And please don't sit there and try to convince me that YOU would be willing to drop what you're doing and fight a war that YOU believe in.
I know this is a fashionable approach for liberals to take when "discussing" the Iraq war.
But, let's all be honest. No liberal here will ever agree with any war being fought in the present tense.
wrong again. im a liberal. i agreed with afghanistan. if i had been asked to serve, i would have gone without hesitation. we had good reason to go to war there and my issue with iraq is not that it's a war, it's that it's an unecessary and expensive war that distracted us from successfully finishing what we started in afghanistan. we should have stayed there until we had bin laden, the taliban was thoroughly uprooted, and a viable, working democracy was in place. iraq was not a threat to us and we weren't prepared to fight it. we had no long term plan for post-war iraq. we just couldn't find bin laden, bush's polls were sagging, and he needed a distraction. he figured out that being a war-time president was good for his numbers and image and afghanistan wasnt providing enough drama, so he stepped it up a notch.
How many War Supporters would have been War Supporters if there was a risk of their asses being sent over there? How many would be supporters if there was a risk of thier kids being sent there?
It's real easy to 'support a war' by sitting on your ass and uttering the words, "I support The War" from the comfort of your home. It's another thing if there is a risk of that yellow envelope coming in the mail stating you have been selected to serve.
...
This is a political ploy to get the Cable Talking ShitHeads all in a tizzy so their A.D.D. afflicted audience can run around in circles, screaming like little girlie-fucks. The thing has been batted around since 2002 to illustrate the point that the rich fuckers (in Congress and in politics in General) do not have a stake at risk in this War. That if their fucking snot nose spoiled fucking spawn had to strap on the Kevlar and patrol the streets of Baghdad, maybe they wouldn't be so eager to rush into a warzone. It's GOOD to fight a war with someone else's family.
The War in Afghanistan has reason and justification... September 11, 2001 attacks, Taliban hosting terror trainning camps, housing Usama Bin Laden and al Qaeda. Iraq was and is not a justified war. Lying to us by scaring us into believing we should go to war is not justifiable.
...
All this post proves is that a lot of you haven't been paying attention to the past 4 years. Maybe it's time you get your noses out of Grand Theft Auto III and pay attention before spouting out your innane political opinions.
...
Finally... how many of you would still be supporting this war, with the same decisions and outcomes, if it was Al Gore in the Oval Office? How do you think Rush Limbaugh would feel? Would FOX News broadcasts and Op/Ed pieces be the same?
I'm going out on a limb and saying things would be different to a lot of people.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
How many War Supporters would have been War Supporters if there was a risk of their asses being sent over there? How many would be supporters if there was a risk of thier kids being sent there?
It's real easy to 'support a war' by sitting on your ass and uttering the words, "I support The War" from the comfort of your home. It's another thing if there is a risk of that yellow envelope coming in the mail stating you have been selected to serve.
How many War Supporters would have been War Supporters if there was a risk of their asses being sent over there? How many would be supporters if there was a risk of thier kids being sent there?
How many people would sign up for the military if they are opposed to fighting in wars? How many would let their kids sign up for the military if they are opposed to fighting in wars?
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
How many people would sign up for the military if they are opposed to fighting in wars? How many would let their kids sign up for the military if they are opposed to fighting in wars?
...
I don't understand these questions.
If you are opposed to this war... why would you even sign up?
If your kid is 18... that's his call, not yours. Unless your kid is a momma's boy.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Ahh the dems hit the ground running. PUSH FOR DRAFT!!!!!!!
Rep. Rangel Will Seek to Reinstate Draft
WASHINGTON -- Americans would have to sign up for a new military draft after turning 18 if the incoming chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee has his way.
the draft aint the worst thing in the world.i think its a great way for folks to do there land a service. sure i wouldnt go to iraq volontarly, i have a kid.if not then ide go right away.but if i had to i would b privledged.not 2 mention the hero's recpetion u get when u come back home.
I’d thank my lucky stars,
to be livin here today.
‘Cause the flag still stands for freedom,
and they can’t take that away.
And I’m proud to be an American,
where at least I know I’m free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.
the draft aint the worst thing in the world.i think its a great way for folks to do there land a service. sure i wouldnt go to iraq volontarly, i have a kid.if not then ide go right away.but if i had to i would b privledged.not 2 mention the hero's recpetion u get when u come back home.
you'd be 'privledged' to do something you admit you would have to be forced to do???
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
the draft aint the worst thing in the world.i think its a great way for folks to do there land a service. sure i wouldnt go to iraq volontarly, i have a kid.if not then ide go right away.but if i had to i would b privledged.not 2 mention the hero's recpetion u get when u come back home.
...
I think you are slightly dillusional.
Blaming your kid as your reasoning for not getting the 'Privilege' to fight in Iraq?
As for the homecoming... we are already seeing veterans of this war being questioned about the validity of the problems they are facing when they come home. People (mostly pansey civilians that haven't got a clue about the military) question things like Post Tramatic Stress Disorder and other related physical and emotional scars left by war. To those people, their fucking tax cuts are more important than treating a 22 year old Army Specialist who is having difficulties 'fitting back in' to society. There's your 'Support The Troops'... a slogan, and nothing else.
Just be honest... you won't go, so don't say you would... if you felt that strongly, you'd be over there.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
I think you are slightly dillusional.
Blaming your kid as your reasoning for not getting the 'Privilege' to fight in Iraq?
As for the homecoming... we are already seeing veterans of this war being questioned about the validity of the problems they are facing when they come home. People (mostly pansey civilians that haven't got a clue about the military) question things like Post Tramatic Stress Disorder and other related physical and emotional scars left by war. To those people, their fucking tax cuts are more important than treating a 22 year old Army Specialist who is having difficulties 'fitting back in' to society. There's your 'Support The Troops'... a slogan, and nothing else.
Just be honest... you won't go, so don't say you would... if you felt that strongly, you'd be over there.
You probaly feel strongly about helping the people of darfur but i dont se you over there, do i?
Ahh the dems hit the ground running. PUSH FOR DRAFT!!!!!!!
Rep. Rangel Will Seek to Reinstate Draft
WASHINGTON -- Americans would have to sign up for a new military draft after turning 18 if the incoming chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee has his way.
Just another weak attempt to force the public to be as anti war as they are. The dems nor him want a draft. They want Joe Public to not support the war. Weak.
And please don't sit there and try to convince me that YOU would be willing to drop what you're doing and fight a war that YOU believe in.
I know this is a fashionable approach for liberals to take when "discussing" the Iraq war.
But, let's all be honest. No liberal here will ever agree with any war being fought in the present tense.
I would, for the right cause. It would take a whole lot more that a dictator that poses no real threat to the U.S., I can tell you that. I already served and would do it again if I felt it was necessary.
...
Going to Darfur to do what? Please, what does non-U.S. involvement in Darfur have to do with full U.S. military involvement in Iraq?
I believe hes referring to the many who demand to know why if we (the US) care so much about the people of Iraq, why we arent involved in helping the people of Darfur.
I believe hes referring to the many who demand to know why if we (the US) care so much about the people of Iraq, why we arent involved in helping the people of Darfur.
Unless Im missing something.
...
Oh... okay. I mean, I use that analogy when people use the excuse of 'Helping the poor oppressed people of Iraq find freedom' for getting our military personel caught up in that bullshit. If THOSE people (the ones using that lame excuse) felt that way... then, they should be the ones calling for U.S. military involvement in Darfur.
...
As for Darfur... I believe that it is going to take more than sending in Marines to kill 'em all. That is a political problem that requires a political solution. The fucking U.N. is supposed to be in that business... put their asses on it. All of those fucking African Nations that participate in it for some benefit or another are part of the problem. They infest the U.N. and bicker over bullshit and nothing is accomplished.
Is is a tragedy? Yes, of momumental proportions.
Is it a U.S. Problem? No... it is mainly an Africa problem.
I wouldn't mind if they (African Nations) were serious about fixing it and asked us for assistance... then, YES... that is the noble and right thing to do. But, to expect us to go in and fix their problems... NO. We are NOT the world's cops.
NOTE: You can substitute Iraq for Darfur and Middle Eastern Nations for African Nations in the above statement.
...
Miller was just upset because I haven't been commenting on his opinions, lately. Some people just need more attention than others.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
You're right. Enlisting never even occured to me. I did not believe in the Gulf war and was to young to serve anyway at the time. As for the other stuff. I ranged from support, to being on the fence to being against things, depending on the action. And I did not enlist. I did not want my life interrupted (college binge drinking, the whole nine yards). And it was a luxury I had.
Perhaps my privalaged upper-middle class ass can be exhibit A as to why there ought to be a draft. Or perhaps there does not need to be a draft for most of the above. I don't know.
But the bottom line is that you are right. I was never going to enlist. And my "liberal guilt" gets at me at times, but I still never step up to the plate.
But if we had a draft, perhaps I'd have had to do something (although these activities would never have led to a draft)? Who knows.
Anyway, you got me. In some circumstances I may volunteer--legitimate national defense, though at that point, most able bodied males are probably being drafted anyway. But not for the above. My excuse: The numbers are sufficiant, I have asthma so they would not send me. But I admit it. The bottom line is that you are right. I am letting those that A) have more interest in the military and joined because they did not have my advantages do the good deeds in those places around the globe.
By the way, you use the term "Dems". I am not a "Dem." And while I am a "lib", you cannot honestly believe that it is just the Dems or the libs that are guilty of letting the volunteers do this while free riding. This spans the entire political spectrum and all parties.
Well said. I agree with your last paragraph, it's not just the dems, this issue spreads across the board.
Right now... a very, very small portion of the population of the U.S. is being affected by this Iraq War. It is the soldiers and their families that are paying the price. They are the ones doing all the work.
Yet, in the name of saving our taxes for ourselves, we cut veteran's benefits and come up with lame excuses to ignore the real emotional scars that our returning war veterans face.
If everyone had a stake in this venture... then, maybe we wouldn't trapse off to war just for the heck of it.
If I were in charge of this all voluenteer military... I would take care of the War veterans and their families by paying their families their full salaries... for the National Guardsmen and Reservists that are pulled away from their civilian jobs. War wounded... I'd use the taxes to pay off their mortgages and pay for their medical requirements til the day they die. The War dead... I'd take care of their families.
Most of all... I would not send them into battle unless there was absolutely no alternative option left to exercise.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
if the dems don;t want a war, they shouldn;t vote to give dummy a blank check and auth to start one!
fuckin dems....
for years, the left (which i am a part of) have been threatening that if we re-elect the Right, we will have adraft. it was all the buzz before the '06 elections. But the only people pushing for it are dems!!!!
Where are you from and does your country of origin currently have a military draft?
Mine does, though we havent had a real war since like forever, and if you are attending school (meaning college of course) you are excused.
I dont agree with military draft in the US, I'll be an american citizen in 2008, though I've lived here 24 outta the 28 years of my life, but I think that for my 3 sons I would want them to have the choice of whether they want to go fight a war or not. Specially with all the bonehead wars the US likes to get involved in :S
"Without the album covers, where do you clean your pot?" - EV
I think the draft should be reinstated, maybe this way the people will think twice before they get into another unnessesary war. I agree with Sen. Rangel because right now only a portion of the country is doing all the work and if this is such a noble couse then what is the problem with everyone paying the same price.
I see the point that Rengel is trying to get across, but he is not "supporting a draft". In fact, when he brought up the bill a few years ago and it was voted against 402-2, he actually voted against the bill. I don't think there's any way a draft is going to be implemented any time soon. It just wouldn't be feasable and wouldn't work with the form of military we have today. And I don't see how people can be saying that "the dems are for a draft" when almost every single one of them openly state that they do not support it and vote against it when a bill comes up.
I see the point that Rengel is trying to get across, but he is not "supporting a draft". In fact, when he brought up the bill a few years ago and it was voted against 402-2, he actually voted against the bill. I don't think there's any way a draft is going to be implemented any time soon. It just wouldn't be feasable and wouldn't work with the form of military we have today. And I don't see how people can be saying that "the dems are for a draft" when almost every single one of them openly state that they do not support it and vote against it when a bill comes up.
Thank god (or allah, or whoever you want to thank) that congress continues to waste time on stupid stuff. I really didn;t need those tax dollars anyhow...keep spending away, raising your own pay and talking about stupid issues that have no chance to pass...great work ladies and gents.
Thank god (or allah, or whoever you want to thank) that congress continues to waste time on stupid stuff. I really didn;t need those tax dollars anyhow...keep spending away, raising your own pay and talking about stupid issues that have no chance to pass...great work ladies and gents.
This a "just" war, right? Don't those who support this war want to use every resource available...? As many have said, this "war on terror" can go on for many, many years, the US is going to need more boots on the ground, right....?
This a "just" war, right? Don't those who support this war want to use every resource available...? As many have said, this "war on terror" can go on for many, many years, the US is going to need more boots on the ground, right....?
Not really..............even if this was a "just" war, it wouldn't make sense to put more boots on the ground. Todays soldier isn't what he or she was 40 years ago. You can't just put people on a firing range and teach them how to use a grenade and send them out anymore. And it's not like there's a recuitment problem right now, although that is what popular media would like you to think. Anyways, the point trying to be made is valid, but actually reinstating the draft isn't.............you can't force patriotism.
Thank god (or allah, or whoever you want to thank) that congress continues to waste time on stupid stuff. I really didn;t need those tax dollars anyhow...keep spending away, raising your own pay and talking about stupid issues that have no chance to pass...great work ladies and gents.
...
This is how I feel about our government.
Which is EXACTLY WHY I don't want them intruding into my personal life with their 'Homeland Security' bullshit. If they want to tap my phone or check my bank accounts... get a fucking warrant... assholes.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Comments
wrong again. im a liberal. i agreed with afghanistan. if i had been asked to serve, i would have gone without hesitation. we had good reason to go to war there and my issue with iraq is not that it's a war, it's that it's an unecessary and expensive war that distracted us from successfully finishing what we started in afghanistan. we should have stayed there until we had bin laden, the taliban was thoroughly uprooted, and a viable, working democracy was in place. iraq was not a threat to us and we weren't prepared to fight it. we had no long term plan for post-war iraq. we just couldn't find bin laden, bush's polls were sagging, and he needed a distraction. he figured out that being a war-time president was good for his numbers and image and afghanistan wasnt providing enough drama, so he stepped it up a notch.
Well then you are consistant.
It's real easy to 'support a war' by sitting on your ass and uttering the words, "I support The War" from the comfort of your home. It's another thing if there is a risk of that yellow envelope coming in the mail stating you have been selected to serve.
...
This is a political ploy to get the Cable Talking ShitHeads all in a tizzy so their A.D.D. afflicted audience can run around in circles, screaming like little girlie-fucks. The thing has been batted around since 2002 to illustrate the point that the rich fuckers (in Congress and in politics in General) do not have a stake at risk in this War. That if their fucking snot nose spoiled fucking spawn had to strap on the Kevlar and patrol the streets of Baghdad, maybe they wouldn't be so eager to rush into a warzone. It's GOOD to fight a war with someone else's family.
The War in Afghanistan has reason and justification... September 11, 2001 attacks, Taliban hosting terror trainning camps, housing Usama Bin Laden and al Qaeda. Iraq was and is not a justified war. Lying to us by scaring us into believing we should go to war is not justifiable.
...
All this post proves is that a lot of you haven't been paying attention to the past 4 years. Maybe it's time you get your noses out of Grand Theft Auto III and pay attention before spouting out your innane political opinions.
...
Finally... how many of you would still be supporting this war, with the same decisions and outcomes, if it was Al Gore in the Oval Office? How do you think Rush Limbaugh would feel? Would FOX News broadcasts and Op/Ed pieces be the same?
I'm going out on a limb and saying things would be different to a lot of people.
Hail, Hail!!!
How many people would sign up for the military if they are opposed to fighting in wars? How many would let their kids sign up for the military if they are opposed to fighting in wars?
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I don't understand these questions.
If you are opposed to this war... why would you even sign up?
If your kid is 18... that's his call, not yours. Unless your kid is a momma's boy.
Hail, Hail!!!
to be livin here today.
‘Cause the flag still stands for freedom,
and they can’t take that away.
And I’m proud to be an American,
where at least I know I’m free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.
you'd be 'privledged' to do something you admit you would have to be forced to do???
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I think you are slightly dillusional.
Blaming your kid as your reasoning for not getting the 'Privilege' to fight in Iraq?
As for the homecoming... we are already seeing veterans of this war being questioned about the validity of the problems they are facing when they come home. People (mostly pansey civilians that haven't got a clue about the military) question things like Post Tramatic Stress Disorder and other related physical and emotional scars left by war. To those people, their fucking tax cuts are more important than treating a 22 year old Army Specialist who is having difficulties 'fitting back in' to society. There's your 'Support The Troops'... a slogan, and nothing else.
Just be honest... you won't go, so don't say you would... if you felt that strongly, you'd be over there.
Hail, Hail!!!
You probaly feel strongly about helping the people of darfur but i dont se you over there, do i?
Just another weak attempt to force the public to be as anti war as they are. The dems nor him want a draft. They want Joe Public to not support the war. Weak.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
I would, for the right cause. It would take a whole lot more that a dictator that poses no real threat to the U.S., I can tell you that. I already served and would do it again if I felt it was necessary.
Going to Darfur to do what? Please, what does non-U.S. involvement in Darfur have to do with full U.S. military involvement in Iraq?
Hail, Hail!!!
I believe hes referring to the many who demand to know why if we (the US) care so much about the people of Iraq, why we arent involved in helping the people of Darfur.
Unless Im missing something.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
Oh... okay. I mean, I use that analogy when people use the excuse of 'Helping the poor oppressed people of Iraq find freedom' for getting our military personel caught up in that bullshit. If THOSE people (the ones using that lame excuse) felt that way... then, they should be the ones calling for U.S. military involvement in Darfur.
...
As for Darfur... I believe that it is going to take more than sending in Marines to kill 'em all. That is a political problem that requires a political solution. The fucking U.N. is supposed to be in that business... put their asses on it. All of those fucking African Nations that participate in it for some benefit or another are part of the problem. They infest the U.N. and bicker over bullshit and nothing is accomplished.
Is is a tragedy? Yes, of momumental proportions.
Is it a U.S. Problem? No... it is mainly an Africa problem.
I wouldn't mind if they (African Nations) were serious about fixing it and asked us for assistance... then, YES... that is the noble and right thing to do. But, to expect us to go in and fix their problems... NO. We are NOT the world's cops.
NOTE: You can substitute Iraq for Darfur and Middle Eastern Nations for African Nations in the above statement.
...
Miller was just upset because I haven't been commenting on his opinions, lately. Some people just need more attention than others.
Hail, Hail!!!
Well said. I agree with your last paragraph, it's not just the dems, this issue spreads across the board.
Oh yeah, fill me in.
Yet, in the name of saving our taxes for ourselves, we cut veteran's benefits and come up with lame excuses to ignore the real emotional scars that our returning war veterans face.
If everyone had a stake in this venture... then, maybe we wouldn't trapse off to war just for the heck of it.
If I were in charge of this all voluenteer military... I would take care of the War veterans and their families by paying their families their full salaries... for the National Guardsmen and Reservists that are pulled away from their civilian jobs. War wounded... I'd use the taxes to pay off their mortgages and pay for their medical requirements til the day they die. The War dead... I'd take care of their families.
Most of all... I would not send them into battle unless there was absolutely no alternative option left to exercise.
Hail, Hail!!!
fuckin dems....
for years, the left (which i am a part of) have been threatening that if we re-elect the Right, we will have adraft. it was all the buzz before the '06 elections. But the only people pushing for it are dems!!!!
Mine does, though we havent had a real war since like forever, and if you are attending school (meaning college of course) you are excused.
I dont agree with military draft in the US, I'll be an american citizen in 2008, though I've lived here 24 outta the 28 years of my life, but I think that for my 3 sons I would want them to have the choice of whether they want to go fight a war or not. Specially with all the bonehead wars the US likes to get involved in :S
Thank god (or allah, or whoever you want to thank) that congress continues to waste time on stupid stuff. I really didn;t need those tax dollars anyhow...keep spending away, raising your own pay and talking about stupid issues that have no chance to pass...great work ladies and gents.
This a "just" war, right? Don't those who support this war want to use every resource available...? As many have said, this "war on terror" can go on for many, many years, the US is going to need more boots on the ground, right....?
This is how I feel about our government.
Which is EXACTLY WHY I don't want them intruding into my personal life with their 'Homeland Security' bullshit. If they want to tap my phone or check my bank accounts... get a fucking warrant... assholes.
Hail, Hail!!!