Pentagon to Extend Tours for All GIs

scot88

MrBrian wrote:

They should not be in iraq to begin with. but they went, they made that choice.

The troops invaded another land, they are part of a group that is responsible for many many deaths. so they throw some candy at a few kids. You want me to take notice of good things that they do? Tell them to not go. they should rather face lock up. like i said, they can't lock every troop up for not going yeah? but that point you ignored in my other post.

At the end of the day, Bush aint the one holding the gun.

telling all of the soldiers to just drop their guns and not go to war is ridiculous. most of them agree with the war (but i'm not going to reject talking to them or dismiss their views simply because they differ from mine.) as for those who disagree with the war (deffinetly not the majority,) should they not go to iraq and face the consequences? well, let's take a look at the conseqences. worst case scenario (which would never happen), they are convicted of running away (not awol, i forget the technical term), and are hanged. best case scenario, dishonorable discharge with a bleek job outlook (who is going to hire someone with a dishonorable discarge... i know people who have gotten them and it's a bitch to get a job.) what would probably happen is you would go to a miliary prison for a year, maybe a few, and then dishonorably discarged. so now you have a dishonorable discharge and have to report going to prison. in simple terms: your fucked.

so there goes that theory.

MrBrian

scot88 wrote:

telling all of the soldiers to just drop their guns and not go to war is ridiculous. most of them agree with the war (but i'm not going to reject talking to them or dismiss their views simply because they differ from mine.) as for those who disagree with the war (deffinetly not the majority,) should they not go to iraq and face the consequences? well, let's take a look at the conseqences. worst case scenario (which would never happen), they are convicted of running away (not awol, i forget the technical term), and are hanged. best case scenario, dishonorable discharge with a bleek job outlook (who is going to hire someone with a dishonorable discarge... i know people who have gotten them and it's a bitch to get a job.) what would probably happen is you would go to a miliary prison for a year, maybe a few, and then dishonorably discarged. so now you have a dishonorable discharge and have to report going to prison. in simple terms: your fucked.

so there goes that theory.

Wal mart, mc donalds, burger king. they always are looking for people. I don't think they'll care about a dishonrable discharge.

Yes they should face the consequences. Now as far as the majority goes, if you are correct and they do support the war, well then. I stand even firmer with what I said about them earlier on.

scot88

MrBrian wrote:

Wal mart, mc donalds, burger king. they always are looking for people. I don't think they'll care about a dishonrable discharge.

Yes they should face the consequences. Now as far as the majority goes, if you are correct and they do support the war, well then. I stand even firmer with what I said about them earlier on.

i know for a fact that walmart does not hire people with dishonorable discharges.

and again, you are just proving how narrow minded you are, despite your ultra liberal views.

Ericastrada

scot88 wrote:

i know for a fact that walmart does not hire people with dishonorable discharges.

and again, you are just proving how narrow minded you are, despite your ultra liberal views.

McDonald's also will not hire people with a dishonorable discharge.

gue_barium

ProvidenceHunter wrote:

Wow, you have no idea what type of people these soldiers are.

They're just like you and me, and any other asshole on the street.

gue_barium

MrBrian wrote:

They should not be in iraq to begin with. but they went, they made that choice.

The troops invaded another land, they are part of a group that is responsible for many many deaths. so they throw some candy at a few kids. You want me to take notice of good things that they do? Tell them to not go. they should rather face lock up. like i said, they can't lock every troop up for not going yeah? but that point you ignored in my other post.

At the end of the day, Bush aint the one holding the gun.

There are enlistees in Iraq who joined the armed forces after March of 2003, but I'll bet they are less than 15% of the forces over there right now. I wish I could get the stats on that. It may be higher, but I doubt it. You also have to consider the fact that some of the facts about this administration and this war hadn't reached the ears of a large part of the country til this last year or two.

So, get off your moral high horse. Please.

MrBrian

gue_barium wrote:

There are enlistees in Iraq who joined the armed forces after March of 2003, but I'll bet they are less than 15% of the forces over there right now. I wish I could get the stats on that. It may be higher, but I doubt it. You also have to consider the fact that some of the facts about this administration and this war hadn't reached the ears of a large part of the country til this last year or two.

So, get off your moral high horse. Please.

Hadn't reached the ears? what the hell are you talking about? it's people like you who make the troops and avg american seem like an idiot, fucking waiting for info to reach you, if you wait too long it may never even fucking come. You have to go out and take the info, look for it yourself. I did, most of the planet did. lots and lots of people knew how bad this all was years ago. so don't give me this pathetic song about info and facts reaching ears. what an excuse.

I also gave my example about 9/11, how many people asked why? so many believed the "attack on freedom" line, started flying flags and all ready for revenge.
---

walk mart does'nt hire them? fine, my bad, but the point is, I bet enough places do, so can't find a job is not an excuse.

ProvidenceHunter

gue_barium wrote:

They're just like you and me, and any other asshole on the street.

No they are not. Most "any other asshole on the street" is not willing to make the sacrafices the soldiers make. Most people are to selfish to even consider joining the armed services. I am not trying to say soldiers are better, I am just saying they are different.

Here is a fun fact. Only 6% of the population joins the armed forces.

And MrBrain still does not know what type of people the soldiers are.

MrBrian

ProvidenceHunter wrote:

No they are not. Most "any other asshole on the street" is not willing to make the sacrafices the soldiers make. Most people are to selfish to even consider joining the armed services. I am not trying to say soldiers are better, I am just saying they are different.

Here is a fun fact. Only 6% of the population joins the armed forces.

And MrBrain still does not know what type of people the soldiers are.

they are types of people (according to gue) that don't look for info themselves but wait for it to reach them, perhaps via Osmosis? I dunno.

scot88

MrBrian wrote:

they are types of people (according to gue) that don't look for info themselves but wait for it to reach them, perhaps via Osmosis? I dunno.

what? did you read his post? he said nothing about soldiers not looking for information and waiting for it to reach them. he said that he hadn't looked it up. i dont think he is a soldier, so what the hell are you talking about?

gue_barium

MrBrian wrote:

Hadn't reached the ears? what the hell are you talking about? it's people like you who make the troops and avg american seem like an idiot, fucking waiting for info to reach you, if you wait too long it may never even fucking come. You have to go out and take the info, look for it yourself. I did, most of the planet did. lots and lots of people knew how bad this all was years ago. so don't give me this pathetic song about info and facts reaching ears. what an excuse.

I also gave my example about 9/11, how many people asked why? so many believed the "attack on freedom" line, started flying flags and all ready for revenge.
---

walk mart does'nt hire them? fine, my bad, but the point is, I bet enough places do, so can't find a job is not an excuse.

If I were 16 in this day and age, and in the same environment I was when I was 16 I would have done the same thing I did then, and join the service. I was a smart kid, but I didn't see many options.

baraka

gue_barium wrote:

There are enlistees in Iraq who joined the armed forces after March of 2003, but I'll bet they are less than 15% of the forces over there right now. I wish I could get the stats on that. It may be higher, but I doubt it. You also have to consider the fact that some of the facts about this administration and this war hadn't reached the ears of a large part of the country til this last year or two.

So, get off your moral high horse. Please.

Nice post, gue. I work at a VA, so I'm in contact with Vets everyday. There are those special few that feel an obligation to serve their country & the ones I know that were deployed to Iraq joined way before 9/11. The majority of them do not want to be in Iraq.

MrBrian, because I where I work, I have much compassion for the men and women who serve our country. The majority of our patients are Vietnam Vets. I can not tell you the mental anguish that was caused by people when they returned home. I see the effects of that every day. I urge you not to repeat the same mistakes Americans did when the troops returned home from Vietnan.

gue_barium

baraka wrote:

Nice post, gue. I work at a VA, so I'm in contact with Vets everyday. There are those special few that feel an obligation to serve their country & the ones I know that were deployed to Iraq joined way before 9/11. The majority of them do not want to be in Iraq.

MrBrian, because I where I work, I have much compassion for the men and women who serve our country. The majority of our patients are Vietnam Vets. I can not tell you the mental anguish that was caused by people when they returned home. I see the effects of that every day. I urge you not to repeat the same mistakes Americans did when the troops returned home from Vietnan.

Thanks.

MrBrian

gue_barium wrote:

If I were 16 in this day and age, and in the same environment I was when I was 16 I would have done the same thing I did then, and join the service. I was a smart kid, but I didn't see many options.

Perhaps this is a major issue that needs to be addressed, options. I guess a young kid trying to find some answers or something in life... joins the army, before he knows it he get's sent off and becomes a killer.

But I don't see these "support the troops" folk even touching on these things. well some are of course but it seems to be a very sensitive subject, as it should be. They are a countries protection, but so is education. if these people knew the history, if the avg american knew what was going on, could they, would they still support the war? would they still go to war?

As I've mentioned earlier, without the troops one can not have the war. That's why I can't say that I support them. I mean barka you are talking about the mental anguish, but would they of had it if they went? of course that was due to the draft, nevertheless I think that it takes more balls to refuse to fight than to go and fight and not a single soul could ever make me go and kill other people or be part of that.

Also I'd like to mention that american policy has been corrupt not just from Bush, but for years, 80's,70's,60's,50's I mean it's nothing new. So if people joined the army before 2003 or not, it's still no excuse for them being in it.

(btw scott, re read the thread. the post was about info on bush not reaching a large part of the country yet)

MrBrian

BuMpItY bUmP

gue_barium

MrBrian wrote:

Perhaps this is a major issue that needs to be addressed, options. I guess a young kid trying to find some answers or something in life... joins the army, before he knows it he get's sent off and becomes a killer.

But I don't see these "support the troops" folk even touching on these things. well some are of course but it seems to be a very sensitive subject, as it should be. They are a countries protection, but so is education. if these people knew the history, if the avg american knew what was going on, could they, would they still support the war? would they still go to war?

As I've mentioned earlier, without the troops one can not have the war. That's why I can't say that I support them. I mean barka you are talking about the mental anguish, but would they of had it if they went? of course that was due to the draft, nevertheless I think that it takes more balls to refuse to fight than to go and fight and not a single soul could ever make me go and kill other people or be part of that.

Also I'd like to mention that american policy has been corrupt not just from Bush, but for years, 80's,70's,60's,50's I mean it's nothing new. So if people joined the army before 2003 or not, it's still no excuse for them being in it.

(btw scott, re read the thread. the post was about info on bush not reaching a large part of the country yet)

I think you're making the false assumption that Iraq is all that is going on in the American military. This isn't the case at all.

MrBrian

gue_barium wrote:

I think you're making the false assumption that Iraq is all that is going on in the American military. This isn't the case at all.

No, not at all. I am well aware that they are strategically placed around the world to help america continue her dominance.

But it is true that iraq is the main issue at hand. That's why I'll bring it up.

gue_barium

MrBrian wrote:

No, not at all. I am well aware that they are strategically placed around the world to help america continue her dominance.

But it is true that iraq is the main issue at hand. That's why I'll bring it up.

I think you need to make up your mind. You seem to lean heavily on the idea of "corruption" as being the cause of the US military.

MrBrian

gue_barium wrote:

You seem to lean heavily on the idea of "corruption" as being the cause of the US military.

corruption has caused the use of the US military in ways that it should not be used.

Greed causes corruption, corruption causes bad moves. Now thats how I feel about the people in charge. the politicians. now as far as the troops go, they allow themselves to be treated like cattle.

and you, how are the troops not to blame for any of these messes america finds herself in?