Learning From Mistakes

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  • DinghyDog
    DinghyDog Posts: 587
    edited November 2012
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    Post edited by DinghyDog on
  • Last Exodus
    Last Exodus Posts: 782
    DinghyDog wrote:
    i am a south african living overseas now. i can tell you honestly for each and every sentence you wrote we can argue for days about it. i am not clear with some of the things you're trying to say, but...

    suffice to say that israel didnt need south africa or vice versa to survive. they both existed in parallel and had a symbiosis so to speak.

    take the angolan war for example. ideologically it was a war between america and communist russia. fought for the russian camp by cubans, angolese on the one hand and for american interests by south africans and namibians on the other.

    its true that south africa and israel collaborated a lot with developing weapons, one of which was the kfir and cheetah warplanes which are very similar, both based on french mirage technology. i have personally spoken to people who developed missiles in collaboration with israeli's, in israel. all of this brokered in some sense for american interests.

    and i can guarantee you that america was a very good friend of the apartheid government, esp in the first 75% of the time. mainly due to gold, diamonds, and other riches, and the fact that although apartheid was legislated, south africa was a bastion of capitalism on the african continent and therefore in line with american business practices.

    i highly doubt that south africa ever wanted the whole of africa to be under apartheid. seriously. if there ever was a whole-of-continent plan for africa it was the british idea under cecil rhodes that wanted the whole place colonialised.

    apartheid was an evil and horrible system. although at the same time, a lot of the characteristics of it was going on in a number of countries, including america and australia. in no way do i support apartheid, it makes me sick in the guts to see my homeland still horribly affected by it 13 years after getting rid of it. it gets me agitated when south africans get generalised about their past, when equal or greater wrongdoings were suffered by native americans or aboriginal australians. can anyone here say "reserve" or "mission" or "stolen generation". south africa's problem was that it was institutionalised.

    the reason why apartheid was abolished in the 80s is not due to a lack of funds, but due to sanctions. even so i would say that the sanctions only played a part in the demise of it; south africans of all races knew it wasnt right and it was time to change. It was the government enforcing it wihtout majority approval of its citizens and that was why the sanctions were needed to broke its back. i take the fact that there was no civil war at the change over as proof that people actually wanted a change for the better.

    i don't think that what israel is doing is apartheid. it reeks more of concentration camps than anything. personally i don't think the middle east problem will be solved for a thousand years hence. it's been going for at least 3000 years. i don't want to be defeatist but i'm tending to think "its just one of those things" like death and taxes. until israelis and palestinians and everyone in the world just gets over themselves, the problem will be there.

    and regarding your comment about vorster being a nazi sympathiser, yes it is true that he probably did sympathise; but, it was more likely as a result of hate for the british due to the suffering they brought upon the boer people than actually being a fair dinkum nazi. a lot of boers at the time of WW II still vehemently hated the british due to what they did to them in the boer war of 1899-1902. and guess whose side the americans were on in that one? the boers'. (although they didn't fight).

    i love south africa, it is my home country, and feel good about its future, although i had to make my home somewhere else.


    For the insight on your country. Sadly the thread was not meant to bring any kind of focus on your country, but to backhandedly insult another. While the intent of the thread was malicious at least I learned something from you.

    Cheers
  • MrBrian
    MrBrian Posts: 2,672
    really? because my intention was to be pretty direct with my attack on Israel.
    nevertheless, as always you don't have anything to add so you just pop in to cause some sorta problem. But that's fine.
  • Last Exodus
    Last Exodus Posts: 782
    DinghyDog wrote:
    tha's what i was getting at. jews in germany (of all places) today don't live in fear of being blown up by a suicide bomber when they go to a cafe, unlike in israel.

    it was just a thought that crossed my mind, don't want to offend anyone. i might be totally wrong.
    um there are no more jews in germany dude.
  • Last Exodus
    Last Exodus Posts: 782
    MrBrian wrote:
    really? because my intention was to be pretty direct with my attack on Israel.
    nevertheless, as always you don't have anything to add so you just pop in to cause some sorta problem. But that's fine.
    well if you hate them so much why dont you do a martydom video and post it online.
  • sponger
    sponger Posts: 3,159
    MrBrian wrote:
    really? because my intention was to be pretty direct with my attack on Israel.
    nevertheless, as always you don't have anything to add so you just pop in to cause some sorta problem. But that's fine.

    I'm getting the same impression about that dude.
    reigning champion

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
  • Last Exodus
    Last Exodus Posts: 782
    Last Exodus wrote:
    well if you hate them so much why dont you do a martydom video and post it online.
    And im sorry to disrupt your constant diatribe of hate...ill try not to interfere with it anymore...
  • MrBrian
    MrBrian Posts: 2,672
    Last Exodus wrote:
    well if you hate them so much why dont you do a martydom video and post it online.

    I think you already made a similar comment to another user, please, insult me with something original.
    ---

    But again, find problems with my post, tell me that the relationship with the two are false, the oppression of palestinians is not real or that Israel was never caught spying on the US (something that I'll bring up in another thread)

    It's about seeing something that's wrong and not supporting it. yes, israel is wrong in a huge amount of it's actions, it has a dirty and digusting history. don't debate your ill feeling towards me, i'm not interested in a personal battle with you.
  • Last Exodus
    Last Exodus Posts: 782
    MrBrian wrote:
    I think you already made a similar comment to another user, please, insult me with something original.
    ---

    But again, find problems with my post, tell me that the relationship with the two are false, the oppression of palestinians is not real or that Israel was never caught spying on the US (something that I'll bring up in another thread)

    It's about seeing something that's wrong and not supporting it. yes, israel is wrong in a huge amount of it's actions, it has a dirty and digusting history. don't debate your ill feeling towards me, i'm not interested in a personal battle with you.
    ill work on it
  • Last Exodus
    Last Exodus Posts: 782
    go for it B! youd get alot of virgin ass

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5d5ba0d5a0
  • MrBrian
    MrBrian Posts: 2,672
    Last Exodus wrote:
    go for it B! youd get alot of virgin ass

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5d5ba0d5a0

    right, now what does that have to do with israel selling weapons to apartheid south africa? let's stick to the topic my friend.
  • Last Exodus
    Last Exodus Posts: 782
    MrBrian wrote:
    right, now what does that have to do with israel selling weapons to apartheid south africa? let's stick to the topic my friend.
    i dont care about yout topic
  • sponger
    sponger Posts: 3,159
    Last Exodus wrote:
    i dont care about yout topic

    So when were you banned? Also, does a person need to change his IP address after being banned or just his/her e-mail address?
    reigning champion

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
  • DinghyDog
    DinghyDog Posts: 587
    edited November 2012
    -
    Post edited by DinghyDog on
  • Last Exodus
    Last Exodus Posts: 782
    sponger wrote:
    So when were you banned? Also, does a person need to change his IP address after being banned or just his/her e-mail address?
    You just write out your check for $23,033.3333 to Eddie Vedder personally.

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