Amen my friend....it starts with us....the common man...do your part because waiting for those "enlightened" in power to do something will not help anything....
if you follow the natural patterns the earth's cycle would be moving towards another ice age.
this whole argument shouldn't be about whether we are causing warming or cooling,...
or even harsher weather,...
ALL WE DO IS ARGUE,... NOBODY KNOWS WHAT WILL HAPPEN! LET US START POSTING ABOUT THE THINGS WE HAVE DONE TO CHANGE WHAT WE FEEL IS THE BETTER!
it should be about people not being responsible and nobody holding them accountable. people are wasteful. people are careless. people are uninformed. people are LAZY.
you're a real hooker. im gonna slap you in public.
~Ron Burgundy
someone make a post about what they did to change.
someone post how affordable change is.
someone who bought a hybrid, someone who has a great energy saving tool, someone who planted 30 trees,...
let's stop arguing and start doing what we do know can change,...
i posted it in another thread last week i believe but if you're asking i will post again.
i went 100% solar a year ago. i am not hooked to the grid. i bought a newer diesel that burns biodiesel. in the us; the government gives great tax breaks for solar conversion. so the costs are up there at first; but my system paid for itself already. now i'm making money by not having to pay for electricity.
i planted 21 trees last year (i just went and counted) but i think 3 died.
I bought all energy star appliances (for the types of appliances you can at least)....
I recycle bottles/plastic all the time.....
When going to stores I pick up junk that is in my path and place it in the garbage.....some say I am gross but to me the look of garbage all over the place even a parking lot is more disgusting.....
I always turn off all my lights.....if not in the room why have the light on....
Turn off hot water heater/furnace when leaving home for extended period of time....
thanks for the post, as always dear polaris. in this case we just go hand in hand.
Well, but I have a question, too, regarding the link.
I just shortly overlooked the site (and post) but it seems that it offers good argumentation for convincing people who still deny the fact, impact and influence of and on and around climate change.
It is real, we caused it and it is too clearly seen now to overlook anymore.
So why would people still be sceptic? Who pays Fox news to broadcast documentations that would still calm down and deny the fact?
Who stands behind the propaganda that climate change is a hoax, another fear attack, so all very easy to fix.
-so gimme the next champagner breakfast for every one-
Haven't you noticed the weather recently?
Germany/ Europe is wide aware now. The subject is still on every paper every day while we have perfect spring time in the usually snowy February.
...so thanks polaris to pick up the subject again and again.
good work
greetings to kanada.
because acknowledging climate change comes with a personal price ... one that would require people to consider how their actions affect others and maybe asking people to make changes ...
for many - they don't want to face that situation - so, it is much much easier to deny the existence ...
I'm fully on board with this. I often fall into the trap of defending proper science and critical thinking against the fear mongers. Then I'm perceived to think that global climate change is not occurring or that I want nothing done about it.
uhh ... maybe if you didn't keep posting industry funded articles about man's effect on climate change - some of us wouldn't have that perception ...
uhh ... maybe if you didn't keep posting industry funded articles about man's effect on climate change - some of us wouldn't have that perception ...
Maybe if fear mongers took a class in critical thinking there wouldn't be a need. If the science is good it doesn't matter who funds it. Somehow this is lost on some. When they can't attack the science they attack the funding.
And stubborn people liek you and I always feel the need for the last word on the subject.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
because acknowledging climate change comes with a personal price ... one that would require people to consider how their actions affect others and maybe asking people to make changes ...
for many - they don't want to face that situation - so, it is much much easier to deny the existence ...
that answer I take ... good one so to say.
I started to blame the oil industry and their lobby and spokesmen,
but your conclusion is so much more convincing.
thanks for the great explanation, that just makes sense.
...and I was already assuming that it won't be easy to fix.....
there is no way to peace, peace is the way!
...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
Maybe if fear mongers took a class in critical thinking there wouldn't be a need. If the science is good it doesn't matter who funds it. Somehow this is lost on some. When they can't attack the science they attack the funding.
i apologize if that hit a nerve ...
but, the reality is that most of those articles posted are bad science ... it's been proven in courts and they aren't peer-reviewed ... so, really - in one sense you are absolutely correct ... if the science is sound - it shouldn't matter who funded it ... but the problem is that the science in many of those articles u posted is horrible ...
I started to blame the oil industry and their lobby and spokesmen,
but your conclusion is so much more convincing.
thanks for the great explanation, that just makes sense.
...and I was already assuming that it won't be easy to fix.....
My company I work for acknowledges environmental integrity and committment....by not meeting regulations are motto is too exceed them and we have on every aspect......
A 50 percent reduction should be attainable, and does seem like a small price to pay.
and i want to say that this is the attitude that will foster change ... also, although it probably didn't need to be said ... greenhouse gas emissions is the obvious reduction to anyone really paying attention ...
hey polaris, why don't you read my post EDIT: (new thread) and hit it up with some knowledge
thanks
getting around to it ... just fyi - obi once posted a thread when the ipcc report came out and i had the exact same sentiments ... time for debate is over ... action is what we should be discussing ...
My company I work for acknowledges environmental integrity and committment....by not meeting regulations are motto is too exceed them and we have on every aspect......
I know that many companies and especially companies that work for and with energy do already alot good things for the environment.
There is an awareness amongst many, even most and actions are done.
My saying was more or less ironic.
when saying: I started to blame the oil industry.
that meant: i do not do it already.
I just couldn't find a better answer myself.
But polaris gave it to me.
but p.s.
I saw the movie "the corporation", so I am a bit against our system and the big companies cause they are only guided and ruled by the thought of profit. So there is no humanity or other important value to be found anymore.
...all this I think is a development to the extreme, with no middle anymore.
So of course I would blame them first... but I do agree that they DO good things and try to make also profit out of this subject... and that is why I still have hope.
there is no way to peace, peace is the way!
...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
i posted it in another thread last week i believe but if you're asking i will post again.
i went 100% solar a year ago. i am not hooked to the grid. i bought a newer diesel that burns biodiesel. in the us; the government gives great tax breaks for solar conversion. so the costs are up there at first; but my system paid for itself already. now i'm making money by not having to pay for electricity.
i planted 21 trees last year (i just went and counted) but i think 3 died.
i remember reading that recently, so ill look it up b/c im pretty sure you posted links, right?
also, post it 100 times, that way more people will read it and maybe make a decision
you're a real hooker. im gonna slap you in public.
~Ron Burgundy
I saw the movie "the corporation", so I am a bit against our system and the big companies cause they are only guided and ruled by the thought of profit. So there is no humanity or other important value to be found anymore.
Humanity is supposed to be found in the individual and reflected as a consumer. People just seem to find it so much easier to point the finger (blame big business) than look inside.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Humanity is supposed to be found in the individual and reflected as a consumer. People just seem to find it so much easier to point the finger (blame big business) than look inside.
a flawed concept from the beginning tho...
big corporations like walmart can role into small towns, sell everything for less than the local stores, then drive them all out of business. with no competition they can jack up their prices again. And it happens in every industry.
The consumer has no say in the matter really, especially in small towns....
But this is about the environment, so....
Some guy, John Dewey I think, said politics is the shadow cast on society by big business. And he was right. State power functions to serve big business, as has always been the case. Pick an empire and you'll notice they all function basically the same way. State power primarily serves itself, but ultimately serves big business.
Which allows businiess to get away with all kinds of things, degradation of the environment for one, especially in the third world, where environmental restraints are basically non-existent.
big corporations like walmart can role into small towns, sell everything for less than the local stores, then drive them all out of business. with no competition they can jack up their prices again. And it happens in every industry.
The consumer has no say in the matter really, especially in small towns....
The consumer has every say in the matter. The consumer has 100% of the power.
Wal-Mart cannot sell anything for a lower price. It can only offer things for sale. If the consumer opts out of caring for humanity and decides that the bottom line is all they care about this is not Wal-Mart's fault. Wal-Mart will exploit it but only because the average individual doesn't care. Business will care about what we as individuals tell them to care about via our purchasing patterns.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
The consumer has every say in the matter. The consumer has 100% of the power.
Wal-Mart cannot sell anything for a lower price. It can only offer things for sale. If the consumer opts out of caring for humanity and decides that the bottom line is all they care about this is not Wal-Mart's fault. Wal-Mart will exploit it but only because the average individual doesn't care. Business will care about what we as individuals tell them to care about via our purchasing patterns.
the problem is that the average joe isn't educated about this,... and sometimes it's not necessarily their fault,...
you're a real hooker. im gonna slap you in public.
~Ron Burgundy
Hmm ... Honestly, its a bit hard to say. Perhaps anything we do should count as part of the natural cycle. Perhaps even if we do reduce emissions of methane, carbon dioxide, etc., the globe will still get warmer. Most current evidence suggests that we can slow the warming process by cleaning up our acts a bit, and to me, its worth a try. I dunno. Maybe Al Gore scared me more than he should have. IMHO, reducing emissions won't likely hurt us, and will quite likely help us, assuming that we do so in an economically sensible way. Anyhow, I don't want to be preachy. You raise good questions ... Not sure they can really be answered at this stage.
The consumer has every say in the matter. The consumer has 100% of the power.
Wal-Mart cannot sell anything for a lower price. It can only offer things for sale. If the consumer opts out of caring for humanity and decides that the bottom line is all they care about this is not Wal-Mart's fault. Wal-Mart will exploit it but only because the average individual doesn't care. Business will care about what we as individuals tell them to care about via our purchasing patterns.
sounds great in theory, but in practice the example i mentioned earlier happens to be the reality. The reason i mentioned small towns is people tend to make less money, and therefore go to places where the product is cheapest, places like wal-mart. Even if that means their buddies' store wil go out of business, simply because they can't afford to spend the extra buck buying from local businesses. So wal-mart or whatever steps in, creates the monopoly, and people end up paying more anyway. And dozens of local businesses dry up.
And that also assumes the market is controlled by the consumer, that products are a reflection of what the consumer wants, which may not be entirely accurate. Wants are often determined by industry, via advertising and so on...
Comments
who do you know in power that's enlightened?
if you follow the natural patterns the earth's cycle would be moving towards another ice age.
I don't...hence the quotations.....
this whole argument shouldn't be about whether we are causing warming or cooling,...
or even harsher weather,...
ALL WE DO IS ARGUE,... NOBODY KNOWS WHAT WILL HAPPEN! LET US START POSTING ABOUT THE THINGS WE HAVE DONE TO CHANGE WHAT WE FEEL IS THE BETTER!
it should be about people not being responsible and nobody holding them accountable. people are wasteful. people are careless. people are uninformed. people are LAZY.
~Ron Burgundy
someone post how affordable change is.
someone who bought a hybrid, someone who has a great energy saving tool, someone who planted 30 trees,...
let's stop arguing and start doing what we do know can change,...
~Ron Burgundy
i posted it in another thread last week i believe but if you're asking i will post again.
i went 100% solar a year ago. i am not hooked to the grid. i bought a newer diesel that burns biodiesel. in the us; the government gives great tax breaks for solar conversion. so the costs are up there at first; but my system paid for itself already. now i'm making money by not having to pay for electricity.
i planted 21 trees last year (i just went and counted) but i think 3 died.
I bought all energy star appliances (for the types of appliances you can at least)....
I recycle bottles/plastic all the time.....
When going to stores I pick up junk that is in my path and place it in the garbage.....some say I am gross but to me the look of garbage all over the place even a parking lot is more disgusting.....
I always turn off all my lights.....if not in the room why have the light on....
Turn off hot water heater/furnace when leaving home for extended period of time....
Just a few examples from me....
that is what we need to post about
each person will have something to add
the people who haven't done anything, someone from that crowd will think of something new
some genius in that crowd will develop a conscience and develop a new product
if you think that way and keep trying, we can change this world,...
*i am soon to buy a new air filter and cold air intake system as well as a new exaust system -improving fuel economy by close to 34%-
plus i get more HP, yeah!
~Ron Burgundy
i assumed your hypothetical was the emissions related to industry and vehicles and what not ...
you would see an decrease in the warming trend ... at which point glaciers may not melt and sea levels not rise ...
because acknowledging climate change comes with a personal price ... one that would require people to consider how their actions affect others and maybe asking people to make changes ...
for many - they don't want to face that situation - so, it is much much easier to deny the existence ...
uhh ... maybe if you didn't keep posting industry funded articles about man's effect on climate change - some of us wouldn't have that perception ...
And stubborn people liek you and I always feel the need for the last word on the subject.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
that answer I take ... good one so to say.
I started to blame the oil industry and their lobby and spokesmen,
but your conclusion is so much more convincing.
thanks for the great explanation, that just makes sense.
...and I was already assuming that it won't be easy to fix.....
...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
i apologize if that hit a nerve ...
but, the reality is that most of those articles posted are bad science ... it's been proven in courts and they aren't peer-reviewed ... so, really - in one sense you are absolutely correct ... if the science is sound - it shouldn't matter who funded it ... but the problem is that the science in many of those articles u posted is horrible ...
My company I work for acknowledges environmental integrity and committment....by not meeting regulations are motto is too exceed them and we have on every aspect......
thanks
~Ron Burgundy
and i want to say that this is the attitude that will foster change ... also, although it probably didn't need to be said ... greenhouse gas emissions is the obvious reduction to anyone really paying attention ...
getting around to it ... just fyi - obi once posted a thread when the ipcc report came out and i had the exact same sentiments ... time for debate is over ... action is what we should be discussing ...
I know that many companies and especially companies that work for and with energy do already alot good things for the environment.
There is an awareness amongst many, even most and actions are done.
My saying was more or less ironic.
when saying: I started to blame the oil industry.
that meant: i do not do it already.
I just couldn't find a better answer myself.
But polaris gave it to me.
but p.s.
I saw the movie "the corporation", so I am a bit against our system and the big companies cause they are only guided and ruled by the thought of profit. So there is no humanity or other important value to be found anymore.
...all this I think is a development to the extreme, with no middle anymore.
So of course I would blame them first...
...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
i remember reading that recently, so ill look it up b/c im pretty sure you posted links, right?
also, post it 100 times, that way more people will read it and maybe make a decision
~Ron Burgundy
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
a flawed concept from the beginning tho...
big corporations like walmart can role into small towns, sell everything for less than the local stores, then drive them all out of business. with no competition they can jack up their prices again. And it happens in every industry.
The consumer has no say in the matter really, especially in small towns....
But this is about the environment, so....
Some guy, John Dewey I think, said politics is the shadow cast on society by big business. And he was right. State power functions to serve big business, as has always been the case. Pick an empire and you'll notice they all function basically the same way. State power primarily serves itself, but ultimately serves big business.
Which allows businiess to get away with all kinds of things, degradation of the environment for one, especially in the third world, where environmental restraints are basically non-existent.
Wal-Mart cannot sell anything for a lower price. It can only offer things for sale. If the consumer opts out of caring for humanity and decides that the bottom line is all they care about this is not Wal-Mart's fault. Wal-Mart will exploit it but only because the average individual doesn't care. Business will care about what we as individuals tell them to care about via our purchasing patterns.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
the problem is that the average joe isn't educated about this,... and sometimes it's not necessarily their fault,...
~Ron Burgundy
Are they outside of that "natural cycle"?
How much of a decrease?
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Hmm ... Honestly, its a bit hard to say. Perhaps anything we do should count as part of the natural cycle. Perhaps even if we do reduce emissions of methane, carbon dioxide, etc., the globe will still get warmer. Most current evidence suggests that we can slow the warming process by cleaning up our acts a bit, and to me, its worth a try. I dunno. Maybe Al Gore scared me more than he should have. IMHO, reducing emissions won't likely hurt us, and will quite likely help us, assuming that we do so in an economically sensible way. Anyhow, I don't want to be preachy. You raise good questions ... Not sure they can really be answered at this stage.
for the most part - yes
as for decrease - i'm not exactly sure ... they have models ..
sounds great in theory, but in practice the example i mentioned earlier happens to be the reality. The reason i mentioned small towns is people tend to make less money, and therefore go to places where the product is cheapest, places like wal-mart. Even if that means their buddies' store wil go out of business, simply because they can't afford to spend the extra buck buying from local businesses. So wal-mart or whatever steps in, creates the monopoly, and people end up paying more anyway. And dozens of local businesses dry up.
And that also assumes the market is controlled by the consumer, that products are a reflection of what the consumer wants, which may not be entirely accurate. Wants are often determined by industry, via advertising and so on...