Health Care in America

24

Comments

  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    nathanastin wrote:
    Universal health care is not the answer. Canada and Europe have disastrous systems and those from this country with money come here for care. It is proven every day that the government screws everything up. You want to put your health in their hands? Crazy. I agree that the costs are high, but it draws the best doctors and research. It costs billions to make new medicine and many times the drug companies don't get a cent if their research, patents, etc. go no where. We are the ones that want an easy fix for our problems: a pill. If people would take better care of themselves and not blame others for their ills, the problems would fix themselves.

    How come police and fire aren't privatized? Are they more important than health...life itself?
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

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  • Juberoo
    Juberoo Posts: 472
    onelongsong wrote:
    we have medicaid for those who can't afford health insurance.
    And why should we have to pay taxes to support your medicaid because you can't afford health insurance?

    When will the screwing stop?
    Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.

    A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.

    Pro-life by choice.
  • KidCarnivore
    KidCarnivore Posts: 82
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Ever think that might have something to do with the people we let run them?

    Absolutely.The problem is that there will always be extreme levels of corruption in politics. The cyclical nature of politics also ensures that even if you agree with a politician, you will probably disagree with his predecessor.
    "All governments are murderers and liars."
    -Bill Hicks
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    KidCarnivore wrote:
    Absolutely.The problem is that there will always be extreme levels of corruption in politics. The cyclical nature of politics also ensures that even if you agree with a politician, you will probably disagree with his predecessor.

    I have high hopes that we will adapt to learn to address these problems and hold our representatives accountable. Certain people make good leaders and can do a good job serving the people but it takes all of us participating in the system to make a strong, worthwhile democracy.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    Cosmo wrote:
    Why not just provide a baseline coverage and let those of us who are gainfully employed to upgrade? I know that if I lose this job... I lose my coverage and have to fend for myself in the shark tank that is healthcare insurance. How many of you are in the same boat as I am?

    Exactly... and if we all had coverage for checkups and preventative care, it would lessen the demand for some of the big ticket expensive health care items.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Say for example America was a recipe for something delicious...like a chocolate chip cookie. You need integrity of all the ingredients (not just some) for it to taste fantastic. If you use 95% super duper high quality chocolate chips and 5% sprinkles of dog shit, the cookie is ruined.

    People are the ingredients. Focus on improving the integrity of the ingredients.

    Interesting how for (some) self professed food connoisseurs, making and eating a shit sandwich (Iraq) is a fantastically delicious event.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

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  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    Answer? Entrust your health to the federal government! They know exactly how to help you! They'll never let you down!

    "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"
    -Ronald Reagan


    yeah, reagan wouldn't know anything about increasing the government, increasing governmental spending, corporate handouts, limiting rights (some constitutional)

    :rolleyes:

    how many tens of billions does his war on drugs cost us a year?
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    onelongsong wrote:
    we have medicaid for those who can't afford health insurance.


    which dr's like ron paul refuses to accept
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    nathanastin wrote:
    Canada and Europe have disastrous systems.

    i dont know how you know this living in Utah :rolleyes: but i've needed various things looked at over the years in hospitals and at doctors and i think our system is excellent... ok, i live in Scotland and its not exactly inner-city or a built up metropolis, but our National Health System, at least where i live, is still one of the greatest political achievements of modern day.

    FREE healthcare... whats not to like
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • OutOfBreath
    OutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    dunkman wrote:
    i dont know how you know this living in Utah :rolleyes: but i've needed various things looked at over the years in hospitals and at doctors and i think our system is excellent... ok, i live in Scotland and its not exactly inner-city or a built up metropolis, but our National Health System, at least where i live, is still one of the greatest political achievements of modern day.

    FREE healthcare... whats not to like
    Exactly.

    Our system is a long way from shit. In need of improvements here and there, and everything is not smoothly run for all all the time. But generally, you need treatment, you get treatment. And without having to pay more than a small co-payment. (which will cease once you reach the limit of roughly 2-300$ for the year)

    I can only speak for myself I guess, but I have never had any trouble whatsoever with the provision of my health care. Infected eye with consequent visits to a specialist, no problem. Admitted to hospital for constipation (as it turned out) no problem. There are waiting lines for some surgery, yes. But it doesn't sound like the US system doesn't have waiting either.

    The point is that neiter the european or american health systems are shite in themselves, but I put forth the statement that the US one is A LOT more inefficient, and has far more people falling outside getting none but the most urgent treatment. That european health services pay for sending some of their surgery to the US is just a further sign of our system working well. You have to wait too long, they send you to the US at their expense and gets it done.

    Healthcare for all, no questions asked. And the funny thing is that it might even be cheaper than the system you have going now.

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • smokeabud
    smokeabud Posts: 253
    onelongsong wrote:
    we have medicaid for those who can't afford health insurance.

    LOL , & to qualify for said Medicaid . U have to make under a certain amount of $$$ per year. if you make over that your screwed ... & the costs of personal ins , can cost as much as 800$ a month per person !

    i aint poor , but i certainly aint rich !
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  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    OutOfBreath wrote:
    I put forth the statement that the US one is A LOT more inefficient

    LOL

    There is not one shred of truth to that statement. Efficient in what way? Shorter lines? That is not the economic measure of efficiency, Norway.

    You measure efficiency by looking at the number of dollars that are wasted on healthcare that could be spent on other things. Naturally, when government runs a program, it will waste more than private industry would because government is required to provide services to you. Private industry can turn you away.

    I like how you frequently trot out this "efficiency" argument as though it's actually true. Economically speaking, there is no efficiency in anything government does. Anything government does would be done more efficiently by a private company. The fact is, there are some activities that are public goods and government would not be best for those activities.

    Universal Healthcare is not a public good. It can be divided and used up by individuals. Individuals who can afford better healthcare should be able to pay for such.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    every man for himself and to hell with everyone else.

    Ahh....god bless America.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    every man for himself and to hell with everyone else.

    Ahh....god bless America.

    That's not what I advocate at all. It's just that you expect the federal government to help your fellow man but you won't do it yourself. Who's the selfish one?
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    That's not what I advocate at all. It's just that you expect the federal government to help your fellow man but you won't do it yourself. Who's the selfish one?

    I guess I could send out everyone money in the mail or maybe paypal I guess.

    How long does it take to lick and stamp a million envelopes?
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    I guess I could send out everyone money in the mail or maybe paypal I guess.

    How long does it take to lick and stamp a million envelopes?

    You have a strange notion of helping your fellow man.

    Helping your next door neighbor would be good enough. If everyone did that then we wouldn't need the welfare.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    You have a strange notion of helping your fellow man.

    Helping your next door neighbor would be good enough. If everyone did that then we wouldn't need the welfare.

    My mistake, I though we were talking about health care.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    That's not what I advocate at all. It's just that you expect the federal government to help your fellow man but you won't do it yourself. Who's the selfish one?

    can I do both...you know, personally help others and expect my federal gov't to help, too....?
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    Individuals who can afford better healthcare should be able to pay for such.

    in britain everyone is entitled to care/treatment under the NHS (national health system) for free... if you happen to be a millionaire or wish to take out a seperate medical insurance for private care then this can be done also... BUPA being one of these private health care organisations. Obviously this enables richer people to pay for the service if they wish and enables them to beat queues and maybe have a recovery bed in a more salubrious surrounding, but the NHS system in Britain, whilst not perfect, is a far more EFFICIENT system than in the US.
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    dunkman wrote:
    in britain everyone is entitled to care/treatment under the NHS (national health system) for free... if you happen to be a millionaire or wish to take out a seperate medical insurance for private care then this can be done also... BUPA being one of these private health care organisations. Obviously this enables richer people to pay for the service if they wish and enables them to beat queues and maybe have a recovery bed in a more salubrious surrounding, but the NHS system in Britain, whilst not perfect, is a far more EFFICIENT system than in the US.

    See, when it comes to health care, efficient to you, me, and most of the rest of the world means that more people will have better healthcare and a nation has a healthier population. To corporatewhore, efficient means that insurance companies will run leaner business and make more money. Apparently making a profit on other people's misfortunes is a good thing for a society.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln

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