Discussing how buisness works in much of Western Europe.
Pacomc79
Posts: 9,404
Taken from an interesting blog, not my work )
European business model
Which economic system will be more successful over the long-term - European diversity or the US world power approach?
Dutch author Donald Kalff expresses a clear opinion.
When Donald Kalff talks about the business world, it's not possible to overlook his vast experience. Kalff was a top manager at several international companies. These included companies such as Royal Dutch/Shell and the Dutch Airline KLM, where he served on the management board. It's therefore somewhat surprising when the former executive and professor at Leiden University proclaims that "the American shareholder value approach is flawed."
The concept has been basically misappropriated by investors and shareholders, managing without any foresight. Instead, they are more interested in squeezing the greatest possible amount of profit out of a company in the shortest amount of time.
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Successful European companies are geared toward long-term value. They believe that value is found in people and their cooperation, not technical or financial resources...
The author provides new visions on the strengths of Europe's economy. He addresses the possibility of creating a sustainable form of capitalism with a distinct European character.
Donald Kalff is CEO of the Immpact biotech company. He is associated with Roland Berger Strategy Consultants and Guest Professor at Leiden University School of Management. His book, "An UnAmerican Business: The Rise of the New European Enterprise Model," is published by Kogan Page, ISBN: 0749444908.
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I'm quite interested in sustainable slow growth business plans that put an emphasis on quality and culture. Perhaps because the US is a melting pot and a risk based culture, we tend to want to have the fastest, largest, best everything and lose some the cultural aspect of food, crafts etc in translation while at the same time inventing new innovative ways to do things... I have thought for a long time that the US economy was out of control and growth was unrealistic and unfounded built up on bad risk. Then again you don't have to be very smart to know that the average person having 8 Grand worth of credit debt and 93% not paying thier account off every month is a sign of bad things to come. Clearly we have come to a point where yet again we have an issue. One of the great things about the US is choice and diversity of culture and food. You can pretty much get a good example of any countries culture in the world if you know where to look but at the same time it becomes increasingly hard to find or large chain stores which take over don't carry items because there isn't a large group of people who want it so it ceases to be carried at least in an area of the country with a small amount of people.
I wonder how we can get from large industry being the bulk of the economy and retail back to small neighborhood shops and still keep goods and services affordable. Or is that even possible?
I guess, one other question would be, commute times, and how far people live away from where they live, work and shop. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest it's much shorter in most of Europe.
European business model
Which economic system will be more successful over the long-term - European diversity or the US world power approach?
Dutch author Donald Kalff expresses a clear opinion.
When Donald Kalff talks about the business world, it's not possible to overlook his vast experience. Kalff was a top manager at several international companies. These included companies such as Royal Dutch/Shell and the Dutch Airline KLM, where he served on the management board. It's therefore somewhat surprising when the former executive and professor at Leiden University proclaims that "the American shareholder value approach is flawed."
The concept has been basically misappropriated by investors and shareholders, managing without any foresight. Instead, they are more interested in squeezing the greatest possible amount of profit out of a company in the shortest amount of time.
...
Successful European companies are geared toward long-term value. They believe that value is found in people and their cooperation, not technical or financial resources...
The author provides new visions on the strengths of Europe's economy. He addresses the possibility of creating a sustainable form of capitalism with a distinct European character.
Donald Kalff is CEO of the Immpact biotech company. He is associated with Roland Berger Strategy Consultants and Guest Professor at Leiden University School of Management. His book, "An UnAmerican Business: The Rise of the New European Enterprise Model," is published by Kogan Page, ISBN: 0749444908.
_____________________________________________________________
I'm quite interested in sustainable slow growth business plans that put an emphasis on quality and culture. Perhaps because the US is a melting pot and a risk based culture, we tend to want to have the fastest, largest, best everything and lose some the cultural aspect of food, crafts etc in translation while at the same time inventing new innovative ways to do things... I have thought for a long time that the US economy was out of control and growth was unrealistic and unfounded built up on bad risk. Then again you don't have to be very smart to know that the average person having 8 Grand worth of credit debt and 93% not paying thier account off every month is a sign of bad things to come. Clearly we have come to a point where yet again we have an issue. One of the great things about the US is choice and diversity of culture and food. You can pretty much get a good example of any countries culture in the world if you know where to look but at the same time it becomes increasingly hard to find or large chain stores which take over don't carry items because there isn't a large group of people who want it so it ceases to be carried at least in an area of the country with a small amount of people.
I wonder how we can get from large industry being the bulk of the economy and retail back to small neighborhood shops and still keep goods and services affordable. Or is that even possible?
I guess, one other question would be, commute times, and how far people live away from where they live, work and shop. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest it's much shorter in most of Europe.
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Comments
1. I can buy that, but premising the comments with the 'ugly american capitalist' attitude makes me wary at once.
2. is a platitude with a Euro slant
3. Euros seem to forget that they are relative babies in free market capitalism, they should listen a little more to their parents.
4. well, we have as much of that as we want. We have Ebay, craigslist, independent outlets. If there were more demand for a given product, that product would be IN the wal-mart. everything is accessible to everyone and it's not that hard to find. Not to mention the growing small business sector in the US
5. your limb broke and you're falling. We commute because we are free to do so, not because we are bound by the economy to do so. But what do I know, I work at home and set my own hours. My life sucks...
their parents are fat alcoholic deadbeats who have just been financially rescued by their 'babies'.
3. Wow I don't know wether I should be shocked by the arrogance or grateful That I live in a baby free market. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania
5. You commute because you have the means to be free to it. Some people commute because they don't have the money or capacity to do otherwise. I know we are all free to get off our asses and start working for what we want but people in the real world actually have to deal with problems due to events not of their doing.
the bailout sucks, but to say the EU helped us is that regard is just flat wrong.
The EU has a birthrate that is unsustainable, which means an aging population with less young workers to support them, which leads to a larger welfare roll and a erosion of the ability to pay for such welfare. Sure jobs will be abundant, with all the good that will do since noone will be capable of filling them.
The end result is going bankrupt. Probably need to fix your problem before you fix ours.
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?t=0&v=31&l=en
Notice how all of the Muslim coutries' birthrates are skyrocketing, while those of western civilizations is near the bottom?
"We're the ones who will change you." Norwegiam imam Mullah Krekar told the Oslo newspaper Dagblader in 2006. "Just look at the development within Europe where the number of Muslims is expanding like mosquitos. Every Western woman in the EU is producing an average of 1.4 children. Every Muslim woman in the same countries is producing 3.5 children." As he summed it up "Our way of thinking will prove more powerful than yours."
My intention was not to pit the European business model against the American business model in some sort of pissing contest. Merely to discuss differences and or perceived differences.
I wonder how it works getting business loans in europe and how connected it is with the government and what kind of local codes there are etc.
The values system is obviously different. The US has only existed for around 240 years. The idea that Europe hasn't had some form of capitalism for longer is a fallacy. The people who set up our system were Europeans modelling thier government on ancient cultures from Greece and Rome. I don't live there so I wonder what the effects are especially in the countries that now use the Euro, so on and so forth.
I do not care to debate the merits of captialism vs socialism. That's a little boring, and no country is a pure version of either that I know of in existance.
I am free to do it because I had the BALLS to do it, becuase I could overcome circumstances NOT OF MY DOING. I had a 9 to 5 at one time. I CHOSE a better way for myself.
If out founders lacked the ability to overcome 'events not of their doing'
we'd still be flying that tyrannical flag. Thanks for playing
Thats part of what being American is all about. Glad you live over there.
what are you on about? part of being an american means the opportunity for some home-working?
someone better tell my uncle here in Scotland... he's been doing it for over 12 years.
while we have much work to do, you will be coming our way before we go yours.
:rolleyes:
and this is why people all over the world think america is the worlds most arrogant country ever constructed.. haven't you got flags to iron?
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And could you please explicit what being american is all about I didn't understand that part?
While the US being a great society, the title "the greatest" should be left open for discussion.
so wrong:
the founding fathers live with us everyday as long as we are mindful of their accomplishments and what they stood for. Basically, if you think they are dead, then you need an education
your 'environment and disabilities' argument is an insult to those who overcame such obstacles (I am deeply offended), and you should be ashamed of yourself for talking that way.
"And could you please explicit what being american is all about I didn't understand that part?" and you probably never will. sad for you.
how many immigrants are missing the next train here if offered the ticket? Didnt think so.
Even with birthrates going down, there's still people from other countries (nowadays often Eastern Europe) to fill the jobs, many don't want to do.
And including some Norwegiam (what's NorwegiaM?) imam into this to me sounds as fear mongering. Yea these groups are growing faster than the original inhabitants, but they are still a minority. And as every generation integrates more to western standards and way of life, they will get less children.
I would agree a market purely based on making a profit will implode as it's exploits all resources available to it, and short term managers only see profit as the highest goal instead of the continuity of the organization. Maybe the market can correct itself, taking a bigger risk investing in a company that could sky rocket or crash on the short term doesn't sound as solid as investing in a company with a decades old way of doing business and making a lower but more consistent profit.
How this can be translated to small neighborhood shops I don't know. It's the same on your side, we want to 1 stop shop in the limited time available. My personal situation doesn't apply well to this (the company I work for is a 10 minute walk), some of my friends work in other cities and their commute times rise up to an hour and half max. What's reasonable at your side?
If it sounds fear mongering, talk to the guy who actually SAID it, not me.
Assimilation is very hard to accomplish if you don't have a population willing to be assimilated, see the quote from the Imam. read it again very carefully:
"We're the ones who will change you." "Just look at the development within Europe where the number of Muslims is expanding like mosquitos. Every Western woman in the EU is producing an average of 1.4 children. Every Muslim woman in the same countries is producing 3.5 children." As he summed it up "Our way of thinking will prove more powerful than yours."
While we should set the example, we can only include those who wish to follow it.
Now, as for your eastern euros, they are in even WORSE shape with delining birthrates and an influx of Muslim population. Which might explain their immigration to western europe.
Still don't think so? A more graphical representation might be helpful...
http://www.indexmundi.com/map/?t=0&v=31&r=xx&l=en
your conclusion that they "will get less children" is naive.
Let me remind you of another thing you said a few days ago:
And below you say that America is the greatest country in the world?
The first two, well....you just are misinformed about. Maybe it comes with the whole the US is the greatest place on earth philosophy. Now don't get me wrong, I like the US but I think for anyone to say that such and such country is the greatest in the world is incredibly narrow minded and arrogant.
As for Europeans not helping out, let me remind you that they (6 or 7 countries) put aside $2.3 trillion to unfreeze credit markets vs. the $0.7 trillion the US provided.
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If you'd read my response, I indicated that involving some imam looks like fear mongering. I also don't understand how you can take something some guy said as an absolute truth or take him as a spokesperson for a whole group of people.
From my own experience, working with and leading a 400+ group of people of which is about a 1/3 of Arabic / North African decent I can tell you that the large majority is at an age their parents already had 3 children, they are working on a carrier and studying hard, and are as or more capitalistic as you and me are. They know a big family comes with big costs, and they like designer clothing and nice cars. Alright they're not having a lot of children, but I suspect the point you're trying to make is that in Western Europe less people will be paying for an increasing group of elders. That's why the system is and has been changing for quite a while.
Tell me about this influx of Muslim immigrants in Eastern Europe?
thats funny, you go through Italy, to Belgium, and wind up in Detroit of all places and have the audacity to call the US just a nice place? Craziness.
I don't care how much money the EU put up. That was for YOUR economy anyway. In the end, it's people who did it right (like myself, and hopefully yourself) who will be providing the relief.
There is a tone of 'ugly america' that pervades this message board. So excuse my arrogance in pointing out the FACTS and giving proper perspective.
honestly, we really don't care what you think about our arrogance. France, Poland and the UK certainly had no problem with it in the 40's.
now that's not to say we haven't had some foolish leaders doing foolish things lately. let's be real. And that's not to say that the US is the only great country. There are other great countries. But again:
what immigrant is missing the next train here if offerd the ticket? anyone?
didn't think so.
Arrogance my ass, but you can have your humility and your declining birth rates and your socialism. I'll keep my "arrogance"
- edit, for the sake of the original topic, let's not involve WWII etc. I actually saw a news report that immigrants are reluctant to come to the US now that the economy is going down. So you're wrong there, the crisis might be a solution to illegal immigration tho, safe some money on the fence.
In regards to the original topic I think some modesty (not making the biggest profit immediately) or more eye for continuity (as we have here) would be a change for the better in the US market now. If your higher birth rates and poverty inclines you to say you live in the greatest country in the world, go ahead, I'll stick with some humility and 'socialism'. Tho I too can easily state my country is the greatest country in the world too, but don't because I'm critical too, something you don't seem to be of your own country.
But in all honesty we will have to agree that if we look at the map, Russia is the greatest country in the world.
And btw you haven't answered an earlier answer.
Like I said, there are worse places than the Netherlands.
I am critical of many in LEADERSHIP, but I'll take that up with them, not you.
We're supposed to be critical of our leadership though, as one of our obligations to preserve all this. And we have tools to do that.
I'll let the rest of your comments pass...
Interesting, same here actually. I'm around 10 minutes for my commute but the average one here is around an hour and a half with some spanning almost 4 reasonable times are generally in the 1.5 hour range for most people. I used to do that but I don't want to live that far away anymore.
How many immigrants would be ready to move in any "rich western country" if given the opportunity? usa is a great country which showed the rest of the world many examples since the 200 years it existed, some to follow, others not to much.
Sorry to the OP for the highjack.
I commute 1h20 min per day, and I'm considered lucky, most of my co-workers have 2h, but I live in a fairly big town.
the Romans or the Greeks were... maybe the Egyptians... certainly not the US... the Romans and the Egyptians gave the world so much.. far more than the US has ever done.
Great Britain once ruled the world not that long ago... their Empire was 1/3rd of the globe... their advancements not only in industry but in business, economics, medicine, etc are still used today.
your constant looking into a mirror gets boring.
it is a nice place.
what FACTS have you pointed out?
I don't know if its that different with the US, or if our corporations here are honestly more interested in the long-term (I wouldn't be to sure) but what I know for sure is different is that people here tend to save way more than in the US. There is so much pressure, culturally and from the state, against massive indebtedness (is that a word?) - a monthly rate of more than 33% your income - that it's a limited phenomenon. Well it was until very recently at least.