I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Come on Ahnimus. Tell the future. The U.S. invasion isn't even relevant to the statement you made; although it may be the only statement you have here. Tell us about the eventual hypothetical fall of the Iranian and Iraqi regimes. Make it juicy. Remember, Hollywood's listening...
"Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Come on Ahnimus. Tell the future. The U.S. invasion isn't even relevant to the statement you made; although it may be the only statement you have here. Tell us about the eventual hypothetical fall of the Iranian and Iraqi regimes. Make it juicy. Remember, Hollywood's listening...
All humans are human TMW32. The only thing that differs between you and your neighbour is your experience (excluding genetics). Just as Iran and the U.S. have different histories. But all paths lead to the same truth eventually.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
All humans are human TMW32. The only thing that differs between you and your neighbour is your experience (excluding genetics). Just as Iran and the U.S. have different histories. But all paths lead to the same truth eventually.
So when would the Iraqi regime have fallen? And when will the Iranian regime fall? You said it was assured, I'm just wondering when. Did I word my questions poorly? Hello?
"Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
So when would the Iraqi regime have fallen? And when will the Iranian regime fall? You said it was assured, I'm just wondering when. Did I word my questions poorly? Hello?
Iraq would have probably taken longer than you have the patience for. But I don't see how their culture was affecting your life. Iran will become more westernized naturally, probably within this century. We will likely see world-government and the absolution of diversity by next century as well, either by force or influence.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Iraq would have probably taken longer than you have the patience for. But I don't see how their culture was affecting your life. Iran will become more westernized naturally, probably within this century. We will likely see world-government and the absolution of diversity by next century as well, either by force or influence.
What do assumptions about my patience level have to do with anything? What are you even asserting with that statement? You've successfully moved your argument from one of assurance to one of probability. Furthermore, probabilities that you're pulling from the very air your breathing. Ahnimus, one this is certain... The murderous Iraqi regime ceases to exist because of third-party intervention, not because of third-party enlightenment. What and who Iraq was affecting, again, is not relevant to the questions I asked. You seemed at first to have had some sort of mythical Nostradamus-like abilities, which held my interest momentarily, but now seem to be nothing more than prophetical phsycobabble. Cheerio!
"Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
What do assumptions about my patience level have to do with anything? What are you even asserting with that statement? You've successfully moved your argument from one of assurance to one of probability. Furthermore, probabilities that you're pulling from the very air your breathing. Ahnimus, one this is certain... The murderous Iraqi regime ceases to exist because of third-party intervention, not because of third-party enlightenment. What and who Iraq was affecting, again, is not relevant to the questions I asked. You seemed at first to have had some sort of mythical Nostradamus-like abilities, which held my interest momentarily, but now seem to be nothing more than prophetical phsycobabble. Cheerio!
There is still a murderous Iraqi regime, but they are killing in the name of Americans now.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Well...Bush will be out soon enough. Then we'll see if America has really learned anything during the past 8 years.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Iraq would have probably taken longer than you have the patience for. But I don't see how their culture was affecting your life. Iran will become more westernized naturally, probably within this century. We will likely see world-government and the absolution of diversity by next century as well, either by force or influence.
I have the sudden urge to go read "1984"......again.
one foot in the door
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
That's such an isolationist view. If our foreign policy reflected your thinking, one day we would wake up and the entire Middle East and the life-blood of our the free-market economy and democratic governments would be controled my Islamic theocracies. Where would we be then?
With all of our intervention, it is nearly that way now.
perhaps it is becos of, and not despite our intervention that has fueled islamic theocracies?
im a big fan of isolationism. how would that be a problem? we were isolationist before ww2. when called to war, we managed to respond ok. do you have such little faith in the american people as to think we cant do it again if needed?
Not sure where to even start with this. Nobody came close to using nukes during the cold war? Go read about October 1962.
Excuse me, but I would rather not rely on somebody's judgement that Iran would not use nuclear weapons. Who knows if the mad-men that run their country wouldn't sacrifice 40 million of their own to wipe out the Jewish state for all of eternity. I'd rather make the sacrifices of another war to prevent them from getting these weapons in the first place than have to sleep every night knowing they have them and listening to their leadership boast about Israel being a "one bomb state". What kind of religious war is Bush wagin? One in which we hope the outcome gives all people of Iraq the freedom to choose their own beliefs... how dare us!!!!! Give me a break...
what people like you dont understand is that when countries like iran and iraq choose leaders who represent their beliefs, they choose leaders who hate america and would be willing to launch nukes at us. why? becos their people hate us and our decades' worth of meddling in their affairs.
So when would the Iraqi regime have fallen? And when will the Iranian regime fall? You said it was assured, I'm just wondering when. Did I word my questions poorly? Hello?
when saddam died and the country erupted into the civil war it's fighting now. only we wouldnt be caught in the crossfire.
I don't think so. I think Bush has learned a lot, but he insists he was right, and all of his unconditional supporters will just believe him.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
when saddam died and the country erupted into the civil war it's fighting now. only we wouldnt be caught in the crossfire.
Hypotheticals are fun, but they've been proven to be essentially a "junk science." What has hope ever brought anyone besides shear luck of the draw? Saddam had two sons in line to assume power in much the same manner dictatorships and likeminded governing bodies have worked for thousands of years. The question wasn't posed for today's literal interpretation, but rather pre-invasion with no eventual "third-party" intervention ever happening. I was told the Iraqi regime would have eventually fallen without third-party intervention. When I asked how, there was no logical argument as to why it would have besides the usual hypothetical, dreamy "it'll happen eventually" scenerio. Should the genocide that was ongoing inside Saddam's regime be allowed to happen simply because it wasn't affecting us? Using the model of thought Ahnimus presented, he has no legitimate argument for a resolution in the Darfur region, besides "hope." Who here has been affected by the events that have been taking place in Darfur? I mean, I'm sure it'll all work itself out sometime during the next century, but "who has the patience for that?" (Thanks Ahnimus) Granted I'm looking at this without the "Bush lied, people died" point of view, which is thusly irrelevant in this argument given that these events will have supposedly taken place without an Iraq War. I understand dealing with such a lightweight can be mindnumbing at times, but the question remains.
"Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
I don't think so. I think Bush has learned a lot, but he insists he was right, and all of his unconditional supporters will just believe him.
Let's hope that's not the case and opinions do change.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Hypotheticals are fun, but they've been proven to be essentially a "junk science." What has hope ever brought anyone besides shear luck of the draw? Saddam had two sons in line to assume power in much the same manner dictatorships and likeminded governing bodies have worked for thousands of years. The question wasn't posed for today's literal interpretation, but rather pre-invasion with no eventual "third-party" intervention ever happening. I was told the Iraqi regime would have eventually fallen without third-party intervention. When I asked how, there was no logical argument as to why it would have besides the usual hypothetical, dreamy "it'll happen eventually" scenerio. Should the genocide that was ongoing inside Saddam's regime be allowed to happen simply because it wasn't affecting us? Using the model of thought Ahnimus presented, he has no legitimate argument for a resolution in the Darfur region, besides "hope." Who here has been affected by the events that have been taking place in Darfur? I mean, I'm sure it'll all work itself out sometime during the next century, but "who has the patience for that?" (Thanks Ahnimus) Granted I'm looking at this without the "Bush lied, people died" point of view, which is thusly irrelevant in this argument given that these events will have supposedly taken place without an Iraq War. I understand dealing with such a lightweight can be mindnumbing at times, but the question remains.
are you talking to me? i told you how, no hypothetical. when saddam died, there would have been a power struggle. you think his two sons wanted to share power? you think the oppressed people wouldn't have used the opportunity to stir up some shit? the same thing will happen in cuba when castro dies. power vacuums create instability. this has always held true. especially with unstable and oppressive dictatorships. they are held together by the power and fear of the dictator and when that dictator is gone, so is the government. iraq would have either capitulated or fallen into civil war. and the "atrocities" of saddam's regime were of days past. he'd been a toothless tiger for a decade. shit, women had more rights in saddam's iraq than they do in saudi arabia or iran. as far as areas needing 3rd world intervention NOW, iraq was at the bottom of the list. it would have crumbled the day saddam died. and we wont make the same mistake in iran.
Whatever dude, think what you want. My view is based on the logic of the greater good. You don't have to agree with it, that's fine. But to me, it's better to kill thousands of Iraqi's to give millions a chance to prosper. That makes sense to me.
How are they prospering? Or how will they for that matter? Many surrounding countries don't have the "muderous regime" Iraq used to have and don't prosper either. I think one of the many lessons we should have learned from our own history is that poverty, desperation and the feeling of injustice leads to extremism. Until "we" (by we I don't mean you and me) rid this region of these problems all actions will look like a fist fight underwater. This is something you can easily see almost anywhere there is poverty.
I know it's two opposing points of view, I don't believe I'll change yours as you won't change mine but I believe the way to achieve peace is prosperity, education and a form of justice.
As for the argument of destroying Israel, well look at this argument :
the ruling classes in theocracies manipulate popular opinion through (stupid) religious rethorics. How will the popular opinion react when their governments express the wish to destroy the second most important place to muslims after the mecca? As a matter of fact have you ever heard any religious leader express the wish to destroy Jerusalem? And how do you destroy a religion? Not by destroying countries as we managed to prove by the way? So why destroy Israel? And how do you think the ruling classes could achieve their manipulations if the palestinian/israeli problem found a fair end? Would there be a need to destroy it with nuclear power? Wich is easier to do, achieve peace there or wage war in Iran? What is there to gain in both cases?
I have a lot more questions but most of them are boring so I'll stop there.
Comments
Humor me...
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
The U.S. invasion.
Come on Ahnimus. Tell the future. The U.S. invasion isn't even relevant to the statement you made; although it may be the only statement you have here. Tell us about the eventual hypothetical fall of the Iranian and Iraqi regimes. Make it juicy. Remember, Hollywood's listening...
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
All humans are human TMW32. The only thing that differs between you and your neighbour is your experience (excluding genetics). Just as Iran and the U.S. have different histories. But all paths lead to the same truth eventually.
So when would the Iraqi regime have fallen? And when will the Iranian regime fall? You said it was assured, I'm just wondering when. Did I word my questions poorly? Hello?
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
Iraq would have probably taken longer than you have the patience for. But I don't see how their culture was affecting your life. Iran will become more westernized naturally, probably within this century. We will likely see world-government and the absolution of diversity by next century as well, either by force or influence.
What do assumptions about my patience level have to do with anything? What are you even asserting with that statement? You've successfully moved your argument from one of assurance to one of probability. Furthermore, probabilities that you're pulling from the very air your breathing. Ahnimus, one this is certain... The murderous Iraqi regime ceases to exist because of third-party intervention, not because of third-party enlightenment. What and who Iraq was affecting, again, is not relevant to the questions I asked. You seemed at first to have had some sort of mythical Nostradamus-like abilities, which held my interest momentarily, but now seem to be nothing more than prophetical phsycobabble. Cheerio!
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
There is still a murderous Iraqi regime, but they are killing in the name of Americans now.
lol Your mind belongs in a museum.
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
Whatever you say Hitler.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
I have the sudden urge to go read "1984"......again.
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
perhaps it is becos of, and not despite our intervention that has fueled islamic theocracies?
im a big fan of isolationism. how would that be a problem? we were isolationist before ww2. when called to war, we managed to respond ok. do you have such little faith in the american people as to think we cant do it again if needed?
what people like you dont understand is that when countries like iran and iraq choose leaders who represent their beliefs, they choose leaders who hate america and would be willing to launch nukes at us. why? becos their people hate us and our decades' worth of meddling in their affairs.
That will be interesting to learn
when saddam died and the country erupted into the civil war it's fighting now. only we wouldnt be caught in the crossfire.
I don't think so. I think Bush has learned a lot, but he insists he was right, and all of his unconditional supporters will just believe him.
Hypotheticals are fun, but they've been proven to be essentially a "junk science." What has hope ever brought anyone besides shear luck of the draw? Saddam had two sons in line to assume power in much the same manner dictatorships and likeminded governing bodies have worked for thousands of years. The question wasn't posed for today's literal interpretation, but rather pre-invasion with no eventual "third-party" intervention ever happening. I was told the Iraqi regime would have eventually fallen without third-party intervention. When I asked how, there was no logical argument as to why it would have besides the usual hypothetical, dreamy "it'll happen eventually" scenerio. Should the genocide that was ongoing inside Saddam's regime be allowed to happen simply because it wasn't affecting us? Using the model of thought Ahnimus presented, he has no legitimate argument for a resolution in the Darfur region, besides "hope." Who here has been affected by the events that have been taking place in Darfur? I mean, I'm sure it'll all work itself out sometime during the next century, but "who has the patience for that?" (Thanks Ahnimus) Granted I'm looking at this without the "Bush lied, people died" point of view, which is thusly irrelevant in this argument given that these events will have supposedly taken place without an Iraq War. I understand dealing with such a lightweight can be mindnumbing at times, but the question remains.
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
Let's hope that's not the case and opinions do change.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
are you talking to me? i told you how, no hypothetical. when saddam died, there would have been a power struggle. you think his two sons wanted to share power? you think the oppressed people wouldn't have used the opportunity to stir up some shit? the same thing will happen in cuba when castro dies. power vacuums create instability. this has always held true. especially with unstable and oppressive dictatorships. they are held together by the power and fear of the dictator and when that dictator is gone, so is the government. iraq would have either capitulated or fallen into civil war. and the "atrocities" of saddam's regime were of days past. he'd been a toothless tiger for a decade. shit, women had more rights in saddam's iraq than they do in saudi arabia or iran. as far as areas needing 3rd world intervention NOW, iraq was at the bottom of the list. it would have crumbled the day saddam died. and we wont make the same mistake in iran.
How are they prospering? Or how will they for that matter? Many surrounding countries don't have the "muderous regime" Iraq used to have and don't prosper either. I think one of the many lessons we should have learned from our own history is that poverty, desperation and the feeling of injustice leads to extremism. Until "we" (by we I don't mean you and me) rid this region of these problems all actions will look like a fist fight underwater. This is something you can easily see almost anywhere there is poverty.
I know it's two opposing points of view, I don't believe I'll change yours as you won't change mine but I believe the way to achieve peace is prosperity, education and a form of justice.
As for the argument of destroying Israel, well look at this argument :
the ruling classes in theocracies manipulate popular opinion through (stupid) religious rethorics. How will the popular opinion react when their governments express the wish to destroy the second most important place to muslims after the mecca? As a matter of fact have you ever heard any religious leader express the wish to destroy Jerusalem? And how do you destroy a religion? Not by destroying countries as we managed to prove by the way? So why destroy Israel? And how do you think the ruling classes could achieve their manipulations if the palestinian/israeli problem found a fair end? Would there be a need to destroy it with nuclear power? Wich is easier to do, achieve peace there or wage war in Iran? What is there to gain in both cases?
I have a lot more questions but most of them are boring so I'll stop there.