There goes the Neighborhood

2

Comments

  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    Commy wrote:
    Terrrorism IS a reaction.

    yeah, wanting to exist tends to elicit reactions
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • pejamrl
    pejamrl Posts: 35
    Commy wrote:
    Could? Could what? stand up on their own? Their wouldn't be an Israel without the United States...that should be obvious.

    Asking for war? When hundreds of your people -and to the palestinians who have a strong sense of community and togetherness, unlike here in the United States-to lose ONE of their own is profound. They are going to try and get them back. And its not one, its hundreds of their people sitting in Israeli jails, women and CHILDREN.

    Hezbollah was trying to get them back....so Israel started a war.

    Exactly, I mean how many people supporting Israel know that the escalation of violence started with Israel. When Israeli soldiers abducted two civilians from Gaza, a doctor and his brother. The location and fate of these two men are unknown. Then came the response which everyone here knows about quite well, Oh by the way the previous event happened on June 24th the next day an Israeli soldier was abducted, Corporal Gilad Shalit and then the military response by Israel.
    Mansfield Sept 16,98'
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  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    keeponrockin wrote:
    I hope the US stays the fuck out.

    LOL!!!! Now, thats a good one!!!
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • OneLove
    OneLove Posts: 563
    pjrvm wrote:
    If a war starts the US will most definately get involved and there will be screaming and crying to no end. If the US does not get involved and lets the two sides kill each other off there will be the same people saying, "How can the US let this happen". Think what you want of George Bush and his government but he has faced (and seemingly will face another) a number of dilemmas during his nearly 6 years in office. Regardless of what happens in the middle east the United States will be blamed for it by the rest of the world and by its own citizens. Don't think for a minute that there wouldn't have been the same amount of backlash and criticism of Bush if he had decided not to go into Iraq and Afghanastan. The criticism would have taken the form of "why aren't we defending our country". War is a terrible thing, but we don't live in a perfect world and sometimes it has to happen. So think for a while about both sides of a decision before we start pinning the problems in the middle east on the US and on George Bush.
    PS. I'm a Canadian, I'm curious as to what our government's reaction will be.

    Great post, just one question though. What would the backlash have been to not invading Iraq? I understand the propoganda released by the US suggesting that Sadam and Iraq posed a direct threat to the US, all of which has been later scaled down (I'm trying to be diplomatic here). Seriously, I think Sadam is a horrible excuse for a human, but I am not sure that most folks would have been upset if we didn't invade.

    Afghanistan is a totally different subject, I completely agree with you on that.

    I hope this makes sense, going on 24 hours with no sleep here.
  • keeponrockin
    keeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    There was someone on the news channel saying that the U.S. is reduced to sitting on the sideline... I think that's where we should be.
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    OneLove wrote:
    Great post, just one question though. What would the backlash have been to not invading Iraq? I understand the propoganda released by the US suggesting that Sadam and Iraq posed a direct threat to the US, all of which has been later scaled down (I'm trying to be diplomatic here). Seriously, I think Sadam is a horrible excuse for a human, but I am not sure that most folks would have been upset if we didn't invade.

    Afghanistan is a totally different subject, I completely agree with you on that.

    I hope this makes sense, going on 24 hours with no sleep here.

    I don't mean to be a prick (well I am, AND i've also been sleep deprived) but I'm not sure what you're getting at with your post. If you hate W and think he lied, there are plenty of threads for that, threads that have yet to actually document any lies.

    To me, this thread is about differences between people that live in a theoretical world where we can all hold hands and dance around camp fires together and people that understand that power corrupts, and that we are in a dangerous time.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • brain of c
    brain of c Posts: 5,213
    war.......what is it good for?

    There goes the Neighborhood is a good joe walsh album.
    d'oh!!!!!!

    http://www.myspace.com/brain_of_c
  • binauralsounds
    binauralsounds Posts: 1,357
    keeponrockin wrote:
    There was someone on the news channel saying that the U.S. is reduced to sitting on the sideline... I think that's where we should be.

    I will predict this! If this continues and syria AND Iran become involved (even tho most know iran is funding hezbollah) then the U.S. has no choice but to get involved and WILL.
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    brain of c wrote:
    war.......what is it good for?


    existence.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    To me, this thread is about differences between people that live in a theoretical world where we can all hold hands and dance around camp fires together and people that understand that power corrupts, and that we are in a dangerous time.


    See and here I thought this thread was about a current issue in which we can discuss and express our different opinions. I didn't realize that there was a right and a wrong opinion to have.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    binauralsounds wrote:
    I will predict this! If this continues and syria AND Iran become involved (even tho most know iran is funding hezbollah) then the U.S. has no choice but to get involved and WILL.

    I agree. Unfortunately, I think it will take mass casualties on the homeland for people to wake up :(
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • ryan198
    ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    Oh how convenient...
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    mammasan wrote:
    See and here I thought this thread was about a current issue in which we can discuss and express our different opinions. I didn't realize that there was a right and a wrong opinion to have.

    It's not a "current issue," it's reality. Israel's right to exist is not recognized by a number of people and unfortunately some heads of state in the region. This isn't up for debate. It's a fact. Speaking as someone who agrees with the idea of nation states, I agree with them defending their right to exist.

    If you have a more direct criticism (specifically, of captialism or the existence of nation states, I'd be happy to engage). But I HATE theoretical bullshit.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • OneLove
    OneLove Posts: 563
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    I don't mean to be a prick (well I am, AND i've also been sleep deprived) but I'm not sure what you're getting at with your post. If you hate W and think he lied, there are plenty of threads for that, threads that have yet to actually document any lies.

    To me, this thread is about differences between people that live in a theoretical world where we can all hold hands and dance around camp fires together and people that understand that power corrupts, and that we are in a dangerous time.

    I actually wasn't going after W. The simple question, what would the backlash have been against W if he had not invaded Iraq? I thought PJRVM's post was actually quite thoughtful, and gave W credit for doing the best he can do in a shit situation in the world right now.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    It's not a "current issue," it's reality. Israel's right to exist is not recognized by a number of people and unfortunately some heads of state in the region. This isn't up for debate. It's a fact. Speaking as someone who agrees with the idea of nation states, I agree with them defending their right to exist.

    If you have a more direct criticism (specifically, of captialism or the existence of nation states, I'd be happy to engage). But I HATE theoretical bullshit.

    I have no problem with Israel right to exist and I realize the full extend of the situation in the Middle East. Also in caseyou had your eyes closed while viewing the thread it's not about Israel's right to exist it's about the recent attack by Hizbollah and Israel's response. I'm pretty sure that 99.9999999% of the people on this message board believe that Israel has the right to exist.

    Lastly if you consider my post theoritical bullshit that you hate then quit responding to them.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    Commy wrote:
    on their own? Israel is using US gunships in their war. US tanks, US guns, US bullets, US armor, US jets, US surveillance, US satellites, US support.

    Most definetly not on their own.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1990/BCE.htm


    ha, glad i scrolled down before replying!
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • pjrvm
    pjrvm Posts: 99
    OneLove wrote:
    I actually wasn't going after W. The simple question, what would the backlash have been against W if he had not invaded Iraq? I thought PJRVM's post was actually quite thoughtful, and gave W credit for doing the best he can do in a shit situation in the world right now.

    My point about not invading Iraq was that way back when the US did invade Iraq the evidence was seemingly pretty clear that they had WMDs and were involved in 9/11 etc etc. Looking back now it's very easy to critisize.

    However, at the time it seemed like invading Iraq was a good thing and many Americans/citizens of the world agreed. Maybe what the US gov't was telling us all about Iraq and Saddam was bullshit, but I for one believe that the powers that be did NOT intentionally mislead us.(this may sound naive, but what I mean is that they didn't knowingly make false statements to get the US people on-side with them).

    The unfortunate thing is, there was no time to sit and ponder and dig deeper, as the UN wanted. So the US invaded Iraq. If we had all the same evidence that we did then and did NOT go into Iraq, Bush would have been critisized for that.

    My problem with the Iraq war is that it was underestimated. I believe that removing Saddam was a good thing and that it is a "step in the right direction". Unfortunatley it doesn't seem to have made a immediate positive impact, but at least it's a start, I hope. I'm starting to think more and more that there isn't a solution for the problems in that part of the world.
    In conclusion, invading Iraq, not a bad thing, the way it was and is being done, not a good thing.
    So 10,000 words and tons of spelling mistakes later I'm done. Thanks to those that had the patience to read all this.
    Great thread by the way.
    Does this thing have a word limit? haha
  • thankyougrandma
    thankyougrandma Posts: 1,182
    terrible terrible, bravo to those who are pushing for this, they succeed once again....
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
  • thankyougrandma
    thankyougrandma Posts: 1,182
    pjrvm wrote:
    PS. I'm a Canadian, I'm curious as to what our government's reaction will be.

    same as the USA, we'll have to get use to this from now on, i think i'll go puke a little...
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
  • Abuskedti
    Abuskedti Posts: 1,917
    binauralsounds wrote:
    Don't have a link yet, but syria now fully and officially supports Hezbollah in it's fight against Israel! Which, of course, Iran supports syria.

    Here we go!! Hang on folks!!!!

    yes, and we have more important things to do.. Right now we are busy firing bulets, dropping bombs trying to sculpt an Iraq that will vindicate the stupidest move in American history

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