Georgia fired first shot, say UK monitors
MrBrian
Posts: 2,672
Two former British military officers are expected to give crucial evidence against Georgia when an international inquiry is convened to establish who started the country’s bloody five-day war with Russia in August.
Ryan Grist, a former British Army captain, and Stephen Young, a former RAF wing commander, are said to have concluded that, before the Russian bombardment began, Georgian rockets and artillery were hitting civilian areas in the breakaway region of South Ossetia every 15 or 20 seconds.
Their accounts seem likely to undermine the American-backed claims of President Mikhail Saakashvili of Georgia that his little country was the innocent victim of Russian aggression and acted solely in self-defence.
On the night war broke out, Grist was the senior OSCE official in Georgia. He was in charge of unarmed monitors who became trapped by the fighting. Based on their observations, Grist briefed European Union diplomats in Tbilisi, the Georgian capital, with his assessment of the conflict.
Grist, who resigned from the OSCE shortly afterwards, has told The New York Times it was Georgia that launched the first military strikes against Tskhinvali, the South Ossetian capital.
“It was clear to me that the [Georgian] attack was completely indiscriminate and disproportionate to any, if indeed there had been any, provocation,” he said. “The attack was clearly, in my mind, an indiscriminate attack on the town, as a town.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article5114401.ece
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So where did Obama stand on the conflict again?...
Ryan Grist, a former British Army captain, and Stephen Young, a former RAF wing commander, are said to have concluded that, before the Russian bombardment began, Georgian rockets and artillery were hitting civilian areas in the breakaway region of South Ossetia every 15 or 20 seconds.
Their accounts seem likely to undermine the American-backed claims of President Mikhail Saakashvili of Georgia that his little country was the innocent victim of Russian aggression and acted solely in self-defence.
On the night war broke out, Grist was the senior OSCE official in Georgia. He was in charge of unarmed monitors who became trapped by the fighting. Based on their observations, Grist briefed European Union diplomats in Tbilisi, the Georgian capital, with his assessment of the conflict.
Grist, who resigned from the OSCE shortly afterwards, has told The New York Times it was Georgia that launched the first military strikes against Tskhinvali, the South Ossetian capital.
“It was clear to me that the [Georgian] attack was completely indiscriminate and disproportionate to any, if indeed there had been any, provocation,” he said. “The attack was clearly, in my mind, an indiscriminate attack on the town, as a town.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article5114401.ece
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So where did Obama stand on the conflict again?...
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Obama, who was speaking before nearly 84-thousand supporters in Denver Thursday, vowed to end what he called "Russian aggression".
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Or maybe Obama was just falling in line? McCain and Bush were talking tough about Russia and how innocent Gerogia was, so you know Obama didnt want to feel left out or look weak, so he followed along. Not looking at the facts, the situation.
Pray god, let the words of these two brits be enough to change the minds of all those who would not rely on any of the more eastern-european accounts.
:rolleyes:
If I opened it now would you not understand?
ah well, what can you do.
"Surrender and get some sleep." - Eugene Morris Jerome, Biloxi Blues, 1988
If I opened it now would you not understand?
President Bush was, and he said identical nonsensical statements regarding "Russia's agression." So did Cunalingus Rice.
Lets not think that either of the two candidates were any more or less owned in their responses than Presidente Boosh.
The Council on Foreign Relations position is that Russia is the new evil agressor ("an international disturber and outlaw", per the article), and all CFR candidates (sitting, or elect) will regurgitate that hooey.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Many reliable sources and reports were coming out during the time who the real aggressors were. What the real situation was.
It's just an excuse 'they were speaking hypothetically'...
It was his view, it was his thoughts on Russia and the situation, he was wrong. I'm sorry, you can not give him a pass on this.
But I'm sure he will get one. Not really shocking.
Place your bets.
Put me down for $100.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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( o.O)
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What, you mean he won't be all gushy about an enduring peace ... "not victory of might but the vindication of right — not peace at the expense of freedom, but both peace and freedom" ... like Kennedy was?
I thought Obama was the new Kennedy?
:rolleyes:
If I opened it now would you not understand?
They're working on an excuse for that one too.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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( o.O)
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The BBC has discovered evidence that Georgia may have committed war crimes in its attack on its breakaway region of South Ossetia in August. Eyewitnesses have described how its tanks fired directly into an apartment block, and how civilians were shot at as they tried to escape the fighting. Research by the international investigative organisation Human Rights Watch also points to indiscriminate use of force by the Georgian military, and the possible deliberate targeting of civilians....
http://article.wn.com/view/2008/10/28/Georgia_accused_of_Ossetia_war_crimes/
Does Obama get a pass for his support of Georgia?...
But ... but ... but ...
the NEWS told me over and over that it was the RUSSIANS that started the fighting ... all the while showing me pictures of THEIR MISSLES firing.
Are you trying to insinuate that the US MEDIA IS COMPLICIT in this?
!??!
OUR media?
!?!
:eek:
:eek:
You're starting to sound like ... gasp ... Alex Jones!
And i think he was screaming bloody murder about this!
If I opened it now would you not understand?
russians are bad evil people who must be stopped before they usurp the US as the more of an influence in areas that are of strategic or energetic importance to washington. if washington says they started it then they started it. and such russian aggression must not be tolerated. only the righteous,sometimes preemptive, aggression of the US is allowable
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Obama's got some splainin' to do, but, at least he didn't say the above.
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
Is it really going to be like that for the next four years? "At least he didn't do...."
You know,
'At least he looked the guy in the face when he put the knife in him'
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Anyway, do you believe he will now change his position on Russia or continue the 'Russian aggression' line? You think he will get critical of Georgia as much as he should in respect to this war crimes issue?
I made another thread about possible Fabricated Documents in regard to Iran, do you honestly believe that Obama will step away from his tough Talk about Iran?
I mean Obama still uses the "wipe Israel off the map" line..something we know was just American and Israeli propaganda. But he still uses it!
Does it not worry you that he uses such propaganda?
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Yes, we can!
naděje umírá poslední
for the love of God, it was half hearted joke ... relax.
And y'all call libs hypersensitive ... sheesh.
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
However, Russia did use it for all it was worth to further own interests, and indeed then some. They got their excuse complete with ribbon on top. And it can't be swept under a rug that Russia is flexing it's military muscles these days.
Problem is, the US should shut the fuck up, as they have been known to take advantage of situations like this before, and will most likely do so again. But both the US and Russia is in the wrong doing so, they don't justify eachother.
So, to sum up: Georgia started this thanks to a bonehead president, Russia is not a nice nanny in international politics, and the US should mostly shut up as they have no moral standing to open their mouths on this.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
yea, they didnt have the intellignece. ok, yet some smuck (me) with internet access knew exactly what was going on as it was happening.
lil lollipops
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63KqDC0DKFs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKYvM3WTwgE
naděje umírá poslední
Isn't he insinuating that Russia was the agressor, because they didn't ignore Georgias taunting, hence his 'Russia had had enough' comment?
Anyone?
Obama on the other hand...
"But as recently as in his Oct. 29 infomercial, Obama promised to "curb Russian aggression,"
That's pretty recent. Everyone else seems to know it was not Russia's fault. How come Obama doesn't?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/11/11/EDD4142N5B.DTL
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
This is what politicians do, sadly. It seems unavoidable in this corrupt two party system. I can only hope that Obama will act soley on the facts that are easily seen outside of the US media. This regards Iran as well. Do I think this will actually happen? No, but I'd be very happy and relieved to be proven wrong.
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