Cheney endorses simulated drowning
ledvedderman
Posts: 7,762
Calls use of water boarding a ‘no-brainer’ to get intelligence on terrorists
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15431835/
WASHINGTON - Dick Cheney, US vice-president, has endorsed the use of "water boarding" for terror suspects and confirmed that the controversial interrogation technique was used on Khaled Sheikh Mohammed, the senior al-Qaeda operative now being held at Guantánamo Bay.
Cheney was responding to a radio interviewer from North Dakota's WDAY who asked whether water boarding, which involves simulated drowning, was a "no-brainer" if the information it yielded would save American lives. "It's a no-brainer for me," Cheney replied.
The comments by the vice-president, who has been one of the leading advocates of reducing limitations on what interrogation techniques can be used in the war on terror, are the first public confirmation that water boarding has been used on suspects held in US custody.
"For a while there, I was criticized as being the 'vice-president for torture'," Cheney added. "We don't torture ... We live up to our obligations in international treaties that we're party to and so forth.
"But the fact is, you can have a fairly robust interrogation program without torture and we need to be able to do that."
Cheney said recent legislation passed by Congress allowed the White House to continue its aggressive interrogation program.
But his remarks appear to stand at odds with the views of three key Republican senators who helped draft the recently passed Military Commission Act, and who argue that water boarding is not permitted according to that law.
"[It's] a direct affront to the primary authors of the Military Commission Act in the Senate — John McCain, Lindsey Graham and John Warner — all of whom have publicly stated that the legislation signed by the president last week makes water boarding a war crime," said Jennifer Daskal, advocacy director at Human Rights Watch. "This is Cheney ignoring the consensus of his own Pentagon," she said, referring to comments by senior officials that harsh interrogation techniques do not produce reliable intelligence.
John Bellinger, the State Department legal adviser, last week declined to answer specific questions on water boarding, saying Congress would have to determine whether specific interrogation techniques were permissible under the Geneva conventions.
The Bush administration was forced to work with Congress to pass the Military Commissions Act after the Supreme Court ruled that al-Qaeda suspects were entitled to some protections under the Geneva convention. "Any procedures going forward would have to comply with the standards of Common Article 3 [of the Geneva conventions], including the prohibition on cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment," Bellinger said. "Congress would have to agree that they are permitted under the law."
Asked in the radio interview whether he would agree that the debate over terrorist interrogations and water boarding was "a little silly", Cheney responded: "I do agree".
"I think the terrorist threat, for example, with respect to our ability to interrogate high-value detainees like Khaled Sheikh Mohammed, that's been a very important tool that we've had to be able to secure the nation," he said.
Copyright The Financial Times Ltd. All rights reserved.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15431835/
WASHINGTON - Dick Cheney, US vice-president, has endorsed the use of "water boarding" for terror suspects and confirmed that the controversial interrogation technique was used on Khaled Sheikh Mohammed, the senior al-Qaeda operative now being held at Guantánamo Bay.
Cheney was responding to a radio interviewer from North Dakota's WDAY who asked whether water boarding, which involves simulated drowning, was a "no-brainer" if the information it yielded would save American lives. "It's a no-brainer for me," Cheney replied.
The comments by the vice-president, who has been one of the leading advocates of reducing limitations on what interrogation techniques can be used in the war on terror, are the first public confirmation that water boarding has been used on suspects held in US custody.
"For a while there, I was criticized as being the 'vice-president for torture'," Cheney added. "We don't torture ... We live up to our obligations in international treaties that we're party to and so forth.
"But the fact is, you can have a fairly robust interrogation program without torture and we need to be able to do that."
Cheney said recent legislation passed by Congress allowed the White House to continue its aggressive interrogation program.
But his remarks appear to stand at odds with the views of three key Republican senators who helped draft the recently passed Military Commission Act, and who argue that water boarding is not permitted according to that law.
"[It's] a direct affront to the primary authors of the Military Commission Act in the Senate — John McCain, Lindsey Graham and John Warner — all of whom have publicly stated that the legislation signed by the president last week makes water boarding a war crime," said Jennifer Daskal, advocacy director at Human Rights Watch. "This is Cheney ignoring the consensus of his own Pentagon," she said, referring to comments by senior officials that harsh interrogation techniques do not produce reliable intelligence.
John Bellinger, the State Department legal adviser, last week declined to answer specific questions on water boarding, saying Congress would have to determine whether specific interrogation techniques were permissible under the Geneva conventions.
The Bush administration was forced to work with Congress to pass the Military Commissions Act after the Supreme Court ruled that al-Qaeda suspects were entitled to some protections under the Geneva convention. "Any procedures going forward would have to comply with the standards of Common Article 3 [of the Geneva conventions], including the prohibition on cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment," Bellinger said. "Congress would have to agree that they are permitted under the law."
Asked in the radio interview whether he would agree that the debate over terrorist interrogations and water boarding was "a little silly", Cheney responded: "I do agree".
"I think the terrorist threat, for example, with respect to our ability to interrogate high-value detainees like Khaled Sheikh Mohammed, that's been a very important tool that we've had to be able to secure the nation," he said.
Copyright The Financial Times Ltd. All rights reserved.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
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What would "simulated drowning" look like? I mean, if you're drowning, you're drowning.
Lifeguard: "My God, are you OK?"
Me: "Yep, no worries. I was just pretending to drown ... Simulation!"0 -
The Geneva Conventions surely prohibit this method as torture and as a form of cruel or degrading treatment. The ICCPR and CAT also forbid water boarding because it inflicts severe mental suffering, as does the UCMJ and federal criminal law.0
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while I would do far worse to these terrorists fucks, I do not think the goervnment should be doing this.
the flip side to water boarding, is it does not do any permant physical damage. it make you think you will drown. its a mind fuck. we arent cutting off fingers.
I do think it puts our captured soliders at risk of far worse toture. even though they would be and are totured anyway, we shouldnt stoop to that level.
when it comes to getting information on an immintant dirty bomb going off, then I think the people holding him should break the law and do whatever necessecary to get that info.0 -
ledvedderman wrote:The Geneva Conventions surely prohibit this method as torture and as a form of cruel or degrading treatment. The ICCPR and CAT also forbid water boarding because it inflicts severe mental suffering, as does the UCMJ and federal criminal law.
captured terrorists are not entitled to geneva convention rights0 -
there is a difference between captured terrorists and terror suspects.jlew24asu wrote:captured terrorists are not entitled to geneva convention rights
in the REAL free world we call it innocent until proven guilty. but then again, america has been using this makeshift prison as an excuse to abuse human rights for years, so whats new?0 -
Scratchin a Letter wrote:there is a difference between captured terrorists and terror suspects.
in the REAL free world we call it innocent until proven guilty. but then again, america has been using this makeshift prison as an excuse to abuse human rights for years, so whats new?
Exactly, and the Veep was talking about terror suspects.0 -
Ill donate some water...............Why go home
www.myspace.com/jensvad0 -
ledvedderman wrote:Exactly, and the Veep was talking about terror suspects.
I'm sorry but khalid sheikh mohammad is more then a suspect. he's innocent until proven guilty, right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_Shaikh_Mohammed
read up on your buddy that you feel so sorry for. fuck him0 -
jeffbr wrote:What is torture?
Well that's easy. Torture is anything done to anyone during a Republican administration."Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-080 -
No, babe, torture is reading your posts.ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:Well that's easy. Torture is anything done to anyone during a Republican administration.
You should join the military and get a job as an interrogator. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed wouldn't last a minute."Things will just get better and better even though it
doesn't feel that way right now. That's the hopeful
idea . . . Hope didn't get much applause . . .
Hope! Hope is the underdog!"
-- EV, Live at the Showbox0 -
This coming from the same guy who thinks spending a nice afternoon with your friend includes putting some birdshot into your friend. this is probably his idea of a party.
(couldn't resist.)0 -
jlew24asu wrote:while I would do far worse to these terrorists fucks, I do not think the goervnment should be doing this.
the flip side to water boarding, is it does not do any permant physical damage. it make you think you will drown. its a mind fuck. we arent cutting off fingers.
I do think it puts our captured soliders at risk of far worse toture. even though they would be and are totured anyway, we shouldnt stoop to that level.
when it comes to getting information on an immintant dirty bomb going off, then I think the people holding him should break the law and do whatever necessecary to get that info.
Now I know why people go to Arizona Sate as a last resort.War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength0 -
Clearly Dick Cheney is an expert on military interrogation. Just because he pussed out on going to Vietnam with 5 separate deferments does not in any way diminish his credibility when it comes to subjects like this.hate was just a legend0
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Well the guy really is a dick
Reality isn't what it used to be.0 -
jlew24asu wrote:I'm sorry but khalid sheikh mohammad is more then a suspect. he's innocent until proven guilty, right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_Shaikh_Mohammed
read up on your buddy that you feel so sorry for. fuck him
That is just pathetic of you. You can't debate issues and you resolve to statements like, "read up on your buddy that you feel so sorry for". Who feels sorry for him? This is the United States of America. You know. Land of the free, home of the brave. We're the only remaining superpower and we resort to torture. Yes terrorists are bad, and they should be dealt with.
We have a moral duty as, what the world (used to at least) views, as the greatest nation on Earth to treat enemy combatants in a moral way. If we torture than what message does that send to other nations. What if Palestinians were torturing members of Israels military? Would we stand for that? Not a chance.
Finally, most of the reason I am against this is because it gives them a reason to torture our soldiers. I have friends serving in that area and do I want them to be tortured based on the policies of this administration? No. But guess what? That's what's going to happen. If we can torture, they will torture our guys.
This is America. It's time we act like it.0 -
ledvedderman wrote:We have a moral duty as, what the world (used to at least) views, as the greatest nation on Earth to treat enemy combatants in a moral way. If we torture than what message does that send to other nations. What if Palestinians were torturing members of Israels military? Would we stand for that? Not a chance.
Finally, most of the reason I am against this is because it gives them a reason to torture our soldiers. I have friends serving in that area and do I want them to be tortured based on the policies of this administration? No. But guess what? That's what's going to happen. If we can torture, they will torture our guys.
This is America. It's time we act like it.
I agree with you 100%. my reply probably shouldnt have been geared towards you.0
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