seriously, I don't know how you can defend this.

the same way you make excuses for how mccain's weren't as bad i suppose.

Brain of J.Lo

slightofjeff wrote:

McCain might as well air an ad saying Obama really is a radical Muslim and possible sleeper cell agent for Al Qaeada and be done with it. It wouldn't be any less truthful that what Obama just pulled.

Luckily for McCain, he doesn't have to do that. There are plenty of others doing it for him.

digster

slightofjeff wrote:

Seriously, I don't know how you can defend this.

Who's trying to defend it? We're noting how you explained McCain's policies and practices when the ads were coming from the other direction. We wondered how you could defend those ads as having a kernel of truth when they were so obviously lies and offensive. And now you have conveniently forgotten those defenses. I consider someone who reacts differently to identical situations depending on which side of the aisle it comes from a person who may have some partisan blinders...also wondering why are you so surprised when the Democratic candidate returns McCain's slime with slime?

slightofjeff

digster wrote:

I don't know how to say this without being offensive, but that's complete crap. It sounds like you're taking Obama to task for his new ad while using any way to explain away McCain's behavior and campaign decisions.

Like I said, how the hell do they get away with lying so blatantly? I've been asking that question myself lately, but there were no kernels of truth in those McCain ads, so don't try to kid anyone. Again, no offense, but I don't see how anyone could say there was a kernel.

We've been over this before. You're not inclined to agree, and that's understandable, but:

The language in that sex-ed bill did leave open the possibility of teaching explicit sex to kindergarteners. I mean, it just did. It didn't limit it to "good touch, bad touch" ... it clearly stated the course was to teach prevention of sexually transmitted diseases. Which is a pretty sick thing to teach a 5-year-old.

Now, obviously Obama didn't intend for this to be the outcome of the bill, and clearly he went in with good intentions ... but that language is indeed in that bill.

Now, of course McCain seized on this, distorted it, ran the most sensationalist headline he could on top of it. He shouldn't have done it. But at least it started with actual language from an actual bill.

This is taking what Rush Limbaugh said -- out of context, but that's another argument -- and trying to use that to make it sound like that is somehow McCain's position. When in fact, Limbaugh was AN ARDENT OPPONENT of McCain on this issue.

It is a complete, race-baiting lie, being used to dupe a demographic the Democrats are *supposed* to be supportive of.

I don't really know how anyone can defend this. At the very least, I expect the holier-than-thou bullshit to drop from Obama's stump speech pretty damn quick.