What pushes people to do this?

angelica

Boys will be boys.* Afterall, 1 in 4 females is sexually assaulted before she reaches adulthood, in North America. We are condoning this behaviour in numerous ways, inadvertently. I had my first childhood sexual assault--oral sodomy--at age 5, done by a group of neighbour boys in a tent--they seemed to agree on doing it. The second was by two friends who also seemed to agree to the acceptable nature of their ugly deeds. It's not a stretch for me to imagine our usual run-of-the-mill offenders slipping through the cracks, reaching-army-age/being-army-age, and heading off to another country to continue doing what they do. I'm not so quick to blame war conditions, though considering there is a lot of sexual abuse going round. Murder, though, well, being trained to shut-down, and serve as an automaton killing machine, I'm guessing it becomes a little hard to turn that off and on. War or not, they are each 100% responsible for their each thought and action.







*no offense intended towards the numerous upstanding males who are horrified by the idea of assaulting and or raping a child or woman.

Dino283

LikeAnOcean wrote:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/15/iraq.slaying.ap/index.html

I mean, I can understand one person going over the edge and loosing their mind, but these fuckers all planned this!!! These animals!!! I would have risked my own life to stop these people from what they did had they been my fellow troops, but how the fuck to they all come to an agreement that its ok to rape and kill!!!

these men should be ashamed of themselve's.it's reason's like this that folks hate America.


but why let a few rotten apples damage the image of the army? it only happend once right?

cincybearcat

El_Kabong wrote:

when your military has to dig under the barrel just to get recruits you should expect some whacked ppl to be involved.

Are you John Kerry's speech writer?

sponger

Dino283 wrote:

it's reason's like this that folks hate America.

Good. They should stop trying to move here.

Ahnimus

LikeAnOcean wrote:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/15/iraq.slaying.ap/index.html

I mean, I can understand one person going over the edge and loosing their mind, but these fuckers all planned this!!! These animals!!! I would have risked my own life to stop these people from what they did had they been my fellow troops, but how the fuck to they all come to an agreement that its ok to rape and kill!!!

The unique combination of 46 chromosomes that contribute to the genetic make-up of humans, known as a karyotype and the environmental influences individuals experience every second of their lives from conception on.

That is what makes everyone do everything.

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

Boys will be boys.* Afterall, 1 in 4 females is sexually assaulted before she reaches adulthood, in North America. We are condoning this behaviour in numerous ways, inadvertently. I had my first childhood sexual assault--oral sodomy--at age 5, done by a group of neighbour boys in a tent--they seemed to agree on doing it. The second was by two friends who also seemed to agree to the acceptable nature of their ugly deeds. It's not a stretch for me to imagine our usual run-of-the-mill offenders slipping through the cracks, reaching-army-age/being-army-age, and heading off to another country to continue doing what they do. I'm not so quick to blame war conditions, though considering there is a lot of sexual abuse going round. Murder, though, well, being trained to shut-down, and serve as an automaton killing machine, I'm guessing it becomes a little hard to turn that off and on. War or not, they are each 100% responsible for their each thought and action.

Some years ago, anthrophologist Margaret Mead (1935) compared the gender roles adopted by people in three tribal societies on the island of New Guinea, and her observations are certainly thought provoking. In the Arapesh tribe, both men and women were taught to play what we would regard as a feminine role: They were cooperative, nonaggressive, and sensitive to the needs of others. By contrast, both men and women of the Mundugumor tribe were brought up to be aggressive and emotionally unresponsive to other people - a masucline pattern of behaviour by Western standards. Finally, the Tchambuli displayed a pattern of gender-role development that was the direct opposite of the Western pattern: Males were passive, emotionally dependent, and socially sensitive, wheras females were dominant, independent, and assertive!

Mead's cross-cultural comparison suggests that cultural learning may have far more to do with the characteristic behaviour patterns of men and women than biological differences do.

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

Some years ago, anthrophologist Margaret Mead (1935) compared the gender roles adopted by people in three tribal societies on the island of New Guinea, and her observations are certainly thought provoking. In the Arapesh tribe, both men and women were taught to play what we would regard as a feminine role: They were cooperative, nonaggressive, and sensitive to the needs of others. By contrast, both men and women of the Mundugumor tribe were brought up to be aggressive and emotionally unresponsive to other people - a masucline pattern of behaviour by Western standards. Finally, the Tchambuli displayed a pattern of gender-role development that was the direct opposite of the Western pattern: Males were passive, emotionally dependent, and socially sensitive, wheras females were dominant, independent, and assertive!

Mead's cross-cultural comparison suggests that cultural learning may have far more to do with the characteristic behaviour patterns of men and women than biological differences do.

I don't doubt that at all.

And as far as the aspects of our systems that appear sexist, it's my experience that just as many women support and perpetuate such systems as do men.

The theories I am aware of that talk about high levels of psychological health are about balance, including between the typically male and female traits. I noticed that you and I, Ahnimus, have the exact same personality type, excepting one aspect: I am the "feeler" version, and you are the "thinker" one. (and what a surprise that is!!?!) This is the typical pattern of males and females: 70% of men are thinkers; 70% of women are feelers. In personality theory, this is attributed to conditioning. Ultimately, over time, if one is progressing well, one begins to find a happy medium and learns to become more healthy and well-rounded by opening to one's opposite.

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

I don't doubt that at all.

And as far as the aspects of our systems that appear sexist, it's my experience that just as many women support and perpetuate such systems as do men.

The theories I am aware of that talk about high levels of psychological health are about balance, including between the typically male and female traits. I noticed that you and I, Ahnimus, have the exact same personality type, excepting one aspect: I am the "feeler" version, and you are the "thinker" one. (and what a surprise that is!!?!) This is the typical pattern of males and females: 70% of men are thinkers; 70% of women are feelers. In personality theory, this is attributed to conditioning. Ultimately, over time, if one is progressing well, one begins to find a happy medium and learns to become more healthy and well-rounded by opening to one's opposite.

I try to practice metacognition, to think about how I think. You bring up a good point about the value of emotional experience. Having emotional experiences can add to the understanding of certain personality traits. In neuroscience, Hebbian theory says in effect that thoughts, emotions and memories group together and fire together. So, an individual experiencing an event will associate it with wired thoughts, emotions and experience. However, this is highly plastic and can change over time. It's possible to reconstruct these engrams.

"The general idea is an old one, that any two cells or systems of cells that are repeatedly active at the same time will tend to become 'associated', so that activity in one facilitates activity in the other." (Hebb, 1949, p70.)

"When one cell repeatedly assists in firing another, the axon of the first cell develops synaptic knobs (or enlarges them if they already exist) in contact with the soma of the second cell." (Hebb, 1949, p63.)

The important aspect in my perspective, is properly attributing emotion to thoughts and experience. I don't want to become upset when I hear about something like racism or sexism. I've experience both, perhaps only mildly, however, relative. These emotional experiences encourage aggression and violence. Which in my opinion isn't a viable solution. That's a difficult thing to do, and perhaps not a wise one.

I think the perpetuation of sexist, racist and gender stereotypes is in large part the cause. Prejudice is always a hot topic and these social percepts proliferate through social interplay. This I believe is a fundamental construct of society that dictates our way of life. In Developmental Psychology it's believed that individuals affect their environment almost as much as their environment affects them. If a person has a percept they continue to revisit they will continue to influence their environment based on it.

This particular incident appears to be a genuine case of sexual aggression. The question is "What pushes people to do this?". It's my belief that social prejudices, stereotypes, poor child-rearing, bad luck, poor genetics and the prenatal environment all have a part in it. I have yet to hear a more viable understanding of people than a complex interaction of these variables. This theory I choose to believe in causes an emotional experience of empathy. The reason why I am empathetic to murderers and extremists, rapists and pedophiles. This is an emotion I can't ignore, our criminal justice systems do not make any effort to rectify the prejudices of society or the misfortunes of chance. We need accountability, we also need causality. We can protect society from certain people, we should also help them and continue to refine our techniques of helping them. Confide in them to help us understand our flaws. What did our species do to create them?

I don't think there is anything biologically normal about men raping women. Although some evolutionary biologists believe that it's an instinctive action designed to procreate. All men aren't rapists, there must be more variables than gender. Though it may play a part.

Those are my thoughts on it, I'm not always the best at putting it into words, but I'm getting better. I've got a lot of growing to do too.

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

I try to practice metacognition, to think about how I think. You bring up a good point about the value of emotional experience. Having emotional experiences can add to the understanding of certain personality traits. In neuroscience, Hebbian theory says in effect that thoughts, emotions and memories group together and fire together. So, an individual experiencing an event will associate it with wired thoughts, emotions and experience. However, this is highly plastic and can change over time. It's possible to reconstruct these engrams.

"The general idea is an old one, that any two cells or systems of cells that are repeatedly active at the same time will tend to become 'associated', so that activity in one facilitates activity in the other." (Hebb, 1949, p70.)

"When one cell repeatedly assists in firing another, the axon of the first cell develops synaptic knobs (or enlarges them if they already exist) in contact with the soma of the second cell." (Hebb, 1949, p63.)

The important aspect in my perspective, is properly attributing emotion to thoughts and experience. I don't want to become upset when I hear about something like racism or sexism. I've experience both, perhaps only mildly, however, relative. These emotional experiences encourage aggression and violence. Which in my opinion isn't a viable solution. That's a difficult thing to do, and perhaps not a wise one.

I think the perpetuation of sexist, racist and gender stereotypes is in large part the cause. Prejudice is always a hot topic and these social percepts proliferate through social interplay. This I believe is a fundamental construct of society that dictates our way of life. In Developmental Psychology it's believed that individuals affect their environment almost as much as their environment affects them. If a person has a percept they continue to revisit they will continue to influence their environment based on it.

This particular incident appears to be a genuine case of sexual aggression. The question is "What pushes people to do this?". It's my belief that social prejudices, stereotypes, poor child-rearing, bad luck, poor genetics and the prenatal environment all have a part in it. I have yet to hear a more viable understanding of people than a complex interaction of these variables. This theory I choose to believe in causes an emotional experience of empathy. The reason why I am empathetic to murderers and extremists, rapists and pedophiles. This is an emotion I can't ignore, our criminal justice systems do not make any effort to rectify the prejudices of society or the misfortunes of chance. We need accountability, we also need causality. We can protect society from certain people, we should also help them and continue to refine our techniques of helping them. Confide in them to help us understand our flaws. What did our species do to create them?

I don't think there is anything biologically normal about men raping women. Although some evolutionary biologists believe that it's an instinctive action designed to procreate. All men aren't rapists, there must be more variables than gender. Though it may play a part.

Those are my thoughts on it, I'm not always the best at putting it into words, but I'm getting better. I've got a lot of growing to do too.

I'm with you Ahnimus. I am also empathic to rapists, murderers, etc. I know they didn't create themselves in a vacuum. I am constantly stunned by mass-ignorance of the very intricate variables that create situations that culminate in deviant behaviour. I'm amazed at how the mainstream points the finger in blame, completely unaware that these individuals manifest the fallout of the entire system.

My daughter, as a sexually assaulted teen, was lined up for long-term, inpatient treatment over a summer (ten years ago) in the well-known psychiatric facility in your city. We were informed that herself and the other sexually assaulted teen girls would be staying with and being treated along with the male teenaged sexual assault offenders. The males and females were recognized as two sides of the sexual assault coin. The professionals were well aware that blame was non-productive, and that it contributes to the illness rampant in our systems. However, to be very clear: Accountability was very focussed on, wherein each individual on all sides of the coin, male and female, were accountable for their each action, in order to fully address healing.

According to co-dependency theory--and many experts in the field say base co-dependency applies to 95% of the population at this time--we are evolutionarily at a place where we are generally emotionally crippled from birth by our conditioning. Since the vast majority are taught to blot out a major part of our evolutionarily necessary brain functioning, our emotional intelligence, we objectify ourselves and therefore develop the false self or ego as a pale replacement. In terms of rape, when we as a society generally condone and support objectifying ourselves and others, it's not a surprise that a large majority of individuals don't have empathy for the children they sexually assault. We learn empathy by being shown empathy. We learn to objectify others when we are continually objectified. It's a "consoling" thought for people to demonize those who act out the fallout. Its a lot more difficult to understand, especially when it entails awakening our own stunted empathy. Ultimately understanding is shown with understanding.

I am not a male. I am a highly emotional "feeler" empath. But, my main personality function of emotion was shut down and I was objectified as a child. I was trained to perform intellectually by being taught to tune out my most prominant way of understanding the world--my emotions. Due to having my key intelligence disabled, I ended up finding myself in sexual assault situation after situation, until being well into my 30's. Having a lack of empathy, I also continually objectified my own self, and other humans in often cruel and unusual ways. As a teenager, I used to fantasize about killing myself and taking others with me. "Fortunately", by the brilliance of our homeostatic human systems, I developed numerous disorders due to my most natural emotional function being crippled. These disorders forced me out of my crippled ways, and redirected me towards looking to understand and find solutions. Both the OCD and eating disorders I had are typically developed by "harmavoid" personalities who are simply LOATHE in harming others--these disorders showed my true nature beyond my objectified self. My disorders saved me from the ugliness that my environment shaped in me and brought me back to my own nature wherein I was prevented from harming others. I would truly choose mental illness for myself than harm another willfully (as these disorders represent psychologically) I relate to men in that I was trained to be emotionally shut down in order to succeed intellectually. While I feel blessed that I am very comfortable having an intellectual discussion with any male as a result, I also understand the inner workings of shutting off one's potential in order to fit the false self. I can also relate to being one of the rare severe cases on the fringe that represent the flaws in the systems. It was clear that many people were willing write me off, after all I was bad and crazy. LIfe and my true nature had other things in store for me.

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

In neuroscience, Hebbian theory says in effect that thoughts, emotions and memories group together and fire together. So, an individual experiencing an event will associate it with wired thoughts, emotions and experience. However, this is highly plastic and can change over time. It's possible to reconstruct these engrams.

"The general idea is an old one, that any two cells or systems of cells that are repeatedly active at the same time will tend to become 'associated', so that activity in one facilitates activity in the other." (Hebb, 1949, p70.)

What most people don't realize is that due to their lack of emotional intelligence development, the majority of people have frozen emotional content in their brains, preventing them from perceiving reality. Therefore people get caught up in these inner "scripts" and take them to be true. So say one does not cope with their childhood physical abuse, whenever they feel any emotion that is associated with the abuse in the present, even when abuse does not exist, they continue to respond as though the abuse is currently present, which is why people grow up and justify being the abuser. This goes for all life problems. If the issue was childhood abandonment, any emotion associated with the frozen inner trauma creates for us a false perception in the now. This is the case for the vast majority of humans.

This CAN change, when one learns to process and clear the old emotions that are grouped in associations and distorting our perceptions in the now. Unfortunately, the majority takes such projections to be real and continue to project "wrong" and "bad" at others. Thereby they continue to justify living out the false life. It's the norm!

I know that these "engrams" can be completely reconstructed as that is how I have rewired my brain from illness to open potential. According to widely scientifically studied levels of consciousness, those who are able to see realistically, are the mere 2% of the population who have learned to accept, deal with and release the inner distortions. By doing so, they can rise to "second tier" conscious--the cutting edge of consciousness at this time. The awareness that is normal at this time is one where each group thinks they are "right" and others groups are wrong". Such groups are unable to reach understanding and resolution of problems. However, at second tier consciousness, one actually comes to understand "theories of everything" because one's consciousness becomes integrative and holistic, and therefore one can embrace all aspects of life, at every level, which is necessary for actual understanding. In the "lower" stages of consciousness, by ignoring and deleting what one sees as "wrong", one misses out on understanding vast amounts of data, while living essentially a false holographic projection of the brain.

Ahnimus

I think a lot of emotional suppression may start at home. Most parents I have observed make quick, irreversable judgements when their children fight amongst themselves. There is no process of determinition outside of the parents "hunch".

So, if Suzy hits David and David retaliates, then Suzy cries. Mom/Dad wonders why Suzy is crying and punishes David. Meanwhile David hit Suzy because Suzy hit David, and Suzy hit David because she is frustrated with her older brother dominating her. David dominates Suzy because as the older child he's been entrusted by his parents to look after his little sister, he is expected to be the older responsible one.

So, now you can see the parents punishing David and possibly saying "You should know better, you are the older one.". Now David feels like he's failed and is unable to react to emotional stimuli.

That's just one scenario, as a mother you would know many others. I just feel that in general parents deal with issues with statments like "Stop it!", "Don't do that!", "Go to your room!". None of these statements identify the cause with equinimity, consider outside influences or take appropriate steps to foster a better sibling relationship. It's simply a quick fix to get one child to stop acting-out, but there is a reason they are acting-out that is not being addressed.

I find this especially true observationally. Parents will inevitably feel pressured if they have guests, to resolve the issue quickly and uphold an image of a functional family unit.

I know of a few parents that focus their energy on their family's social image, their own social image and make insufficient effort to raise their children properly.

One mother who's oldest daughter is off-the-wall, literally, she is taking Ritalin for "ADD", but on top of that she is sexually disturbed. It's unclear wether her father did/does sexually abuse her, but it's apparent that her mother makes no effort to understand her daughter and addresses her in a very degrading manner. I say sexually disturbed because I've observed her touching herself in public and at home with company. She is also constantly grappling to any guy/boy that she is in contact with. Her mother is very similar, very promiscuos and very excitable.

She called me one day and said she doesn't know how to deal with her daughter. Her daughter tried strangling her little sister. I was kind of lost for words, she asked me because I behaved similarily as a child. The only advice I could offer is to spend more time with her, get to know her and try to understand her by talking to her, because I don't know and talking to me will just get you a bunch of theory. I have a good idea why I tried killing my siblings, but everyone is different and what worked for me may have adverse affects on someone else. But I know her situation pretty well, I think most of it can be slowly repaired by the Mother taking more responsibility.

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

What most people don't realize is that due to their lack of emotional intelligence development, the majority of people have frozen emotional content in their brains, preventing them from perceiving reality. Therefore people get caught up in these inner "scripts" and take them to be true. So say one does not cope with their childhood physical abuse, whenever they feel any emotion that is associated with the abuse in the present, even when abuse does not exist, they continue to respond as though the abuse is currently present, which is why people grow up and justify being the abuser. This goes for all life problems. If the issue was childhood abandonment, any emotion associated with the frozen inner trauma creates for us a false perception in the now. This is the case for the vast majority of humans.

This CAN change, when one learns to process and clear the old emotions that are grouped in associations and distorting our perceptions in the now. Unfortunately, the majority takes such projections to be real and continue to project "wrong" and "bad" at others. Thereby they continue to justify living out the false life. It's the norm!

I know that these "engrams" can be completely reconstructed as that is how I have rewired my brain from illness to open potential. According to widely scientifically studied levels of consciousness, those who are able to see realistically, are the mere 2% of the population who have learned to accept, deal with and release the inner distortions. By doing so, they can rise to "second tier" conscious--the cutting edge of consciousness at this time. The awareness that is normal at this time is one where each group thinks they are "right" and others groups are wrong". Such groups are unable to reach understanding and resolution of problems. However, at second tier consciousness, one actually comes to understand "theories of everything" because one's consciousness becomes integrative and holistic, and therefore one can embrace all aspects of life, at every level, which is necessary for actual understanding. In the "lower" stages of consciousness, by ignoring and deleting what one sees as "wrong", one misses out on understanding vast amounts of data, while living essentially a false holographic projection of the brain.

It's interesting that we have similar concepts of congnition from two seperate schools of thought. However, it seems that all of these disciplines are becoming more holistic, incorporating aspects of other areas of study. WhatTheBLEEP is an example of this, the movie has been ridiculed for originating from RSE, but that doesn't mean the theory is any less applicable. I was first exposed to Hebbian theory by the film which lead me to study neuroscience a little bit and that's how I discovered the actual name of the theory and a more in-depth description of it. I was able to validate to myself most of the theories mentioned in the film, the underlying concept of mind over matter is one that I respect as an aspect of reality, but not neccisarily the whole reality. I think, perhaps we only affect our environment as much as our environment affects us. The main value I see in the film is it's ability to teach these various theories in a fun and entertaining way. It's a very holistic look at how people interoperate, I'd recommend it to anyone. Actually I recommended it to my friend and he bought the whole 500 min extended version without ever seeing it. Fortunately he really liked the film.

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

My daughter, as a sexually assaulted teen, was lined up for long-term, inpatient treatment over a summer (ten years ago) in the well-known psychiatric facility in your city. We were informed that herself and the other sexually assaulted teen girls would be staying with and being treated along with the male teenaged sexual assault offenders. The males and females were recognized as two sides of the sexual assault coin. The professionals were well aware that blame was non-productive, and that it contributes to the illness rampant in our systems. However, to be very clear: Accountability was very focussed on, wherein each individual on all sides of the coin, male and female, were accountable for their each action, in order to fully address healing.

That is an interesting treatment method, I'm interested how that worked out. I feel accountability is also very important, because the percept that one is not accountable for their actions would further encourage them to act inappropriately. Unfortunately I think a higher level of cognition is extremely difficult to acheive and even a practiced individual will still make mistakes. Perhaps why only 2% ever acheive this higher cognitive level. Of course virtually none of this is taught in highschool, there are however, many classes advocating typical gender-roles.

El_Kabong

cincybearcat wrote:

Are you John Kerry's speech writer?

no, why?

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

I think a lot of emotional suppression may start at home. Most parents I have observed make quick, irreversable judgements when their children fight amongst themselves. There is no process of determinition outside of the parents "hunch".

So, if Suzy hits David and David retaliates, then Suzy cries. Mom/Dad wonders why Suzy is crying and punishes David. Meanwhile David hit Suzy because Suzy hit David, and Suzy hit David because she is frustrated with her older brother dominating her. David dominates Suzy because as the older child he's been entrusted by his parents to look after his little sister, he is expected to be the older responsible one.

So, now you can see the parents punishing David and possibly saying "You should know better, you are the older one.". Now David feels like he's failed and is unable to react to emotional stimuli.

That's just one scenario, as a mother you would know many others. I just feel that in general parents deal with issues with statments like "Stop it!", "Don't do that!", "Go to your room!". None of these statements identify the cause with equinimity, consider outside influences or take appropriate steps to foster a better sibling relationship. It's simply a quick fix to get one child to stop acting-out, but there is a reason they are acting-out that is not being addressed.

I find this especially true observationally. Parents will inevitably feel pressured if they have guests, to resolve the issue quickly and uphold an image of a functional family unit.

I know of a few parents that focus their energy on their family's social image, their own social image and make insufficient effort to raise their children properly.

One mother who's oldest daughter is off-the-wall, literally, she is taking Ritalin for "ADD", but on top of that she is sexually disturbed. It's unclear wether her father did/does sexually abuse her, but it's apparent that her mother makes no effort to understand her daughter and addresses her in a very degrading manner. I say sexually disturbed because I've observed her touching herself in public and at home with company. She is also constantly grappling to any guy/boy that she is in contact with. Her mother is very similar, very promiscuos and very excitable.

She called me one day and said she doesn't know how to deal with her daughter. Her daughter tried strangling her little sister. I was kind of lost for words, she asked me because I behaved similarily as a child. The only advice I could offer is to spend more time with her, get to know her and try to understand her by talking to her, because I don't know and talking to me will just get you a bunch of theory. I have a good idea why I tried killing my siblings, but everyone is different and what worked for me may have adverse affects on someone else. But I know her situation pretty well, I think most of it can be slowly repaired by the Mother taking more responsibility.

Has the woman looked into professional help or counselling of some sort for her self or her daughter? I see it all the time--parents who are messed up and passing on the patterns.

Yes, the emotional suppression is said to begin in the home. Transactional analysis is the branch of psychology that studies human interactions, and apparently our parents and other caregivers start to discount our experiences at an early age crippling our healthy brain functions, which cause us to split off from ourselves. Our feelings are discounted, and we are invalidated and made to feel there is something wrong with us.

It's a vicious cycle. The parents teach their kids the repression because they think it is the right thing to do because it's what they know since they, too, were taught it. It's the way to be--normal. The problem is it's not healthy.

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

It's interesting that we have similar concepts of congnition from two seperate schools of thought. However, it seems that all of these disciplines are becoming more holistic, incorporating aspects of other areas of study. WhatTheBLEEP is an example of this, the movie has been ridiculed for originating from RSE, but that doesn't mean the theory is any less applicable. I was first exposed to Hebbian theory by the film which lead me to study neuroscience a little bit and that's how I discovered the actual name of the theory and a more in-depth description of it. I was able to validate to myself most of the theories mentioned in the film, the underlying concept of mind over matter is one that I respect as an aspect of reality, but not neccisarily the whole reality. I think, perhaps we only affect our environment as much as our environment affects us. The main value I see in the film is it's ability to teach these various theories in a fun and entertaining way. It's a very holistic look at how people interoperate, I'd recommend it to anyone. Actually I recommended it to my friend and he bought the whole 500 min extended version without ever seeing it. Fortunately he really liked the film.

I agree that we are seeing the same concepts from different angles. I find most disciplines still seem quite closed and do not synthesize with other systems. I learned years back that by studying different approaches that I would start to see these issues holistically, particularly regarding brain functioning. For example, the chemical aspect is the objective study and psychology is the exact same thing, except it is the objective study of the subjective experience of the very same chemical issues. I love the groups such as the "What the Bleep" folks who unite multiple disciplines or schools of thought. Analysis and synthesis are functions that use opposite halves of the brain. Therefore to use one or another is not getting the whole picture. But together, holistically, the whole understanding is greater than the sum of the parts.

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

Has the woman looked into professional help or counselling of some sort for her self or her daughter? I see it all the time--parents who are messed up and passing on the patterns.

Well. I'm not sure, it's kind of a tangled mess.

Two years ago I was having sex with the woman and her daughter knew it. Both of her daughters knew and understood what was happenening, even though the youngest daughter was still a baby. They started calling me Dad and I encouraged them not to. It must have been very confusing for them, their mother had just left a 7 year relationship with the younger daughter's father. I had also just broken up with a girl I was with for a year.

The whole situation was fubar, I ended up backing away from the whole scenario and got back together with my previous girlfriend. I didn't think at the time about how all of this would affect the children, their mother and my ex-girlfriend. The other aspect is the mother is the sister of my brother's girlfriend and my ex-girlfriend is a childhood friend of the sisters.

I really fucked up, if I knew then what I know now...

Now, the mother is remarried and has a total of 4 kids. I don't talk to her much out of respect for her husband. Also her sister is really smart and actually lent me this book on Developmental Psychology, she is studying for pharmacy technicien now, so I leave it in her capable hands.

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

That is an interesting treatment method, I'm interested how that worked out. I feel accountability is also very important, because the percept that one is not accountable for their actions would further encourage them to act inappropriately. Unfortunately I think a higher level of cognition is extremely difficult to acheive and even a practiced individual will still make mistakes. Perhaps why only 2% ever acheive this higher cognitive level. Of course virtually none of this is taught in highschool, there are however, many classes advocating typical gender-roles.

My daughter ended up not going to that hospital, not because I disapproved of the treatment, but because she was afraid to be hospitalized away from home, and got herself together on her own before the time came to go. They told us the idea of the male offenders and female offendees getting together was so one or the other would come to actually hear the other side's real true feelings, so that they could not longer blank each other out as objectified humans. For example, the boys who had assaulted girls would listen to the girls crying and facing the trauma of such abuses. The boys could not deny the affects of such abusive actions. They could not longer objectify OR demonize each other. The idea is both sides had been abused and traumatized throughout their lives, and both sides were blanked out from their true underlying nature. Both are incomplete halves seeking wholeness and who are drawn into connection unconsciously.

A higher level of cognition is difficult to achieve when one relies on the original flawed brain functioning. This is the importance of thinking outside the box. I've found that when we inject new resources into cognitive situations (information, treatment sources, etc), and when we begin to make changes in our environments, we naturally gravitate towards our real and higher potenial. It's like when you try to hold a ball under water. It wants to raise to the surface. The difficulty comes in in trying to hold it under! Our lower cognitive states are not natural based on our original blueprints. They are instead taught to us by flawed caregivers. They go against our potential and our ground state. But when we remove the blockage, it is like stopping trying to hold the ball under water--it naturally goes towards where it needs to be. That is why we recognize when we are finding resolution--things improve. If it is working, it becomes easier; if it is not working, we can tell by the level of tension and struggle. I agree that we make mistakes throughout the process. Natural evolution is about two steps forward one step back. Evolution is always at work, though, independant of our opinions of it.

Unfortunately, about the higher tiers of awareness--those who are not there rarely see the validity in them. Our acceptable ideas at each level reflect our existing level of awareness. Most don't see outside their subjective box.

Ahnimus

I was just reading this....

[size=+2]Cultural Influences on Sexuality[/size]
Societies clearly differ in the education they provide children about sexual matters in their attempts to prepare them for their roles as mature sexual beings (Ford & Beach, 1951). On the island of Ponape, for example, 4- and 5-year-olds receive a thorough "sex education" from adults and are encouraged to experiment with one another. Among the Chewa of Africa, parents believe that practice makes perfect; so, with the blessings of their parents, older boys and girls build huts and play at being husbands and wives in trial marriages. By contrast, restrictive cultures view sexuality as a taboo subject and vigorously suppress its expression. In New Guinea, for example, Kwoma children are punished for sex play and are not allowed to touch themselves. In fact, a Kwoma boy caught with an erection is likely to have his penis beaten with a stick!

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

Well. I'm not sure, it's kind of a tangled mess.

Two years ago I was having sex with the woman and her daughter knew it. Both of her daughters knew and understood what was happenening, even though the youngest daughter was still a baby. They started calling me Dad and I encouraged them not to. It must have been very confusing for them, their mother had just left a 7 year relationship with the younger daughter's father. I had also just broken up with a girl I was with for a year.

The whole situation was fubar, I ended up backing away from the whole scenario and got back together with my previous girlfriend. I didn't think at the time about how all of this would affect the children, their mother and my ex-girlfriend. The other aspect is the mother is the sister of my brother's girlfriend and my ex-girlfriend is a childhood friend of the sisters.

I really fucked up, if I knew then what I know now...

Now, the mother is remarried and has a total of 4 kids. I don't talk to her much out of respect for her husband. Also her sister is really smart and actually lent me this book on Developmental Psychology, she is studying for pharmacy technicien now, so I leave it in her capable hands.

I believe that we all attract the happenings of our lives based on unconscious criteria. I think you are exactly accountable for your actions and the consequences of them. And at the same time, you are not accountable for the mother's choices and her consequences. What you can do is look into your issues and resolve what has gone on for you, and by doing so you can minimize getting yourself into future situations of the sort. I think leaving the situation in the competent hands of others makes a lot of sense.