Question for McCain suppporters

2

Comments

  • DesignVHL
    DesignVHL Posts: 297
    mammasan wrote:
    OK you got me. Maybe I will just go get shit faced drunk on election night. This way I will be numb and drunk when the next fuck wad who is going to royally screw us gets elected.

    i'll be right there w/ ya.
    | valerie |

    EXPAND YOUR ELEMENT!
  • yoke
    yoke Posts: 1,440
    Thecure wrote:
    i think the question is how many bills has Obama written that are about controversial issues. that mean more to me than laws written. there are really hard challanges that americans face and really there is no simple or noncontroversial ways around them. McCain for all his major faults has tackle soem major issues and has worked with demo. around issues like patients bill of rights, campaign-finace reform, immigration reform. he has gotten into alot of trouble from the right becuase of this. maybe a reason why McCain still has problems with the right. i am not saying that i am for McCain but when we talk abotu Obama we shoudl really talk about how he is willing to be disliked and write bills that may not b epopular but are right for teh country. that is what i would liek to see in this election.


    Well if you look at that list of "laws" he has sponsored or wrote the only 4 that passed are not "Law". They are feel good legislation and have no bearing on real world issues.
    Thats a lovely accent you have. New Jersey?

    www.seanbrady.net
  • MattyJoe
    MattyJoe Posts: 1,424
    Thecure wrote:
    i think the question is how many bills has Obama written that are about controversial issues. that mean more to me than laws written. there are really hard challanges that americans face and really there is no simple or noncontroversial ways around them. McCain for all his major faults has tackle soem major issues and has worked with demo. around issues like patients bill of rights, campaign-finace reform, immigration reform. he has gotten into alot of trouble from the right becuase of this. maybe a reason why McCain still has problems with the right. i am not saying that i am for McCain but when we talk abotu Obama we shoudl really talk about how he is willing to be disliked and write bills that may not b epopular but are right for teh country. that is what i would liek to see in this election.

    Obama didn't WRITE any of those bills. Sponsoring them doesn't mean shit. It means the person has pledged to vote for it.
    I pledge to you a government that will not only work well, but wisely, its ability to act tempered by prudence, and its willingness to do good, balanced by the knowledge that government is never more dangerous than when our desire to have it help us blinds us to its great power to harm us.
    -Reagan
  • digster
    digster Posts: 1,293
    MattyJoe wrote:
    Oh really? I guess Obama leads the way then because he is chock full of original ideas. Like the redistribution of wealth. Karl Marx got that idea from Obama!!

    You keep saying Obama is a socialist but when I disputed in in that other thread about this you never even retorted. I think you should back up your arguments about him being a socialist before you go after him about it...
    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=302338&page=3
  • YieldInHiding
    YieldInHiding Posts: 1,841
    Thecure wrote:
    i think the question is how many bills has Obama written that are about controversial issues. that mean more to me than laws written. there are really hard challanges that americans face and really there is no simple or noncontroversial ways around them. McCain for all his major faults has tackle soem major issues and has worked with demo. around issues like patients bill of rights, campaign-finace reform, immigration reform. he has gotten into alot of trouble from the right becuase of this. maybe a reason why McCain still has problems with the right. i am not saying that i am for McCain but when we talk abotu Obama we shoudl really talk about how he is willing to be disliked and write bills that may not b epopular but are right for teh country. that is what i would liek to see in this election.

    No, that wasn't the question.

    However, I agree that McCain did do a lot of good bi-partisan work earlier in his career and should be commended for it. On the other hand, when he sells out completely to the republican party to gain a position of power, he loses all credibility to me.
    No longer overwhelmed it seems so simple now.
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    MattyJoe wrote:
    Obama didn't WRITE any of those bills. Sponsoring them doesn't mean shit. It means the person has pledged to vote for it.

    Yup. That list is stupid. Every congress critter "sponsors" plenty of legislation. It is a completely different story to author or draft legslation, and to guide it through to passage.

    How long is that list for Obama?
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    YieldInHiding wrote:
    does his lack of having any real policies of his own worry you?

    and also, if he is such an advocate of change, why did he choose to have Karl Rove assist with his campaign and select a big oil supporting, pork spending, radical religious fundamentalist for his VP?


    (before you all flip your lid that I am a bleeding heart liberal, I am simply asking a question. I am waiting until after the debates to decide who to vote for but this is a very big concern of mine regarding McCain)


    Works both ways, spyguy.

    I notice no one has answered your query....and this thread has turned into a a Obama thread....
  • MattyJoe
    MattyJoe Posts: 1,424
    digster wrote:
    You keep saying Obama is a socialist but when I disputed in in that other thread about this you never even retorted. I think you should back up your arguments about him being a socialist before you go after him about it...
    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=302338&page=3

    In that same thread a few posts later:

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5842753&postcount=41
    I pledge to you a government that will not only work well, but wisely, its ability to act tempered by prudence, and its willingness to do good, balanced by the knowledge that government is never more dangerous than when our desire to have it help us blinds us to its great power to harm us.
    -Reagan
  • digster
    digster Posts: 1,293
    MattyJoe wrote:
    Obama didn't WRITE any of those bills. Sponsoring them doesn't mean shit. It means the person has pledged to vote for it.

    No senators write the bills they sponsor. They tend to craft the legislation with their co-sponsor and it is then develop by aides, specialists, whoever the fuck.
  • DesignVHL
    DesignVHL Posts: 297
    i just got this email from moveon.org....how does this resonate?

    Dear MoveOn member,

    Here's the situation: John McCain and Sarah Palin are repeatedly deceiving, manipulating, and flat-out lying. And polls are showing that some of those lies are convincing voters.

    Palin says she opposed the "Bridge to Nowhere"—when in fact she fully supported it. McCain says Obama wants sex-ed for kindergartners—when he voted for a bill to protect them from sexual predators.1 And Swift Boat style groups are literally accusing Obama of consorting with terrorists.

    If we don't get the truth out to voters in key states, now, we could be in serious trouble. This is one of those moments when all of us need to pitch in. Can you help? Click below to chip in $25:

    https://political.moveon.org/donate/accountable.html?id=13772-6902500-x6tMJ3x&t=3

    Ads cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to produce and even more to get on TV and in front of voters. We've been working around the clock producing and testing scripts, but we need to know that we'll be able to get these ads made and on the air.

    In the last few weeks, this race has gotten really ugly, really fast. A few months ago a top official from the infamous Swift Boat group said they were planning to go after Obama hard. He wasn't kidding.

    Over the last week alone, Republican groups have announced over $15 million in ads against Obama in critical states (and that's just from one news report!).2

    We need to fight back.

    To pull this off, it's going to take all of us working together. MoveOn is each and every one of us—we don't have big corporate donors—just millions of us chipping in what we can to build a better future for our country. Can you chip in?

    https://political.moveon.org/donate/accountable.html?id=13772-6902500-x6tMJ3x&t=4

    Now is the time to act and call McCain's bluff—if this stuff goes unchallenged it will cost more lives in Iraq and prevent this country from making progress on critical priorities like health care, clean energy, and education for potentially decades to come.

    Thanks for all you do.

    –Nita, Eli, Karin, Ilyse and the rest of the team

    P.S. Joe Klein at Time is fed up with McCain's smears. His most recent post is worth checking out:
    http://www.moveon.org/r?r=28447&id=13772-6902500-x6tMJ3x&t=5

    Sources:
    1. "Out of bounds: McCain ad misstates Obama sex-ed record," Kansas City Star, September 10, 2008
    http://www.kansascity.com/445/story/789668.html

    2. "Quietly, Obama Campaign Calls In The Cavalry," The Atlantic, September 8, 2008
    http://www.moveon.org/r?r=28448&id=13772-6902500-x6tMJ3x&t=6
    | valerie |

    EXPAND YOUR ELEMENT!
  • digster
    digster Posts: 1,293
    MattyJoe wrote:
    In that same thread a few posts later:

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5842753&postcount=41

    Keep going down, good sir.
  • YieldInHiding
    YieldInHiding Posts: 1,841
    inmytree wrote:
    I notice no one has answered your query....and this thread has turned into a a Obama thread....

    That's what happens when McSame clones can't think of a response. They start attacks against the other candidate. Whoops!
    No longer overwhelmed it seems so simple now.
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    digster wrote:
    No senators write the bills they sponsor. They tend to craft the legislation with their co-sponsor and it is then develop by aides, specialists, whoever the fuck.

    Those aides are from the specific Senator's office. The Senator drives the legislation. The Senator champions the cause. The Senator builds consensus. The Senator lobbies. The Senator sees the bill through to a vote.

    The point is that the list presented that Obama "sponsored" wasn't a list of legislation that he made happen. MattyJoe is correct, it takes nothing but Obama (or any other congress critter) saying "okay" to be listed as a sponsor. It takes much more work to author legislation.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    anyone that votes for a Republican administration after these last 8 years is fucking insane or has absolutely zero clue what is going on and is fucking insane

    period
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    DesignVHL wrote:
    i just got this email from moveon.org....how does this resonate?

    Dear MoveOn member,

    It resonates with me about the same as if it had started:

    Dear FoxNews viewer,
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • DesignVHL
    DesignVHL Posts: 297
    agreed! Here's some food for thought that I'm having a discussion about on another web forum:

    http://particlepeople.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8433

    It is about the differences in brain activity of conservatives & liberals..I KNEW there was a damn good reason that I just don't get the conservative/republican pov on well, just about everything.
    | valerie |

    EXPAND YOUR ELEMENT!
  • MattyJoe
    MattyJoe Posts: 1,424
    my2hands wrote:
    anyone that votes for a Republican administration after these last 8 years is fucking insane or has absolutely zero clue what is going on and is fucking insane

    Nope. Sorry. McCain is not Bush, just like Obama is not Hilary.
    I pledge to you a government that will not only work well, but wisely, its ability to act tempered by prudence, and its willingness to do good, balanced by the knowledge that government is never more dangerous than when our desire to have it help us blinds us to its great power to harm us.
    -Reagan
  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    my2hands wrote:
    anyone that votes for a Republican administration after these last 8 years is fucking insane or has absolutely zero clue what is going on and is fucking insane

    period

    Great post! That's the type of attitude that certainly wins elections: "I'm right and anybody who doesn't agree is clearly fucking insane."
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    my2hands wrote:
    anyone that votes for a Republican administration after these last 8 years is fucking insane or has absolutely zero clue what is going on and is fucking insane

    period


    I agree with everything but the "period". I would change the "period" to "semicolon" and add "and anyone that votes for a Democrat administration after these last 2 years where both the Dems and Reps have worked together to screw the country is fucking insane or has absolutely zero clue what is going on and is fucking insane

    period"
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • digster
    digster Posts: 1,293
    jeffbr wrote:
    Those aides are from the specific Senator's office. The Senator drives the legislation. The Senator champions the cause. The Senator builds consensus. The Senator lobbies. The Senator sees the bill through to a vote.

    Maybe I'm not understanding what you're trying to say here. Are you saying that's what the sponsor does, or are you saying that's what the author of the bill does? I think we're all, myself included, getting our terminology confused. Obama introduced all those bills to the Senate floor; isn't that one of the signature elements of driving legislation?

    Obama's list of U.S. Senate accomplishments is not as long as McCain's, since the latter is one of the most senior members of the Senate. Who's saying that list is as long?

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