ok; what platform? that the us will enforce it's laws? he's been on talk shows; etc so what platform will this give him? he could have applied for a permit to travel but choose to break the law. if we're going to start a precident of allowing people to be above the law let's START WITH THE PRESIDENT. he's got the highest office so let's make him above the law first.
We've already done that haven't we? So now it's time for the underlings to follow his example. Led by example.
ok; what platform? that the us will enforce it's laws? he's been on talk shows; etc so what platform will this give him? he could have applied for a permit to travel but choose to break the law. if we're going to start a precident of allowing people to be above the law let's START WITH THE PRESIDENT. he's got the highest office so let's make him above the law first.
Start with the President? Are you high? He ALREADY thinks he can make up/ignore/amend laws at his discretion. But to make it OK is the most dangerous thing I have heard. Ridiculous. Of the people, for the people, by the people. He is (supposed to be) one of us; no different.
Ott
'Give me some music; music, moody food/ of us that trade in love'
-Shakespeare
if they were given permission; then why the subpeona?
it's my understanding that if an american wants to travel to cuba, you must go through the state dept......i could be wrong.....obviously mike didn't do this cuz this admin would never aloow him to go....
it's my understanding that if an american wants to travel to cuba, you must go through the state dept......i could be wrong.....obviously mike didn't do this cuz this admin would never aloow him to go....
you can check the link i posted earlier for the treasury dept. they issue the travel permits. mm is not a journalist nor a member of the press so he'd have to get a permit. he makes movies for profit. if his movies were truthful he may have a loophole but too many things have been proven false.
you can check the link i posted earlier for the treasury dept. they issue the travel permits. mm is not a journalist nor a member of the press so he'd have to get a permit. he makes movies for profit. if his movies were truthful he may have a loophole but too many things have been proven false.
i agree.....i was just trying to answer gue's question.....
Start with the President? Are you high? He ALREADY thinks he can make up/ignore/amend laws at his discretion. But to make it OK is the most dangerous thing I have heard. Ridiculous. Of the people, for the people, by the people. He is (supposed to be) one of us; no different.
Ott
and you don't like that much do you mate? so why should we give free passes to anyone else to break the law?
you can check the link i posted earlier for the treasury dept. they issue the travel permits. mm is not a journalist nor a member of the press so he'd have to get a permit. he makes movies for profit. if his movies were truthful he may have a loophole but too many things have been proven false.
Moore is a journalist. Period. The work he did in Cuba is journalism.
and you don't like that much do you mate? so why should we give free passes to anyone else to break the law?
That was my point originally; that the administration is showing HUGE stones in light of all the subpoenas and laws they have been ignoring. What's good for the goose (Moore), should be good for the gander (Bush et al). A law IS a law-even to the Pres and Co!
I don't deny the fact that Moore broke the law (however misused and outdated); nor that he should face whatever he "deserves"-and my guess is he will, with a smile (and camera, of course). Bad timing is all, really.
Ott
'Give me some music; music, moody food/ of us that trade in love'
-Shakespeare
Moore is a journalist. Period. The work he did in Cuba is journalism.
only in your eyes. an american cannot get free healthcare in cuba. there's a seperate hospital for non-citizens and they have to pay for services. also; an american traveling without a travel permit is jailed in cuba.
evidently you see only what you want to see. give CNN a go. mm isn't anymore a journalist than i or you are.
That was my point originally; that the administration is showing HUGE stones in light of all the subpoenas and laws they have been ignoring. What's good for the goose (Moore), should be good for the gander (Bush et al). A law is a law-even to the Pres and Co! I don't deny the fact that Moore broke the law (however misused and outdated); nor that he should face whatever he "deserves"-and my guess is he will, with a smile (and camera, of course). Bad timing is all, really.
That was my point originally; that the administration is showing HUGE stones in light of all the subpoenas and laws they have been ignoring. What's good for the goose (Moore), should be good for the gander (Bush et al). A law IS a law-even to the Pres and Co!
I don't deny the fact that Moore broke the law (however misused and outdated); nor that he should face whatever he "deserves"-and my guess is he will, with a smile (and camera, of course). Bad timing is all, really.
Ott
and here we stand agreed. maybe the law is outdated. i haven't seen any evidence that it is. but even if i got a travel permit and brought in a cuban cigar; i am still smuggling and expect to be prosecuted just as any other smuggler. parts of that movie were MADE IN CUBA and therefore a cuban export smuggled into this country for personal gain and profit. i agree the laws are for all; but interpretation of the law is in the hands of the courts.
now that the supreme court has made this ruling i'm sure the subpoenas will be thrown out. what state are you licensed to practice law in? just curious.
and here we stand agreed. maybe the law is outdated. i haven't seen any evidence that it is. but even if i got a travel permit and brought in a cuban cigar; i am still smuggling and expect to be prosecuted just as any other smuggler. parts of that movie were MADE IN CUBA and therefore a cuban export smuggled into this country for personal gain and profit. i agree the laws are for all; but interpretation of the law is in the hands of the courts.
I saw a link. I wanted you to post what law(s) he broke and all you come up with is that the film itself is an illegal import.
That has got to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard from you.
maybe someone can come help you read the thread. i've posted several times that he did not procure a travel permit and he brought contraban into this country.
the laws i say he broke mean nothing. it rests on the attorney general to charge him with violations he feels he can prove to a jury. i am also not privy to other aspects of this case nor am i privy to the governments evidence.
if; as you say; mm didn't break any laws; then i'm waiting for you to share the information you have that the government doesn't. maybe that is the stupidest thing you've heard but the federal juducial system is backing it with prosecution. so maybe it's just a wee bit past your understanding.
The right to travel is not mentioned in our constitution. It is in other constitutions, as it should be, since there is no reason an individual should forfeit his existential right to travel except under very narrow conditions, when to exercise that right would indisputably impair the well and proper functioning of the state.
Since the right to travel isn't specifically mentioned in the U.S. Bill of Rights, I logically assume it to be among the rights acknowledged but not listed in the Ninth Amendment. The National Lawyers' Guild apparently find it instead somewhere in the massive and tangled beard of interpretations and rulings growing out of the First Amendment, since they call it a First Amendment right.
No matter. Not even the keepers of the Cuban "travel law" doubt you have the right to travel to Cuba. They make that clear by constantly amending the law not to abridge your right to travel directly, but to try to evade the Constitution by barring you from paying the expenses of normal travel. That this is a "de facto" abridgement of your right to travel would be clear to a child, and that it is clear even to the keepers of the law is shown by their reluctance to go to court. All travelers to Cuba confronted by authorities who have demanded a hearing are still waiting for their hearing.
Any traveler to Cuba who decides he wasn't clearly "press" but only a traveler, if he is accosted by the government or thinks he might be, can go to the NLG's website to download the forms he needs to demand a hearing. He will probably never have a hearing, but he won't go to jail or pay a fine, either. And if he does get a hearing, he may wind up helping to finally blow the illegitimate and leaky law out of the water.
i think the pot laws are rediculous but if i'm caught breaking them; i must accept the punishment. so must mm. why should he be the only american allowed to travel to cuba and bring cuban exports back into the us? why should he be exempt from the law?
Say that again, you guys aren't allowed to go to Cuba!?
~*~*~*~*PROUD EVENFLOW PSYCHO #0026~*~*~*~*
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^RED MOSQUITO #2^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
Dublin 08/06
Katowice 06/07 London 06/07 Dusseldorf 06/07 Nijgemen 06/07
The healthcare lobbyists that currently run our country would never have given MM the permission to go to Cuba so he could show how they are raping the American people. Of course, not ALL Americans, only the Americans who can actually scrape together enough money to pay for healthcare, only to have to deal some stooge in a claims office who is trained to reject their claim.
No worries for MM, tho. Bush will just invoke executive priviledge for him, like Harriet Miers, Sara Taylor, Rove and Sampson. Or BushCo can just have a friendly chat behind closed doors with MM-- no transcripts, only prepared questions approved by MM, with no follow-up questions. And if he is found guilty, MM wouldn't have to worry because he knows a deal to commute his sentence would be in the works, just like for Libby!
If all else fails, didn't BushCo hand over a slew of heavily edited documents in the attorney firings? Maybe MM can just give them an edited version of Sicko and claim he was never in Cuba?
"Where there is sacrifice there is someone collecting the sacrificial offerings."-- Ayn Rand
"Some of my friends sit around every evening and they worry about the times ahead,
But everybody else is overwhelmed by indifference and the promise of an early bed..."-- Elvis Costello
you can check the link i posted earlier for the treasury dept. they issue the travel permits. mm is not a journalist nor a member of the press so he'd have to get a permit. he makes movies for profit. if his movies were truthful he may have a loophole but too many things have been proven false.
What exactly has been proven false? Certainly he'd be sued if this were the case, right? My feeling about everything I've seen from Moore and his films is that he's got the facts. And he can back them up. He just presents them in a really biased and skewed manner. To say "too many things have been proven false" is frankly an irresponsible statement IMO. His facts are correct, whether you like it or not.
you can check the link i posted earlier for the treasury dept. they issue the travel permits. mm is not a journalist nor a member of the press so he'd have to get a permit. he makes movies for profit. if his movies were truthful he may have a loophole but too many things have been proven false.
he is a journalist, you just don't agree with certain facts he presents that destroy your fantasy of america. is there one single fact that is false in his movie?? no. sure, he is presenting only one side of the debate, but he is not saying adopt canada's of france's policy. he's saying, they do these things pretty well, lets learn from them, but not copy the stuff that they do shitty.
are you under the impression that other journalists do their work as not for profit??
journalists do not need permission from the state department to travel. while you may not agree with moore's politics, you will (hopefully) admit that he's not an idiot, and would have checked into things like this before making the movie.
he is a journalist, you just don't agree with certain facts he presents that destroy your fantasy of america. is there one single fact that is false in his movie?? no. sure, he is presenting only one side of the debate, but he is not saying adopt canada's of france's policy. he's saying, they do these things pretty well, lets learn from them, but not copy the stuff that they do shitty.
are you under the impression that other journalists do their work as not for profit??
journalists do not need permission from the state department to travel. while you may not agree with moore's politics, you will (hopefully) admit that he's not an idiot, and would have checked into things like this before making the movie.
onelongsong, like corporatewhore, is one of those who take refuge in Futility when it comes to politics. They're like the mini-Cobert Report for the moving train.
only in your eyes. an american cannot get free healthcare in cuba. there's a seperate hospital for non-citizens and they have to pay for services. also; an american traveling without a travel permit is jailed in cuba.
evidently you see only what you want to see. give CNN a go. mm isn't anymore a journalist than i or you are.
I'm not sure about the first part with the hospitals, but you are wrong about the people being jailed in cuba who go there without a permit. By US laws it's illegal for us to spend money there, there is no Cuban law against us going there. The US issues the permits, not Cuba.
Edit: is this administration that stupid to question Michael Moore in a public hearing? with cameras and reporters? seriously, they would have to be idiots to do something like that... wait... we are talking about this administration... nevermind...
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Comments
We've already done that haven't we? So now it's time for the underlings to follow his example. Led by example.
Ott
-Shakespeare
You misread the post.
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except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Can someone tell me any different?
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
it's my understanding that if an american wants to travel to cuba, you must go through the state dept......i could be wrong.....obviously mike didn't do this cuz this admin would never aloow him to go....
you can check the link i posted earlier for the treasury dept. they issue the travel permits. mm is not a journalist nor a member of the press so he'd have to get a permit. he makes movies for profit. if his movies were truthful he may have a loophole but too many things have been proven false.
i agree.....i was just trying to answer gue's question.....
and you don't like that much do you mate? so why should we give free passes to anyone else to break the law?
Moore is a journalist. Period. The work he did in Cuba is journalism.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
I don't deny the fact that Moore broke the law (however misused and outdated); nor that he should face whatever he "deserves"-and my guess is he will, with a smile (and camera, of course). Bad timing is all, really.
Ott
-Shakespeare
only in your eyes. an american cannot get free healthcare in cuba. there's a seperate hospital for non-citizens and they have to pay for services. also; an american traveling without a travel permit is jailed in cuba.
evidently you see only what you want to see. give CNN a go. mm isn't anymore a journalist than i or you are.
The thing is, MOORE HASN'T BROKEN ANY LAWS.
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except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
and here we stand agreed. maybe the law is outdated. i haven't seen any evidence that it is. but even if i got a travel permit and brought in a cuban cigar; i am still smuggling and expect to be prosecuted just as any other smuggler. parts of that movie were MADE IN CUBA and therefore a cuban export smuggled into this country for personal gain and profit. i agree the laws are for all; but interpretation of the law is in the hands of the courts.
now that the supreme court has made this ruling i'm sure the subpoenas will be thrown out. what state are you licensed to practice law in? just curious.
You're friggen ridiculous.
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except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
i posted the laws he violated. now i'm waiting to hear what state you're licensed to practice law in; and; on what bases he is exempt from those laws.
I saw a link. I wanted you to post what law(s) he broke and all you come up with is that the film itself is an illegal import.
That has got to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard from you.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
maybe someone can come help you read the thread. i've posted several times that he did not procure a travel permit and he brought contraban into this country.
the laws i say he broke mean nothing. it rests on the attorney general to charge him with violations he feels he can prove to a jury. i am also not privy to other aspects of this case nor am i privy to the governments evidence.
if; as you say; mm didn't break any laws; then i'm waiting for you to share the information you have that the government doesn't. maybe that is the stupidest thing you've heard but the federal juducial system is backing it with prosecution. so maybe it's just a wee bit past your understanding.
Since the right to travel isn't specifically mentioned in the U.S. Bill of Rights, I logically assume it to be among the rights acknowledged but not listed in the Ninth Amendment. The National Lawyers' Guild apparently find it instead somewhere in the massive and tangled beard of interpretations and rulings growing out of the First Amendment, since they call it a First Amendment right.
No matter. Not even the keepers of the Cuban "travel law" doubt you have the right to travel to Cuba. They make that clear by constantly amending the law not to abridge your right to travel directly, but to try to evade the Constitution by barring you from paying the expenses of normal travel. That this is a "de facto" abridgement of your right to travel would be clear to a child, and that it is clear even to the keepers of the law is shown by their reluctance to go to court. All travelers to Cuba confronted by authorities who have demanded a hearing are still waiting for their hearing.
Any traveler to Cuba who decides he wasn't clearly "press" but only a traveler, if he is accosted by the government or thinks he might be, can go to the NLG's website to download the forms he needs to demand a hearing. He will probably never have a hearing, but he won't go to jail or pay a fine, either. And if he does get a hearing, he may wind up helping to finally blow the illegitimate and leaky law out of the water.
http://www.iammyownreporter.com/law.htm
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^RED MOSQUITO #2^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
Dublin 08/06
Katowice 06/07 London 06/07 Dusseldorf 06/07 Nijgemen 06/07
No worries for MM, tho. Bush will just invoke executive priviledge for him, like Harriet Miers, Sara Taylor, Rove and Sampson. Or BushCo can just have a friendly chat behind closed doors with MM-- no transcripts, only prepared questions approved by MM, with no follow-up questions. And if he is found guilty, MM wouldn't have to worry because he knows a deal to commute his sentence would be in the works, just like for Libby!
If all else fails, didn't BushCo hand over a slew of heavily edited documents in the attorney firings? Maybe MM can just give them an edited version of Sicko and claim he was never in Cuba?
"Some of my friends sit around every evening and they worry about the times ahead,
But everybody else is overwhelmed by indifference and the promise of an early bed..."-- Elvis Costello
he is a journalist, you just don't agree with certain facts he presents that destroy your fantasy of america. is there one single fact that is false in his movie?? no. sure, he is presenting only one side of the debate, but he is not saying adopt canada's of france's policy. he's saying, they do these things pretty well, lets learn from them, but not copy the stuff that they do shitty.
are you under the impression that other journalists do their work as not for profit??
journalists do not need permission from the state department to travel. while you may not agree with moore's politics, you will (hopefully) admit that he's not an idiot, and would have checked into things like this before making the movie.
onelongsong, like corporatewhore, is one of those who take refuge in Futility when it comes to politics. They're like the mini-Cobert Report for the moving train.
Otherwise, pretty funny shit.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
-Bill Hicks
I'm not sure about the first part with the hospitals, but you are wrong about the people being jailed in cuba who go there without a permit. By US laws it's illegal for us to spend money there, there is no Cuban law against us going there. The US issues the permits, not Cuba.
Edit: is this administration that stupid to question Michael Moore in a public hearing? with cameras and reporters? seriously, they would have to be idiots to do something like that... wait... we are talking about this administration... nevermind...
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
not only communists and "Evil Doers" that want to destroy our family values, untangle the fabric of our society....
and why would you say its not beyond him to make stuff up...do you have an example of either???
He's a sensationalist.
-Bill Hicks