Well I had hope that the investigation would give me those answers.
so when an officer asks you to move your car for no reason, just to show off his power, you do it? well, I did. he asked me for my reg and licence, I asked what for, I mean it was not a traffic stop. But I did anyway and in the process having them crowd me like i'm a criminal, and this "unless you have something to hide" is a fairly pathetic stance, we have laws, we have rights, it's not what i'm trying to hide, it's what i'm trying to protect.
a police officer asking you for your license and registration is pretty standard...it's not a big deal...acting like it is is ridiculous. having to show proof that you are a licensed driver and driving a car registered to you or someone you know (and is not stolen) is not something you need to be protected against.
you talk about how the officers were physical with you...how were they physical with you? were you thrown on the hood of a car? were you handcuffed? were you tossed into the back of the car?
i hope you ever get your house robbed...you know...because police officers come in quite handy in that situation.
yes, they were probably rogue officers that bring dishonor to the badge...but, officers deal with punk kids all the time that think they know their rights...well, like i said before, if a cop asks you to do something, do it. don't start whining about your rights on the scene. if you think you are being harassed you take it up in court. why? the only thing whining on the scene will do is get more shit heaped on you.
for the people that think i want a police state...or that think they know me...give it a rest. you have no clue. just like 99% of the people here have no idea what police officers go through everyday.
when you've been thrown in a car and arrested and tossed around a jail house then you can talk to me about harassment. but, when you act like a punk whining about your rights because you were asked for your license and registration, i have no sympathy for you.
When my cat died, I did'nt go pushing people around. we all have bad days, we all have problems.
But fine, maybe I looked suspicious, but after everything checked out and they saw I was clean and had done nothing wrong, it's not liked they left me alone.
I'm sure you weren't doing anything out of the ordinary that day. The cop sounded like he was an ass. But when others say his death is karma for treating you poorly, which he shouldn't have done, its pathetic on their part.
people that whine about their rights around cops fit into a profile...that's just the way the world is...
if you did nothing wrong, then prove your licensed and registered and you will be on your way.
But I did, I was still not just let on my way, what part are you having trouble with?
I mentioned my rights mainly thinking that they would understand that they would not be able to get away with any abuse. I said it also to thinking it would prevent them from carrying on with the aggression, same reason why I mentioned the video.
At one point he had his foot hard againt mine. He took his finger and pinned it in my arm. then he said "we can touch you in many ways" they proceeded (both of them) to push my chest and arm.
---
But I did, I was still not just let on my way, what part are you having trouble with?
I mentioned my rights mainly thinking that they would understand that they would not be able to get away with any abuse. I said it also to thinking it would prevent them from carrying on with the aggression, same reason why I mentioned the video.
At one point he had his foot hard againt mine. He took his finger and pinned it in my arm. then he said "we can touch you in many ways" they proceeded (both of them) to push my chest and arm.
---
so, you went into it thinking that they were going to abuse your rights somehow...why would you say that? what does it do? if they touched you in an aggressive manner, then that was wrong...but, what is so hard about proving you are licensed and registered?
in English with heavy German accent "PAPERS PLEASE!!!!"
this is America not Nazi Germany,we don't need these gestapo thugs fucking with us when we are being peaceful
"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot". Mark Twain
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
I just had the impression you thought MrBrian did something wrong, which I think is weird.
no, i don't think he did anything wrong. since he didn't, and had nothing to hide, i don't think it's a problem to show that you are licensed and registered.
if the cops put their hands on him, that's something different. i wasn't there. i am just going by what i've read here.
my point is this...if you're asked for your license and registration and then start saying that you know your rights...there becomes a perception that you have something to hide...
i still want to know what is so hard about proving you are licensed and registered...
in English with heavy German accent "PAPERS PLEASE!!!!"
this is America not Nazi Germany,we don't need these gestapo thugs fucking with us when we are being peaceful
well, there is still a thing in this country called a minicipal code/state code, etc. it requires drivers to be licensed and registered...the request had nothing to do with proving nationality
okay, yes, what they did was wrong. it's a lot more clear now. but, i think it could have been handled a little better on your end. no biggie...sorry if anyone thought i was championing a police state...or a neo-con...anyway...
But I did, I was still not just let on my way, what part are you having trouble with?
I mentioned my rights mainly thinking that they would understand that they would not be able to get away with any abuse. I said it also to thinking it would prevent them from carrying on with the aggression, same reason why I mentioned the video.
At one point he had his foot hard againt mine. He took his finger and pinned it in my arm. then he said "we can touch you in many ways" they proceeded (both of them) to push my chest and arm.
---
okay, yes, what they did was wrong. it's a lot more clear now. but, i think it could have been handled a little better on your end. no biggie...sorry if anyone thought i was championing a police state...or a neo-con...anyway...
sorry that shit happened.
I don't think I handled the situation badly at all, but I coud've handled it even better. But that's just me being critical of myself, something I often do.
One of the first things I did that night was go straight to the books and start reading up on the laws again. Perhaps I should've started recording and let them take me to jail. Then I can get them later in court. But what is done is done.
I don't think I handled the situation badly at all, but I coud've handled it even better. But that's just me being critical of myself, something I often do.
One of the first things I did that night was go straight to the books and start reading up on the laws again. Perhaps I should've started recording and let them take me to jail. Then I can get them later in court. But what is done is done.
when you read through the books...what did you find?
That is totally bogus. That is definitely not right on any level. I have been through a couple of situations similar to this. A lot of police do use their power for intitimidation.
One example of how they use their power wrongfully is when you will be at a stop light and an officer will come up next to you or across from you in the oncoming lane and turn on their lights so they can go through the red light and immediately turn them off once through the intesection, all because they have a badge and can't wait a minute for the light to change..in on instance it was less than 30 seconds.
Alpine Valley 06-13-99 [EV-Solo]
Alpine Valley 10-8-00 (The Icebowl)
Chicago 05-16-06, 05-17-06
Lollapalooza 08-05-07
Chicago 08-22-08 [EV Solo]
Chicago 08-23-09, 08-24-09
Chicago 06-28-11, 06-29-11 [EV Solo]
PJ20 Alpine Valley 09-03-11, 09-04-11
Wrigley Field 07-19-13
Wrigley Field 08-20-16, 08-22-16
i dont think its an issue of trust. but if it was, its hard for us to trust police officers if theyre not following regulations.
cops should do what theyre supposed to do. they shouldnt harass people when theres no probable cause.
it is exactly an issue of trust...police officers don't know if someone is going to shoot them during a traffic stop or not...to say it's not an issue of trust is just not on-point...cops do what they're supposed to do...on that particular day, one person was harassed by two cops...so, like anyone ignorant of the profession would do, you assume that all cops are bad...and that all cops are harassing people and not doing their job...good on you...congratulations.
it is exactly an issue of trust...police officers don't know if someone is going to shoot them during a traffic stop or not...to say it's not an issue of trust is just not on-point...cops do what they're supposed to do...on that particular day, one person was harassed by two cops...so, like anyone ignorant of the profession would do, you assume that all cops are bad...and that all cops are harassing people and not doing their job...good on you...congratulations.
I think the point is, though, that we shouldn't automatically trust cops, either. These guys were clearly violating MrBrian's rights.
If a cop asks permission to look in your vehicle, if they don't have a warrant the answer is "no". If they have probable cause, they can do so anyway. If they have what they need to get a warrant, let them get a warrant and do so. But giving them permissions opens the door to whatever they happen upon. Same goes for your home. Never invite a cop inside. They will come in if they have probable cause or a warrant. Otherwise, they should enjoy their stay on your front porch. Giving them permissions allows them to cast a wide net. Making them obtain a warrant requires them to be specific about what they're looking for and where.
I was confronted by a couple of officers, they started to get extremely aggressive (physical contact) . at one point I told them (so they would stop) that I had a cell phone that records video and that I was going to start recording things.
They informed me that if I did that, I would be arrested because "it is against the law to record someone without them knowing". This is what they tell me.
Now I was not fully aware of that, but I figure anyway that even if that is true, I don't think it would be a problem as long as It was of someone breaking the law or doing some sort of injustice, recording would be just fine, I mean imagine, my righst or someone elses are being violated and then I get thrown in jail for wanting to record it for proof. nevertheless I did'nt make the move for my phone.
I even got the cuffs waved in my face. I told them repeatedly "I know my rights". They then demanded to see my license and reg, (this was not a traffic stop) I asked them what for, they demanded again and threatened me again with arrest.
Now this all happened in a parking lot, right as I got out of my car to head into the mall. I had done nothing wrong, they just decided to go after me, no emergencies in the area or anything, it was perhaps just a case of profiling, angry cops, I don't know for sure, what I do know is that none of this was warranted. (I did some research after and nothing was going on in the area, no robbers running around or whatever else, these officers were just hanging around)
I gave them my license and one of the officers starts to check my record out? He jumps out of his car and yells "You are not even an American! what rights do you think you have?" I guess when he pulled my file it shows "non citezen" (I'm canadian but live in the US due to work)
How can they speak to people like this? how can they say these things?
anyway, They knew that I did'nt do anything wrong so they had nothing to ticket me for, then they started searching for things, looking into my car and such.
Now after they find nothing on me he even demands that I move my car to another space! No reason given expect "because I said so!" ....I mean if it was for an emergency I would've gladly moved it, but it was all abuse of power on their part. They just wanted to show that they had power over me....
But fine,I moved my car to another spot (next parking space was about 500 meters from the malls entrance), the only reason I moved was because I wanted to fight this injustice off the streets, in a court room, via the rules.
I asked for badge numbers, they laughed and said "we don't even have any"
Fine, they had name tags so I took one of the officers names down. I asked for supervisor contact info, they refused.
It pretty much ended at that point,I went on my way and later found a professional standards line for situations like this, the office was closed so I waited until the weekday to file my greivence. I was infact not even going to follow this up but it bothered me so much when I thought about what they did and how many other people they may of done it to, people are scared to complain and fight for was is right, I just had to take the issue up.
Now I've been in hard situations with officers a couple times before (anti war rally and once during a traffic violation when I asked to see the radar gun), after each time i'm always learning more about my rights,laws and procedure. But none of that matters, I have rights, but when the injustice is happening, the only one with the rights is the person with the gun.
anyway, some extra details about what happened, after I found another space and got into the mall a guy about my age (in his 20's) came up to me and said "I saw what happened, if you need me, i'm a witness, they can't get away with this" we exchanged contact info.
Now a week or so goes by, I get around to making my complaint. a couple weeks later I get a call from a supervisor and he opens up an investigation.
He contacts my witness, the witness tells the supervisor how physical the two officers got with me, this guy (my witness) was angry himself about what he saw. he demanded justice.
Now this happened just over a month ago, the investigation into regarding the officer started about two weeks ago. I did'nt post what happened on the forums because I was waiting for this situation to resolve. well now it has.
about a week ago the one officer in question (of abuse and violating rules) was killed after driving his motorcycle into the back of a construction truck on the highway. On his own personal bike, no helmet and apparently traveling at unsafe speeds for where he was. just right into the back of A truck.
I heard the story on the news, it was all over the news.
Today I got a call from the division saying that the investgation can obvioulsy not go on and the case is closed.
--
Frankly I am more shocked that this poster was more concerned with getting a little roughed up than by the fact that a man is dead. You couldn't have been hurt too terribly by this horrible police man otherwise you'd either be dead yourself or filing a law suit. So I imagine you are just over blowing this to get attention. From the number of threads you start here, you seem to crave attention.
Having worked on both sides of law enforcement I am pretty familiar with police tactics. The reality is, cops don't randomly confront people for absolutely no reason. You had to have done something. Im not buyin it. And frankly if you would have stuck a camera in my face, id have probably shoved it up your ass.
Clearly you just have a problem with authority. That would explain your incident and constant clamoring for attention on this board. Save us, get a shrink.
Clearly you just have a problem with authority. That would explain your incident and constant clamoring for attention on this board. Save us, get a shrink.
It's fairly obvious what you are doing, since you joined this board (under your new username?) you've gone after my posts, threads. Now this is fine, you see, like in jail for example...when the new guy (you)first arrives, he looks for the biggest guy in the prison then quickly attacks him, he does this because he hopes everyone else in the jail will see this then turn and respect him for it.
Now I say all that only half jokingly. I mean if you want attention, you are better off going after people who post more than I do. Or maybe it was something you read that I said a long time ago that has made you so angry?
This must be why half of your posts are directed towards me?
You have dug up older threads by me, quoted me, already called me a yankee basher and an israeli basher (btw were those insults?)
You say i'm looking for attention? sure my friend, I think you need to look into a mirror. I have no doubt that anyone who checks out the way you have posted will see the true picture.
I'm not at all angry at you, infact I'm quite flattered by all of this. So please, continue. continue finding older threads by me and bumping them to the first page. If you feel that people will like you for it, if that's what you are looking for, really, feel free.
But I rather not reply to anymore of your posts because it seems to be a waste of time. Well on the forums that is, if you want to talk otherwise my PM box is always open.
It's fairly obvious what you are doing, since you joined this board (under your new username?) you've gone after my posts, threads. Now this is fine, you see, like in jail for example...when the new guy (you)first arrives, he looks for the biggest guy in the prison then quickly attacks him, he does this because he hopes everyone else in the jail will see this then turn and respect him for it.
Now I say all that only half jokingly. I mean if you want attention, you are better off going after people who post more than I do. Or maybe it was something you read that I said a long time ago that has made you so angry?
This must be why half of your posts are directed towards me?
You have dug up older threads by me, quoted me, already called me a yankee basher and an israeli basher (btw were those insults?)
You say i'm looking for attention? sure my friend, I think you need to look into a mirror. I have no doubt that anyone who checks out the way you have posted will see the true picture.
I'm not at all angry at you, infact I'm quite flattered by all of this. So please, continue. continue finding older threads by me and bumping them to the first page. If you feel that people will like you for it, if that's what you are looking for, really, feel free.
But I rather not reply to anymore of your posts because it seems to be a waste of time. Well on the forums that is, if you want to talk otherwise my PM box is always open.
Later,
Brian.
Big guys dont file reports and rat people out. only pussies do that. dont flatter yourself. your a troll. nothing more.
Comments
a police officer asking you for your license and registration is pretty standard...it's not a big deal...acting like it is is ridiculous. having to show proof that you are a licensed driver and driving a car registered to you or someone you know (and is not stolen) is not something you need to be protected against.
you talk about how the officers were physical with you...how were they physical with you? were you thrown on the hood of a car? were you handcuffed? were you tossed into the back of the car?
i hope you ever get your house robbed...you know...because police officers come in quite handy in that situation.
yes, they were probably rogue officers that bring dishonor to the badge...but, officers deal with punk kids all the time that think they know their rights...well, like i said before, if a cop asks you to do something, do it. don't start whining about your rights on the scene. if you think you are being harassed you take it up in court. why? the only thing whining on the scene will do is get more shit heaped on you.
for the people that think i want a police state...or that think they know me...give it a rest. you have no clue. just like 99% of the people here have no idea what police officers go through everyday.
when you've been thrown in a car and arrested and tossed around a jail house then you can talk to me about harassment. but, when you act like a punk whining about your rights because you were asked for your license and registration, i have no sympathy for you.
from my window to yours
I'm sure you weren't doing anything out of the ordinary that day. The cop sounded like he was an ass. But when others say his death is karma for treating you poorly, which he shouldn't have done, its pathetic on their part.
people that whine about their rights around cops fit into a profile...that's just the way the world is...
if you did nothing wrong, then prove your licensed and registered and you will be on your way.
from my window to yours
Did you even read the story?
naděje umírá poslední
But I did, I was still not just let on my way, what part are you having trouble with?
I mentioned my rights mainly thinking that they would understand that they would not be able to get away with any abuse. I said it also to thinking it would prevent them from carrying on with the aggression, same reason why I mentioned the video.
At one point he had his foot hard againt mine. He took his finger and pinned it in my arm. then he said "we can touch you in many ways" they proceeded (both of them) to push my chest and arm.
---
i like how you assume i didn't read the original post...i did...THAT'S HOW YOU FORM A CONCLUSION!
from my window to yours
so, you went into it thinking that they were going to abuse your rights somehow...why would you say that? what does it do? if they touched you in an aggressive manner, then that was wrong...but, what is so hard about proving you are licensed and registered?
from my window to yours
Super. I know you read it.
I just had the impression you thought MrBrian did something wrong, which I think is weird.
naděje umírá poslední
this is America not Nazi Germany,we don't need these gestapo thugs fucking with us when we are being peaceful
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
no, i don't think he did anything wrong. since he didn't, and had nothing to hide, i don't think it's a problem to show that you are licensed and registered.
if the cops put their hands on him, that's something different. i wasn't there. i am just going by what i've read here.
my point is this...if you're asked for your license and registration and then start saying that you know your rights...there becomes a perception that you have something to hide...
i still want to know what is so hard about proving you are licensed and registered...
from my window to yours
well, there is still a thing in this country called a minicipal code/state code, etc. it requires drivers to be licensed and registered...the request had nothing to do with proving nationality
from my window to yours
she moves in mysterious ways.
sorry that shit happened.
from my window to yours
I don't think I handled the situation badly at all, but I coud've handled it even better. But that's just me being critical of myself, something I often do.
One of the first things I did that night was go straight to the books and start reading up on the laws again. Perhaps I should've started recording and let them take me to jail. Then I can get them later in court. But what is done is done.
when you read through the books...what did you find?
from my window to yours
you're probably right...it's hard for police officers to know who they can trust...
from my window to yours
Mainly about things already stated in this thread, search warrants,recording,providing superior contact info, cause, things like that.
Also about other incidents officers have had with people and the results from them.
One example of how they use their power wrongfully is when you will be at a stop light and an officer will come up next to you or across from you in the oncoming lane and turn on their lights so they can go through the red light and immediately turn them off once through the intesection, all because they have a badge and can't wait a minute for the light to change..in on instance it was less than 30 seconds.
Alpine Valley 10-8-00 (The Icebowl)
Chicago 05-16-06, 05-17-06
Lollapalooza 08-05-07
Chicago 08-22-08 [EV Solo]
Chicago 08-23-09, 08-24-09
Chicago 06-28-11, 06-29-11 [EV Solo]
PJ20 Alpine Valley 09-03-11, 09-04-11
Wrigley Field 07-19-13
Wrigley Field 08-20-16, 08-22-16
Hail, Hail!!!
it is exactly an issue of trust...police officers don't know if someone is going to shoot them during a traffic stop or not...to say it's not an issue of trust is just not on-point...cops do what they're supposed to do...on that particular day, one person was harassed by two cops...so, like anyone ignorant of the profession would do, you assume that all cops are bad...and that all cops are harassing people and not doing their job...good on you...congratulations.
from my window to yours
I think the point is, though, that we shouldn't automatically trust cops, either. These guys were clearly violating MrBrian's rights.
If a cop asks permission to look in your vehicle, if they don't have a warrant the answer is "no". If they have probable cause, they can do so anyway. If they have what they need to get a warrant, let them get a warrant and do so. But giving them permissions opens the door to whatever they happen upon. Same goes for your home. Never invite a cop inside. They will come in if they have probable cause or a warrant. Otherwise, they should enjoy their stay on your front porch. Giving them permissions allows them to cast a wide net. Making them obtain a warrant requires them to be specific about what they're looking for and where.
Here's a handy guide put out by the ACLU: http://www.aclu.org/police/gen/14528res20040730.html
Having worked on both sides of law enforcement I am pretty familiar with police tactics. The reality is, cops don't randomly confront people for absolutely no reason. You had to have done something. Im not buyin it. And frankly if you would have stuck a camera in my face, id have probably shoved it up your ass.
Clearly you just have a problem with authority. That would explain your incident and constant clamoring for attention on this board. Save us, get a shrink.
It's fairly obvious what you are doing, since you joined this board (under your new username?) you've gone after my posts, threads. Now this is fine, you see, like in jail for example...when the new guy (you)first arrives, he looks for the biggest guy in the prison then quickly attacks him, he does this because he hopes everyone else in the jail will see this then turn and respect him for it.
Now I say all that only half jokingly. I mean if you want attention, you are better off going after people who post more than I do. Or maybe it was something you read that I said a long time ago that has made you so angry?
This must be why half of your posts are directed towards me?
You have dug up older threads by me, quoted me, already called me a yankee basher and an israeli basher (btw were those insults?)
You say i'm looking for attention? sure my friend, I think you need to look into a mirror. I have no doubt that anyone who checks out the way you have posted will see the true picture.
I'm not at all angry at you, infact I'm quite flattered by all of this. So please, continue. continue finding older threads by me and bumping them to the first page. If you feel that people will like you for it, if that's what you are looking for, really, feel free.
But I rather not reply to anymore of your posts because it seems to be a waste of time. Well on the forums that is, if you want to talk otherwise my PM box is always open.
Later,
Brian.
Big guys dont file reports and rat people out. only pussies do that. dont flatter yourself. your a troll. nothing more.