how did bush beat mccain in 2000? by running right of him and painting him as the abortion loving heathen in disguise. the democrats won congress this time around by running very moderate candidates... it was not a liberal platform, it was a conservative platform that happened to be anti-war/corruption. the fact is, this is a conservative country and the christian evangelicals have a huge and powerful influence on the republican party. guiliani is going to have to face that heat. i hope he weathers it, he seems a decent candidate as far as im concerned. but dont think his personal life is not going to become an issue in a lot of conservative republican strongholds.
bush also had someone say at a bush rally before a southern primary, that mccain opposed every measure to help injured/disabled vets...some of the bills they claimed mccain voted against were bills mccain co/introduced <and said was gay, his wife was a drug addict, that he had cheated on his wife and had a 'black child' even tho it was common knolwedge he adopted a child from bangladesh>!! mccain was winning the primaries before that one...
the bush machine beat mccain the way they 'win' anything; they lie
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
well i work for the giuliani expl committee, so i certainly don't don't need anybody's permission......does that answer your question?
anyway, i was simply curious as to what other people thought about this. he is a diff kind of republican candidate, and I assume that b/c of this, the band might have a slightly (or completely) different opinion of him.
If Rudi's Pro Choice, Pro Gay Marriage, Pro Seperation of Church and State, and anti war...and had the balls to admit it...then yes the fellas would approve. Very simple really.
While I'm most def. not a Republican, if it came down to RG and someone else in the Repub. party I'd take RG any day. There was a time where I respected McCain...but that was a long time ago before he literally sold his soul to the highest bidder.
Annnnnyway...
There is no way he'd be where he is if it wasn't for that horrible tragedy and I think he exploited that as best he could.
But....you know what his true feelings are about the right...bunch of wacko's so if he fibs to them to get their vote....good with me. Soooo if its got to be a republican..I'll take McCain....RG seems weak to me....my perception anyway...course after W, anyone would be a blessing. (-:
I am a huuuuuge giuliani fan, and have been for some time. I think he is the uniter that our country needs right now. Im sure many of you do not feel this way, but rather than getting into that, I wonder how the band feels about him. I would like to think that ed especially could put aside his political bias and try to look at RG objectively. Any thoughts?
I don't think of Rudy as a war Monger.. I don't think much of him at all. I know that he is the symbol of 9-11, and 9-11 is a bad memory - and our response a worse memory.
It time to put that behind us and move ahead. Electing Rudy would help that day and the hate is created linger yet longer...
I don't think of Rudy as a war Monger.. I don't think much of him at all. I know that he is the symbol of 9-11, and 9-11 is a bad memory - and our response a worse memory.
It time to put that behind us and move ahead. Electing Rudy would help that day and the hate is created linger yet longer...
well you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but of course, you are in the minority. RG's favorability and likability are among the highest of any public figure in the nation right now. he is almost always referred to as the "hero" of 9/11. so while what happened on 9/11 was horrible, most educated people do not associate him with the acts themselves (except of course the wackos that think he was part of the attack), but rather the heroism he displayed in holding the city, and in large part, the nation together during that terrible time. like it or not, he essentially became america's spokesman in the hours immediately following 9/11.
regardless of how you feel about his politics, i think your association with him and the negative aspects of 9/11 (death, destruction, iraq etc) is completely missing the point.
It's not 1 issue voting...but issues can have different weights
Your comment is pretty stupid really...sorry...but it is. What about the people voting for Dems this last time around to vote against the war? Stupid? I don't think so...it was such an important issue for many that it trumped their needs in other areas.
It's not 1 issue voting...but issues can have different weights
Your comment is pretty stupid really...sorry...but it is. What about the people voting for Dems this last time around to vote against the war? Stupid? I don't think so...it was such an important issue for many that it trumped their needs in other areas.
no, your stance is stupid. you list 3 excellent reasons for a candidate, qualities few and far between anymore, then decide he's unelectable becos of one social issue that no candidate is going to do a thing to change anyway. that reads like one issue voting to me. i used to have some respect for you, but your recent religious conversion or whatever has really changed that. and if you think any candidate out there is actually going to take a stand on abortion you must've been indulging in the hippy drug of choice lately. abortion is nothing more than a wicker man for republicans to lock up the votes of people like yourselves who get flooded by moral outrage over the evil baby killers. they don't give 2 shits about abortion and have been using it to play you for 30 years.
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
no, your stance is stupid. you list 3 excellent reasons for a candidate, qualities few and far between anymore, then decide he's unelectable becos of one social issue that no candidate is going to do a thing to change anyway. that reads like one issue voting to me. i used to have some respect for you, but your recent religious conversion or whatever has really changed that. and if you think any candidate out there is actually going to take a stand on abortion you must've been indulging in the hippy drug of choice lately. abortion is nothing more than a wicker man for republicans to lock up the votes of people like yourselves who get flooded by moral outrage over the evil baby killers. they don't give 2 shits about abortion and have been using it to play you for 30 years.
You are doing a lot of ASSuming my friend. Abortion carries weight with me because I think it's murder. So it is difficult for me to vote for someone that would protect people's right to kill their babies. It is however not the only issue and if that candidate can combate that stance by being better on a number of other stances, I will certainly vote for them.
I will agree that many repubs have taken advantage of the abortion situation to get votes they don't deserve. Just like the Dems did with the war.
Wow, my recent religious what? Dude, I don't go to church. I just don't like to hate people because of their religious beliefs. If that loses me your respect so be it. If any of the people heard your comment about me and religion they would get a good laugh.
I have to ask...you using again? You don't seem like the same person recently. Maybe it's just stress. Take care.
I think he is a terrific leader. I think he is strong-willed and able to get things done.
I appreciate that he is more socially liberal then most republican candidates though I strongly disagree with him regarding abortion. That being said, even with the religious republicans running things the last 6 years, we still have abortions, so I don't think that will change unfortunately for sometime. It's a sad realization that I have come to know recently.
So, his stance on abortion might keep me from supporting him, but probably not anymore.
I think his stance on abortion/gays/and her personal life will hurt him in the republican primary, though unless someone else emerges soon (and it's not going to be McCain), I think he will still win the repub nomination and I also think he stands a great chance of winning the presidency.
Try reading it again soul. Especially the middle part.
I'm a proud democrat but, I can say that under the right circumstances, I could potentially vote for him, ASSUMING he comes out against the war and makes it clear he will withdrawal.
Try reading it again soul. Especially the middle part.
yet you continue to fall for it every time and will deny a strong candidate your vote solely becos of one issue that you even acknowledge is not going to change. yeah, ive changed, law school will do that to you. but you've changed too, you didnt used to be such a pro-life crusader, you used to be a pretty reasonable and balanced guy even when i disagreed with you.
Just out of curiosity has anyone ever been elected to congreess who was single and not Christian?
many single congressional reps. many divorced too... not that that interferes with their mindless rhetoric about "family values." non-christian? very, very few. and the ones who aren't are jewish.
I think anyone who idolizes a politician should be euthanized...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
yet you continue to fall for it every time and will deny a strong candidate your vote solely becos of one issue that you even acknowledge is not going to change. yeah, ive changed, law school will do that to you. but you've changed too, you didnt used to be such a pro-life crusader, you used to be a pretty reasonable and balanced guy even when i disagreed with you.
Not sure where you got that info...I wouldn't deny a strong candidate if they were pro-choice, it would just make it a little harder for them to get my vote that's all.
Pro-life crusader? Hmm...I have been thinking about that more lately but hardly a crusader. I guess having a kid on the way will make you think about these things.
Anyhow, it's somewhat comical that we are even discussing this currently since I agree with you that being just a 1 issue voter is not the smartest choice and that I agree with you that no candidate seems to every really take on the abortion issue anyhow (read my first post). So, my point is, abortion while still very important to me holds less weight when I evaluate candidates now then it use to. Doesn't sound like a pro-life crusader to me.
So, how's that sound to you? You are preaching to the choir here....well more like badgering and abusing the choir but I think you know what I mean.
And the other bottom line for me is that SO FAR, I think Rudy G is the candidate for me. I have more work to do (and so does he) though.
Not sure where you got that info...I wouldn't deny a strong candidate if they were pro-choice, it would just make it a little harder for them to get my vote that's all.
Pro-life crusader? Hmm...I have been thinking about that more lately but hardly a crusader. I guess having a kid on the way will make you think about these things.
Anyhow, it's somewhat comical that we are even discussing this currently since I agree with you that being just a 1 issue voter is not the smartest choice and that I agree with you that no candidate seems to every really take on the abortion issue anyhow (read my first post). So, my point is, abortion while still very important to me holds less weight when I evaluate candidates now then it use to. Doesn't sound like a pro-life crusader to me.
So, how's that sound to you? You are preaching to the choir here....well more like badgering and abusing the choir but I think you know what I mean.
And the other bottom line for me is that SO FAR, I think Rudy G is the candidate for me. I have more work to do (and so does he) though.
i got the impression from your post that he wasnt the candidate for you becos of abortion. glad to hear that isn't the case and we agree on everything else.
dont become a crusader though. those people are ridiculous.
and people who suddenly find god when they have kids annoy me too, so ill try to keep my distance
My stance on abortion has nothing to do with religion.
but how one can feel that the moment the sperm connects...its suddenly a human without getting those thoughts and views from a religious view just confuses the shit out of me. Its a bunch of cells...thats all. Read in your previous post..that your expecting....and you said that may have something to do with it...maybe thats it....we want to feel that what we create is special...been taught how special our kids are....I don't know...not trying to be an ass by the way.
but how one can feel that the moment the sperm connects...its suddenly a human without getting those thoughts and views from a religious view just confuses the shit out of me. Its a bunch of cells...thats all. Read in your previous post..that your expecting....and you said that may have something to do with it...maybe thats it....we want to feel that what we create is special...been taught how special our kids are....I don't know...not trying to be an ass by the way.
I appreciate you position, but I still stick to what I said. My anti-abortion stance has nothing to do with religion...morals yes...liek don't shoot your next door neighbor...religion nope.
And I felt this way for a long time, not just recently.
Comments
he'll keep our narcissistic kids from ruining the country.
you just made my *people to not respect* list
Repected: Everyone
Not Respected: soulsinging
bush also had someone say at a bush rally before a southern primary, that mccain opposed every measure to help injured/disabled vets...some of the bills they claimed mccain voted against were bills mccain co/introduced <and said was gay, his wife was a drug addict, that he had cheated on his wife and had a 'black child' even tho it was common knolwedge he adopted a child from bangladesh>!! mccain was winning the primaries before that one...
the bush machine beat mccain the way they 'win' anything; they lie
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
for being 23 you're in dire need of some adult-like reasoning skills. that was a joke buddy.
so was mine
now if we could only get you to admit that most of our peers dont give a flying fuck about the world...
dude..just pick a location and survey a 100 people...should take 1 hour..2 tops...and you will get your answer.
I don't think of Rudy as a war Monger.. I don't think much of him at all. I know that he is the symbol of 9-11, and 9-11 is a bad memory - and our response a worse memory.
It time to put that behind us and move ahead. Electing Rudy would help that day and the hate is created linger yet longer...
well you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but of course, you are in the minority. RG's favorability and likability are among the highest of any public figure in the nation right now. he is almost always referred to as the "hero" of 9/11. so while what happened on 9/11 was horrible, most educated people do not associate him with the acts themselves (except of course the wackos that think he was part of the attack), but rather the heroism he displayed in holding the city, and in large part, the nation together during that terrible time. like it or not, he essentially became america's spokesman in the hours immediately following 9/11.
regardless of how you feel about his politics, i think your association with him and the negative aspects of 9/11 (death, destruction, iraq etc) is completely missing the point.
It's not 1 issue voting...but issues can have different weights
Your comment is pretty stupid really...sorry...but it is. What about the people voting for Dems this last time around to vote against the war? Stupid? I don't think so...it was such an important issue for many that it trumped their needs in other areas.
no, your stance is stupid. you list 3 excellent reasons for a candidate, qualities few and far between anymore, then decide he's unelectable becos of one social issue that no candidate is going to do a thing to change anyway. that reads like one issue voting to me. i used to have some respect for you, but your recent religious conversion or whatever has really changed that. and if you think any candidate out there is actually going to take a stand on abortion you must've been indulging in the hippy drug of choice lately. abortion is nothing more than a wicker man for republicans to lock up the votes of people like yourselves who get flooded by moral outrage over the evil baby killers. they don't give 2 shits about abortion and have been using it to play you for 30 years.
*grabs popcorn*
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
You are doing a lot of ASSuming my friend. Abortion carries weight with me because I think it's murder. So it is difficult for me to vote for someone that would protect people's right to kill their babies. It is however not the only issue and if that candidate can combate that stance by being better on a number of other stances, I will certainly vote for them.
I will agree that many repubs have taken advantage of the abortion situation to get votes they don't deserve. Just like the Dems did with the war.
Wow, my recent religious what? Dude, I don't go to church. I just don't like to hate people because of their religious beliefs. If that loses me your respect so be it. If any of the people heard your comment about me and religion they would get a good laugh.
I have to ask...you using again? You don't seem like the same person recently. Maybe it's just stress. Take care.
Try reading it again soul. Especially the middle part.
yet you continue to fall for it every time and will deny a strong candidate your vote solely becos of one issue that you even acknowledge is not going to change. yeah, ive changed, law school will do that to you. but you've changed too, you didnt used to be such a pro-life crusader, you used to be a pretty reasonable and balanced guy even when i disagreed with you.
many single congressional reps. many divorced too... not that that interferes with their mindless rhetoric about "family values." non-christian? very, very few. and the ones who aren't are jewish.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Not sure where you got that info...I wouldn't deny a strong candidate if they were pro-choice, it would just make it a little harder for them to get my vote that's all.
Pro-life crusader? Hmm...I have been thinking about that more lately but hardly a crusader. I guess having a kid on the way will make you think about these things.
Anyhow, it's somewhat comical that we are even discussing this currently since I agree with you that being just a 1 issue voter is not the smartest choice and that I agree with you that no candidate seems to every really take on the abortion issue anyhow (read my first post). So, my point is, abortion while still very important to me holds less weight when I evaluate candidates now then it use to. Doesn't sound like a pro-life crusader to me.
So, how's that sound to you? You are preaching to the choir here....well more like badgering and abusing the choir but I think you know what I mean.
And the other bottom line for me is that SO FAR, I think Rudy G is the candidate for me. I have more work to do (and so does he) though.
i got the impression from your post that he wasnt the candidate for you becos of abortion. glad to hear that isn't the case and we agree on everything else.
dont become a crusader though. those people are ridiculous.
and people who suddenly find god when they have kids annoy me too, so ill try to keep my distance
My stance on abortion has nothing to do with religion.
but how one can feel that the moment the sperm connects...its suddenly a human without getting those thoughts and views from a religious view just confuses the shit out of me. Its a bunch of cells...thats all. Read in your previous post..that your expecting....and you said that may have something to do with it...maybe thats it....we want to feel that what we create is special...been taught how special our kids are....I don't know...not trying to be an ass by the way.
I appreciate you position, but I still stick to what I said. My anti-abortion stance has nothing to do with religion...morals yes...liek don't shoot your next door neighbor...religion nope.
And I felt this way for a long time, not just recently.
abortion has nothing to do with the presidency either.
...signed...the token black Pearl Jam fan.
FaceSpace
Fair point that I think I already made as far as policies, etc that nobody is even really dealing with the issue. There are a few issues like this.
Though GW did get to nominate 2 supreme court justices that won't touch the issue either.