Obama's in it to fight terrorism in all forms, to all corners of the earth, and people in the US whole heartedly agree with him.
So, I guess more wars they will have.
and the chaos ensues...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
So Obama has to support more war to get elected? And what happens once he's elected and actually GOES THROUGH with this war? Are you guys going to cry that you thought he was "faking it" to get elected? :rolleyes:
People need to wake the fuck up and do something.
What do you suggest we should do? Vote Nader?
I asked the nader supporters the other day (including you, how Nader was going to make our voices for peace heard.)
Exactly, that was my point in the earlier post. People need to do something about this. They complain about the system, but by voting for someone like Obama just because they don't like McCain, or by excusing all these dirty games and corporations by saying "The system's fucked," then all they're doing is contributing to it.
Exactly, that was my point in the earlier post. People need to do something about this. They complain about the system, but by voting for someone like Obama just because they don't like McCain, or by excusing all these dirty games and corporations by saying "The system's fucked," then all they're doing is contributing to it.
I believe in 99.9% of Obama's platform as do many of his supporters. Even if I only supported 10% of his policies that would be 10% more than McCains. What does a vote for Nader accomplish? Absolutely nothing! He is not a viable candidate and he never will be. He fooled me in 2000 but he won't rope me in again. There is just too much at stake.
“Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened.”
You're asking people to lay this out for you? no wonder we are where we are.
perhaps you can tell me what's so wrong with asking that???
i'm asking it to be laid out for me because everything i read of naders is just words of how fucked up things are now and how we need to change. it doesn't tell me how he is going to do any of that though.
and what do you mean by no wonder we are where we are? care to enlighten me??
why is what i am asking any different to what the abooks and the kabongs of this board ask obama supporters as to HOW they think their candidate is going to 'fix things'.
I believe in 99.9% of Obama's platform as do many of his supporters. Even if I only supported 10% of his policies that would be 10% more than McCains. What does a vote for Nader accomplish? Absolutely nothing! He is not a viable candidate and he never will be. He fooled me in 2000 but he won't rope me in again. There is just too much at stake.
Um, I'm pretty sure that Obama and McCain have AT LEAST 10% in common, policy-wise. We're not talking night and day, here.
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
It's just discouraging to see someone who's been promising not to do things the usual Washington way his entire campaign... doing things the usual Washington way. At least McCain has the good grace not to pretend to be a breath of fresh air.
He can't, he's as old as dirt.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Actually, Nadar mentions in the Youtube clip the international consensus, which is that of the U.N Security Council who call for a two-state settlement on the June 1967 borders.
This is the internationally agreed solution to the conflict which has been continually blocked in the U.N for the past 30 years largely to the tune of 160-2 (U.S and Israel).
The only people offering nothing are the Israeli and U.S governments.
To which someone (who I think is an Obama supporter) responded with:
don't kid yourself, Ralph is offering nothing, too...
:rolleyes:
Is this how people get around what Ralph Nader is out to accomplish? His policies are great and they revolve around a DIPLOMATIC, ANTI-WAR platform. He's going to try to actually move for peace in Palestine/Israel, withdraw troops within half a year from Iraq, and I even read somewhere that he's willing to pay reparations to the Iraqi people...
I'm not saying you have to vote Nader to change this shitty system. I'm saying please vote for WHO YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE IN. Not the person who you're scared of least, who has a "chance" at winning. the only reason these people have a chance at winning is because you aren't willing to break the system and vote for who you truly believe in. And even if you think your vote won't be enough, atleast we're starting to move in a better direction by having more people change the way this country's 2 parties control everything, and worse, the way corporations control the 2 parties!
And voting is the LEAST thing you can do. There's still much, much more that needs to be done.
I'm working outside of the system. I work to inform people about the problems in US (more particularly, US foreign policy), I work with Nader's campaign to help promote him. Nader is a candidate who's only goal in mind is to bring this nation to be run by it's people, for once. All he wants is a true democracy. If the people elect him, he'll do whatever the people want. That's the whole point, and that's why he's a great candidate. Other than working to inform people and supporting Nader, I also go to protests, sign petitions, write letters to Congress, Judicial Branch, etc...
There's only so much you can do when the men in charge don't give a shit about you.
Edit: Oh, not to mention that I'm working with tons of political prisoners held by the U.S. to help stop the corrupt use of the executive and judicial system... but that's a whole other story.
perhaps you can tell me what's so wrong with asking that???
i'm asking it to be laid out for me because everything i read of naders is just words of how fucked up things are now and how we need to change. it doesn't tell me how he is going to do any of that though.
and what do you mean by no wonder we are where we are? care to enlighten me??
why is what i am asking any different to what the abooks and the kabongs of this board ask obama supporters as to HOW they think their candidate is going to 'fix things'.
Number one, what's with the ole 'bait and switch' smokescreen about Abook and Kabong??
Number two, it's obvious when people aren't looking for solutions. It's obvious when people are caught up in debate power struggles. When you want to find out what other politicians have to offer in terms of resolution, you'll find it. Until then, people can tell it over and over, and it won't be heard.
Therefore, when I see the ongoing enabling nationwide, as outlaw refers to, the ongoing power struggles, and the ongoing lack of thought processes, I see patterns being mindlessly perpetuated.
If that's good for you, have at it.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Number one, what's with the ole 'bait and switch' smokescreen about Abook and Kabong??
Number two, it's obvious when people aren't looking for solutions. It's obvious when people are caught up in debate power struggles. When you want to find out what other politicians have to offer in terms of resolution, you'll find it. Until then, people can tell it over and over, and it won't be heard.
Therefore, when I see the ongoing enabling nationwide, as outlaw refers to, the ongoing power struggles, and the ongoing lack of thought processes, I see patterns being mindlessly perpetuated.
If that's good for you, have at it.
there was no bait and switch smokescreen. i was stating FACT. they ask those questions all the time.
and i'm not looking for solutions? i wouldn't have asked the question if i wasn't. is it too hard to take people at face value around here?? always got to be looking for a sinister reasoning behind their questions??
there's no debate power struggles going on with me. i'm useless at it. and i'm the first to admit it.
that was a genuine question i asked. if i believed nader had a workable plan to change everything that he 'talks' about, i would vote for him in a heartbeat.
there was no bait and switch smokescreen. i was stating FACT. they ask those questions all the time.
So? What on earth does that have to do with me??????? Or what I said to you? Unless intended to detract from it?
and i'm not looking for solutions? i wouldn't have asked the question if i wasn't. is it too hard to take people at face value around here?? always got to be looking for a sinister reasoning behind their questions??
there's no debate power struggles going on with me. i'm useless at it. and i'm the first to admit it.
that was a genuine question i asked. if i believed nader had a workable plan to change everything that he 'talks' about, i would vote for him in a heartbeat.
This isn't about you for me. This is about people looking and waiting for solutions to be handed to them. It's not even a valid premise to me. At all.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
there was no bait and switch smokescreen. i was stating FACT. they ask those questions all the time.
and i'm not looking for solutions? i wouldn't have asked the question if i wasn't. is it too hard to take people at face value around here?? always got to be looking for a sinister reasoning behind their questions??
there's no debate power struggles going on with me. i'm useless at it. and i'm the first to admit it.
that was a genuine question i asked. if i believed nader had a workable plan to change everything that he 'talks' about, i would vote for him in a heartbeat.
I didn't ignore the question, I just didn't notice most of the posts on the 3rd page.
But I just went back and noticed that Byrnzie actually answered your question.
To which someone (who I think is an Obama supporter) responded with:
:rolleyes:
Is this how people get around what Ralph Nader is out to accomplish? His policies are great and they revolve around a DIPLOMATIC, ANTI-WAR platform. He's going to try to actually move for peace in Palestine/Israel, withdraw troops within half a year from Iraq, and I even read somewhere that he's willing to pay reparations to the Iraqi people...
I'm not saying you have to vote Nader to change this shitty system. I'm saying please vote for WHO YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE IN. Not the person who you're scared of least, who has a "chance" at winning. the only reason these people have a chance at winning is because you aren't willing to break the system and vote for who you truly believe in. And even if you think your vote won't be enough, atleast we're starting to move in a better direction by having more people change the way this country's 2 parties control everything, and worse, the way corporations control the 2 parties!
And voting is the LEAST thing you can do. There's still much, much more that needs to be done.
right now, i just feel like saying fuck it all. it's gonna make fuck all difference anyway. after angelinas post just then, i am pissed off and hurt. you people don't know me. know nothing about me, yet you think you can make judgements on someone.
i moved here from another country, left everything i knew and loved, and was familiar to me and have worked really hard to fit in. sometimes talking to people at work and out at social events, i feel like i care more about this country than some of the people who live here. their attitude is terrible. so judgemental and so negative. and yet here's me, wants to work so hard to try and make it a better place. i don't even know what i'm fighting for right now.
go figure.
yeah yeah yeah. i'm a big baby. i miss home so bad right now.
right now, i just feel like saying fuck it all. it's gonna make fuck all difference anyway. after angelinas post just then, i am pissed off and hurt. you people don't know me. know nothing about me, yet you think you can make judgements on someone.
i moved here from another country, left everything i knew and loved, and was familiar to me and have worked really hard to fit in. sometimes talking to people at work and out at social events, i feel like i care more about this country than some of the people who live here. their attitude is terrible. so judgemental and so negative. and yet here's me, wants to work so hard to try and make it a better place. i don't even know what i'm fighting for right now.
go figure.
yeah yeah yeah. i'm a big baby. i miss home so bad right now.
I apologise if I have hurt and upset you.
I've been on this board for years, and frankly have had very few moments of intolerance. I'm surely having some right at this moment, and I'm actually feeling pretty good revelling in that. As I said earlier, it's not about you. It's about me. And my own anger and frustration.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
right now, i just feel like saying fuck it all. it's gonna make fuck all difference anyway. after angelinas post just then, i am pissed off and hurt. you people don't know me. know nothing about me, yet you think you can make judgements on someone.
i moved here from another country, left everything i knew and loved, and was familiar to me and have worked really hard to fit in. sometimes talking to people at work and out at social events, i feel like i care more about this country than some of the people who live here. their attitude is terrible. so judgemental and so negative. and yet here's me, wants to work so hard to try and make it a better place. i don't even know what i'm fighting for right now.
go figure.
yeah yeah yeah. i'm a big baby. i miss home so bad right now.
I don't know how to respond to this. I don't think I judged you at all or anything in my post... In fact, I don't even really think I referred to you at all in my post. My post was generally to more poeple. You said yourself the people's attitude in this country is terrible. They simply choose to ignore everything. And I agree with that. In fact, that's been my point all along. However, your attitude that "this will make fuck all difference anyway" makes you slightly contradict yourself because you're attitude that way is just you giving up and acting hopeless. If we were all to give up, we'd be living in a dictatorship right now.
I think you need to just work and vote for what/who you believe in. Just follow whatever you truly think. If people here vote for Obama because they genuinely feel that he's the best candidate, then I'll be happy to debate his policies with them. However, if people here are voting for Obama because they're scared of McCain, then I get pissed off and I feel like I'm debating with a person who simply contributes to the system Obama claims to be against.
I've been on this board for years, and frankly have had very few moments of intolerance. I'm surely having some right at this moment, and I'm actually feeling pretty good revelling in that. As I said earlier, it's not about you. It's about me. And my own anger and frustration.
I've been on this board for years, and frankly have had very few moments of intolerance. I'm surely having some right at this moment, and I'm actually feeling pretty good revelling in that. As I said earlier, it's not about you. It's about me. And my own anger and frustration.
it's ok angelina, i usually enjoy your posts. i think we all have those moments.
take care.
Thanks. I probably need to have them some more....I've actually gotten a lot "worse" as I've gotten healthier...with the much-appreciated help of this board.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I don't know how to respond to this. I don't think I judged you at all or anything in my post... In fact, I don't even really think I referred to you at all in my post. My post was generally to more poeple. You said yourself the people's attitude in this country is terrible. They simply choose to ignore everything. And I agree with that. In fact, that's been my point all along. However, your attitude that "this will make fuck all difference anyway" makes you slightly contradict yourself because you're attitude that way is just you giving up and acting hopeless. If we were all to give up, we'd be living in a dictatorship right now.
I think you need to just work and vote for what/who you believe in. Just follow whatever you truly think. If people here vote for Obama because they genuinely feel that he's the best candidate, then I'll be happy to debate his policies with them. However, if people here are voting for Obama because they're scared of McCain, then I get pissed off and I feel like I'm debating with a person who simply contributes to the system Obama claims to be against.
I'm just being a baby , i wasn't born here, but i love this country and the people here and i'll do what i can to do my bit to try to make it a better place for us all.
Extra, extra, read all about it!
News flash, read all about it!
Here comes another scam and don't you doubt it
May make you laugh, but it ain't funny
I can't believe the things they do for money
Another show that needs to get rated
Just got to add a little more hatred
We interrupt this program to tell you
Disco's out, murder's in
Kill it!
Goody, goody, another commotion
One more time, in slow motion
The mountain won't come to Mohammed
Let's keep our fingers crossed and maybe he'll bomb it
La da de da da de de da da
All kind of la de f**kin' das
Disco's out, murder's in
If you wanna go far, we'll make you a star
Not looking for a filler, just a serial killer!
It's got to be violent to make it a highlight
If we show it enough well everyone will think it's alright
Disco's out, murder's in
Kill it! Kill it!
Disco's out, murder's in!
Kill it!
I forgot to mention this was some funny shit...and the timing was perfect. hehe
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Comments
Obama's in it to fight terrorism in all forms, to all corners of the earth, and people in the US whole heartedly agree with him.
So, I guess more wars they will have.
and the chaos ensues...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I asked the nader supporters the other day (including you, how Nader was going to make our voices for peace heard.)
http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5673890&postcount=36
Still waiting for my answer. Show me his plans. How does he propose to do this again?
Urban told me to 'ask Nader'.
Can you do better than that?
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
so what are you doing to fix this problem?
I believe in 99.9% of Obama's platform as do many of his supporters. Even if I only supported 10% of his policies that would be 10% more than McCains. What does a vote for Nader accomplish? Absolutely nothing! He is not a viable candidate and he never will be. He fooled me in 2000 but he won't rope me in again. There is just too much at stake.
i'm asking it to be laid out for me because everything i read of naders is just words of how fucked up things are now and how we need to change. it doesn't tell me how he is going to do any of that though.
and what do you mean by no wonder we are where we are? care to enlighten me??
why is what i am asking any different to what the abooks and the kabongs of this board ask obama supporters as to HOW they think their candidate is going to 'fix things'.
Um, I'm pretty sure that Obama and McCain have AT LEAST 10% in common, policy-wise. We're not talking night and day, here.
He can't, he's as old as dirt.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
But I just went back and noticed that Byrnzie actually answered your question.
To which someone (who I think is an Obama supporter) responded with:
:rolleyes:
Is this how people get around what Ralph Nader is out to accomplish? His policies are great and they revolve around a DIPLOMATIC, ANTI-WAR platform. He's going to try to actually move for peace in Palestine/Israel, withdraw troops within half a year from Iraq, and I even read somewhere that he's willing to pay reparations to the Iraqi people...
I'm not saying you have to vote Nader to change this shitty system. I'm saying please vote for WHO YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE IN. Not the person who you're scared of least, who has a "chance" at winning. the only reason these people have a chance at winning is because you aren't willing to break the system and vote for who you truly believe in. And even if you think your vote won't be enough, atleast we're starting to move in a better direction by having more people change the way this country's 2 parties control everything, and worse, the way corporations control the 2 parties!
And voting is the LEAST thing you can do. There's still much, much more that needs to be done.
There's only so much you can do when the men in charge don't give a shit about you.
Edit: Oh, not to mention that I'm working with tons of political prisoners held by the U.S. to help stop the corrupt use of the executive and judicial system... but that's a whole other story.
Number two, it's obvious when people aren't looking for solutions. It's obvious when people are caught up in debate power struggles. When you want to find out what other politicians have to offer in terms of resolution, you'll find it. Until then, people can tell it over and over, and it won't be heard.
Therefore, when I see the ongoing enabling nationwide, as outlaw refers to, the ongoing power struggles, and the ongoing lack of thought processes, I see patterns being mindlessly perpetuated.
If that's good for you, have at it.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
and i'm not looking for solutions? i wouldn't have asked the question if i wasn't. is it too hard to take people at face value around here?? always got to be looking for a sinister reasoning behind their questions??
there's no debate power struggles going on with me. i'm useless at it. and i'm the first to admit it.
that was a genuine question i asked. if i believed nader had a workable plan to change everything that he 'talks' about, i would vote for him in a heartbeat.
how about we?
Mihi cura futuri.
The elements they speak to me.
http://espn.go.com/espnradiostations/NewYork1050/gallery/35218855.html
so cute they are
This isn't about you for me. This is about people looking and waiting for solutions to be handed to them. It's not even a valid premise to me. At all.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
People.
just saying.
Edit: I see you replied
i moved here from another country, left everything i knew and loved, and was familiar to me and have worked really hard to fit in. sometimes talking to people at work and out at social events, i feel like i care more about this country than some of the people who live here. their attitude is terrible. so judgemental and so negative. and yet here's me, wants to work so hard to try and make it a better place. i don't even know what i'm fighting for right now.
go figure.
yeah yeah yeah. i'm a big baby. i miss home so bad right now.
I've been on this board for years, and frankly have had very few moments of intolerance. I'm surely having some right at this moment, and I'm actually feeling pretty good revelling in that. As I said earlier, it's not about you. It's about me. And my own anger and frustration.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I think you need to just work and vote for what/who you believe in. Just follow whatever you truly think. If people here vote for Obama because they genuinely feel that he's the best candidate, then I'll be happy to debate his policies with them. However, if people here are voting for Obama because they're scared of McCain, then I get pissed off and I feel like I'm debating with a person who simply contributes to the system Obama claims to be against.
take care.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
(and it's angeliCa!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I forgot to mention this was some funny shit...and the timing was perfect. hehe
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
oh wait.......
still much to learn have i...
As do we all........;)
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!