In a sense, in the modern sense, I believe as you do, what you observe. When desperation comes, when hard times come and there is blame to be laid.... Ye Olde Book says it was the woman who gave in to Evil.
yes, dogma, undertones...especially catholicism but certainly other religions...look at honor killings
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I was afraid this would turn into an over-sensitive and defensive males vs. females debate; and it has. That was not my intentions.
I thought I made myself clear at the end of my thread starter post; but it looks like I am mistaken.
My main point here is for us men (and women too) to look at ourselves with honesty, accountability and responsibility; and discuss this issue without blaming others or playing the whole "oh, but look at women...they're just as bad" game. Afterall, that's what taking responsibility and being acountable means. Honest self-inspection and honest evaluation of us......the males and what we as individuals can do to improve ourselves and our behaviors.
We can always play the "men vs. women " game in another thread.
I was afraid this would turn into an over-sensitive and defensive males vs. females debate; and it has. That was not my intentions.
I thought I made myself clear at the end of my thread starter post; but it looks like I am mistaken.
My main point here is for us men (and women too) to look at ourselves with honesty, accountability and responsibility; and discuss this issue without blaming others or playing the whole "oh, but look at women...they're just as bad" game. Afterall, that's what taking responsibility and being acountable means. Honest self-inspection and honest evaluation of us......the males and what we as individuals can do to improve ourselves and our behaviors.
I think what happened to your thread is that there will always be people (that's right, both sexes) who are unable to look at themselves objectively and proceed to be reactionary and defensive. It was bound to happen.
You're using the ape-thing, and ignoring culture and art. Biology isn't everything. Even among apes, at least among the bonobos, sex is used as the release for communal differences.
How does any of this have anything to do with what I've said in the least?
- I'm sure there exists culture/art that represent my statements
- I'm sure there exists culture/are that shows situations contrary to my statements
- I'm sure there exists culture/art that is independent of my statements.
I'm only ignoring it because it is not central to the point I am making, which is that the more sexually aggressive gender in humans also happens to be the more powerful gender (typically), and as such, among 6 billion people, you're going to see situations where males exploit their physical power over females in order to achieve sexual or other goals.
You could argue they imitate art or culture or whatever. And yes, some cultures do enforce rules (both written and unwritten) pertaining to gender roles. I would argue our biology existed LONG before our art and culture did.
You can educate all you want, but innate urges in the weak-minded (those who lack self-discipline) will prevail from time to time. And occasionally when that happens, you will read about it in the paper.
another female teacher was arrested for having sex with a male student. i lost track of how many that makes this year alone. many school girls participate in fights and violence; just watch the tele.
i think you need to do a little more research.
Well, as for female teachers hooking up with high school males, there is another biological explanation there which is females peak sexually later than males. So a teacher in her late twenties or earlier thirties would likely be peaking sexually just like 16-18 year old males.
I didn't say female aggressors didn't exist at all. They sure do exist. Plus if you want to get really technical about what you are saying, you talked about school girls, who are often larger than males at the same age due to the fact that girls hit puberty sooner. So during the teen years, females in general are going to be a little bit more intimidating than males, and thank goodness really.
How does any of this have anything to do with what I've said in the least?
- I'm sure there exists culture/art that represent my statements
- I'm sure there exists culture/are that shows situations contrary to my statements
- I'm sure there exists culture/art that is independent of my statements.
I'm only ignoring it because it is not central to the point I am making, which is that the more sexually aggressive gender in humans also happens to be the more powerful gender (typically), and as such, among 6 billion people, you're going to see situations where males exploit their physical power over females in order to achieve sexual or other goals.
You could argue they imitate art or culture or whatever. And yes, some cultures do enforce rules (both written and unwritten) pertaining to gender roles. I would argue our biology existed LONG before our art and culture did.
You can educate all you want, but innate urges in the weak-minded (those who lack self-discipline) will prevail from time to time. And occasionally when that happens, you will read about it in the paper.
Oh. I just wanted to be a bonobo chimpanzee, that's all.
I was afraid this would turn into an over-sensitive and defensive males vs. females debate; and it has. That was not my intentions.
I thought I made myself clear at the end of my thread starter post; but it looks like I am mistaken.
My main point here is for us men (and women too) to look at ourselves with honesty, accountability and responsibility; and discuss this issue without blaming others or playing the whole "oh, but look at women...they're just as bad" game. Afterall, that's what taking responsibility and being acountable means. Honest self-inspection and honest evaluation of us......the males and what we as individuals can do to improve ourselves and our behaviors.
We can always play the "men vs. women " game in another thread.
men are used to being in control and women being subserviant to them. plus guys can be pigheaded so naturally it's harder to admit and accept fault/blame, it's far easier to say 'yeah...well, look at her!!!!' maybe the womens part is reationary after a loooong time of being 'beneath' men.
a while back the man's goal was a wife and a job, a woman's was a husband.
religion also teaches this in a way...man was created by god, woman came from man to have a suitable 'helper'...when my brother got married a few years ago i remember thinking how backwards some of the passages the priest read out...
and going back to your 'old testament' of if a woman was not a virgin when married she would be killed...look at the opposite! the old testament says a few more verses down that if a man rapes a virgin who is not married all he has to do is pay her dad 50 shekels and marry her w/o ever being able to divorce her!!!! why doesn't the guy get stoned for having sex before marriage?? just a woman?
i think as a whole men are too used to being in control and don't want to give it up, it's been this way for a very long time.
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Comments
Fair enough. I'd still have to say that you're outnumbered on this one though.
We're working on it.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Sojourner Truth
Elizabeth Cady Stanton
Florence Nightengale
Dorothea Dix
Susan B. Anthony
Mother Theresa
Gloria Steinem
Wilma Mankiller
Mukhtaran Bibi
Oh stop it already!! :rolleyes:
yes, dogma, undertones...especially catholicism but certainly other religions...look at honor killings
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
I thought I made myself clear at the end of my thread starter post; but it looks like I am mistaken.
My main point here is for us men (and women too) to look at ourselves with honesty, accountability and responsibility; and discuss this issue without blaming others or playing the whole "oh, but look at women...they're just as bad" game. Afterall, that's what taking responsibility and being acountable means. Honest self-inspection and honest evaluation of us......the males and what we as individuals can do to improve ourselves and our behaviors.
We can always play the "men vs. women " game in another thread.
I think what happened to your thread is that there will always be people (that's right, both sexes) who are unable to look at themselves objectively and proceed to be reactionary and defensive. It was bound to happen.
How does any of this have anything to do with what I've said in the least?
- I'm sure there exists culture/art that represent my statements
- I'm sure there exists culture/are that shows situations contrary to my statements
- I'm sure there exists culture/art that is independent of my statements.
I'm only ignoring it because it is not central to the point I am making, which is that the more sexually aggressive gender in humans also happens to be the more powerful gender (typically), and as such, among 6 billion people, you're going to see situations where males exploit their physical power over females in order to achieve sexual or other goals.
You could argue they imitate art or culture or whatever. And yes, some cultures do enforce rules (both written and unwritten) pertaining to gender roles. I would argue our biology existed LONG before our art and culture did.
You can educate all you want, but innate urges in the weak-minded (those who lack self-discipline) will prevail from time to time. And occasionally when that happens, you will read about it in the paper.
Well, as for female teachers hooking up with high school males, there is another biological explanation there which is females peak sexually later than males. So a teacher in her late twenties or earlier thirties would likely be peaking sexually just like 16-18 year old males.
I didn't say female aggressors didn't exist at all. They sure do exist. Plus if you want to get really technical about what you are saying, you talked about school girls, who are often larger than males at the same age due to the fact that girls hit puberty sooner. So during the teen years, females in general are going to be a little bit more intimidating than males, and thank goodness really.
I've done plenty of research, thanks.
Oh. I just wanted to be a bonobo chimpanzee, that's all.
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men are used to being in control and women being subserviant to them. plus guys can be pigheaded so naturally it's harder to admit and accept fault/blame, it's far easier to say 'yeah...well, look at her!!!!' maybe the womens part is reationary after a loooong time of being 'beneath' men.
a while back the man's goal was a wife and a job, a woman's was a husband.
religion also teaches this in a way...man was created by god, woman came from man to have a suitable 'helper'...when my brother got married a few years ago i remember thinking how backwards some of the passages the priest read out...
and going back to your 'old testament' of if a woman was not a virgin when married she would be killed...look at the opposite! the old testament says a few more verses down that if a man rapes a virgin who is not married all he has to do is pay her dad 50 shekels and marry her w/o ever being able to divorce her!!!! why doesn't the guy get stoned for having sex before marriage?? just a woman?
i think as a whole men are too used to being in control and don't want to give it up, it's been this way for a very long time.
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way