I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Morally speaking there's not much of a difference between killing people based by sex at birth, or 20 years later based by sex and occupation, especially when the occupation is primarily done by one gender. Both situations should be abhorant, but North America definitely accepts the latter.
this is pure bullshit. who is "killing" men based on their sex 20 years after their birth? your poor oppressed white male complex is laughable.
so you feel the same way then about the holocaust, right?
I've already said I'm against the murder of the girls after birth. But I'm not going to condemn an entire society that may very well find that act morally repugnant. Equally I'm not going to condemn all German culture, but I definitely condemn the holocaust and those responsible for it.
Forgive the person not the sin kinda of thing.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
but do YOU find it reprehensible? is it acceptable behavior? should we allow it to happen becos it is their culture?
I personally find it obscene and reprehensible, just like I find abortion reprehensible, based on my personal morals. And like I find the Iraq war and that killing reprehensible.
Should we "allow" it? This is where I get nervous. I'm 100% with surferdude on this one: I know so very little about their culture and their views so the idea that I have any right to impose my views and beliefs on a different culture is also reprehensible to me. To do so is the opposite of problem solving in my view. And with above board problem solving on such an issue, we may not be able to make much of a difference to a whole culture in their cultural evolution. I can recognize what is within my ethical power to change and I can accept what is not. And I personally trust my own ability to tell the difference. I am not the guardian of life to mete out judgment and punishment. I am one person, thoroughly immersed in my own culture including it's own blindspots.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
this is pure bullshit. who is "killing" men based on their sex 20 years after their birth? your poor oppressed white male complex is laughable.
Actually I was thinking more of the poor African American male that I've been told over and over on this board is preyed on by the American military. But if you have the need to make it personal as a way to absolve your guilt go ahead, it's Friday after all.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Actually I was thinking more of the poor African American male that I've been told over and over on this board is preyed on by the American military. But if you have the need to make it personal as a way to absolve your guilt go ahead, it's Friday after all.
ive got no guilt. i was born lucky and im not going to apologize for it. not sure what you're talking about there though. if you're talking about police brutality, that's not the military and yes i am every bit as outraged over that as i am about this. senseless killing is repugnant to me, period. im not condemning indian culture, i dont even know what their culture is. im just saying anyone who kills a baby is sick, and anyone comparing that to the injustice of taxation is too
I've already said I'm against the murder of the girls after birth. But I'm not going to condemn an entire society that may very well find that act morally repugnant. Equally I'm not going to condemn all German culture, but I definitely condemn the holocaust and those responsible for it.
Forgive the person not the sin kinda of thing.
so you're personally against killing girls but you won't do anything about it?
speak slowly, i'm really hungover.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
Morally speaking there's not much of a difference between killing people based by sex at birth, or 20 years later based by sex and occupation, especially when the occupation is primarily done by one gender. Both situations should be abhorant, but North America definitely accepts the latter.
I look forward to arguing alongside you next time someone is claiming that some proposed occupational safety standard is an unfair infringement on the rights of the employer because all those men CHOSE to take those jobs.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
I personally find it obscene and reprehensible, just like I find abortion reprehensible, based on my personal morals. And like I find the Iraq war and that killing reprehensible.
Should we "allow" it? This is where I get nervous. I'm 100% with surferdude on this one: I know so very little about their culture and their views so the idea that I have any right to impose my views and beliefs on a different culture is also reprehensible to me. To do so is the opposite of problem solving in my view. And with above board problem solving on such an issue, we may not be able to make much of a difference to a whole culture in their cultural evolution. I can recognize what is within my ethical power to change and I can accept what is not. And I personally trust my own ability to tell the difference. I am not the guardian of life to mete out judgment and punishment. I am one person, thoroughly immersed in my own culture including it's own blindspots.
i feel as a country we ought not support such things. im not talking about military intervention. im talking more economic. im quite positive we give money to them. cut that off. tell them until they do something about this trend, americans will take their business elsewhere.
so you're personally against killing girls but you won't do anything about it?
speak slowly, i'm really hungover.
Not at all. On the aborting of female girls there's nothing I can do and probably nothing I should do without getting into the whole abortion debate and trying to then justify when abortion is okay and when it's not.
I just don't know enough about Indian culture to know if this killing of girls after birth is sociably acceptable or not. I'm fully prepared to condemn the individual though.
I'm with you on the hang over thing.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
I look forward to arguing alongside you next time someone is claiming that some proposed occupational safety standard is an unfair infringement on the rights of the employer because all those men CHOSE to take those jobs.
Look if you want someone who makes sense across a wide range of issues you got the wrong man. I fully hold onto my right to contradict myself at all times.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
I personally find it obscene and reprehensible, just like I find abortion reprehensible, based on my personal morals. And like I find the Iraq war and that killing reprehensible.
Should we "allow" it? This is where I get nervous. I'm 100% with surferdude on this one: I know so very little about their culture and their views so the idea that I have any right to impose my views and beliefs on a different culture is also reprehensible to me. To do so is the opposite of problem solving in my view. And with above board problem solving on such an issue, we may not be able to make much of a difference to a whole culture in their cultural evolution. I can recognize what is within my ethical power to change and I can accept what is not. And I personally trust my own ability to tell the difference. I am not the guardian of life to mete out judgment and punishment. I am one person, thoroughly immersed in my own culture including it's own blindspots.
maybe then you can help clarify. were you against the stopping of the holocaust? that was the systematic killing of jews, slavs, people who were born a certain way, like what happens with gender.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
i feel as a country we ought not support such things. im not talking about military intervention. im talking more economic. im quite positive we give money to them. cut that off. tell them until they do something about this trend, americans will take their business elsewhere.
So your solution to people killing girls because they can't afford them is to give them less trade and make them poorer. Funny approach to the problem but who knows it may work.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Look if you want someone who makes sense across a wide range of issues you got the wrong man. I fully hold onto my right to contradict myself at all times.
So your solution to people killing girls because they can't afford them is to give them less trade and make them poorer. Funny approach to the problem but who knows it may work.
i thought i read this problem is most prevalent in the wealthier and better educated famlies, not the poor ones. so maybe if we knock those people off their high horses, they'll realize how messed up it is to put securing their future income against human life.
this is proof positive that rich people are more evil than poor people
I think trying to force a culture to evolve is a lot like strapping legs to fish and throwing it on land. I mean, just look at the Middle East.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
maybe then you can help clarify. were you against the stopping of the holocaust? that was the systematic killing of jews, slavs, people who were born a certain way, like what happens with gender.
I'm not willing to make any highly important decision with far-reaching ramifications if I do not have the vision of insight with which to make it. That includes any retroactive decisions about the holocaust. I am not there, in that time period, assessing my variables, informed by the inner truth of my insight. For me to attempt to recreate that situation in the now is beyond my ability to do, with any sense of certainty and accuracy. Therefore, to me it would be an exercise in imagination, rather than depicting how I would actually deal were the situation happening in my life. Due to the inherent inaccuracy of doing so, I find there to be little to no reason to do it.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Not at all. On the aborting of female girls there's nothing I can do and probably nothing I should do without getting into the whole abortion debate and trying to then justify when abortion is okay and when it's not.
I just don't know enough about Indian culture to know if this killing of girls after birth is sociably acceptable or not. I'm fully prepared to condemn the individual though.
I'm with you on the hang over thing.
i'm not really talking about the abortion part so much--and i thought it was against the law there to abort based on sex. i'm more focused on the girls when they're born and being buried alive and such. say even if that was socially acceptable, you wouldn't want anything done about it? i mean 10 million girls . . .
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
I'm not willing to make any highly important decision with far-reaching ramifications if I do not have the vision of insight with which to make it. That includes any retroactive decisions about the holocaust. I am not there, in that time period, assessing my variables, informed by the inner truth of my insight. For me to attempt to recreate that situation in the now is beyond my ability to do, with any sense of certainty and accuracy. Therefore, to me it would be an exercise in imagination, rather than depicting how I would actually deal were the situation happening in my life. Due to the inherent inaccuracy of doing so, I find there to be little to no reason to do it.
so is this a long-winded way of saying you can't comment on anything that isn't currently happening? but yet, you can't comment on an issue that is currently happening, like female infanticide?
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
I'm not willing to make any highly important decision with far-reaching ramifications if I do not have the vision of insight with which to make it. That includes any retroactive decisions about the holocaust. I am not there, in that time period, assessing my variables, informed by the inner truth of my insight. For me to attempt to recreate that situation in the now is beyond my ability to do, with any sense of certainty and accuracy. Therefore, to me it would be an exercise in imagination, rather than depicting how I would actually deal were the situation happening in my life. Due to the inherent inaccuracy of doing so, I find there to be little to no reason to do it.
We don't make any highly important decisions here, it's a rock band message board, so feel free to speak your mind. How many variables do we need to assess before we can confidently say that attempting to exterminate an entire race of people was a bad thing?
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
so is this a long-winded way of saying you can't comment on anything that isn't currently happening? but yet, you can't comment on an issue that is currently happening, like female infanticide?
Is this your way of saying you missed it when I did say this: "I know so very little about their culture and their views so the idea that I have any right to impose my views and beliefs on a different culture is also reprehensible to me. To do so is the opposite of problem solving in my view." Or that you missed where I said that what they are doing is reprehensible?
I clearly commented on the issue currently happening. If I was not clear enough: I am 100% opposed to acting on this information in terms of attempting to take measures designed to change people because that does not work for the intended purpose. Further, I said it was reprehensible to try to do so, in that we would complicate the problem rather than be part of a solution. It would be a way of undermining our own selves by our self-centered blindness, in my opinion.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
We don't make any highly important decisions here, it's a rock band message board, so feel free to speak your mind. How many variables do we need to assess before we can confidently say that attempting to exterminate an entire race of people was a bad thing?
As I said, a pretend idea of what I would do, to me, is irrelevent and inaccurate. I invest my energy in what makes sense for me. Whether a band message board or in "real" life, it is important to me to be authentic. There is no point for me to state and back something I can't support or stand behind--an illusion, in other words.
The key in retro decisions is not the variables involved. It is that if I lack the context within which decisions are made, I'm unable to feel confident even supposing a decision. Or even in taking a stab in the dark.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Is this your way of saying you missed it when I did say this: "I know so very little about their culture and their views so the idea that I have any right to impose my views and beliefs on a different culture is also reprehensible to me. To do so is the opposite of problem solving in my view." Or that you missed where I said that what they are doing is reprehensible?
I clearly commented on the issue currently happening. If I was not clear enough: I am 100% opposed to acting on this information in terms of attempting to take measures designed to change people because that does not work for the intended purpose. Further, I said it was reprehensible to try to do so, in that we would complicate the problem rather than be part of a solution. It would be a way of undermining our own selves by our self-centered blindness, in my opinion.
sorry. i guess i just don't understand how one can say that the practice of mass killing is reprehensible yet it would be self-centered to do something about it.
i don't see female infanticide or mass killings due to race, ethnicity, etc. as a cultural practice we should respect. i see it as a human rights issue.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
sorry. i guess i just don't understand how one can say that the practice of mass killing is reprehensible yet it would be self-centered to do something about it.
i don't see female infanticide or mass killings due to race, ethnicity, etc. as a cultural practice we should respect. i see it as a human rights issue.
Maybe with differing views discourse and conflict can give rise to solutions.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
sorry. i guess i just don't understand how one can say that the practice of mass killing is reprehensible yet it would be self-centered to do something about it.
It's a psychological principle that to take the "I'm right/you're wrong" approach, you guarantee yourself imbalanced repercussions because you are coming from an imbalanced perspective. Whereas the idea is if one is be realistic and on a equal playing field, one accepts that one's own views are there for a reason, and also that the Indian family's views are also there for a reason. By this willingness to look into the situation, we can find the actual issues/causes, and even possibly make movement towards solutions. It's about suspending judgment so that we can learn and use our logic without distorting it. When we distort logic with emotion, we therefore act in distorted ways, which begets distorted payback. The way of imposing views on others ends up more like the Iraq war: "we're going to give you freedom, whether you like it or not". (it doesn't work, and shows how dysfunctional the original approach is, AND has a huge payback for the perpetrators.)
i don't see female infanticide or mass killings due to race, ethnicity, etc. as a cultural practice we should respect. i see it as a human rights issue.
I don't respect it, I don't support it. I don't condone it. I seek to understand it because that is the only way actual solutions will unfold. The solution exists within the situation.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
It's a psychological principle that to take the "I'm right/you're wrong" approach, you guarantee yourself imbalanced repercussions because you are coming from an imbalanced perspective. Whereas the idea is if one is be realistic and on a equal playing field, one accepts that one's own views are there for a reason, and also that the Indian family's views are also there for a reason. By this willingness to look into the situation, we can find the actual issues/causes, and even possibly make movement towards solutions. It's about suspending judgment so that we can learn and use our logic without distorting it. When we distort logic with emotion, we therefore act in distorted ways, which begets distorted payback. The way of imposing views on others ends up more like the Iraq war: "we're going to give you freedom, whether you like it or not". (it doesn't work, and shows how dysfunctional the original approach is, AND has a huge payback for the perpetrators.)
I don't respect it, I don't support it. I don't condone it. I seek to understand it because that is the only way actual solutions will unfold. The solution exists within the situation.
this all sounds like the exact same reasoning ahnimus was using in the rape thread that got you all bent out of shape.
this all sounds like the exact same reasoning ahnimus was using in the rape thread that got you all bent out of shape.
I didn't see the rape thread until yesterday when the link was posted to it in the criminal thread. So I definitely did not get bent out of shape about it. For the record, I mostly agreed with what Ahnimus was saying, from what I read (and I only read a page or so). I also mentioned a few times in the criminal thread that I agreed with his view throughout regarding understanding criminals. That is where he and I see eye to eye.
I stand strong behind that because like Ahnimus, I know what it is like being an intelligent person who has dramatically felt the consequences of the way society treated me. As a teenager I used to fantasize about committing suicide and taking people with me. There are reasons that happens. I have the utmost compassion for the throwaway people of our society. As a matter of fact, I believe that I am very blessed that I have made it out of "that world" by the grace of God and a few good people. The majority of people reinforced the horrible fallout I experienced. And they do not realize what accountability they hold. When we blame one to absolve many, we miss out on understanding. I have many friends who are no longer with us--they paid the price for our evolution. Victims are victims. Rapists and the raped are two sides of the abuse coin, for example. I am for renewed systems that are beyond concepts of sacrificing for the whole.
However, I understand there are practical considerations that you raise. For example with rape or criminals in our own backyard--in our own countries, I am all for having practical consequences. And I know they are accountable for their actions. We all are.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
this is just fucking sick i don't care for what reasons the indians are doing this it's just plain wrong i believe this has to affect the karma of the whole human race for the worst i'm afraid, poor souls and yet they worship rats & cows but not women who by the way are the one's god chose to cary the burden of childbirth...........
Comments
this is pure bullshit. who is "killing" men based on their sex 20 years after their birth? your poor oppressed white male complex is laughable.
Forgive the person not the sin kinda of thing.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Should we "allow" it? This is where I get nervous. I'm 100% with surferdude on this one: I know so very little about their culture and their views so the idea that I have any right to impose my views and beliefs on a different culture is also reprehensible to me. To do so is the opposite of problem solving in my view. And with above board problem solving on such an issue, we may not be able to make much of a difference to a whole culture in their cultural evolution. I can recognize what is within my ethical power to change and I can accept what is not. And I personally trust my own ability to tell the difference. I am not the guardian of life to mete out judgment and punishment. I am one person, thoroughly immersed in my own culture including it's own blindspots.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
ive got no guilt. i was born lucky and im not going to apologize for it. not sure what you're talking about there though. if you're talking about police brutality, that's not the military and yes i am every bit as outraged over that as i am about this. senseless killing is repugnant to me, period. im not condemning indian culture, i dont even know what their culture is. im just saying anyone who kills a baby is sick, and anyone comparing that to the injustice of taxation is too
this might be the only thing we ever agreed on.
so you're personally against killing girls but you won't do anything about it?
speak slowly, i'm really hungover.
cross the river to the eastside
i feel as a country we ought not support such things. im not talking about military intervention. im talking more economic. im quite positive we give money to them. cut that off. tell them until they do something about this trend, americans will take their business elsewhere.
I just don't know enough about Indian culture to know if this killing of girls after birth is sociably acceptable or not. I'm fully prepared to condemn the individual though.
I'm with you on the hang over thing.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
maybe then you can help clarify. were you against the stopping of the holocaust? that was the systematic killing of jews, slavs, people who were born a certain way, like what happens with gender.
cross the river to the eastside
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
i think i need a disclaimer like this in my sig
i thought i read this problem is most prevalent in the wealthier and better educated famlies, not the poor ones. so maybe if we knock those people off their high horses, they'll realize how messed up it is to put securing their future income against human life.
this is proof positive that rich people are more evil than poor people
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
i'm not really talking about the abortion part so much--and i thought it was against the law there to abort based on sex. i'm more focused on the girls when they're born and being buried alive and such. say even if that was socially acceptable, you wouldn't want anything done about it? i mean 10 million girls . . .
cross the river to the eastside
so is this a long-winded way of saying you can't comment on anything that isn't currently happening? but yet, you can't comment on an issue that is currently happening, like female infanticide?
cross the river to the eastside
I clearly commented on the issue currently happening. If I was not clear enough: I am 100% opposed to acting on this information in terms of attempting to take measures designed to change people because that does not work for the intended purpose. Further, I said it was reprehensible to try to do so, in that we would complicate the problem rather than be part of a solution. It would be a way of undermining our own selves by our self-centered blindness, in my opinion.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
The key in retro decisions is not the variables involved. It is that if I lack the context within which decisions are made, I'm unable to feel confident even supposing a decision. Or even in taking a stab in the dark.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
sorry. i guess i just don't understand how one can say that the practice of mass killing is reprehensible yet it would be self-centered to do something about it.
i don't see female infanticide or mass killings due to race, ethnicity, etc. as a cultural practice we should respect. i see it as a human rights issue.
cross the river to the eastside
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I don't respect it, I don't support it. I don't condone it. I seek to understand it because that is the only way actual solutions will unfold. The solution exists within the situation.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
this all sounds like the exact same reasoning ahnimus was using in the rape thread that got you all bent out of shape.
I stand strong behind that because like Ahnimus, I know what it is like being an intelligent person who has dramatically felt the consequences of the way society treated me. As a teenager I used to fantasize about committing suicide and taking people with me. There are reasons that happens. I have the utmost compassion for the throwaway people of our society. As a matter of fact, I believe that I am very blessed that I have made it out of "that world" by the grace of God and a few good people. The majority of people reinforced the horrible fallout I experienced. And they do not realize what accountability they hold. When we blame one to absolve many, we miss out on understanding. I have many friends who are no longer with us--they paid the price for our evolution. Victims are victims. Rapists and the raped are two sides of the abuse coin, for example. I am for renewed systems that are beyond concepts of sacrificing for the whole.
However, I understand there are practical considerations that you raise. For example with rape or criminals in our own backyard--in our own countries, I am all for having practical consequences. And I know they are accountable for their actions. We all are.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!