ok ... "global" is probably inaccurate as we here in the west continue to enjoy cheap food ...
my main point here is that climate change has an impact on food
FFG's main point here is that technology could be used to reduce the impact of climate-changes upon global-food-supplies,... which is certainly a valid contribution to the discussion.
the issue at hand is maximizing what resources are available while simultaneously minimizing the detrimental effects of such extractions, and really such a conversation has yet to occur in the trials and tribulations of world-historical government. sadly the foremost task of simply gaining power is so overwhelming as to distract even the best and brightest candidates from guiding our world-cultures towards the thoughts necessary for sparking the imminent changes that are needed to establish sustainable societies and civilization.
we don’t know just where our bones will rest,
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
ok, but perhaps what you are actually describing is a government more closely related to what can be described as "communist", as opposed to "socialist". this is a distinction that seems to be mistaken many times in today's american political scene/environment, mostly because pundits are too afraid to lose their jobs over key-words and politicians are too vulnerable to expose themselves to criticism(s) for speaking about such ideas [aka the failure of democracy in america]...
In all reality, "communist" and "socialist" are two terms that have been rendered pretty meaningless. I am referring more to traditional communistic systems.
what [whom] is to say a socialist government couldnt make such decision wisely, both with the tact of a capitalist and the compassion of a communist,....??
History and philosophy, primarily. Such governments typically end up making very bad decisions for very bad reasons.
this is where POLARIS has you on your knees in this discussion, because A: New Orleans is a prime example of immature [unintelligent/-visionary] social-development occurring at the hands of the randomness of historical-progression, and B: because the industrial-solutions to such developmental problems were not appropriately invested-in, either privately or governmentally, and therefore pure-capitalism is open to easy-criticism for failing to protect and provide for the citizenry at large.
I never suggested that pure capitalism isn't open to easy criticism. It's very open to easy criticism. A capitalistic structure certainly doesn't guarantee good investment. In fact, it guarantees some bad investment.
And I don't think polaris and I are disagreeing on much in terms of New Orleans. New Orleans, geographically, is a stupid place for a city. Regardless, however, it is a place that can support a city with the correct technology. Bangledesh is a stupid place for a country, all things considered. It too, however, is a place for that can support a country with the correct technology.
a merging of the polarized economic-forces is first necessary to effectively advance the nature of cultural-development throughout the world.
Yeah, we already have that. It's called Keynesianism and is the economic foundation for most of the West.
In all reality, "communist" and "socialist" are two terms that have been rendered pretty meaningless. I am referring more to traditional communistic systems.
ok, so that is a distinction i would like to resurrect, because otherwise Marxism is lost to the vagueries of insufficient interpretation.
I never suggested that pure capitalism isn't open to easy criticism. It's very open to easy criticism. A capitalistic structure certainly doesn't guarantee good investment. In fact, it guarantees some bad investment.
And I don't think polaris and I are disagreeing on much in terms of New Orleans. New Orleans, geographically, is a stupid place for a city. Regardless, however, it is a place that can support a city with the correct technology. Bangledesh is a stupid place for a country, all things considered. It too, however, is a place for that can support a country with the correct technology.
ok cool, i too agree with the both of you on this. however, leaving cultural-development to the forces of market-investment and privatization lessens both the efficiency and ergo the effectiveness of a society's growth, and so i think there ultimately needs to be some moderate degree of unified-oversight [aka "government"] to ensure that appropriate nation-building occurs.
I'm done with this discussion. Let me just add a big thanks you for turning a thread about the tragedy in Burma into a lets piss on the US thread. Classy indeed.
Oh yes, I am solely to blame... all I did was point out one of the biggest potential donors giving excuses not to give. Am I not entitled to mention that... and suddenly I'm simply pissing on the US? We're not allowed mention anything bad the US do and it's only cos we hate the US... what a lazy way to nullify a perfectly good point! :mad: If it were France or Britain I'd say the exact same fucking thing so get over it. I wasn't just arguing with myself you know... so you had a hand in it too :rolleyes:
Anyway, yes, back to burma :(
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Mother nature doing what it does and the fact that this country is run by the people that it is does not mean that things like this won't happen again. They should let others help but that is a problem when you rule with the iron fist. Poor locals have to deal with the shitheads in power. Wonder if the money (cold cash) actually gets to where it should?
I also heard the powers that be didn't give anybody any warning about the incoming storm.
a good friend has a friend organizing relief for a village in papua new guinea ... it is being co-ordinated by an outdoor adventure company there ... i've given some money and hope that it will get to that village as it also was devastated by a storm in previous months ...
point being is that the red tape seems to be lifted and the only concern is getting the money!! ...
the most fucked up thing is that there are groups that train for this and can be on the ground usually in 48 hours ... at the very least to provide medical services and start getting clean water ...
Comments
FFG's main point here is that technology could be used to reduce the impact of climate-changes upon global-food-supplies,... which is certainly a valid contribution to the discussion.
the issue at hand is maximizing what resources are available while simultaneously minimizing the detrimental effects of such extractions, and really such a conversation has yet to occur in the trials and tribulations of world-historical government. sadly the foremost task of simply gaining power is so overwhelming as to distract even the best and brightest candidates from guiding our world-cultures towards the thoughts necessary for sparking the imminent changes that are needed to establish sustainable societies and civilization.
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
In all reality, "communist" and "socialist" are two terms that have been rendered pretty meaningless. I am referring more to traditional communistic systems.
History and philosophy, primarily. Such governments typically end up making very bad decisions for very bad reasons.
I never suggested that pure capitalism isn't open to easy criticism. It's very open to easy criticism. A capitalistic structure certainly doesn't guarantee good investment. In fact, it guarantees some bad investment.
And I don't think polaris and I are disagreeing on much in terms of New Orleans. New Orleans, geographically, is a stupid place for a city. Regardless, however, it is a place that can support a city with the correct technology. Bangledesh is a stupid place for a country, all things considered. It too, however, is a place for that can support a country with the correct technology.
Yeah, we already have that. It's called Keynesianism and is the economic foundation for most of the West.
ok, so that is a distinction i would like to resurrect, because otherwise Marxism is lost to the vagueries of insufficient interpretation.
fair enough, but this is a generalization and a very pessimistic one at that.
ok cool, i too agree with the both of you on this. however, leaving cultural-development to the forces of market-investment and privatization lessens both the efficiency and ergo the effectiveness of a society's growth, and so i think there ultimately needs to be some moderate degree of unified-oversight [aka "government"] to ensure that appropriate nation-building occurs.
as, say,.. a pluralistic ["Dialectic"] form of Adam Smith and Karl Marx..?? i say, let us see some more of that!!
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
Anyway, yes, back to burma :(
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I also heard the powers that be didn't give anybody any warning about the incoming storm.
point being is that the red tape seems to be lifted and the only concern is getting the money!! ...
the most fucked up thing is that there are groups that train for this and can be on the ground usually in 48 hours ... at the very least to provide medical services and start getting clean water ...
It took time, but this is good news
sanity prevails...