simply yes or no would be fine. would you support military action to get rid of them or would you seek diplomacy?
I'd like to know what you are trying to get at. If you are equating the war in Iraq to removing terrorism within your country. Those two are far from equal. Secondly there has been no cases of confirmed terrorist "cells" in North America.
That question is entirely subjective and hypothetical.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I'd like to know what you are trying to get at. If you are equating the war in Iraq to removing terrorism within your country. Those two are far from equal. Secondly there has been no cases of confirmed terrorist "cells" in North America.
That question is entirely subjective and hypothetical.
no not at all. im refering to the war in afgahistan. the place were you oppose your troops being
no not at all. im refering to the war in afgahistan. the place were you oppose your troops being
I see, well it's been over a decade since Canada was targetted by terrorists and I don't particularily want our country to be at risk for U.S. foreign policy. We are supposed to be the fucking clean-up crew. We go in after the U.S. makes a big mess and we clean it up, that is our role.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
That's an interesting coversational tactic I must say. I don't often use it because it's so transparent. But I give you credit for trying.
You clearly said "I'm probably one of your Flag-waving morons and I know why I wave it. It's to honor those who from six generations of my family have defended the princibles that it represents..."
The implication is that you use the flag as a symbol of your cultural values and for those who died defending your values.
But how many of those people died raping someone else of their values. How many died in Vietnam or Iraq? The flag literally does not represent those things. If you need something to represent dead soldiers, try a tombstone. If you need something to represent your American values, represent them yourself. If you need something to represent American imperialism and militarism, try a history book.
Yes I agree with P.P. such passion, we may have something to work with here though. You quoted me correctly as I was responding to someones intolerant broadbrushed labeling of some on this thread. No I did not imply anything I stated exactly what I meant "to honor those who have defended the princibles that it represents. Governing princibles not just cultural values and not only those who died but those who fought. Some family members died in WW2 and Vietnam, one injured severly in Iraq. None died raping anyone's values?? Other than maybe values of Communism and Fascism. My American flag does for me literally represent just what I stated it did. I do represent our fallen with tombstones in a family cemetery and in Arlington and at the Nam memorial all which I have visited. I do represent my countrys values and princibles myself in my daily life with my actions and decisions. I could produce for you countless examples of positive American "Imperialist" influence and results. Same with the "Militarism" (earthquakes in Pakistan, sunamis in Indonesia, genocide in Europe) All of which will be lost on those who are intolerant and closed minded. Hell junior I am a History Book.
Yes I agree with P.P. such passion, we may have something to work with here though. You quoted me correctly as I was responding to someones intolerant broadbrushed labeling of some on this thread. No I did not imply anything I stated exactly what I meant "to honor those who have defended the princibles that it represents. Governing princibles not just cultural values and not only those who died but those who fought. Some family members died in WW2 and Vietnam, one injured severly in Iraq. None died raping anyone's values?? Other than maybe values of Communism and Fascism. My American flag does for me literally represent just what I stated it did. I do represent our fallen with tombstones in a family cemetery and in Arlington and at the Nam memorial all which I have visited. I do represent my countrys values and princibles myself in my daily life with my actions and decisions. I could produce for you countless examples of positive American "Imperialist" influence and results. Same with the "Militarism" (earthquakes in Pakistan, sunamis in Indonesia, genocide in Europe) All of which will be lost on those who are intolerant and closed minded. Hell junior I am a History Book.
The Vietnam war was far from justified. All of Vietnam united against the U.S. invasion, the people did not feel liberated by U.S. invasion, they felt threatened, the same applies to the first Gulf War and the present situation in Iraq.
These people do not want U.S. invasion and your democracy, they want sovereignty. Perhaps that means having a dictator in power, perhaps it means democracy. It is there choice, and no American or otherwise has a right to determine what is best for them. Democracy only works to a certain extent and for many of these places it simply does not work.
You believe your fellow Americans died for noble causes, but they didn't. They thought they were fighting for your freedom, but they weren't. They were fighting to enslave other peoples under the umbrella of American democracy.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
...
You do not honor our fighting men and women by lying to them and weilding the military like a semi-retarded 8th Grader who found his Dad's AR-15.
They were told they would uncover 'stock piles' of chemical weapons and would probably face them in the battlefield. Lies. You dishonor them by tasking them with police work when they are soldiers, not cops.
If the War On Terror is so fucking important... why are we fighting it in a half assed manner? Get the full force over there, secure the mother fucker, pimp slap the mother fucking Iraqi assholes to stand the fuck up for themselves, help them rebuild the mother fucking place and get the fuck out of there.
Cosmo, I'm promoting you to head sumbitch in charge of the war on Islamo-Idiot terror. Now march your happy ass over there and take of this for us. Many thanks now, Get Er Done
Yes I agree with P.P. such passion, we may have something to work with here though. You quoted me correctly as I was responding to someones intolerant broadbrushed labeling of some on this thread. No I did not imply anything I stated exactly what I meant "to honor those who have defended the princibles that it represents. Governing princibles not just cultural values and not only those who died but those who fought. Some family members died in WW2 and Vietnam, one injured severly in Iraq. None died raping anyone's values?? Other than maybe values of Communism and Fascism. My American flag does for me literally represent just what I stated it did. I do represent our fallen with tombstones in a family cemetery and in Arlington and at the Nam memorial all which I have visited. I do represent my countrys values and princibles myself in my daily life with my actions and decisions. I could produce for you countless examples of positive American "Imperialist" influence and results. Same with the "Militarism" (earthquakes in Pakistan, sunamis in Indonesia, genocide in Europe) All of which will be lost on those who are intolerant and closed minded. Hell junior I am a History Book.
...
Simply out of curiosity... you stated that there are 6 generations of Military in your family... something to be proud of, indeed... are you the Sixth? Which branch? Were you in the Gulf War?
Thanx.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
These people do not want U.S. invasion and your democracy, they want sovereignty. Perhaps that means having a dictator in power, perhaps it means democracy. It is there choice, and no American or otherwise has a right to determine what is best for them. Democracy only works to a certain extent and for many of these places it simply does not work.
isn't it sad that people can not live in this world and be free? do they want a dictator to tell them what to watch, read, listen, think? I hope not. trying to spread freedom is a noble cause.
isn't it sad that people can not live in this world and be free? do they want a dictator to tell them what to watch, read, listen, think? I hope not. trying to spread freedom is a noble cause.
Dude, it's not that simple. Look at the situation in Iraq. The American democracy has caused sectarian violence, it's caused the military and police to step down as Islamic extremists gain power over their regions.
Iraq is not a liberated american democracy, it's a civil war. Open your eyes!
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Dude, it's not that simple. Look at the situation in Iraq. The American democracy has caused sectarian violence, it's caused the military and police to step down as Islamic extremists gain power over their regions.
Iraq is not a liberated american democracy, it's a civil war. Open your eyes!
history has yet to determine the outcome in Iraq. i'm not disagreeing with you, nor was I disagreeing with the previous post of yours I quoted. I was saying its sad some of thse troubled people dont know the difference between religous extremism and freedom. hopefully america can open THEIR eyes and free them from the grip of the quran. can it be done? i really dont know anymore.
history has yet to determine the outcome in Iraq. i'm not disagreeing with you, nor was I disagreeing with the previous post of yours I quoted. I was saying its sad some of thse troubled people dont know the difference between religous extremism and freedom. hopefully america can open THEIR eyes and free them from the grip of the quran. can it be done? i really dont know anymore.
I don't think so. Islam is the fastest growing, largest religion in the world, with over 1.6 billion followers.
Good Luck!
If I had my way there wouldn't be any religion at all.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Cosmo, I'm promoting you to head sumbitch in charge of the war on Islamo-Idiot terror. Now march your happy ass over there and take of this for us. Many thanks now, Get Er Done
...
Trust me... if we were sending 500,000 front line U.S. troops to that fucking place to seal it up so we don't have to send our guys back... in flag draped coffins, two at a time... for fucking forever... give me a fucking M-16 and point me towards the transport.
I am SICK of this two bit piece of shit police action in that shithole over there. I am SICK of Bush's 'Stay The Course' shit... and SICK of Rumsfled's 'Army we got' shit. They cannot be serious about their 'War on terror' if they are fighting it with reserves and National Guardsmen instead for the fucking first stringers.
Right now we are referees in a fucking street fight with no rules. Fuck that place and fuck our leaders for getting our military chest deep in the shit.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I don't think so. Islam is the fastest growing, largest religion in the world, with over 1.6 billion followers.
Good Luck!
If I had my way there wouldn't be any religion at all.
slow down buddy. I thought Islam was a peaceful religion? of course I'm ok with that. have at it. its the extreme interperation of the quran that cuases problems. much like the extreme way some interput the bible. thankfully the bible doesnt ask to spread the religion by the sword.
slow down buddy. I thought Islam was a peaceful religion? of course I'm ok with that. have at it. its the extreme interperation of the quran that cuases problems. much like the extreme way some interput the bible. thankfully the bible doesnt ask to spread the religion by the sword.
Neither does the Qu'ran
By the way America was founded on Democracy and has 200 years to get used to it.
Iraq has had democracy for 2 years and has been under dictatorial rule up until now.
Do you honestly expect Iraqi people to adjust that easily?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
By the way America was founded on Democracy and has 200 years to get used to it.
Iraq has had democracy for 2 years and has been under dictatorial rule up until now.
Do you honestly expect Iraqi people to adjust that easily?
actually yes it does.
and no of course not, its a struggle, but in the end may be well worth it for the people of iraq to be free. and not be forced to have a picture of their leader on their wall at all times.
and no of course not, its a struggle, but in the end may be well worth it for the people of iraq to be free. and not be forced to have a picture of their leader on their wall at all times.
...
You may be able to change the 'leaders' in Iraq... but, do you believe you can change their culture? Can you at least imagine the pictures of Saddam Hussein being replaced by the pictures of Muqtada al Sadr or the Ayatolllah du Jour? And you do realize that there is a distinct possibility that the 60%+ majority Shi'ite (note: Hezbollah is shi'ite... and so is Iran) will democratically elect a fundamentalist Islamic cleric to lead them?
Is Democracy in a Theocratic state possible?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
You may be able to change the 'leaders' in Iraq... but, do you believe you can change their culture? Can you at least imagine the pictures of Saddam Hussein being replaced by the pictures of Muqtada al Sadr or the Ayatolllah du Jour? And you do realize that there is a distinct possibility that the 60%+ majority Shi'ite (note: Hezbollah is shi'ite... and so is Iran) will democratically elect a fundamentalist Islamic cleric to lead them?
Is Democracy in a Theocratic state possible?
yea they are some fucked up people over there. I think Iraq is on the right track leadership wise. they need to find a way to bring together both sides. I think its going to take the top clerics to get together and shake hands. if that can somehow happen, I think Iraq has a good shot at a peaceful free democratic country.
yea they are some fucked up people over there. I think Iraq is on the right track leadership wise. they need to find a way to bring together both sides. I think its going to take the top clerics to get together and shake hands. if that can somehow happen, I think Iraq has a good shot at a peaceful free democratic country.
...
But, at what cost? And for how long?
I know that all nations suffer a period of instability before they get up and stabilized... but, what will a stable Iraq look like... realistically, not just in a wishful thinking way. Does anyone believe they will set aside their religious beliefs in favor of capitalism? Maybe in 100 years or so... are we willing to stay there forever?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
But, at what cost? And for how long?
I know that all nations suffer a period of instability before they get up and stabilized... but, what will a stable Iraq look like... realistically, not just in a wishful thinking way. Does anyone believe they will set aside their religious beliefs in favor of capitalism? Maybe in 100 years or so... are we willing to stay there forever?
well by the looks of it they have until the end of bush's term. if dems win, every solider will be gone by december 1st 2008.
to answer your question. I dont know. history will only show us the answer.
yea they are some fucked up people over there. I think Iraq is on the right track leadership wise. they need to find a way to bring together both sides. I think its going to take the top clerics to get together and shake hands. if that can somehow happen, I think Iraq has a good shot at a peaceful free democratic country.
Point is, taking out Saddam unleashed the Islamic Extremists into society. They now control various regions of Iraq, meanwhile the U.S. military stands by and does nothing. Because there is nothing they can do. Saddam was a bad guy, but he maintained order over the country. Now they just have war and violence and out of all that will arise a new dictator or Islamic leadership.
The situation will only be worse than it was with Saddam. The states goal of wiping out terrorism by taking down Saddam was a reverse of actuality. Because in actuality taking out Saddam gave rise to terrorist groups in Iraq.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Point is, taking out Saddam unleashed the Islamic Extremists into society. They now control various regions of Iraq, meanwhile the U.S. military stands by and does nothing. Because there is nothing they can do. Saddam was a bad guy, but he maintained order over the country. Now they just have war and violence and out of all that will arise a new dictator or Islamic leadership.
The situation will only be worse than it was with Saddam. The states goal of wiping out terrorism by taking down Saddam was a reverse of actuality. Because in actuality taking out Saddam gave rise to terrorist groups in Iraq.
none of this is fact and has yet to be seen. except saddam being a bad guy. new dictator will arise? thats your assumption. the us military is doing nothing? thats an ignorant statement. I dont think the soliders returning from there would agree with you.
the situation will be worse then when saddam was there? do you know how any mass graves were found ? he killed an estimated 400,000 people.
none of this is fact and has yet to be seen. except saddam being a bad guy. new dictator will arise? thats your assumption. the us military is doing nothing? thats an ignorant statement. I dont think the soliders returning from there would agree with you.
the situation will be worse then when saddam was there? do you know how any mass graves were found ? he killed an estimated 400,000 people.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Comments
I'd like to know what you are trying to get at. If you are equating the war in Iraq to removing terrorism within your country. Those two are far from equal. Secondly there has been no cases of confirmed terrorist "cells" in North America.
That question is entirely subjective and hypothetical.
no not at all. im refering to the war in afgahistan. the place were you oppose your troops being
I see, well it's been over a decade since Canada was targetted by terrorists and I don't particularily want our country to be at risk for U.S. foreign policy. We are supposed to be the fucking clean-up crew. We go in after the U.S. makes a big mess and we clean it up, that is our role.
Yes I agree with P.P. such passion, we may have something to work with here though. You quoted me correctly as I was responding to someones intolerant broadbrushed labeling of some on this thread. No I did not imply anything I stated exactly what I meant "to honor those who have defended the princibles that it represents. Governing princibles not just cultural values and not only those who died but those who fought. Some family members died in WW2 and Vietnam, one injured severly in Iraq. None died raping anyone's values?? Other than maybe values of Communism and Fascism. My American flag does for me literally represent just what I stated it did. I do represent our fallen with tombstones in a family cemetery and in Arlington and at the Nam memorial all which I have visited. I do represent my countrys values and princibles myself in my daily life with my actions and decisions. I could produce for you countless examples of positive American "Imperialist" influence and results. Same with the "Militarism" (earthquakes in Pakistan, sunamis in Indonesia, genocide in Europe) All of which will be lost on those who are intolerant and closed minded. Hell junior I am a History Book.
1998 Seattle 7-21
2000 Seattle 11-06
2003 Seattle Benaroya 10-22
2005 Gorge 9-1
2006 Gorge 7-23
The Vietnam war was far from justified. All of Vietnam united against the U.S. invasion, the people did not feel liberated by U.S. invasion, they felt threatened, the same applies to the first Gulf War and the present situation in Iraq.
These people do not want U.S. invasion and your democracy, they want sovereignty. Perhaps that means having a dictator in power, perhaps it means democracy. It is there choice, and no American or otherwise has a right to determine what is best for them. Democracy only works to a certain extent and for many of these places it simply does not work.
You believe your fellow Americans died for noble causes, but they didn't. They thought they were fighting for your freedom, but they weren't. They were fighting to enslave other peoples under the umbrella of American democracy.
Cosmo, I'm promoting you to head sumbitch in charge of the war on Islamo-Idiot terror. Now march your happy ass over there and take of this for us. Many thanks now, Get Er Done
1998 Seattle 7-21
2000 Seattle 11-06
2003 Seattle Benaroya 10-22
2005 Gorge 9-1
2006 Gorge 7-23
Simply out of curiosity... you stated that there are 6 generations of Military in your family... something to be proud of, indeed... are you the Sixth? Which branch? Were you in the Gulf War?
Thanx.
Hail, Hail!!!
isn't it sad that people can not live in this world and be free? do they want a dictator to tell them what to watch, read, listen, think? I hope not. trying to spread freedom is a noble cause.
Dude, it's not that simple. Look at the situation in Iraq. The American democracy has caused sectarian violence, it's caused the military and police to step down as Islamic extremists gain power over their regions.
Iraq is not a liberated american democracy, it's a civil war. Open your eyes!
history has yet to determine the outcome in Iraq. i'm not disagreeing with you, nor was I disagreeing with the previous post of yours I quoted. I was saying its sad some of thse troubled people dont know the difference between religous extremism and freedom. hopefully america can open THEIR eyes and free them from the grip of the quran. can it be done? i really dont know anymore.
I don't think so. Islam is the fastest growing, largest religion in the world, with over 1.6 billion followers.
Good Luck!
If I had my way there wouldn't be any religion at all.
Trust me... if we were sending 500,000 front line U.S. troops to that fucking place to seal it up so we don't have to send our guys back... in flag draped coffins, two at a time... for fucking forever... give me a fucking M-16 and point me towards the transport.
I am SICK of this two bit piece of shit police action in that shithole over there. I am SICK of Bush's 'Stay The Course' shit... and SICK of Rumsfled's 'Army we got' shit. They cannot be serious about their 'War on terror' if they are fighting it with reserves and National Guardsmen instead for the fucking first stringers.
Right now we are referees in a fucking street fight with no rules. Fuck that place and fuck our leaders for getting our military chest deep in the shit.
Hail, Hail!!!
slow down buddy. I thought Islam was a peaceful religion? of course I'm ok with that. have at it. its the extreme interperation of the quran that cuases problems. much like the extreme way some interput the bible. thankfully the bible doesnt ask to spread the religion by the sword.
Neither does the Qu'ran
By the way America was founded on Democracy and has 200 years to get used to it.
Iraq has had democracy for 2 years and has been under dictatorial rule up until now.
Do you honestly expect Iraqi people to adjust that easily?
actually yes it does.
and no of course not, its a struggle, but in the end may be well worth it for the people of iraq to be free. and not be forced to have a picture of their leader on their wall at all times.
You may be able to change the 'leaders' in Iraq... but, do you believe you can change their culture? Can you at least imagine the pictures of Saddam Hussein being replaced by the pictures of Muqtada al Sadr or the Ayatolllah du Jour? And you do realize that there is a distinct possibility that the 60%+ majority Shi'ite (note: Hezbollah is shi'ite... and so is Iran) will democratically elect a fundamentalist Islamic cleric to lead them?
Is Democracy in a Theocratic state possible?
Hail, Hail!!!
yea they are some fucked up people over there. I think Iraq is on the right track leadership wise. they need to find a way to bring together both sides. I think its going to take the top clerics to get together and shake hands. if that can somehow happen, I think Iraq has a good shot at a peaceful free democratic country.
But, at what cost? And for how long?
I know that all nations suffer a period of instability before they get up and stabilized... but, what will a stable Iraq look like... realistically, not just in a wishful thinking way. Does anyone believe they will set aside their religious beliefs in favor of capitalism? Maybe in 100 years or so... are we willing to stay there forever?
Hail, Hail!!!
well by the looks of it they have until the end of bush's term. if dems win, every solider will be gone by december 1st 2008.
to answer your question. I dont know. history will only show us the answer.
Point is, taking out Saddam unleashed the Islamic Extremists into society. They now control various regions of Iraq, meanwhile the U.S. military stands by and does nothing. Because there is nothing they can do. Saddam was a bad guy, but he maintained order over the country. Now they just have war and violence and out of all that will arise a new dictator or Islamic leadership.
The situation will only be worse than it was with Saddam. The states goal of wiping out terrorism by taking down Saddam was a reverse of actuality. Because in actuality taking out Saddam gave rise to terrorist groups in Iraq.
none of this is fact and has yet to be seen. except saddam being a bad guy. new dictator will arise? thats your assumption. the us military is doing nothing? thats an ignorant statement. I dont think the soliders returning from there would agree with you.
the situation will be worse then when saddam was there? do you know how any mass graves were found ? he killed an estimated 400,000 people.
http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/legacyofterror.html
I am ready and willing to give Iraq more time to become a unifed country. I think they have a chance.
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-4807937952989794806&q=Iraq+the+reckoning