McCain voted with Bush 95% of the time..

MrBrian

catch22 wrote:

so which is it? he's a republican drone or a democratic drone?

You know what the numbers/stats show? That at the end of the day, the two parties are very similar. Not the same, but very close. Too close.

What this shows is that Obama, a man who claims to be new,fresh... is really, the same. Or excuse me, not significantly different.

digster

MrBrian wrote:

What this shows is that Obama, a man who claims to be new,fresh... is really, the same. Or excuse me, not significantly different.

To be honest, I don't think Obama was ever claiming he's voted with Republicans half the time, and he is running on the Democratic platform, not an Independent one. Is it so surprising he'd vote primarily with the Democrats? Fact is both these candidates don't have extensive records of crossing the party line, though they both say the otherwise. The problem with McCain is that he often agreed with the administration in power right now, which is a pretty big problem.

Solat13

digster wrote:

To be honest, I don't think Obama was ever claiming he's voted with Republicans half the time, and he is running on the Democratic platform, not an Independent one. Is it so surprising he'd vote primarily with the Democrats? Fact is both these candidates don't have extensive records of crossing the party line, though they both say the otherwise. The problem with McCain is that he often agreed with the administration in power right now, which is a pretty big problem.

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/15/records-show-mccain-more-bipartisan/

In fact, by several measures, Mr. McCain has been more likely to team up with Democrats than with members of his own party. Democrats made up 55 percent of his political partners over the last two Congresses, including on the tough issues of campaign finance and global warming. For Mr. Obama, Republicans were only 13 percent of his co-sponsors during his time in the Senate, and he had his biggest bipartisan successes on noncontroversial measures, such as issuing a postage stamp in honor of civil rights icon Rosa Parks.

With calls for change in Washington dominating the campaign, both Mr. Obama, the Democrats' presidential nominee, and Mr. McCain, his Republican opponent, have claimed the mantle of bipartisanship.

But since 2005, Mr. McCain has led as chief sponsor of 82 bills, on which he had 120 Democratic co-sponsors out of 220 total, for an average of 55 percent. He worked with Democrats on 50 of his bills, and of those, 37 times Democrats outnumber Republicans as co-sponsors.

Mr. Obama, meanwhile, sponsored 120 bills, of which Republicans co-sponsored just 26, and on only five bills did Republicans outnumber Democrats. Mr. Obama gained 522 total Democratic co-sponsors but only 75 Republicans, for an average of 13 percent of his co-sponsors.

MrBrian

Gonzo1977 wrote:

So fucking what?

Just go on believing your boy McCain is a Maverick.
Keep telling yourself that while he's taking your house, your job, and sending your children off to war.

You don't think Obama is ready to bomb the same places McCain wants to?
Also Obama supports Israel, a place who clearly violates international law, oppressing a people. What does Obama say about that?

Do people not care that he refuses to look at the reasons for the terrorism? Yet you believe he can deal with it? How the hell can he deal with it if he has no idea whats the cause of it?

He sides with georgia and it talking tough with Russia, yet why is he not talking about the cause of that conflict? You do know that he's just following party lines. "Bad Russia!"

You call that a leader?...

How about when he backed the patriot act? you know, the diet patriot act.

Then he chooses Biden, perhaps i'll start a thread about him another day. My point is, that is 'change' to you?

Obama supported the first gulf war, infact he said Bush sr did a great job with it. a great job with it?

Does Obama even touch the reasons for the first Gulf war?

digster

Solat13 wrote:

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/15/records-show-mccain-more-bipartisan/

.

It's an interesting article, although somewhat misleading when I go by this website...

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/is_it_true_that_even_though_john.html

McCain has a 90% agreeance rate with the Republican Party in the Senate; I believe that is less than Obama's comparative rate with the Democrats, but not by much. A great amount of McCain's bipartisan work was equally uncontroversial, as the votes in the website I supplied showed. The facts show he's not as bipartisan as he claims to be, and neither is Obama.

None of this, however, has to do with the criticism that he's agreed with Bush so often. That's what the criticism is; if Obama wanted to prove McCain's lack of bipartisanship, he could've just said that he voted with the Republicans 90% of the time. But the criticism is that he agrees with Bush, the guy with a 20 percent approval rating. I don't see how the article you cited refutes that point.

catch22

MrBrian wrote:

You know what the numbers/stats show? That at the end of the day, the two parties are very similar. Not the same, but very close. Too close.

What this shows is that Obama, a man who claims to be new,fresh... is really, the same. Or excuse me, not significantly different.

maybe what that shows is that society is like a bell curve, where most of the people want those policies where the dems and republicans agree. the parties are similar because most americans want the same things. a true democracy responds to the will of the majority, which will falls into that middle ground. there are just a few issues on the edges that divide the parties and a few differing perspectives on the best way to accomplish the same goals. there is a lot of compromise and a lot of agreement and that is a good thing.

what you seem to want is a fringe fraction of the population to impose a leftist world order onto us policy. the people have repeatedly rejected that. what matters in this election is the 40% of the votes where obama and mccain are strikingly different.

those areas of overlap are, for better or worse, the legislation that has broad bipartisan support. that's not a bad thing. i'm also willing to bet a number of them are pointless resolutions to thank grandparents for continuing to keep the 2-dollar bill in circulation or the budget bill which you have to suck up and pass to keep the government moving, even if some of it isnt so grand.

here's a visual for you:

Brian (commie canuck meddling in politics that aren't his business)

---

mainstream world

---

sarah palin

you and your ilk are the same as the psychos on the other side... no grasp of reality and no intelligible or practical plan for the world. you're high on pot and hippy love, palin's high on jesus. neither of you are worth taking into consideration when it comes to enacting real policy to keep a country functioning on a day to day basis.

jesus, i'm so sick of you whacko left-wing nutters acting like anything less than a che guevera presidency is a sign of impending nazism and corporate fascism. compromise is not a dirty word. it's an outgrowth of that TOLERANCE you like to blow so much hot air about... until someone thinks a policy different than your know-it-all proposal might be a better idea.

MrBrian

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jATQU2qh1m4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cOJNC2EuJw&NR=1

I can post the list of laws Israel has broken, or the crimes it has commited, but we all know pretty much know how big it is.

Now is Obama, really the candidate of change?

jimed14

MrBrian wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jATQU2qh1m4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cOJNC2EuJw&NR=1

I can post the list of laws Israel has broken, or the crimes it has commited, but we all know pretty much know how big it is.

Now is Obama, really the candidate of change?

well, it's change from the McCain/Palin ticket who feels we cannot second guess Israel if they decide to "defend" themselves from Iran ... um, really? We can't second guess Israel, at all???

I think I've said many times that both of the leading cnadidates suckle far too hard on the teet of AIPAC.

So, indeed, one area where Obama isn't a "change" that I'd like to see ... but, it still doesn't change my stance that he is a far better candidate than McCain.

MrBrian

I don't blame you catch22, you live in a Bizzaro world.

You see, we have come to a point where it's the norm to support Israel, it doesnt fucking matter how much crime it does, how much wrong it does. If you don't support them, you don't win the election. Not only that, but supporting the corrupt is right and standing up against injustice is left wing and crazy. But it's not, standing up against a crime is not left or right wing.

Is it really, crazy? insane? weird? to stand up and say, "that shit aint right?"
To look at an issue and break it down, point out certain things?

All i'm pointing out is Obama and his hypocrisy.

Do you all really think Obama is right in backing Israel the way he does? In a conflict that perhaps is one of the direct links to many problems we face today?

How can you respect a man who say's the Israel is only defending itself? How can you support a person who refuses to stand up against the same injustices he say's he fights against?

All options are on the table with Iran, fine. Sometimes you need to go to war. But Why is he talking about Iran? Who is iran a threat towards?

MrBrian

jimed14 wrote:

So, indeed, one area where Obama isn't a "change" that I'd like to see ... but, it still doesn't change my stance that he is a far better candidate than McCain.

Fair enough. I have said myself that Obama would make a better president. My issues is that his supporters don't demand enough from him. Giving him a free pass. Obama has a chance to be great. Maybe he just needs a push?

Now is the time to speak your mind, not after he wins.

catch22

MrBrian wrote:

I don't blame you catch22, you live in a Bizzaro world.

You see, we have come to a point where it's the norm to support Israel, it doesnt fucking matter how much crime it does, how much wrong it does. If you don't support them, you don't win the election. Not only that, but supporting the corrupt is right and standing up against injustice is left wing and crazy. But it's not, standing up against a crime is not left or right wing.

Is it really, crazy? insane? weird? to stand up and say, "that shit aint right?"
To look at an issue and break it down, point out certain things?

All i'm pointing out is Obama and his hypocrisy.

Do you all really think Obama is right in backing Israel the way he does? In a conflict that perhaps is one of the direct links to many problems we face today?

How can you respect a man who say's the Israel is only defending itself? How can you support a person who refuses to stand up against the same injustices he say's he fights against?

All options are on the table with Iran, fine. Sometimes you need to go to war. But Why is he talking about Iran? Who is iran a threat towards?

mccain is pro-life, and obama isn't.

wow, you're right. one-issue voting IS way better!