The giant atom-smasher experiment

mammasan

The LHC was fired up today but the actually mini Big band will not occur for another month. So we still have some time before the black holes start pulling us into the event horizon.

mammasan

Being sucked into a black hole sounds like a really shitty way to die after what I just read. Below is a description of the theory of Spaghettification.

"An object in any very strong gravitational field feels a tidal force stretching it in the direction of the object generating the gravitational field. This is because the inverse square law causes nearer parts of the stretched object to feel a stronger attraction than farther parts. Near black holes, the tidal force is expected to be strong enough to deform any object falling into it, even atoms or composite nucleons; this is called spaghettification. The process of spaghettification is as follows. First, the object that is falling into the black hole splits in two. Then the two pieces each split themselves, rendering a total of four pieces. Then the four pieces split to form eight. This process of bifurcation continues up to and past the point in which the split-up pieces of the original object are at the order of magnitude of the constituents of atoms. At the end of the spaghettification process, the object is a string of elementary particles."

Cosmo

mammasan wrote:

Being sucked into a black hole sounds like a really shitty way to die after what I just read. Below is a description of the theory of Spaghettification.

"An object in any very strong gravitational field feels a tidal force stretching it in the direction of the object generating the gravitational field. This is because the inverse square law causes nearer parts of the stretched object to feel a stronger attraction than farther parts. Near black holes, the tidal force is expected to be strong enough to deform any object falling into it, even atoms or composite nucleons; this is called spaghettification. The process of spaghettification is as follows. First, the object that is falling into the black hole splits in two. Then the two pieces each split themselves, rendering a total of four pieces. Then the four pieces split to form eight. This process of bifurcation continues up to and past the point in which the split-up pieces of the original object are at the order of magnitude of the constituents of atoms. At the end of the spaghettification process, the object is a string of elementary particles."

...
Not to worry... we'd all be long dead way before that as the atmosphere is sucked off the planet.

mammasan

Cosmo wrote:

...
Not to worry... we'd all be long dead way before that as the atmosphere is sucked off the planet.

Well that's better.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

well at least we wont have to deal with this election shit anymore.

Cosmo

Also...
Where does all that shit go? Where will everything on the planet... and the planet itself... go when it's sucked in?

mammasan

Cosmo wrote:

Also...
Where does all that shit go? Where will everything on the planet... and the planet itself... go when it's sucked in?

Don't know if this answers your question but it's all I could find.

Before the falling object crosses the event horizon
An object in a gravitational field experiences a slowing down of time, called gravitational time dilation, relative to observers outside the field. The outside observer will see that physical processes in the object, including clocks, appear to run slowly. As a test object approaches the event horizon, its gravitational time dilation (as measured by an observer far from the hole) would approach infinity. Its time would appear to be stopped.
From the viewpoint of a distant observer, an object falling into a black hole appears to slow down, approaching but never quite reaching the event horizon: and it appears to become redder and dimmer, because of the extreme gravitational red shift caused by the gravity of the black hole. Eventually, the falling object becomes so dim that it can no longer be seen, at a point just before it reaches the event horizon. All of this is a consequence of time dilation: the object's movement is one of the processes that appear to run slower and slower, and the time dilation effect is more significant than the acceleration due to gravity; the frequency of light from the object appears to decrease, making it look redder, because the light appears to complete fewer cycles per "tick" of the observer's clock; lower-frequency light has less energy and therefore appears dimmer, as well as redder.
From the viewpoint of the falling object, distant objects generally appear blue-shifted due to the gravitational field of the black hole. This effect may be partly (or even entirely) negated by the red shift caused by the velocity of the infalling object with respect to the object in the distance.
As the object passes through the event horizon
From the viewpoint of the falling object, nothing particularly special happens at the event horizon. In fact, there is no (local) way for him to find out whether he has passed the horizon or not. An infalling object takes a finite proper time (i.e. measured by its own clock) to fall past the event horizon. This in contrast with the infinite amount of time it takes for a distant observer to see the infalling object cross the horizon.
Inside the event horizon
The object reaches the singularity at the center within a finite amount of proper time, as measured by the falling object. An observer on the falling object would continue to see objects outside the event horizon, blue-shifted or red-shifted depending on the falling object's trajectory. Objects closer to the singularity aren't seen, as all paths light could take from objects farther in point inwards towards the singularity.
The amount of proper time a faller experiences below the event horizon depends upon where they started from rest, with the maximum being for someone who starts from rest at the event horizon. A paper in 2007 examined the effect of firing a rocket pack within the black hole, showing that this can only reduce the proper time of a person who starts from rest at the event horizon. However, for anyone else, a judicious burst of the rocket can extend the lifetime of the faller, but overdoing it will again reduce the proper time experienced. However, this cannot prevent the inevitable collision with the central singularity.[27]
Hitting the singularity
As an infalling object approaches the singularity, tidal forces acting on it approach infinity. All components of the object, including atoms and subatomic particles, are torn away from each other before striking the singularity. At the singularity itself, effects are unknown; it is believed that a theory of quantum gravity is needed to accurately describe events near it.

Cosmo

mammasan wrote:

Don't know if this answers your question but it's all I could find.

Before the falling object crosses the event horizon
An object in a gravitational field experiences a slowing down of time, called gravitational time dilation, relative to observers outside the field. The outside observer will see that physical processes in the object, including clocks, appear to run slowly. As a test object approaches the event horizon, its gravitational time dilation (as measured by an observer far from the hole) would approach infinity. Its time would appear to be stopped.
From the viewpoint of a distant observer, an object falling into a black hole appears to slow down, approaching but never quite reaching the event horizon: and it appears to become redder and dimmer, because of the extreme gravitational red shift caused by the gravity of the black hole. Eventually, the falling object becomes so dim that it can no longer be seen, at a point just before it reaches the event horizon. All of this is a consequence of time dilation: the object's movement is one of the processes that appear to run slower and slower, and the time dilation effect is more significant than the acceleration due to gravity; the frequency of light from the object appears to decrease, making it look redder, because the light appears to complete fewer cycles per "tick" of the observer's clock; lower-frequency light has less energy and therefore appears dimmer, as well as redder.
From the viewpoint of the falling object, distant objects generally appear blue-shifted due to the gravitational field of the black hole. This effect may be partly (or even entirely) negated by the red shift caused by the velocity of the infalling object with respect to the object in the distance.
As the object passes through the event horizon
From the viewpoint of the falling object, nothing particularly special happens at the event horizon. In fact, there is no (local) way for him to find out whether he has passed the horizon or not. An infalling object takes a finite proper time (i.e. measured by its own clock) to fall past the event horizon. This in contrast with the infinite amount of time it takes for a distant observer to see the infalling object cross the horizon.
Inside the event horizon
The object reaches the singularity at the center within a finite amount of proper time, as measured by the falling object. An observer on the falling object would continue to see objects outside the event horizon, blue-shifted or red-shifted depending on the falling object's trajectory. Objects closer to the singularity aren't seen, as all paths light could take from objects farther in point inwards towards the singularity.
The amount of proper time a faller experiences below the event horizon depends upon where they started from rest, with the maximum being for someone who starts from rest at the event horizon. A paper in 2007 examined the effect of firing a rocket pack within the black hole, showing that this can only reduce the proper time of a person who starts from rest at the event horizon. However, for anyone else, a judicious burst of the rocket can extend the lifetime of the faller, but overdoing it will again reduce the proper time experienced. However, this cannot prevent the inevitable collision with the central singularity.[27]
Hitting the singularity
As an infalling object approaches the singularity, tidal forces acting on it approach infinity. All components of the object, including atoms and subatomic particles, are torn away from each other before striking the singularity. At the singularity itself, effects are unknown; it is believed that a theory of quantum gravity is needed to accurately describe events near it.

...
I always pictured it as a giant compacted colon... except, really, REALLY compacted.

mammasan

Cosmo wrote:

...
I always pictured it as a giant compacted colon... except, really, REALLY compacted.

I guess it could look like that except that bowel movements would occur in slow-motion

MrBrian

LONDON (AFP) - Hackers claim they have broken into the computer system of the Large Hadron Collider, the mega-machine designed to expose secrets of the cosmos, British newspapers reported on Saturday.

A group calling itself the Greek Security Team left a rogue webpage mocking the technicians responsible for computer security at the giant atom smasher as "schoolkids", the Times and Daily Telegraph reported.


The hackers vowed they had no intention of disrupting the experiment at the European Organisation for Nuclear Research (CERN) on the Swiss-French border, they just wanted to highlight the flaws in the computer system's security.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/080913/technology/science_physics_cern_computer

Drowned Out

MrBrian wrote:

LONDON (AFP) - Hackers claim they have broken into the computer system of the Large Hadron Collider, the mega-machine designed to expose secrets of the cosmos, British newspapers reported on Saturday.

A group calling itself the Greek Security Team left a rogue webpage mocking the technicians responsible for computer security at the giant atom smasher as "schoolkids", the Times and Daily Telegraph reported.


The hackers vowed they had no intention of disrupting the experiment at the European Organisation for Nuclear Research (CERN) on the Swiss-French border, they just wanted to highlight the flaws in the computer system's security.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/080913/technology/science_physics_cern_computer

nice. can you say cyber-terrorism? The ultimate IED!

I need to read up on these experiments, cause all I can think when I read about the hoped for and possible results, is "timewave zero"......it fits.

MrBrian

Indian girl kills self over "Big Bang" fear: family

BHOPAL, India (Reuters) - A teenage girl in central India killed herself on Wednesday after being traumatized by media reports that a "Big Bang" experiment in Europe could bring about the end of the world, her father said.

The 16-year old girl from the state of Madhya Pradesh drank pesticide and was rushed to the hospital but later died, police said.


Her father, identified on local television as Biharilal, said that his daughter, Chayya, killed herself after watching doomsday predictions made on Indian news programs.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/080910/n_world_reuters/international_india_suicide_dc_1

Kann

^ I was talking about the lhc with a friend over the week end and for some people it seems the possibility of a black hole really is a panicking thought pretty hard to bear, she really had a hard time dealing with it. I'm guessing we're not over seeing these incidents in the future.
By the way, does anyone know this : in case of a black hole time will time expand infinitely while earth is being sucked in?

Puck78

Kann wrote:

By the way, does anyone know this

wait, i'll give a look and i'll let you know...

mammasan

Kann wrote:

^ I was talking about the lhc with a friend over the week end and for some people it seems the possibility of a black hole really is a panicking thought pretty hard to bear, she really had a hard time dealing with it. I'm guessing we're not over seeing these incidents in the future.
By the way, does anyone know this : in case of a black hole time will time expand infinitely while earth is being sucked in?

Yes that is true, at least in theory. Here is something I posted earlier in this thread that describes the slowing down of time.

Before the falling object crosses the event horizon
An object in a gravitational field experiences a slowing down of time, called gravitational time dilation, relative to observers outside the field. The outside observer will see that physical processes in the object, including clocks, appear to run slowly. As a test object approaches the event horizon, its gravitational time dilation (as measured by an observer far from the hole) would approach infinity. Its time would appear to be stopped.
From the viewpoint of a distant observer, an object falling into a black hole appears to slow down, approaching but never quite reaching the event horizon: and it appears to become redder and dimmer, because of the extreme gravitational red shift caused by the gravity of the black hole. Eventually, the falling object becomes so dim that it can no longer be seen, at a point just before it reaches the event horizon. All of this is a consequence of time dilation: the object's movement is one of the processes that appear to run slower and slower, and the time dilation effect is more significant than the acceleration due to gravity; the frequency of light from the object appears to decrease, making it look redder, because the light appears to complete fewer cycles per "tick" of the observer's clock; lower-frequency light has less energy and therefore appears dimmer, as well as redder.
From the viewpoint of the falling object, distant objects generally appear blue-shifted due to the gravitational field of the black hole. This effect may be partly (or even entirely) negated by the red shift caused by the velocity of the infalling object with respect to the object in the distance.
As the object passes through the event horizon
From the viewpoint of the falling object, nothing particularly special happens at the event horizon. In fact, there is no (local) way for him to find out whether he has passed the horizon or not. An infalling object takes a finite proper time (i.e. measured by its own clock) to fall past the event horizon. This in contrast with the infinite amount of time it takes for a distant observer to see the infalling object cross the horizon.
Inside the event horizon
The object reaches the singularity at the center within a finite amount of proper time, as measured by the falling object. An observer on the falling object would continue to see objects outside the event horizon, blue-shifted or red-shifted depending on the falling object's trajectory. Objects closer to the singularity aren't seen, as all paths light could take from objects farther in point inwards towards the singularity.
The amount of proper time a faller experiences below the event horizon depends upon where they started from rest, with the maximum being for someone who starts from rest at the event horizon. A paper in 2007 examined the effect of firing a rocket pack within the black hole, showing that this can only reduce the proper time of a person who starts from rest at the event horizon. However, for anyone else, a judicious burst of the rocket can extend the lifetime of the faller, but overdoing it will again reduce the proper time experienced. However, this cannot prevent the inevitable collision with the central singularity.[27]
Hitting the singularity
As an infalling object approaches the singularity, tidal forces acting on it approach infinity. All components of the object, including atoms and subatomic particles, are torn away from each other before striking the singularity. At the singularity itself, effects are unknown; it is believed that a theory of quantum gravity is needed to accurately describe events near it.

dunkman

'giant atom' is an oxymoron.

IndianSummer

Cosmo wrote:

I hope they don't create a Black Hole... that would suck.

haha

IndianSummer

BarkingDogs wrote:

it's between Obamas' ears....and it's sucking in gulible human beings at an astronomic rate!

LMFAO

IndianSummer

Pacomc79 wrote:

apparently there is a youtube rap about this?

yes there is. i in fact had stated a thread about that.

with the higgs boson playing hard to get, lots of kinds of strange things are hapenning........ songs are being sung, people are committing suicide etc.

MrBrian

GENEVA (Reuters) - A technical glitch has forced scientists to shut down the huge particle-smashing machine built to simulate the conditions of the "Big Bang" for at least two months, they said on Saturday.


The European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) said there had been a major helium leak on Friday into the tunnel housing the biggest and most complex machine ever made.


Just 10 days ago, scientists had celebrated the successful start of the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) under the Swiss-French border, hoping it would revamp modern physics and unlock secrets about the universe and its origins

The organization said strict safety regulations had ensured there was no risk to people from the malfunction.


The project has had to work hard to dismiss suggestions by some critics that the experiment could create tiny black holes of intense gravity that could suck in the whole planet.


Since the machine started up earlier this month, scientists have successfully sent particle beams around the accelerator.


The next step will be to smash the beams into each other to trigger tiny collisions at nearly the speed of light.


This will be an attempt to recreate on a miniature scale the heat and energy of the Big Bang, the explosion generally believed by cosmologists to be at the origin of our expanding universe

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/080920/n_technology_reuters/tech_science_cern_col_8