Luis Posada Carriles - terrorist or not?

blackredyellowblackredyellow Posts: 5,889
edited October 2006 in A Moving Train
I guess if they were working with/for our governement, we don't classify them as terrorists...


Documents: CIA warned of plane bomb plot

By ANDREW O. SELSKY, Associated Press Writer Tue Oct 10, 6:58 AM ET

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico - An anti-Castro militant now in a Texas jail warned the
CIA months before the 1976 bombing of a Cuban airliner that fellow exiles were planning such an attack, according to a newly released U.S. government document.

The document shows that Luis Posada Carriles — who had worked for the CIA but was cut off by the agency earlier that year — was secretly telling the CIA that his fellow far-right Cuban exiles opposed to
Fidel Castro's communist government were plotting to bring down a commercial jet.

The document does not say what the CIA did with Posada's tip. A CIA spokesman said he had no comment on Monday, a federal holiday.

The CIA had extensive contacts with anti-Castro militants and trained some of them, but has denied involvement in the bombing.

The documents were posted online Thursday by the National Security Archive, an independent research institute at George Washington University that seeks to declassify government files through the Freedom of Information Act.

The Cubana Airlines plane, on a flight from Venezuela to Cuba, blew up shortly after taking off from a stopover in Barbados on Oct. 6, 1976, killing all 73 aboard, including Cuba's Olympic fencing team.

The bombing remains an open wound in Cuba. Weeping relatives of the victims met in a Havana cemetery on Friday, the 30th anniversary of the bombing. They demanded that Posada — who is now 78 and in a Texas detention center on an immigration violation — be put on trial.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez is seeking the extradition of Posada, a naturalized Venezuelan who served as the country's counterintelligence chief. He accuses the U.S. government of protecting a terrorist.

The National Security Archive's Peter Kornbluh urged the U.S. government to tell everything it knows about Posada.

"Now is the time for the government to come clean on Posada's covert past and his involvement in international terrorism," Kornbluh said. "His victims, the public, and the courts have a right to know."

Separating deception from truth in the intelligence world is notoriously difficult, and the newly released documents contain mixed messages about Posada. Much remains murky.

In a report dated a month after the bombing, then
FBI Director Clarence Kelly told Secretary of State Henry Kissinger that a confidential FBI source ascertained the bombing had been planned in Caracas by Posada, Venezuelan intelligence agency official Ricardo Morales Navarrete and Cuban exile Frank Castro, who is not related to the Cuban leader.

Two Venezuelan employees of Posada's private security agency were arrested in Trinidad the day after the bombing, and one of them — who said he had worked for the CIA — admitted the two had planted the bomb, documents posted by the National Security Archive show.

Posada trained with the CIA for the 1961 Bay of Pigs invasion and served in the U.S. Army in the early 1960s. In 1965, he allegedly plotted to overthrow the Guatemalan government and blow up a Soviet or Cuban freighter in Mexico, according to the FBI. In 1967, he moved to Venezuela, eventually leading its counterintelligence agency, and was running his own security firm in the mid-1970s.

In 1973, Posada was investigated by the CIA for allegedly smuggling cocaine, but was cleared after he convinced interrogators he was "guilty of only having the wrong kind of friends," a declassified document says. The same document says the CIA "formally terminated" its relationship with him on Feb. 13, 1976.

Yet Posada still contacted the agency.

"After 2/76 contacts with (deleted by censors) were at Posada's own initiative to volunteer information in exchange for assistance U.S. visa for self and family," said the document, an annotated list of still-secret records on Posada's CIA career that was marked "sanitized."

It tells how Posada contacted the CIA in February 1976 to describe an assassination plot by Orlando Bosch and Frank Castro, two fellow right-wing Cuban exiles, against leftist Andres Pascal Allende, the nephew of slain Chilean President Salvador Allende. Posada worried that his allies would discover he was giving up their secrets.

"Posada concerned that Bosch will blame Posada for leak of plans," the report says. Andres Allende was not assassinated, and it is unclear whether the Cuban exiles ever made an attempt on his life.

Then, four months later, Posada came back to tell of a sinister plot to blow up an airliner.

On June 22, 1976, "Posada again contacts (deleted by censor) reptd info concerning possible exile plans to blow up Cubana Airliner leaving Panama and requested visa assistacne," read the document, filled with typographical errors.

Shortly after, a bomb aboard a Cubana Airlines plane leaving Panama failed to detonate, and the following month, a bomb in a suitcase exploded before being loaded onto a Cubana plane leaving Jamaica, according to a confidential State Department memo previously posted by the National Security Archive.

The day after the Cubana Airlines flight was bombed near Barbados, the CIA tried unsuccessfully to contact Posada, according to the annotated list. Five days later, Posada was arrested in Venezuela. He denied involvement in the bombing and escaped from prison in 1985 before a civilian trial was completed.

Allegations that he masterminded mass murder did not keep U.S. covert operatives from hiring Posada again. Within months, he was delivering weapons to Nicaraguan Contra rebels in an illegal Reagan administration operation. Posada also acknowledged, and then denied, a role in Havana hotel bombings in 1997 that killed a tourist.

And in 2000, Posada was arrested for allegedly plotting to assassinate Castro during a summit in Panama. He was pardoned in 2004 by then Panamanian President Mireya Moscoso.

Posada was detained in Florida in May 2005 for entering the United States illegally. A U.S. immigration judge has ruled that he cannot be sent to Cuba or Venezuela, citing fears that he would be tortured.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061010/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cuba_cia_plane_bombing_8
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Comments

  • He's a terrorist. And the US is protecting him. kind of ironic huh?
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    Posada was detained in Florida in May 2005 for entering the United States illegally. A U.S. immigration judge has ruled that he cannot be sent to Cuba or Venezuela, citing fears that he would be tortured.

    this is the best line there! ... what a joke!
  • I dont know why the main stream media doesnt focus more on this story. Its a perfect example that a reporter could use to make this administration look bad. given they dont need alot of help. But it clearly shows the a contradiction in their policies.
  • Im bumping this because this is clear evidence that the US is harboring a admitted terrorist and yet no one seems to care.
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    Im bumping this because this is clear evidence that the US is harboring a admitted terrorist and yet no one seems to care.

    clearly you are anti-american and that all your records should be burned and that you need psychological help ... ;)

    the hypocrisy is endless ... no one cares because it would force them to actually do something about it ... much easier to sit back and pretend that we are good and can do no wrong ...
  • polaris wrote:
    clearly you are anti-american and that all your records should be burned and that you need psychological help ... ;)

    the hypocrisy is endless ... no one cares because it would force them to actually do something about it ... much easier to sit back and pretend that we are good and can do no wrong ...



    HYPOCRISY.

    What is amazing is that this imformation is actually backed by official goverment documents.
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    HYPOCRISY.

    What is amazing is that this imformation is actually backed by official goverment documents.

    c'mon ... where else can a gov't suffer the scandals this one has and still be in power?? ... lies about this lies about that ... frig ... they lied to go to war ... you would think that would be a bad thing ... but not there apparently ...
  • polaris wrote:
    c'mon ... where else can a gov't suffer the scandals this one has and still be in power?? ... lies about this lies about that ... frig ... they lied to go to war ... you would think that would be a bad thing ... but not there apparently ...



    This goes to show that the democrats are no better or a just as guilty as the republicans. Like you said there are son many things that this admisntration can be held responsible for and the dems dont do shit.There is no two party system anymore they have morphed into one giant corporation and control the worlds most powerfull country. I think it has been like this for a long time now.
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    Im bumping this because this is clear evidence that the US is harboring a admitted terrorist and yet no one seems to care.


    i've posted about this several times, and you're right, no one really seems to care outside a few
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    polaris wrote:
    clearly you are anti-american and that all your records should be burned and that you need psychological help ... ;)

    the hypocrisy is endless ... no one cares because it would force them to actually do something about it ... much easier to sit back and pretend that we are good and can do no wrong ...

    So its cool to freak out on others for making these sorts of generalizations, but its OK when you do it?
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    And yes, of course this man is a terrorist, if he was conspiring to blow up an airliner full of non-combatants.
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    And yes, of course this man is a terrorist, if he was conspiring to blow up an airliner full of non-combatants.


    he didn't just conspire he did it!! they also assasinated a foreign diplomat we didn't like while he was in dc
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • And yes, of course this man is a terrorist, if he was conspiring to blow up an airliner full of non-combatants.




    He actually called the CIA the day before and told them what his intentions were and he then went on to blowing up a plane full of civilians. After that he put bombs on other planes which thankfully didnt go off or detenated before they where aboard the planes. He put a bomb on a Cuban hotel killing an Italian turist and I could go on for awhile. This is a very bad man.
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    He actually called the CIA the day before and told them what his intentions were and he then went on to blowing up a plane full of civilians. After that he put bombs on other planes which thankfully didnt go off or detenated before they where aboard the planes. He put a bomb on a Cuban hotel killing an Italian turist and I could go on for awhile. This is a very bad man.

    He deserves to be treated like any other terrorist. I am in total agreement with you guys on this one.
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    Let's not forget about Orlando Bosch who was also involved in the Air Cubana bombing and the Orlando Letelier assasination. He is walking around South Florida a free man because he was pardoned by Bush senior.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • I'm sure theres gong to be someone who is blindly going to defend the actions that 'our' government has taken.
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    I'm not going to blindly defend anyone here. But I am going to defend these men called terrorists. Hear me out before you label me please.

    These men were employed by government to carry out acts of terrorism. So the government is to be blamed. These men were performing acts for their country, they may not have fully understood what they were doing either. If it can be proven that these men were performing terrorism to their knowledge and without the sanctions of the CIA then they are to blame. Though it looks like the CIA and the Government are to blame for these people.

    To another poster that said Democrats are no better. I think most people are in agreeance with you. I certainly am. I think the two-party system is seriously flawed. Canada has a multi-party system, but it's not much better. I think the NDP and maybe the Bloc have gained a minority government once or twice, but Liberals and Conservatives rule the government. We essentially have a two-party system, because it's nearly impossible for a party like CAP, The Green Party or The Canadian Christian Party to ever win. People think in terms of Liberal or Conservative, because the vast majority of voters don't read. They don't know anything about the people they are voting for. This past election I asked people "Who did you vote for?" most said "Conservative" so I asked "Why?" and they said "I don't know". The Cons ran a really good campaign and that's what got them elected. They only had an awesome campaign because they have a lot of contributions, I didn't see one TV add for CAP. The only TV spots were for Liberal, Conservative or NDP. All the debates were Liberal, Conservative, NDP and Bloc.

    It's all fucked up anyway.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    HYPOCRISY.

    What is amazing is that this imformation is actually backed by official goverment documents.

    Anf the Cuban 5 continue to sit in American jails. Yet it was these 5 people who were trying to protect their people from terrorism.
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I'm not going to blindly defend anyone here. But I am going to defend these men called terrorists. Hear me out before you label me please.

    These men were employed by government to carry out acts of terrorism. So the government is to be blamed. These men were performing acts for their country, they may not have fully understood what they were doing either. If it can be proven that these men were performing terrorism to their knowledge and without the sanctions of the CIA then they are to blame. Though it looks like the CIA and the Government are to blame for these people.

    To another poster that said Democrats are no better. I think most people are in agreeance with you. I certainly am. I think the two-party system is seriously flawed. Canada has a multi-party system, but it's not much better. I think the NDP and maybe the Bloc have gained a minority government once or twice, but Liberals and Conservatives rule the government. We essentially have a two-party system, because it's nearly impossible for a party like CAP, The Green Party or The Canadian Christian Party to ever win. People think in terms of Liberal or Conservative, because the vast majority of voters don't read. They don't know anything about the people they are voting for. This past election I asked people "Who did you vote for?" most said "Conservative" so I asked "Why?" and they said "I don't know". The Cons ran a really good campaign and that's what got them elected. They only had an awesome campaign because they have a lot of contributions, I didn't see one TV add for CAP. The only TV spots were for Liberal, Conservative or NDP. All the debates were Liberal, Conservative, NDP and Bloc.

    It's all fucked up anyway.


    no, they are to blame...they were part of operation condor and were working for other regimes as well as the cia.

    how can you plan bombs on airliners and not fully know what you are doing? how can you blow up a hotel and not know fully what you are doing? how can you assasinate a diplomat and not fully know what you are doing? the cia knew of the assasination, they didn't do anything until Letelier was killed. there was an american politician (ed koch> they also wanted to kill, they did something to stop that, but not Letelier's assasination
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    So its cool to freak out on others for making these sorts of generalizations, but its OK when you do it?

    i guess the winky face didn't indicate the sarcasm?? ... good grief
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    El_Kabong wrote:
    no, they are to blame...they were part of operation condor and were working for other regimes as well as the cia.

    how can you plan bombs on airliners and not fully know what you are doing? how can you blow up a hotel and not know fully what you are doing? how can you assasinate a diplomat and not fully know what you are doing? the cia knew of the assasination, they didn't do anything until Letelier was killed. there was an american politician (ed koch> they also wanted to kill, they did something to stop that, but not Letelier's assasination

    Just to add to what you have already stated, it was Pinochet who actually hired Posada and Bosch to carry out the Letelier assasination.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I'm not going to blindly defend anyone here. But I am going to defend these men called terrorists. Hear me out before you label me please.

    These men were employed by government to carry out acts of terrorism. So the government is to be blamed. These men were performing acts for their country, they may not have fully understood what they were doing either. If it can be proven that these men were performing terrorism to their knowledge and without the sanctions of the CIA then they are to blame. Though it looks like the CIA and the Government are to blame for these people.

    To another poster that said Democrats are no better. I think most people are in agreeance with you. I certainly am. I think the two-party system is seriously flawed. Canada has a multi-party system, but it's not much better. I think the NDP and maybe the Bloc have gained a minority government once or twice, but Liberals and Conservatives rule the government. We essentially have a two-party system, because it's nearly impossible for a party like CAP, The Green Party or The Canadian Christian Party to ever win. People think in terms of Liberal or Conservative, because the vast majority of voters don't read. They don't know anything about the people they are voting for. This past election I asked people "Who did you vote for?" most said "Conservative" so I asked "Why?" and they said "I don't know". The Cons ran a really good campaign and that's what got them elected. They only had an awesome campaign because they have a lot of contributions, I didn't see one TV add for CAP. The only TV spots were for Liberal, Conservative or NDP. All the debates were Liberal, Conservative, NDP and Bloc.

    It's all fucked up anyway.

    What about the string of bombings at Cuban resorts that Posada carried out in 1997 that resulted in the death of an Italian tourist. By that point he was no longer in the employ of the CIA. I can see your point that the government(s) that employedd these men to carry out these acts should be held responsible but that does not relieve them of their responsibilities. They willingly took the job to blow up an airliner with 73 people on board. These men are terrorists and while many people sit at home praising our government for fighting the War on Terror that very same government harbors two well known terrorists and refuses to let justice be served.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    mammasan wrote:
    I can see your point that the government(s) that employedd these men to carry out these acts should be held responsible but that does not relieve them of their responsibilities.

    hence why they are finding safe shelter in the US ... they aren't terrorists if they do the bidding of the CIA or the US gov't ...
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    polaris wrote:
    hence why they are finding safe shelter in the US ... they aren't terrorists if they do the bidding of the CIA or the US gov't ...

    Well of course to the US government they aren't terrorist because of that double standard we employ. To the rest of the world, especially to the families who's loved ones they killed, they are definetly terrorist.

    I wonder how US citizens would react in the governments of all the countries who have been victims of our state sponsored terrorism where to suddenly form a Coalition of the Willing and state that you are either with them or against them and that they make no distinction between a country who sponsors terrorism and one that harbors them, them again our government is guilty of both.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    mammasan wrote:
    Well of course to the US government they aren't terrorist because of that double standard we employ. To the rest of the world, especially to the families who's loved ones they killed, they are definetly terrorist.

    I wonder how US citizens would react in the governments of all the countries who have been victims of our state sponsored terrorism where to suddenly form a Coalition of the Willing and state that you are either with them or against them and that they make no distinction between a country who sponsors terrorism and one that harbors them, them again our government is guilty of both.

    that is the point of this thread i guess ... like so many other things - its much easier to ignore it ...
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    polaris wrote:
    ... like so many other things - its much easier to ignore it ...

    Too true.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • polaris wrote:
    that is the point of this thread i guess ... like so many other things - its much easier to ignore it ...




    The US harbors terrorist?!! Holy Shit! Paris Hilton lost her dog!! what will she do?!! Oh wait there's at sale at Penny's!!
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    The US harbors terrorist?!! Holy Shit! Paris Hilton lost her dog!! what will she do?!! Oh wait there's at sale at Penny's!!

    Last year Posada's extradition hearing received near zero coverage. No discussion about his involvement in the Cubana Air bombing or Letelier assasination. Now Paris Hilton getting a DUI that's covered adnausium.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • mammasan wrote:
    Last year Posada's extradition hearing received near zero coverage. No discussion about his involvement in the Cubana Air bombing or Letelier assasination. Now Paris Hilton getting a DUI that's covered adnausium.

    That just goes to show the press needs to get their heads out of their culo
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    I'm sure theres gong to be someone who is blindly going to defend the actions that 'our' government has taken.

    OK, someone's got to say it, and it might as well be me.
    Most of the people who make blanket statements on here are NOT unequivocal supporters of the Bush government. Sure, there are a few. But most people prone to making "blind" comments are on the other end of the political spectrum. I think its telling that most on the "right" here either haven't commented or have come right out and said that this guy is indeed a terrorist.
    Keep waiting, in other words.
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