the problem is no one wants to accept anything as fact unless CNN(or any of the other military industrial complex controlled stations) tells them it's fact.how do you escape the brain washing if you are seeking truth from the brain washers?
I love how you assume that we all are midless sheep watching CNN and only CNN.
I love how you blindly fail to see the parallels of disinformation between your so called "Alternative" "Underground" "Over Throw The Government" news sources and CNN.
I'm glad you voted.
Yet in a thread that was obviously started to celebrate the process of voting in this country. You come on here and preach about how pointless it is.
And how we should inform ourselves before we vote. Blindly assuming that your are the only one that is informed because you decided to vote for Nader or Paul or a 3rd Party Candidate for Prez.
Where did I say education wasn't a solution? I just said I'm not going to wait around for everyone to catch up.
Is Reading Comprehension a road block for you?
FACT: There are more independent 3rd party candidates on ballot this year at the State and Local level then at any other time in United States History.
I'd say it's working.
Here in the great white north, we have 4 major parties (Liberal, Conservative, NDP, and Bloc, along with Green and other smaller ones), yet what happens is we end up splitting the vote. It's not the ideal situation. The ideal situation is that everybody gets a say in every decision. If you support McCain's view on free trade but oppose his view on gun control, why should you have to weigh your opinions and what matters most to you? why shouldn't you be able to have both, given they are the efficient solution.
Here in the great white north, we have 4 major parties (Liberal, Conservative, NDP, and Bloc, along with Green and other smaller ones), yet what happens is we end up splitting the vote. It's not the ideal situation. The ideal situation is that everybody gets a say in every decision. If you support McCain's view on free trade but oppose his view on gun control, why should you have to weigh your opinions and what matters most to you? why shouldn't you be able to have both, given they are the efficient solution.
Hey no doubt
There are problems with the Multi Party System.
But Canada doesn't exactly have a balanced representation in Parliment of Green and NDP. Your Parliment is made up mostly of the 2 major parties Liberal and Conservative.
Am I correct?
That's why it's important for you to beef up 3rd Party Representation on the STATE and LOCAL level.
In your case the Parliment level.
It allows that check and balance to be the most effective.
I had an opportunity this year to work in Toronto Canada for about 6 months.
From what I saw...You guys really had a push in this election for Green Party and NDP candidates.
Hey no doubt
There are problems with the Multi Party System.
But Canada doesn't exactly have a balanced representation in Parliment of Green and NDP. Your Parliment is made up mostly of the 2 major parties Liberal and Conservative.
Am I correct?
That's why it's important for you to beef up 3rd Party Representation on the STATE and LOCAL level.
In your case the Parliment level.
It allows that check and balance to be the most effective.
I had an opportunity this year to work in Toronto Canada for about 6 months.
From what I saw...You guys really had a push in this election for Green Party and NDP candidates.
How did that work out?
NDP has actually been the Opposition party once, so have the Bloc Quebecios. This last election the breakdown was 143 Conservative MP's, 77 Liberal, 49 Bloc, 37 NDP and 2 Green. While this is still a minority government, it creates a very unbalanced power check system since the Conservatives only need the support of the bloc or the NDP to pass anything. Since the Bloc focuses mostly on Quebec as a province, this is not that hard to do, and it leaves traditionally more liberal NDP and Liberal MP's without a say. I do agree it is a better system overall, but having a party like the Bloc really changes the focus.
because some people caught on and they needed to feign action.did it matter?who became president when it was all said and done?
"Some people caught on" is the key point here. If your theory is right, and the elections are just an elaborate show, voting still proved to be relevant simply because some people caught on. Without the voters, and others who were active, people wouldn't have caught on. If the votes weren't so close, the alleged "scheme" wouldn't have received exposure. That is how going to the polls helps to end the charade, IF elections are indeed a charade. Charade or no, it still proves that voting isn't irrelevant.
Did Americans feel reassured and confident when W was awarded the Presidency? I'm sure that some folks liked it, but I seem to remember a lot of outrage, a lot of concern, and a call for change. It made more people aware of problems in the system.
So again, even IF it's just a big show, voting has still proved valuable. Not voting has just proved to be not voting.
it's a lot like WWF wrestling...fake opposition..plus there is in house fighting by the underlings over who gets a bigger piece of the pie (democrats or republicans).
You even admit here that voting does equate to something.
see...all their lies and disinformation works very well..you still believe that the system works.Voting USED to be important..not anymore.
I personally believe that the system has flaws, and is not above corruption. However, for the reasons that I've listed above, voting is still important. Without it, we have no hope for exposing the aforementioned flaws and corruptions.
It doesn't hurt to try. I don't watch the news much, especially being from Canada. But just as CNN/MSNBC/FOX etc are biased and have their own agenda, so do others. It doesn't do any good to ignore CNN because they are biased and only get your information from some other source. More than likely the truth lies in the gray area in the middle. I try to take in all I can from books and other sources, paying attention to others opinions and corroborating it with my own. That is what having an open mind is about.
I'm trying not to get into my own personal beliefs here, but I will get into it more if asked. Before I do that though, crazy breed, could you give a more concise rundown of what your point was at the beginning? Do you think that the government is controlled by a central figure/group or something along those lines, or do you think the election was rigged by Bush et. al, or just in conspiracies in general. I'm trying to get a feel for how far reaching you think the corruption goes.
there is definitely some truth to what you say here and i do agree with you about the truth being in the "gray area" and you are also right about watching CNN..i think of it as monitoring the enemies transmissions..i was talking about the people who watch it and swallow all that they are told.
Do I think that the government is controlled by a central figure/group? YES, i know it is.
I love how you assume that we all are midless sheep watching CNN and only CNN.
I love how you blindly fail to see the parallels of disinformation between your so called "Alternative" "Underground" "Over Throw The Government" news sources and CNN.
Do you not think they're pushing an agenda?
this from the fucking guy who has made mas assumptions about me all day?!!!
i blindly follow nothing..i only follow the truth and I'm not scared to follow where it may take me.
again read the fucking Declaration of Independence!!!
Do I think that the government is controlled by a central figure/group? YES, i know it is.
Care to elaborate? I find that level of corruption hard to believe personally, but I'm willing to hear what you have to say instead of stifling the communication.
"Some people caught on" is the key point here. If your theory is right, and the elections are just an elaborate show, voting still proved to be relevant simply because some people caught on. Without the voters, and others who were active, people wouldn't have caught on. If the votes weren't so close, the alleged "scheme" wouldn't have received exposure. That is how going to the polls helps to end the charade, IF elections are indeed a charade. Charade or no, it still proves that voting isn't irrelevant.
yeah people went to jail and it got stuffed down the memory hole and swept under the rug and that was it! it didn't fix anything and we are still at threat of having another election rigged(now or in the future)
Did Americans feel reassured and confident when W was awarded the Presidency? I'm sure that some folks liked it, but I seem to remember a lot of outrage, a lot of concern, and a call for change. It made more people aware of problems in the system.
So again, even IF it's just a big show, voting has still proved valuable. Not voting has just proved to be not voting.
Bush didn't win in '04 yet we had his stank ass in the Whitehouse for 4 more years and no one came to our rescue or ousted him did they? we need a MASS awakening to make a change.
I personally believe that the system has flaws, and is not above corruption. However, for the reasons that I've listed above, voting is still important. Without it, we have no hope for exposing the aforementioned flaws and corruptions.
all i'm going to say is things are much worse than people are aware of and they aren't going to get better if we stand around and pretend everything is ok.
this from the fucking guy who has made mas assumptions about me all day?!!!
i blindly follow nothing..i only follow the truth and I'm not scared to follow where it may take me.
again read the fucking Declaration of Independence!!!
Your the one making assumptions Pal.
Your the one that came on here and called us all "uninformed sheeps" for "Voting" of all things.
If your going to wear the Armour
Learn how to take one in the fucking chest.
As for the "Declaration of Independence" Your the one that's pissing all over it with this "What's the point of Voting" Bullshit
If you cared for such things you'd realize how lucky we are to actually have that right. You'd realize that alot blood shed occured to give you and me that right.
So don't preach to me about History kid.
In this entire thread you've done nothing to offer any solutions.
Cause you don't have any
You don't even bother to try
You keep preaching about how we "Need To Wake Up"
Wake up to What?
What's The Next Move?
You don't have one
You just sit back with your lame ass boogie man theories and preach how participating in this system is a lame exercise of ignorance.
Perhaps you should get off the fucking sofa and actually participate and contribute to the system.
Maybe that way you can actually improve it.
You say your an Activist?
Well what the fuck have you done?
If you want to be taken seriously...Come up with an alternative that we can get behind.
Don't twist the Declaration of Independence and various philisophical waterhead qoutes around to explain your indolent and lethargic dissent.
It's a hollow Easter Egg and It holds no water until you actually present a solution to counteract what you say to be an pointless excerise of our Freedoms.
yeah people went to jail and it got stuffed down the memory hole and swept under the rug and that was it! it didn't fix anything and we are still at threat of having another election rigged(now or in the future)
It brought about an awareness that wasn't there on a broad scale. Just today, I'm hearing a lot today about polling problems in Pennsylvania. Do you suppose those problems would receive so much media attention if things hadn't been publicized in 2000? Things were publicized because people voted. Hence, voting is still important. Just because there wasn't a complete overnight turnaround, it doesn't mean that our votes aren't playing a role in changing things. It would better serve you to remember that change is often a process.
Bush didn't win in '04 yet we had his stank ass in the Whitehouse for 4 more years and no one came to our rescue or ousted him did they? we need a MASS awakening to make a change.
How is not voting going to help prove who is the winner and who is the loser?!?!? Your 1st step to bring about a "MASS awakening" is to encourage people not to voice their opinion?
all i'm going to say is things are much worse than people are aware of and they aren't going to get better if we stand around and pretend everything is ok.
Okay, so why would you encourage people not to speak out?
U.S. has about a 55% vote ratio, should be up this time to 65%+. Down here in Florida every vote means something. Most states though lean much farther one way to a party, so some people don't feel the obligation to go out and vote knowing which party will win the state like when I lived in NY. That's why you see Obama & McCain mostly in the swing states. Most people take this life and voting here in the states too much for granted. Then they go out and complain about what's going on here, what bull-sh*t! Go out and Vote.
Thanks for the answer mate.
I must say that is terribly disappointing that only half your population votes. Besides the fact Im still dumbfounded that its not compulsory.
Im also shocked at some of the negative attitudes re not wanting to vote - just plain old strange.
FACT: There are more independent 3rd party candidates on ballot this year at the State and Local level then at any other time in United States History.
Your the one that came on here and called us all "uninformed sheeps" for "Voting" of all things.
If your going to wear the Armour
Learn how to take one in the fucking chest.
As for the "Declaration of Independence" Your the one that's pissing all over it with this "What's the point of Voting" Bullshit
If you cared for such things you'd realize how lucky we are to actually have that right. You'd realize that alot blood shed occured to give you and me that right.
So don't preach to me about History kid.
In this entire thread you've done nothing to offer any solutions.
Cause you don't have any
You don't even bother to try
You keep preaching about how we "Need To Wake Up"
Wake up to What?
What's The Next Move?
You don't have one
You just sit back with your lame ass boogie man theories and preach how participating in this system is a lame exercise of ignorance.
Perhaps you should get off the fucking sofa and actually participate and contribute to the system.
Maybe that way you can actually improve it.
You say your an Activist?
Well what the fuck have you done?
If you want to be taken seriously...Come up with an alternative that we can get behind.
Don't twist the Declaration of Independence and various philisophical waterhead qoutes around to explain your indolent and lethargic dissent.
It's a hollow Easter Egg and It holds no water until you actually present a solution to counteract what you say to be an pointless excerise of our Freedoms.
I say one thing and you accuse me of saying something else,I offer solutions and you say i have none,I voted and you tell me I'm wrong for not voting,i say I'm an activist and you act like you know what i have or haven't done when in fact you don't know a fucking thing about me! you claim i am a conspiracy theorist when i never said anything that could be construed as conspiracy.you have called me everything from a hippie to a couch potato.
You say i should be grateful for the right to vote and that people have died for that right? those people died believing that their chosen leaders would/are follow the same code.Just like there are still idiots who think that the military is fighting for freedom and democracy in Iraq when most of the world knows that's not the truth.
and as far as you saying I'm pissing on & twisting the D.O.I. goes that was just a moronic comment(which isn't surprising.)I grew up 20 minutes from the battle of Lexington & Concord and know plenty about revolutionary history(I'd be willing to bet it's a lot more than you know) and what it means to be a patriot.You on the other hand are just a loud mouth, pop'n a lot of shit but ain't really saying nothing (which ironically is what you accuse me of)
one last comment in regards to voting..the lack of a true choice has also made voting irrelevant.
voting isn't the answer when you have to pick between the lesser of 2 evils!
now I'm done with you for you are a waste of my time...so keep pop'n shit after i leave..that's all you know how to do.
I think it was Jesus that said not to "cast your pearls before swine"...i agree.
Interesting thread. Can't say I approve of some of the personal attacks, but not voting, I think, is as legitimate as voting. Check out this article: http://mises.org/story/3170
I don't advocate not voting based on apathy or laziness, but if someone makes an informed decision not to vote, I have no problem with that.
-Every recount held had Bush as the winner, where is the controversy?
-The WMDs that he used on his people that you don't think existed, were moved to Syria, maybe the liberal media didn't get that news to you?
-Bin Laden is most likely dead. If the US kills him, he becomes a martyr. If he lives, he is a hero. If he slowly disappears from our consciousness, then he becomes neither! I hope we never "find him" or hear from him again!
-Thank the heavens for the Electoral College, it kept Gore out of office! Now he has time to invent hoaxes like global warming... which you don't hear about anymore! You think things are bad now, it would be much worse with Democrats in control! Look what happened to gas prices over the last 2 years with Democrats in control of congress!
-That meaningless war has liberated a country from a dictator, and kept the terrorist from attacking us. If Bush wouldn't have acted, you would be on here now blaming him for new terrorist attacks brought on by him not acting!
-Or not, because you don't seem to understand that Clinton's inaction led to many terrorist attacks, ultimately 9-11. But hey, things were good because Al Gore invented the internet and Bill Clinton was solely responsible for the Tech Boom! I see you are not too good with history, politics, or just facts in general! Clinton WAS impeached, and it was because he lied under oath.
-This is not a Democratic nation; we are a Representative Republic.... If you can't get that part right, what makes you think you are informed on current politics?
holly crap...do you think everything you watch on FOX NEWS is true? this is a perfect example of what is wrong with people in this country....believe whatever FOX NEWS says....
Interesting thread. Can't say I approve of some of the personal attacks, but not voting, I think, is as legitimate as voting. Check out this article: http://mises.org/story/3170
I don't advocate not voting based on apathy or laziness, but if someone makes an informed decision not to vote, I have no problem with that.
If Obama doesn't win by a landslide(no i don't want him to win but MOST people do) i hope that is enough for people to wake the fuck up and see this pseudo democratic process for what it is!
looking at the electoral vote right now and McCain is way ahead! what will YOU do if McCain wins even though "we the people" don't want him and didn't vote him in?
i mentioned this in another thread but thought it would be alright to repeat it here:
if you voted today, THANK YOU on behalf of all who would have loved to vote in this historic election but cant (im only 16...). every vote does count, and dont take this important responsibility for granted! thanks again everyone (especially if you voted Obama )
cant wait for next election- i can finally vote!
Comments
I love how you assume that we all are midless sheep watching CNN and only CNN.
I love how you blindly fail to see the parallels of disinformation between your so called "Alternative" "Underground" "Over Throw The Government" news sources and CNN.
Do you not think they're pushing an agenda?
Here in the great white north, we have 4 major parties (Liberal, Conservative, NDP, and Bloc, along with Green and other smaller ones), yet what happens is we end up splitting the vote. It's not the ideal situation. The ideal situation is that everybody gets a say in every decision. If you support McCain's view on free trade but oppose his view on gun control, why should you have to weigh your opinions and what matters most to you? why shouldn't you be able to have both, given they are the efficient solution.
Hey no doubt
There are problems with the Multi Party System.
But Canada doesn't exactly have a balanced representation in Parliment of Green and NDP. Your Parliment is made up mostly of the 2 major parties Liberal and Conservative.
Am I correct?
That's why it's important for you to beef up 3rd Party Representation on the STATE and LOCAL level.
In your case the Parliment level.
It allows that check and balance to be the most effective.
I had an opportunity this year to work in Toronto Canada for about 6 months.
From what I saw...You guys really had a push in this election for Green Party and NDP candidates.
How did that work out?
NDP has actually been the Opposition party once, so have the Bloc Quebecios. This last election the breakdown was 143 Conservative MP's, 77 Liberal, 49 Bloc, 37 NDP and 2 Green. While this is still a minority government, it creates a very unbalanced power check system since the Conservatives only need the support of the bloc or the NDP to pass anything. Since the Bloc focuses mostly on Quebec as a province, this is not that hard to do, and it leaves traditionally more liberal NDP and Liberal MP's without a say. I do agree it is a better system overall, but having a party like the Bloc really changes the focus.
I often wonder, is it hot in the matrix?
Did Americans feel reassured and confident when W was awarded the Presidency? I'm sure that some folks liked it, but I seem to remember a lot of outrage, a lot of concern, and a call for change. It made more people aware of problems in the system.
So again, even IF it's just a big show, voting has still proved valuable. Not voting has just proved to be not voting.
You even admit here that voting does equate to something.
I personally believe that the system has flaws, and is not above corruption. However, for the reasons that I've listed above, voting is still important. Without it, we have no hope for exposing the aforementioned flaws and corruptions.
there is definitely some truth to what you say here and i do agree with you about the truth being in the "gray area" and you are also right about watching CNN..i think of it as monitoring the enemies transmissions..i was talking about the people who watch it and swallow all that they are told.
Do I think that the government is controlled by a central figure/group? YES, i know it is.
you tell me, i'm not the one stuck in it.
this from the fucking guy who has made mas assumptions about me all day?!!!
i blindly follow nothing..i only follow the truth and I'm not scared to follow where it may take me.
again read the fucking Declaration of Independence!!!
What if the truth was that the elections aren't rigged?
Care to elaborate? I find that level of corruption hard to believe personally, but I'm willing to hear what you have to say instead of stifling the communication.
yeah people went to jail and it got stuffed down the memory hole and swept under the rug and that was it! it didn't fix anything and we are still at threat of having another election rigged(now or in the future)
Bush didn't win in '04 yet we had his stank ass in the Whitehouse for 4 more years and no one came to our rescue or ousted him did they? we need a MASS awakening to make a change.
all i'm going to say is things are much worse than people are aware of and they aren't going to get better if we stand around and pretend everything is ok.
Your the one making assumptions Pal.
Your the one that came on here and called us all "uninformed sheeps" for "Voting" of all things.
If your going to wear the Armour
Learn how to take one in the fucking chest.
As for the "Declaration of Independence" Your the one that's pissing all over it with this "What's the point of Voting" Bullshit
If you cared for such things you'd realize how lucky we are to actually have that right. You'd realize that alot blood shed occured to give you and me that right.
So don't preach to me about History kid.
In this entire thread you've done nothing to offer any solutions.
Cause you don't have any
You don't even bother to try
You keep preaching about how we "Need To Wake Up"
Wake up to What?
What's The Next Move?
You don't have one
You just sit back with your lame ass boogie man theories and preach how participating in this system is a lame exercise of ignorance.
Perhaps you should get off the fucking sofa and actually participate and contribute to the system.
Maybe that way you can actually improve it.
You say your an Activist?
Well what the fuck have you done?
If you want to be taken seriously...Come up with an alternative that we can get behind.
Don't twist the Declaration of Independence and various philisophical waterhead qoutes around to explain your indolent and lethargic dissent.
It's a hollow Easter Egg and It holds no water until you actually present a solution to counteract what you say to be an pointless excerise of our Freedoms.
Voter turnout was piss poor especially amoung young voters.
We're the only ones to blame for 8 years of Bush.
How is not voting going to help prove who is the winner and who is the loser?!?!? Your 1st step to bring about a "MASS awakening" is to encourage people not to voice their opinion?
Okay, so why would you encourage people not to speak out?
Thanks for the answer mate.
I must say that is terribly disappointing that only half your population votes. Besides the fact Im still dumbfounded that its not compulsory.
Im also shocked at some of the negative attitudes re not wanting to vote - just plain old strange.
Bad attitude or lack of education????????????
Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me
http://pearljam.com/news/?what=News#285
same title so i thought it was apropos....:p
How many have a chance to win?
I say one thing and you accuse me of saying something else,I offer solutions and you say i have none,I voted and you tell me I'm wrong for not voting,i say I'm an activist and you act like you know what i have or haven't done when in fact you don't know a fucking thing about me! you claim i am a conspiracy theorist when i never said anything that could be construed as conspiracy.you have called me everything from a hippie to a couch potato.
You say i should be grateful for the right to vote and that people have died for that right? those people died believing that their chosen leaders would/are follow the same code.Just like there are still idiots who think that the military is fighting for freedom and democracy in Iraq when most of the world knows that's not the truth.
and as far as you saying I'm pissing on & twisting the D.O.I. goes that was just a moronic comment(which isn't surprising.)I grew up 20 minutes from the battle of Lexington & Concord and know plenty about revolutionary history(I'd be willing to bet it's a lot more than you know) and what it means to be a patriot.You on the other hand are just a loud mouth, pop'n a lot of shit but ain't really saying nothing (which ironically is what you accuse me of)
one last comment in regards to voting..the lack of a true choice has also made voting irrelevant.
voting isn't the answer when you have to pick between the lesser of 2 evils!
now I'm done with you for you are a waste of my time...so keep pop'n shit after i leave..that's all you know how to do.
I think it was Jesus that said not to "cast your pearls before swine"...i agree.
not a fucking one!!!
I don't advocate not voting based on apathy or laziness, but if someone makes an informed decision not to vote, I have no problem with that.
holly crap...do you think everything you watch on FOX NEWS is true? this is a perfect example of what is wrong with people in this country....believe whatever FOX NEWS says....
Jesse is nobody's fool!
looking at the electoral vote right now and McCain is way ahead! what will YOU do if McCain wins even though "we the people" don't want him and didn't vote him in?
update: now Obama is ahead in the electoral vote
if you voted today, THANK YOU on behalf of all who would have loved to vote in this historic election but cant (im only 16...). every vote does count, and dont take this important responsibility for granted! thanks again everyone (especially if you voted Obama
cant wait for next election- i can finally vote!