Cheney endorses simulated drowning

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Comments

  • Puck78Puck78 Posts: 737
    jeffbr wrote:
    What about being locked in a cold cell and made to listen to Bon Jovi 24 hours a day?
    What about wiping my ass with the Koran while the detainees are praying?
    both the things have been used in Guantanamo (extremely loud rock music and pissing over the Koran, or tearing it apart) have been used in Guantanamo.
    And, yes, strong emotional/psychological distress is considered as torture (example: a mock execution is torture).
    www.amnesty.org
    www.amnesty.org.uk
  • jeffbrjeffbr Posts: 7,177
    Puck78 wrote:
    both the things have been used in Guantanamo (extremely loud rock music and pissing over the Koran, or tearing it apart) have been used in Guantanamo.
    And, yes, strong emotional/psychological distress is considered as torture (example: a mock execution is torture).

    See I don't have a problem if the fuckers are cold and uncomfortable. I don't have a problem if they feel their religion is insulted. I don't consider either of those torture. I do have a problem with waterboarding, breaking fingers, electrocuting testicles, cigarette burns, etc... To me, the latter are forms of torture, the former are coersive interrogation techniques.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    yosi wrote:
    That's a fallacious argument. Its an ad hominem. It doesn't prove your point.

    Learn how to debate.

    Agreed. Acting like an ass is a poor tactic.
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    jeffbr wrote:
    See I don't have a problem if the fuckers are cold and uncomfortable. I don't have a problem if they feel their religion is insulted. I don't consider either of those torture. I do have a problem with waterboarding, breaking fingers, electrocuting testicles, cigarette burns, etc... To me, the latter are forms of torture, the former are coersive interrogation techniques.

    Agreed, more or less.
  • jeffbr wrote:
    See I don't have a problem if the fuckers are cold and uncomfortable. I don't have a problem if they feel their religion is insulted. I don't consider either of those torture. I do have a problem with waterboarding, breaking fingers, electrocuting testicles, cigarette burns, etc... To me, the latter are forms of torture, the former are coersive interrogation techniques.

    Only for those given a fair trial, correct?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    guilty until proven innocent.

    what an age we live in. god bless the usa.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_combatant
  • so, would you please go on record and state, as a fact, that we have not rounded up ONE innocent person in our war on terrorism?


    That's just crazy and dare I say it.....*ducks the flames*..... Nazi-like.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    so, would you please go on record and state, as a fact, that we have not rounded up ONE innocent person in our war on terrorism?


    please go on the record. thats funny. like this is some court room or something.
  • WTF are you talking about.

    Holding so many people without charges or trials in these horrible conditions. sorry I didnt make that clearer, my fault.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • seagoat2seagoat2 Posts: 241
    Despicable & Inexcusable!!!
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    so that's a "no" then. duly noted.


    putting words in someones mouth works out well for you doesnt it.
  • no worries, i thought you were calling me a nazi there for a second!

    lol! Nope but this place sure has the tendency to get us on edge, sometimes, so it's understandable.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    i learned it by watching you.


    I bet you have learned alot from me. keeping watching, you will learn more.
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    I bet you have learned alot from me. keeping watching, you will learn more.

    I'm at the edge of my seat!
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    me too.

    and i think i just millered myself from laughing!

    its gonna be a wild ride :)
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    A terror suspect is any dark-skinned muslim that tries to board a plane.

    Or your grandpa protesting the war.

    I mean, Maher Arar was flying home to Montreal with a stop-over in New York where he was detained by U.S. Officials. He was deported from the U.S. to Syria where he was tortured for about a year. Then he was sent back to his comfy home in Canada.

    It's fucking sick.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Puck78Puck78 Posts: 737
    jlew24asu wrote:
    everybody can write on wikipedia, also people without legal knowledges or with biased opinions. For real legal definition of "enemy combatant", look at here:
    http://hrw.org/backgrounder/usa/qna1006/

    Definition of Unlawful Enemy Combatant

    7. What is the definition of “combatant” under international law?

    International humanitarian law (the laws of war) draws a distinction between “combatants,” defined as members of armed forces, and civilians. Civilians who are actively participating in hostilities can be treated as combatants. Deeming someone to be a combatant has important consequences: under international humanitarian law, combatants may be lawfully attacked and killed, and are subject to capture.

    8. What is the definition of “unlawful enemy combatant” under the MCA and how does it comport with international law?

    The MCA expands the definition of “combatant” to include those who have “purposefully and materially” supported hostilities against the United States, even if they have not taken part in the hostilities themselves, and even if they are arrested far from the battlefield. This turns ordinary civilians – such as a mother giving food to her combatant son, an individual who sends money to a banned group, or a U.S. resident who commits a criminal act unrelated to armed conflict – into “combatants” who can be placed in military custody and hauled before a military commission.

    An additional – and circular – provision specifies that anyone who has been determined to be an “unlawful enemy combatant” by a Combatant Status Review Tribunal (the military boards convened to allow detainees at Guantanamo Bay to contest their status as combatants, called CSRTs) or “another competent tribunal” established by the president or the defense secretary is presumed to be an enemy combatant for the purposes of military commissions. This provision does not include any substantive criteria to guide the deliberations of such tribunals. And, notably, the definition of enemy combatant that has been used by the CSRTs at Guantanamo is even broader than the definition contained in the legislation, encompassing even the unknowing financier of a charitable arm of a terrorist organization. In at least one known case, a CSRT labeled a detainee an enemy combatant for precisely that reason.1

    These definitions have essentially been invented by the administration and Congress. They have no basis in international law and undermine one of the most fundamental pillars of the Geneva Conventions – the distinction between combatants, who engage in hostilities and are subject to attack, and non-combatants.

    9. Does the legislation authorize the indefinite detention of anyone who falls within its definition of “unlawful enemy combatant”?

    The MCA does not explicitly address the question of detention. Yet in detaining persons as enemy combatants, the administration may point to the definition of unlawful enemy combatant under the MCA to try to justify who may be so detained.

    Senators John McCain, John Warner, and Lindsay Graham – three of the primary authors of this legislation – have argued that this definition “simply establishes the jurisdiction of military commissions” and does not, in any way, authorize the arrest and indefinite detention of those who fall within this broad category.2 The legislation itself specifies that the definition of “unlawful enemy combatant” applies to the section of the U.S. code establishing military commissions.




    1 Combatant Status Review Tribunal Transcript of Detainee ISN #229, U.S. Department of Defense, Set 4, Page 390, Released March 3, 2006, http://www.dod.mil/pubs/foi/detainees/csrt/.

    2 John Warner, John McCain, Lindsay Graham, “Looking Past the Tortured Distortions”, Wall Street Journal¸ October 2, 2006.
    www.amnesty.org
    www.amnesty.org.uk
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Ahnimus wrote:
    A terror suspect is any dark-skinned muslim that tries to board a plane.

    Holy exaggeration, Batman.
  • TarrouTarrou Posts: 16
    jlew24asu wrote:
    while I would do far worse to these terrorists fucks, I do not think the goervnment should be doing this.

    the flip side to water boarding, is it does not do any permant physical damage. it make you think you will drown. its a mind fuck. we arent cutting off fingers.

    I do think it puts our captured soliders at risk of far worse toture. even though they would be and are totured anyway, we shouldnt stoop to that level.

    when it comes to getting information on an immintant dirty bomb going off, then I think the people holding him should break the law and do whatever necessecary to get that info.

    You wouldn't do a damn thing tough guy. You'd be in the corner crying for your mommy; So shut your fucking mouth.
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Tarrou wrote:
    You wouldn't do a damn thing tough guy. You'd be in the corner crying for your mommy; So shut your fucking mouth.

    Why don't you guys get off jlew's back? I'm tired of watching all the personal stuff on here ... Everyone is being pissy and this place is going to get locked down again.
  • some should turn off 24 with keifer sutherland and go read "my pet goat"
  • jeffbrjeffbr Posts: 7,177
    Tarrou wrote:
    You wouldn't do a damn thing tough guy. You'd be in the corner crying for your mommy; So shut your fucking mouth.

    Do you try to get banned? Didn't you go through this before with your first couple of posts?
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • RushlimboRushlimbo Posts: 832
    jeffbr wrote:
    Do you try to get banned? Didn't you go through this before with your first couple of posts?

    Mind your own business. If he wants to be banned then more power to him. Stop trying to be his mommy. Jeez.
    War is Peace
    Freedom is Slavery
    Ignorance is Strength
  • jeffbrjeffbr Posts: 7,177
    Rushlimbo wrote:
    Mind your own business. If he wants to be banned then more power to him. Stop trying to be his mommy. Jeez.

    Take your own advice, kid.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • denverfandenverfan Posts: 218
    Have any of you actually seen this in action?...it's far less the crisis situation your making it out to be. I thought at first this sounded terrible, then had someone demonstrate exaclty what it was...not a big deal at all. I do the same thing to myself when I try getting rid of the hiccups
    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity but they've always worked for me." Gonzo

    'If my fuckin' ex-wife told me to take care of her dog while her and her new boyfriend went to Honolulu, I'd tell her to go fuck herself." -The Dude

    Whisky Drinker, Non-Hunter from Denver.
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    the flip side to water boarding, is it does not do any permant physical damage. it make you think you will drown. its a mind fuck. we arent cutting off fingers.

    It's a dunk tank, that's all. They sit the suspected terrorist on a little plank of wood over a big tub of water, and try to throw softballs at the target, and everyone has a great time. Hot dogs are grilled and then force fed to the detainees.

    The fruit of their labor rewards them with the admissons of 30 of the detainees describing in detail how they participated in the assassination of JFK.
    fuck the public
  • denverfan wrote:
    Have any of you actually seen this in action?...it's far less the crisis situation your making it out to be. I thought at first this sounded terrible, then had someone demonstrate exaclty what it was...not a big deal at all. I do the same thing to myself when I try getting rid of the hiccups
    Wow! You must have some awesome hiccups.

    I saw it last night on Olbermann. Some intelligence officer hired people to demonstrate on him. He had his hands shackled in front of him. They had him bent over backwards over a trough. His head was covered with some sort of tight-fitting shroud, with only his mouth exposed. One guy held his head down and just kept pouring water down his mouth and around his chin. Another guy holding him down was also pouring water all over this body. Between the two guys, he couldn't move at all.

    I could hardly watch it.

    When I get hiccups, I take tiny sips from a glass of water. But you must have some really macho hiccups if you have to do this.
    "Things will just get better and better even though it
    doesn't feel that way right now. That's the hopeful
    idea . . . Hope didn't get much applause . . .
    Hope! Hope is the underdog!"

    -- EV, Live at the Showbox
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    Holy exaggeration, Batman.

    is that so? seems like some ppl can't wait to jump the gun and automatically assume

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=219048
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • denverfandenverfan Posts: 218
    Hope&Anger wrote:
    Wow! You must have some awesome hiccups.

    I saw it last night on Olbermann. Some intelligence officer hired people to demonstrate on him. He had his hands shackled in front of him. They had him bent over backwards over a trough. His head was covered with some sort of tight-fitting shroud, with only his mouth exposed. One guy held his head down and just kept pouring water down his mouth and around his chin. Another guy holding him down was also pouring water all over this body. Between the two guys, he couldn't move at all.

    I could hardly watch it.

    When I get hiccups, I take tiny sips from a glass of water. But you must have some really macho hiccups if you have to do this.

    and you think this is some terrible torture???
    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity but they've always worked for me." Gonzo

    'If my fuckin' ex-wife told me to take care of her dog while her and her new boyfriend went to Honolulu, I'd tell her to go fuck herself." -The Dude

    Whisky Drinker, Non-Hunter from Denver.
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