Clinton to GARNISH WAGES......

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Comments

  • michaelcassio
    michaelcassio Posts: 72
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    In a system like the one the US has where no one is forced to pay into the system how do you deal with people with no coverage who need essential medical attention? I mean lets say there is a person, with no insurance, who is in a car accident and is brought to a hospital unconscious, has surgery but never wakes up and after 10 days in ICU he dies. This person would be getting 1000's of dollars or free health care all because he has no insurance, and it is not like they can bill him once he is dead. Personally I would much rather live in a society where I know odds are the person coming into the hospital has at least contributed to the health care system through taxes. I mean it is not like an ambulance would check his wallet and then just leave him by the road if he had no insurance card.

    if a patient comes into the emergency room and requires immediate medical attention, the hospital is required by law to give him/her that attention regardless of his insurance status. what happens to the bill? i honestly dont know and i see your point. however, situations such as this are not causing hospital bankruptcies, as far as i know, so the bill is rather unimportant. i would like to see how many cases such as this there are. i mean, we could play "what if" all day.
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    michaelcassio wrote:
    if a patient comes into the emergency room and requires immediate medical attention, the hospital is required by law to give him/her that attention regardless of his insurance status. what happens to the bill? i honestly dont know and i see your point. however, situations such as this are not causing hospital bankruptcies, as far as i know, so the bill is rather unimportant. i would like to see how many cases such as this there are. i mean, we could play "what if" all day.

    My point was most a lot of people seem to feel that I pay for my health care so why should I pay for someone elses. If you need emergency attention and you can't pay the bill (or you die before you pay the bill), then other people arew paying your bill so it kind of defeats that argument.
  • michaelcassio
    michaelcassio Posts: 72
    i like obama's idea of making health insurance more affordable. is it possible? i dont know, but if it is, being able to make the decision of whether or not to purchase healthcare is essential. a US Census Bureu study a couple of years ago showed that nearly 18 million americans CAN, in fact, afford healthcare but simply choose not to buy it. this reminds of a friend who got a new job a couple years back and decided to buy a brand new maxima instead of health insurance. i didnt agree with his decision but who am i to tell him what to do with his monthly paycheck? if we won't be smart enough to buy healthcare when we can, maybe we should re-invest all the tax money we would spend on universal healthcare into better education.
  • michaelcassio
    michaelcassio Posts: 72
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    My point was most a lot of people seem to feel that I pay for my health care so why should I pay for someone elses. If you need emergency attention and you can't pay the bill (or you die before you pay the bill), then other people arew paying your bill so it kind of defeats that argument.

    who else is paying the bill?
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    michaelcassio wrote:
    who else is paying the bill?

    Everyone else who uses the hospital or has insurance. I doubt a hospital would just eat the cost of a bunch of medical care they handed out. So they would have to make enough money from everyone else to cover the people who can't or don't pay.
  • michaelcassio
    michaelcassio Posts: 72
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    Everyone else who uses the hospital or has insurance. I doubt a hospital would just eat the cost of a bunch of medical care they handed out. So they would have to make enough money from everyone else to cover the people who can't or don't pay.

    right, but this wouldn't cause my insurance bill to go up. i pay the same every month, regardless of how many emergency treatments are administered to uninsured patients. i dont know the system well enough to tell you exactly how that bill is covered. i'll leave that to the hospital (and whatever insurance company may be involved) to figure out.
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    michaelcassio wrote:
    right, but this wouldn't cause my insurance bill to go up. i pay the same every month, regardless of how many emergency treatments are administered to uninsured patients. i dont know the system well enough to tell you exactly how that bill is covered. i'll leave that to the hospital (and whatever insurance company may be involved) to figure out.

    I think it would be the same as if someone had no car insurance, in the long run if people keep getting in car accidents with no insurance the system has to absorb those costs and passes those costs onto everyone else. I mean most places won't let you drive around without car insurance, since why should other people have to pay if you mess up, so why should it be any different for health? The idea that one person not having health insurance won't have an affect on anyone else is ridiculous.
  • michaelcassio
    michaelcassio Posts: 72
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    I think it would be the same as if someone had no car insurance, in the long run if people keep getting in car accidents with no insurance the system has to absorb those costs and passes those costs onto everyone else. I mean most places won't let you drive around without car insurance, since why should other people have to pay if you mess up, so why should it be any different for health? The idea that one person not having health insurance won't have an affect on anyone else is ridiculous.

    exactly, why should others have to pay if you mess up? your right, if you dont have car insurance (or can't afford it) you shouldn't be driving around. if you don't have health insurance (or can't afford it) you need to be very careful in the way you conduct yourself on a daily basis (eat healthy, don't take any physical risks, etc...). i realize that this isn't quite fair because what if someon else is the cause of your trip to the hospital? well, the insurance of that other person would then cover your medical bills, just as the car insurance of the person causing the accident pays for the damage of the cars. his insurance bills will probably go up, but it was his fault so this is only fair.
  • OutOfBreath
    OutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    DriftingByTheStorm wrote:
    I'm glad you are happy getting less for more, and being told that it is what is best.
    We get just as good or better for less, actually, when looking on total expenses and degree of coverage. That's a fun irony with your system in the US. A system like europe has would probably be less expensive than the stop-gap programs you have now. That would require a big makeover though, and leave a lot of insurance companies surplus.
    Honestly, Europe DOES have a lot figured out. They are WAY ahead of the ball on environmental issues and on city planning concerning livability & transportation, and lord knows their agriculture\food system is more wholesome ...

    that being said, none of those things really have anything to do with centralized socialist planning, so much as they do with the early arival of resource scarcity to the european continent VS. the US more abundant supply, the rail infrastucture that existed in europe and the fact that most european cities predated cars and therefore could not easily be reotrofited to function like big nasty sprawled american cities ... and the density\layout of european cities ... in otherwords FREE MARKET FORCES determined most of what was good in Europe, not the central government.
    Actually it is more because of interplay between authorities and the market. Kings way back in time has decided where cities are situated today. Cities grew up under strict rules from the monarchs. I have heard from other people that always attribute everything good to the market and everything bad to the state, when the reality is that both good and bad are results of the interplay between the two. Dividing it up is strictly an opinion/ideological matter. Europe is much denser populated, which is why stuff is more organized and figured out over here in regards to environment and living arrangements. They have to be. But Europe (or anywhere for that matter) have never been subject to exclusively the free market. No, never the US either.
    DriftingByTheStorm wrote:
    But i'm glad you take stock in your happy socialist world.
    I've never been to Norway, but i made it to Holland, and everyone was quite congenial and very nice. Hell they even felt bad for us poor Americans.
    But i still don't fancy socialisim, and i sure am glad you won't be voting over here!
    :D
    Not to worry. My vote would probably just be wasted on Kucinich, since few of you seem to care for him.. :)

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • DriftingByTheStorm
    DriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    OutOfBreath wrote:
    Not to worry. My vote would probably just be wasted on Kucinich, since few of you seem to care for him.. :)

    Peace
    Dan

    In a perfect world Kucinich would be the VP on a Paul\Kucinich ticket.
    I know the two are close personal friends.

    :D
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • binauralsounds
    binauralsounds Posts: 1,357
    callen wrote:
    BS...born and raised....gma and uncle still live there...my Gma gets incredible care.

    Call it what you will. NOT bs to my friend and my inlaws still there. Matter of interpretation I guess. Just saying what they tell me.
  • evenkat
    evenkat Posts: 380
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Both CLintons....Hillary and Bill...are slime. In just about every aspect. Slime. The thought that you should force someone to buy Health Care (because you know what's good for them) is a typical Dem move. Bunch of crap. If you make it affordable and they don't do anything about it...so be it.

    Well the Dem's moves sound a lot better than the repub's moves in the past 7 years! The repub's have almost destroyed our country being in control for so long.

    The article says 'Clinton said such measures would apply only to workers who can afford health coverage but refuse to buy it, which puts undue pressure on hospitals and emergency rooms. With her proposals for subsidies, she said, "it will be affordable for everyone.'
    "...believe in lies...to get by...it's divine...whoa...oh, you know what its like..."
  • nick1977
    nick1977 Posts: 327
    The government does not steal your money when you pay taxes. I have no problem paying taxes. We all pay taxes, and our tax money is supposed to be used for the greater good. Universal health care is a greater good that a nation as wealthy as ours should be willing to provide.

    Traumatic illnesses such as cancer can hit any one at any time. People give birth to children who require months of hosipitalization all the time. It could happen to any of us. Why should one person have to pay for an illness that just happened to hit that person instead of you?

    We must find a way to provide health coverage for all Americans.
  • ajedigecko
    ajedigecko \m/deplorable af \m/ Posts: 2,431
    nick1977 wrote:
    The government does not steal your money when you pay taxes. I have no problem paying taxes. We all pay taxes, and our tax money is supposed to be used for the greater good. Universal health care is a greater good that a nation as wealthy as ours should be willing to provide.

    Traumatic illnesses such as cancer can hit any one at any time. People give birth to children who require months of hosipitalization all the time. It could happen to any of us. Why should one person have to pay for an illness that just happened to hit that person instead of you?

    We must find a way to provide health coverage for all Americans.
    i agree.
    live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,959
    evenkat wrote:
    Well the Dem's moves sound a lot better than the repub's moves in the past 7 years! The repub's have almost destroyed our country being in control for so long.

    The article says 'Clinton said such measures would apply only to workers who can afford health coverage but refuse to buy it, which puts undue pressure on hospitals and emergency rooms. With her proposals for subsidies, she said, "it will be affordable for everyone.'


    Of course she says that...it still doesn't take away the fact that the Government will be telling someone that they have to buy Healthcare. If it's affordable and they still don't buy it...it's on them.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,959
    nick1977 wrote:
    We must find a way to provide health coverage for all Americans.


    I think we must find a way to make Health Care affordable so that everyone that wants it can get it...not we must provide health coverage for all Americans.

    It makes sense to me to cover all Children, always has...but eventually, people have to be responsible for their decisions. Right now, it is unaffordable to too many...fix that and let them make the choice.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • DriftingByTheStorm
    DriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    nick1977 wrote:
    The government does not steal your money when you pay taxes. I have no problem paying taxes. We all pay taxes, and our tax money is supposed to be used for the greater good. Universal health care is a greater good that a nation as wealthy as ours should be willing to provide.

    Traumatic illnesses such as cancer can hit any one at any time. People give birth to children who require months of hosipitalization all the time. It could happen to any of us. Why should one person have to pay for an illness that just happened to hit that person instead of you?

    We must find a way to provide health coverage for all Americans.

    In life, the dealer often hands out bad cards to good people.

    Thats part of life man.
    I'm not heartless, but its dishonest to say its not theft when it is OUTRIGHT theft ... ESPECIALY garnishing wages directly.

    If i break in to your house and take your safe and say, "yeah, my wife is sick. Why shoud I have to pay for it and not everybody?" how the hell are you going to feel? [This is hypothetical man, don't freak out. I don't have a wife.]

    How is it ANY different when the GOVERNMENT does it?
    The difference is, if i rob you, i'm probably going to jail. When the government does it, it is "for the public good" and it s a noble action.

    The only other difference is it is LYNCH MOB mentality. The government is backed by lots of well meaning people who seem to just not understand that subsidisation is pure evil, and the fact that the government has the backing of a massive mob, means the victim (the tax payer who doesn't agree) is powerless.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • michaelcassio
    michaelcassio Posts: 72
    cincybearcat wrote:
    I think we must find a way to make Health Care affordable so that everyone that wants it can get it...not we must provide health coverage for all Americans.

    It makes sense to me to cover all Children, always has...but eventually, people have to be responsible for their decisions. Right now, it is unaffordable to too many...fix that and let them make the choice.

    i agree 100%. we have to be able to make the choice ourselves. we can't be a nation led blindly by a government that for whatever reason wants our money. i'm not saying anyone/everyone in our government is corrupt but i feel there are probably some who are not sincere. money is always lost and unaccounted for in big governments. ask anyone from spain and they'll agree.

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