I don't get how we failed with North Korea???

LikeAnOcean

Everyone keeps putting the blame on one another. Besides attacking it, How do you persuade it not to do as it pleases???

Fucking democrats blaming Bush and fucking republicans blaming Clinton..

All idiots in my mind.

People minus common sense = politics

gimmesometruth27

i don't see it as a failure. a sovreign nation is entitled to do whatever it wants. it is beholding nothing to us. its not the responsibility of the US to stick our noses into their business and prevent them from doing anything. IMO it was bound to happen sooner or later. it is the great equilizer. knowing they have the bomb and will use it on us if we invade is a pretty good deterrent to keep us from invading them. it gives them leverage in world affairs now i am sure.


** edit grammar

Ahnimus

LikeAnOcean wrote:

People minus common sense = politics

Ahahaha, Einstein would have loved that equation. He had his own, it goes People = Stupid.

"Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not so sure about the universe." ~ Albert Einstein

LikeAnOcean

Ahnimus wrote:

"Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not so sure about the universe." ~ Albert Einstein

I love that quote.

binauralsounds

LikeAnOcean wrote:

Everyone keeps putting the blame on one another. Besides attacking it, How do you persuade it not to do as it pleases???

Fucking democrats blaming Bush and fucking republicans blaming Clinton..

All idiots in my mind.

People minus common sense = politics

Once again, Nobody, No administration, can reason with EVIL!!!!!! Black and white tho many see it only as grey!

Ahnimus

binauralsounds wrote:

Once again, Nobody, No administration, can reason with EVIL!!!!!! Black and white tho many see it only as grey!

There is no such thing as evil

small town beck

If one country can do it, why can't another??? Because others say the country is unstable... well hello kettles?( don't get more wrong NK's leader seems more than a tad unstable ) Sure I understand the concern of neighbouring countries but if one country has them... why not all?? I would rather nobody had them and there was no need for such things but we don't seem to live in that kind of world... too bad really. We would have a really nice place here if people didn't keep destroying it :(

Very nice with the Einstein quote.

LikeAnOcean

binauralsounds wrote:

Once again, Nobody, No administration, can reason with EVIL!!!!!! Black and white tho many see it only as grey!

"Evil" is just a simplified explanation for stupid people.

If you can't understand what somebody does its easier for your mind to just give them a label. "Evil" works for alot of people.

Jon wing II or whatever his name is not evil. Just another messed up person.

HunterandHunted

oh come on...war in afghaneeestan and Iraq is getting pretty boring...a little oriental flavour in the mix might re-ignite the taste for war and liven up the news headlines a little....Give it a chance....H

sponger

After the cuban missile crisis, castro became a friggen celebrity. Jong Il just wants in on some of the action too. World leaders are all narcissists in their own way.

Pearl Jam and toast

LikeAnOcean wrote:

Everyone keeps putting the blame on one another. Besides attacking it, How do you persuade it not to do as it pleases???

Fucking democrats blaming Bush and fucking republicans blaming Clinton..

All idiots in my mind.

People minus common sense = politics

People - Common Sense = Congress. *

Politics are great, esp. the fun stupid kind Congress gives us every day.

HunterandHunted

sponger wrote:

After the cuban missile crisis, castro became a friggen celebrity. Jong Il just wants in on some of the action too. World leaders are all narcissists in their own way.

Beautiful sponger - hit the nail on the fuckin head....'I'm so wonwee, oh so wonwee...' Shame people don't understand the essence of narcissism and its manifestations...But then, a lot of people don't get greek tragedy either....lol H

Pearl Jam and toast

LikeAnOcean wrote:

"Evil" is just a simplified explanation for stupid people.

If you can't understand what somebody does its easier for your mind to just give them a label. "Evil" works for alot of people.

Jon wing II or whatever his name is not evil. Just another messed up person.

Looking at the situation from their point of view you can see why those people do what they do (some of it).... at least in relation to their stance on the US.

He's still insane, but Kim has reason to oppose/fear the USA. Hopefully China will keep him in check.

sponger

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

He's still insane, but Kim has reason to oppose/fear the USA. Hopefully China will keep him in check.

What reason is that?

Pearl Jam and toast

sponger wrote:

What reason is that?

What about the USA isn't a threat to a country like North Korea?

From Kim's point of view the USA rules the world with an iron fist (which is true to an extent). We're bullies who love to take the position "do what I say or else". And even if you do'nt believe that, from North Korea's point of view it makes a lot of sense.

That's not saying it's right or that Kim isn't a crazy mother fucker, but the fact that he has anti-american sentiments makes perfect sense even without the crazy.

Did you really have to ask that question?

sponger

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

From Kim's point of view ......and even if you do'nt believe that, from North Korea's point of view it makes a lot of sense.

That's not saying it's right or that Kim isn't a crazy mother fucker

In other words, he doesn't exactly have a reason. If you want to eliminate confusion, say exactly what you mean. If you want to say he has a reason other than it's "his point of view", then by all means share that reason. So, yes, you really do need to be asked that.

Pearl Jam and toast

sponger wrote:

In other words, he doesn't exactly have a reason. If you want to eliminate confusion, say exactly what you mean. If you want to say he has a reason other than it's "his point of view", then by all means share that reason. So, yes, you really do need to be asked that.

Where did you get "He doesn't have a reason" out of what I said?

His reason is fear. Period.

Want it simpler?

We're bullies. He's scared so he acts tough.

What's he scared of?

Military intervention maybe... losing his power.

Drop the nationalist defensive persona here, I'm not taking North Korea's side. I was just responding too/elaborating on something Like an Ocean posted (it's quoted).

So from "his point of view" the USA is a bully and a huge superpower who doesn't like him. :rolleyes:

That was pretty damn clear too, I thought I was stating the obvious. You just want to pick a fight.

sponger

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

He's still insane, but Kim has reason to oppose/fear the USA.

he's insane, but he has reason to oppose fear the usa...

And those reasons are strictly his point of view, uh, not your own....even though they're the opposite of "insane" as the "but" in your comment indicates. So, his fears are not insane, but they are not views that you share.

And you think you made that clear from the onset?

I think the problem is that you think his fears are legitimate, but you don't want to admit it's what you think. So, the end result is the garbling that you've been posting thus far in this thread. This garbling is the "from N Korea's standpoint, it makes sense" combined with the "I'm not necessarily saying it's right or wrong." Way to dance around having to be accountable for your own point of view.

You got caught with your pants down. Just live with it and stop trying to make a jerk out of me for being the one who caught it.

Pearl Jam and toast

sponger wrote:

he's insane, but he has reason to oppose fear the usa...

And those reasons are strictly his point of view, uh, not your own....even though they're the opposite of "insane" as the "but" in your comment indicates. So, his fears are not insane, but they are not views that you share.

And you think you made that clear from the onset?

I think the problem is that you think his fears are legitimate, but you don't want to admit it's what you think. So, the end result is the garbling that you've been posting thus far in this thread. This garbling is the "from N Korea's standpoint, it makes sense" combined with the "I'm not necessarily saying it's right or wrong." Way to dance around having to be accountable for your own point of view.

You got caught with your pants down. Just live with it and stop trying to make a jerk out of me for being the one who caught it.

oh quit being a jackass. You can understand someone's viewpoint without sharing it.

Ahnimus

chiefojibwa wrote:

another gem

if pro is the opposite of con, what is the opposite of progress?

Hahaha, I've never heard that one before, and it's great!

sponger

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

oh quit being a jackass. You can understand someone's viewpoint without sharing it.

lol...still dancing.

Let's go over your original statement one more time:

PJ&T wrote:

He's still insane, but Kim has reason to oppose/fear the USA.

I don't know where you learned to speak english, but if you think the above statement means that you understand where he's coming from, but don't agree with it, then you learned wrong.

Like I said before: If you want to eliminate confusion, just say exactly what you mean. And if someone down the line asks for clarification because you don't know how to communicate, then don't be a baby about it.

I think any rational person would have no problem answering a simple question without making defensive remarks such as, "Do you really need to ask?" and "I thought I made myself pretty damn clear."

I asked that simple question, and you went out of your way to try to make me look like an idiot. That only leaves me with the suspicion that you just want to dance your way around your own stupid comment. My advice is to own up to it and change yourself for the better before you get caught in another situation like this one in the future. It's really for the benefit of your own state of mind and out of courtesy to others.

moeaholic

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i don't see it as a failure. a sovreign nation is entitled to do whatever it wants. it is beholding nothing to us. its not the responsibility of the US to stick our noses into their business and prevent them from doing anything. IMO it was bound to happen sooner or later. it is the great equilizer. knowing they have the bomb and will use it on us if we invade is a pretty good deterrent to keep us from invading them. it gives them leverage in world affairs now i am sure.


** edit grammar

as far as i'm concerned, they hold no leverage if they can't get a missle to fire more than a couple hundred feet off the launchpad.

enharmonic

We didn't fail with N. Korea

So they have nukes. Big deal.

enharmonic

moeaholic wrote:

as far as i'm concerned, they hold no leverage if they can't get a missle to fire more than a couple hundred feet off the launchpad.

On the contrary, a missile is not the only way to deliver a nuclear payload. Shipping channels from the far east would present a particularly difficult scenario, that could end up costing hundreds of millions of dollars in additional security checks and sensory/detection equipment in far east ports.

Even then...no guarantees that they couldn't just float a nuke into the San Diego harbor. :(

moeaholic

enharmonic wrote:

On the contrary, a missile is not the only way to deliver a nuclear payload. Shipping channels from the far east would present a particularly difficult scenario, that could end up costing hundreds of millions of dollars in additional security checks and sensory/detection equipment in far east ports.

Even then...no guarantees that they couldn't just float a nuke into the San Diego harbor. :(

true, never thought about that. it's just with their failed missle tests in the past year that's all that was on my mind.

Cosmo

Our policy is:
You got no nukes... we'll attack you.
You got nukes... we'll negotiate with you.
...
Summary: You better get nukes, or else, we will attack you.

rebornFixer

Cosmo wrote:

Our policy is:
You got no nukes... we'll attack you.
You got nukes... we'll negotiate with you.
...
Summary: You better get nukes, or else, we will attack you.

Except that if this were 100% true, North Korea would have been attacked ages ago, before they had working nukes. Instead, round after round of talks did nothing. I am not saying that an attack would have been a good idea ... Just that this theory of countries protecting themselves is not quite on the mark. Diplomacy was tried with North korea for quite a long time, and it did nothing to stop this latest nuclear test.

Cosmo

reborncareerist wrote:

Except that if this were 100% true, North Korea would have been attacked ages ago, before they had working nukes. Instead, round after round of talks did nothing. I am not saying that an attack would have been a good idea ... Just that this theory of countries protecting themselves is not quite on the mark. Diplomacy was tried with North korea for quite a long time, and it did nothing to stop this latest nuclear test.

...
I'm saying, tongue in cheek, that this is the message we are sending out.
Korea now has a bargaining chip in the big game.
They know we would be insane to attack them militarily... sitting next door to fucking China. He HAVE to deal with them now, only difference... we are holding all of the chips anymore.
This also goes for Iran. When they get their nukes, they know they will have much more leverage against us.

rebornFixer

Cosmo wrote:

...
I'm saying, tongue in cheek, that this is the message we are sending out.
Korea now has a bargaining chip in the big game.
They know we would be insane to attack them militarily... sitting next door to fucking China. He HAVE to deal with them now, only difference... we are holding all of the chips anymore.
This also goes for Iran. When they get their nukes, they know they will have much more leverage against us.

Which is why I am concerned. Crazy fucks need less leverage, not more.

Abookamongstthemany

sponger wrote:

he's insane, but he has reason to oppose fear the usa...

And those reasons are strictly his point of view, uh, not your own....even though they're the opposite of "insane" as the "but" in your comment indicates. So, his fears are not insane, but they are not views that you share.

And you think you made that clear from the onset?

I think the problem is that you think his fears are legitimate, but you don't want to admit it's what you think. So, the end result is the garbling that you've been posting thus far in this thread. This garbling is the "from N Korea's standpoint, it makes sense" combined with the "I'm not necessarily saying it's right or wrong." Way to dance around having to be accountable for your own point of view.

You got caught with your pants down. Just live with it and stop trying to make a jerk out of me for being the one who caught it.

Every policy comes from someone's point of view. What, you think they use a magic 8ball? You can understand a point of view without sharing it, as well.

PaperPlates

LikeAnOcean wrote:

"Evil" is just a simplified explanation for stupid people.

If you can't understand what somebody does its easier for your mind to just give them a label. "Evil" works for alot of people.

Jon wing II or whatever his name is not evil. Just another messed up person.

Was hitler evil? Or was he just a messed up person? OR whas he an evil messed up person?