Jews

Ahnimus

breakmarysfall wrote:

... now you got me and I use the quiet hour to chat about german music.
Kraftwerk of course!

and I am in with the HOSEN.. uhh was I a huge fan, all Punk and Ramones and Hosen... back in the 80ies.
My first concert, age 14, was Hosen, second Ramones,
tellya, that had some impact on me

and I am in with Zweiraumwohnung und Grönemeyer (zeit dass sich was dreht is a cool song again!).
And of course: Nina Hagen, Poems for Leila, Einstürzende Neubauten!!!!,
a bit of Xavier Naidoo here and then
and: .... blank (I do think of Pearl Jam now... since the 90ies I am all theirs
)

gotta go, work is calling.
nice that someone knows all those bands... funny thing.
wishing you a nice day
a peaceful one so to say

Cool, I don't know those bands, except Nina.

It's hard to get that music in Canada. I tried to get Massive Toene imported through HMV but they wouldn't do it. I had to download it all and even then it's hard to get. I studied German Language, History and Culture for a year or so.

Ich bin gut nicht mit der sprache. Ich lerne grösse auf die internet.

fada

tybird wrote:

A better phrasing might have been, "My God were the Nazis inhuman."

Your right too but most Non Nazi's in Germany at the time were locked up or killed.

fada

breakmarysfall wrote:

thanks for bringing me down again.
and I did not mean to sound defensive or angry. I am just sometimes so tired of hearing about our crime...
I mean you learn it right from first class school how evil we were and maybe still are... what a big crime we did and so on.
Germans do indeed live with this sin and it never goes out of mind anymore, for nobody.
So this heat wave we have here let me sound aggressive, but maybe I am just tired of being the bad guy all the time

and p.s. we really learned for the better and are by now a nice folk.
it is better and we go for diplomatic solutions and peace. WAR is not on our list anymore, and killing due to religios or any other believe is just not subject on the list either anymore....

but well ...what does it matter if few people around the globe refer to Germany still as Hitler country

What is felt towards the general Neo' Nazi hooligans that seem to be springing up in Poland and alot of Eastern European?

fada

For my leaving cert history I did a piece on Rudolf Hess for my special topic. It was about how he wanted to meet Churchill on how he wnated to end the war. He was believed as madman and inprisioned. They was a far more sinister German with a very similar name that should not be mistaken.

breakmarysfall

fada wrote:

What is felt towards the general Neo' Nazi hooligans that seem to be springing up in Poland and alot of Eastern European?

hard to say....
we see the existing of Nazi thoughts and thinking as a permanent danger,
we keep an permanent eye on the development, so to say.
as I said, here we name them criminals and most Germans are just ashamed that they still exist.

but Poland and other European countries will deal with their folks the way they think. All European countries for themselves are pretty independent, still.
as I said: old Nazi followers are found around the globe.
but I think or have the feeling, that they are treated like and even are outsiders of our society and are hardly heard by the mass anymore.
they do exist but seem not of a extreme big danger to our society right now, no where in Europe.


..I truly hope they soon will completely vanish...
for the rest I am bit tired of talking about Germany and its past.
so you do excuse me?... thanks.

JOEJOEJOE

sponger wrote:

Nazis, for the most part, were not being inhuman; they were following orders. Most of the people in world, including us, are easily capable of committing unspeakable acts if we are ordered to do so. This has been proven.

so if someone murdered your family, you would forgive them since they were following orders?......Put yourself in the shoes of others before you make an ignorant sweeping statement, my friend.

sponger

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

so if someone murdered your family, you would forgive them since they were following orders?......Put yourself in the shoes of others before you make an ignorant sweeping statement, my friend.

I never said I would forgive them. I said chances are they wouldn't be much different from anyone else in their shoes. This has been proven. Look at the authority experiments conducted in the 1950's. Go get an education. Then come back and say something less ignorant.

rightondude

Ahnimus wrote:

Except maybe that Armen Miews guy, lol.

I actually met a woman that was so ignorant, she said she doesn't like german people because of WW2. I set her straight though.

I also got in trouble on a german forum for saying "deutschland über alles" I was just quoting my favourite Massive Töne song.

"na du, kleines nazi schwein willst radikal sein?"

Germany has the best music!

Careful, some people here will think your doing ancient Nazi Dark Reich code words and call in the goon suits! lol

rightondude

sponger wrote:

I never said I would forgive them. I said chances are they wouldn't be much different from anyone else in their shoes. This has been proven. Look at the authority experiments conducted in the 1950's. Go get an education. Then come back and say something less ignorant.

I love how spongie keeps popping all his lil jabs

which reminds me, I haven't visited http://www.jibjab.com in a while

actually I haven't seen this one (especially at the end )
http://www.jibjab.com/JokeBox/JokeBox_JJOrig.aspx?movieid=70

sponger

rightondude wrote:

I love how spongie keeps popping all his lil jabs

which reminds me, I haven't visited http://www.jibjab.com in a while

actually I haven't seen this one:
http://www.jibjab.com/JokeBox/JokeBox_JJOrig.aspx?movieid=70

I was only returning the favor. But, judging from your posts, I'm not surprised to see you focusing on one side of the issue. Next thing you know, you'll be helping JOEJOEJOE look like a victim.

rightondude

sponger wrote:

I was only returning the favor. But, judging from your posts, I'm not surprised to see you focusing on one side of the issue. Next thing you know, you'll be helping JOEJOEJOE look like a victim.

One sideed...me?..uh...no.

Why do I get the feeling you're going to give me a reason to defend another stranger from you? hehe

JOEJOEJOE

sponger wrote:

I was only returning the favor. But, judging from your posts, I'm not surprised to see you focusing on one side of the issue. Next thing you know, you'll be helping JOEJOEJOE look like a victim.

Well, idiot, I am a victim of the Nazis.....countless relatives were killed....my dad never recovered from being in a concentration camp.

Perhaps you should base your judgements on reality, and not on some "academic" readings.

Whats wrong, did you worthless masters degree not take you as far in life as you expetced?

sponger

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

Well, idiot, I am a victim of the Nazis.....countless relatives were killed....my dad never recovered from being in a concentration camp.

That's all the more reason why it's impossible for you to see the logic in my statement. Like I said, I would never forgive. Neither have you, apparently. And I don't blame you. So, maybe you aren't uneducated; you're just blinded by your own anger and desire for revenge. Such is human nature.

There were literally millions of soldiers helping the nazi party commit its atrocities during WWII. Do you really think it's a coincidence that so many men just happen to be "inhuman." It must be a coincidence...being that they killed your relatives and traumatized your dad.

Remember, I'm not saying what they did is forgivable. I'm saying any army under a certain kind of leadership is capable of doing the same thing. For someone who is so affected by nazis, you sure have taken little time to understand what led to their creation. Meanwhile, you can keep calling me an idiot if it makes you feel better.

JOEJOEJOE

sponger wrote:

That's all the more reason why it's impossible for you to see the logic in my statement. Like I said, I would never forgive. Neither have you, apparently. And I don't blame you. So, maybe you aren't uneducated; you're just blinded by your own anger and desire for revenge. Such is human nature.

There were literally millions of soldiers helping the nazi party commit its atrocities during WWII. Do you really think it's a coincidence that so many men just happen to be "inhuman." It must be a coincidence...being that they killed your relatives and traumatized your dad.

Remember, I'm not saying what they did is forgivable. I'm saying any army under a certain kind of leadership is capable of doing the same thing. For someone who is so affected by nazis, you sure have taken little time to understand what led to their creation. Meanwhile, you can keep calling me an idiot if it makes you feel better.

Thanks for your rational response.

I am very well read in terms of the rise of the Nazis, thank you.

I obvioulsy have emotional feelings towards the issue, but I am also a rational thinker.

I understand what led to their creation. The people who rallied around Hilter did have a choice.....they were not under duress, nor were they "following orders" when they accepted his rule. Surely many of those who bought into his hatred were not just following orders when they carried out killings.....any thoughts?

dkst0426

ilana wrote:

the current pope used to belong to the hitler youth movment

It IS worth noting (since nobody else has mentioned it) that Joseph Ratzinger was required by German law at the time to join the Nazi Youth program, and he was hardly a regular at meetings (from various sources), and he did lose family members to the Nazis, and he was interred at an Allied POW camp before being released, and that he never picked up a weapon on the frontlines of WW2.

But I suppose the Catholic-bashers will go to town on the "He was part of the Hitler Youth movement" part......

sponger

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

Thanks for your rational response.

It was no different from my first, so there is no need to thank me. Rational repsonses are what I produce without positive reinforcement.

joejoejoe wrote:

I understand what led to their creation. The people who rallied around Hilter did have a choice.....they were not under duress, nor were they "following orders" when they accepted his rule. Surely many of those who bought into his hatred were not just following orders when they carried out killings.....any thoughts?

Would you say that the people who initially rallied around hitler had any idea that they were supporting a movement that would eventually lead to a holocaust?

No, in fact, they didn't.

So, support which led to the creation of the nazi party and its anti-semitic ambitions amounts to racism/scapegoatism. And racism/scapegoatism is no characteristic unique to the nazi party.

But, what really makes the nazis stand out? Obviously, it is the holocaust, not rounding up the jews. The rounding up of people of a certain race is nothing new to history. The U.S. did it to the japanese in WWII.

You might say that the rounding up of the Japanese in WWII is different because the US citizens really believed that the Japanese were a threat. But, what if we rounded up the muslims in the united states right now because of the war in the middle east? Would you not say that such an action stinks of racism?

The same goes for the rounding up of jews. The country of germany was bankrupt and defeated from WWI. It had no pride. The people of germany lived their lives feeling humiliated. I'm not saying that they shouldn't have. But, just as the U.S. thought it necessary to round up the japanese, the germans, believing that the jews were to blame for their own problems, felt it in the best interests of Germany to round up the Jews. On top of that, they were simply racist. And, as I said before, that in it of itself makes germany no more "inhuman" than many, many nations throughout history.

Do you think that Hitler would've still ascended to power if Germany was not suffering from a lack of patriotism in addition to economic hardship? Do you think it's B.S. when people say that a people who are desperate will believe anything you tell them as long as it brings them hope?

And now we move to the actual holocaust itself. How can any army just blantly exterminate masses of innocent people without any provocation simply because they're being ordered to do so? Are you really asking me that? Before I explain what is to me blantantly obvious and what I would expect to be blatantly obvious to anyone else, I just want to make sure that you are seriously asking me how it is possible for a randomly selected military to obey orders, no matter how insidious, without question.

LoriDee64

rightondude wrote:

I love how spongie keeps popping all his lil jabs

which reminds me, I haven't visited http://www.jibjab.com in a while

actually I haven't seen this one (especially at the end )
http://www.jibjab.com/JokeBox/JokeBox_JJOrig.aspx?movieid=70

Drugs I Need...hhahahahaha! Very cute video...!

Btw..this has been such an interesting thread so far...