Socilism isn't the reason 20,000 people are dead. Nature is. Granted those people could have given up their freedom, concetrated power on a federal level, utilized capitalism and maybe fewer of them would have died. I will give you that-socialism in many cases hinders the development of technology. But so does the US gov't.
When a world superpower decides a system is not to be tolerated, it isn't tolerated, and in very few cases it succeeds.
This has very little to do with society and very much to do with nature.
Socilism isn't the reason 20,000 people are dead. Nature is. Granted those people could have given up their freedom, concetrated power on a federal level, utilized capitalism and maybe fewer of them would have died. I will give you that-socialism in many cases hinders the development of technology. But so does the US gov't.
When a world superpower decides a system is not to be tolerated, it isn't tolerated, and in very few cases it succeeds.
This has very little to do with society and very much to do with nature.
Your argument implies that two societies, given the same natural event, suffer equal costs. You may want to rethink that argument.
Granted those people could have given up their freedom, concetrated power on a federal level, utilized capitalism and maybe fewer of them would have died.
When a world superpower decides a system is not to be tolerated, it isn't tolerated, and in very few cases it succeeds.
this is a solid point, Commy, and one which reflects the ongoing immaturity of American society. ideas are not to be feared, but possess value in their potentials to be utilized. the theme works both ways: socialism as a theory that attempts to better provide for the majority of a society's individual members, and capitalism as a cohesive process that allows for production and trade to exist, grow, and flow between the various individuals of a given society.
until the demonization of each socio-political concept of wealth-distribution/interaction is halted and dissolved then the truly progressive need of integrating these two historical phenomena shall remain stalled, and likewise incidents such as the devastation of this Natural disaster shall be prolonged and magnified. it's sad really, but a little bit of compromise and understanding can go farther than most people imagine.
we don’t know just where our bones will rest,
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
this is a solid point, Commy, and one which reflects the ongoing immaturity of American society. ideas are not to be feared, but possess value in their potentials to be utilized. the theme works both ways: socialism as a theory that attempts to better provide for the majority of a society's individual members, and capitalism as a cohesive process that allows for production and trade to exist, grow, and flow between the various individuals of a given society.
until the demonization of each socio-political concept of wealth-distribution/interaction is halted and dissolved then the truly progressive need of integrating these two historical phenomena shall remain stalled, and likewise incidents such as the devastation of this Natural disaster shall be prolonged and magnified. it's sad really, but a little bit of compromise and understanding can go farther than most people imagine.
I've been thinking the same thing about the co-existing of socialism and capitalism, lately. (although, it wasn't so well worded and smart sounding when it was rambling through my head )
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
this is a solid point, Commy, and one which reflects the ongoing immaturity of American society. ideas are not to be feared, but possess value in their potentials to be utilized. the theme works both ways: socialism as a theory that attempts to better provide for the majority of a society's individual members, and capitalism as a cohesive process that allows for production and trade to exist, grow, and flow between the various individuals of a given society.
until the demonization of each socio-political concept of wealth-distribution/interaction is halted and dissolved then the truly progressive need of integrating these two historical phenomena shall remain stalled, and likewise incidents such as the devastation of this Natural disaster shall be prolonged and magnified. it's sad really, but a little bit of compromise and understanding can go farther than most people imagine.
well said. It seems any example of an alternative to the status quo is dealt with violently, even internally. Waco comes to mind.
for sure. We need to explore the possibility of alternatives. And take what we can from each.
The United States, which has slapped economic sanctions on the country, said it likewise stood ready. The U.S. Embassy is providing $250,000 in immediate aid from existing emergency fund. But first lady Laura Bush said Monday the U.S. would provide further aid only if one of its own disaster teams is allowed into the country.
:mad: all the fucking conditions and excuses!
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Verona??? it's all surmountable
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I have to say though, regardless of the Burmese reaction to the aid sent, it looks like the international community were actually on top of it for once
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
this is a solid point, Commy, and one which reflects the ongoing immaturity of American society. ideas are not to be feared, but possess value in their potentials to be utilized. the theme works both ways: socialism as a theory that attempts to better provide for the majority of a society's individual members, and capitalism as a cohesive process that allows for production and trade to exist, grow, and flow between the various individuals of a given society.
until the demonization of each socio-political concept of wealth-distribution/interaction is halted and dissolved then the truly progressive need of integrating these two historical phenomena shall remain stalled, and likewise incidents such as the devastation of this Natural disaster shall be prolonged and magnified. it's sad really, but a little bit of compromise and understanding can go farther than most people imagine.
Nice post It's like everything... ya need balance!
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
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Well in this case I agree with our government. They want to make sure that the aid goes to the people who need it. The government of Burma has already shown it's absolute disregard for it's people. What is to stop them from hoarding all the aid that is sent to Burma and not use it where it is most needed.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Well in this case I agree with our government. They want to make sure that the aid goes to the people who need it. The government of Burma has already shown it's absolute disregard for it's people. What is to stop them from hoarding all the aid that is sent to Burma and not use it where it is most needed.
What's wrong with it going in with the UN? I didn't think all the aid companies will just hand the food directly to the Burmese government?
I've just finished reading 'shake hands with the devil' by Romeo Dallaire and this excuse just sounds like every other single little excuse given by so many governments as to why they couldn't give aid. All the while almost a million people were dying on the ground
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
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What's wrong with it going in with the UN? I didn't think all the aid companies will just hand the food directly to the Burmese government?
I've just finished reading 'shake hands with the devil' by Romeo Dallaire and this excuse just sounds like every other single little excuse given by so many governments as to why they couldn't give aid. All the while almost a million people were dying on the ground
Well it seems that the Burmese government isn't even letting the UN rescue workers into their country.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
so ... whether one wants to believe this is yet another example of extreme weather due to global climate change or not ... this shows what the potential impacts are if we continue to alter the world's global weather patterns ...
if death tolls reach the estimated 100,000 mark - that would be over 30x the casualties from 9/11 - because of 9/11, how much has the gov't spent to supposedly try and prevent further 9/11s??
They're letting them in slowly now... but that 250,000 they pledged (250,000 :eek: ) would have hardly gone straight into the hands of the government anyway, would it?
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
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They're letting them in slowly now... but that 250,000 they pledged (250,000 :eek: ) would have hardly gone straight into the hands of the government anyway, would it?
You never know though. Look what happened in Somolia in the 1990s. The UN was sending aid and the militias/gangs where stealing all the food and hoarding it for themselves. I'm not saying that the Burmese government would definitely do this but by having our own aid workers there you are assured that it will not happen and that the much needed food, water and medical aid will reach those that need it.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Do you then see the contradiction in your post. On the one hand you're saying that they could have a better social structure leading to less deaths, on the other you're blaming "nature" for the deathtoll.
You never know though. Look what happened in Somolia in the 1990s. The UN was sending aid and the militias/gangs where stealing all the food and hoarding it for themselves. I'm not saying that the Burmese government would definitely do this but by having our own aid workers there you are assured that it will not happen and that the much needed food, water and medical aid will reach those that need it.
No I understand that... but I thought they've learned lessons from that. The UN have their own emergency relief fund and personnel and I thought most money gets channeled through the aid groups? If you give the money to the UN you're not giving it to the government but you dont' have to insist it's your own team going in. . It's' the US making demands like this, even in times of crisis and tragedy that actually lets them off the hook in terms of paying... and contributes to the reasons other nationality's look down on the US foreign policy. Like every other country immediately donates a certain amount of money towards the humanitarian relief... but somehow the US has to bring up the politics during a situation like this
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
so ... whether one wants to believe this is yet another example of extreme weather due to global climate change or not ... this shows what the potential impacts are if we continue to alter the world's global weather patterns ...
The opposite lesson here is far more important: eschew technology and suffer the consequences. Climate change or no climate change, developing nations will face hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, and other natural disasters just like they always have. And these developing nations will continue to suffer devestating death tolls so long as their economies are being ravaged by governmental mismanagement, protectionist trade policies, and excessive influence from foreign leaders.
In terms of people dying at the hands of Mother Nature's worst, I'd much rather see excessive greenhouse gas output from places like Burma than minimized greenhouse gas output from Western nations.
No I understand that... but I thought they've learned lessons from that. The UN have their own emergency relief fund and personnel and I thought most money gets channeled through the aid groups? If you give the money to the UN you're not giving it to the government but you dont' have to insist it's your own team going in. . It's' the US making demands like this, even in times of crisis and tragedy that actually lets them off the hook in terms of paying... and contributes to the reasons other nationality's look down on the US foreign policy. Like every other country immediately donates a certain amount of money towards the humanitarian relief... but somehow the US has to bring up the politics during a situation like this
Look I will be the first to criticize the US when we do something wrong but when it comes to providing funding for relief aid to foreign nations the US, both the government and the public, donate the most in the world. Yes the percentage of our GDP is lower than what other countries donate, but in shear dollar amounts no one comes close. This is one area where you have no factual basis to actually criticize this country.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Look I will be the first to criticize the US when we do something wrong but when it comes to providing funding for relief aid to foreign nations the US, both the government and the public, donate the most in the world. Yes the percentage of our GDP is lower than what other countries donate, but in shear dollar amounts no one comes close. This is one area where you have no factual basis to actually criticize this country.
250,000 from a country with a population of 260 million? Compared to our 1million EURO INITIAL contribution for a population of 4 million... most countries contributed at least a million... even china have given 2 million. I'm sick of this 'we give more' crap and this argument comes up time and time again... FACT is the US is one of the LOWEST contributors as a percentage of GDP AND per head of population of the Western countries... of COURSE our population which is 50 times smaller than yours won't be giving as much. Do we have to give 50 times more in order to shut you up?
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
The opposite lesson here is far more important: eschew technology and suffer the consequences. Climate change or no climate change, developing nations will face hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, and other natural disasters just like they always have. And these developing nations will continue to suffer devestating death tolls so long as their economies are being ravaged by governmental mismanagement, protectionist trade policies, and excessive influence from foreign leaders.
In terms of people dying at the hands of Mother Nature's worst, I'd much rather see excessive greenhouse gas output from places like Burma than minimized greenhouse gas output from Western nations.
but some countries are poor ... what are they supposed to do?
i don't get your second point ... both scenarios suck
but some countries are poor ... what are they supposed to do?
Umm...become not poor. Burma isn't "poor", it's people are. Burma is resource-rich and, 50 years ago, was on pace to be where eastern nations like Japan are in terms of development. Unfortunately, they suffered an internal revolution and their people have been oppressed by 50 years of thug rule and socialist economic mismangement.
i don't get your second point ... both scenarios suck
Both scenarios don't suck. Certainly the West can do much in terms of lessening our impact on the climate. But doing so isn't going to prevent hurricanes from hitting Burma today or in the future. Global warming didn't invent the hurricane, and these nations are going to suffer these kinds of disasters regardless of any kind of climate change. What is important is how equipped the people of these nations are to deal with climate change and regular natural disasters caused by that change or by existing climate factors. Nations that rely on technology, even if it involves CO2 emitting energy sources, are far better prepared to deal with these kind of events than those who are producing no CO2 because they live in glorified huts without any electricity.
250,000 from a country with a population of 260 million? Compared to our 1million EURO INITIAL contribution for a population of 4 million... most countries contributed at least a million... even china have given 2 million. I'm sick of this 'we give more' crap and this argument comes up time and time again... FACT is the US is one of the LOWEST contributors as a percentage of GDP AND per head of population of the Western countries... of COURSE our population which is 50 times smaller than yours won't be giving as much. Do we have to give 50 times more in order to shut you up?
Initial aid offered we are ready to contribute millions more. Also who cares about GDP when we gives ten times more in shear dollars than any other country. You don't have to give anything but don't sit there pretending that we don't do our part in foreign relief aid when we do just as much as everyone else. Like I said I will be the first to point out when my government is wrong but I pretty fucking sick and tired of all this the US doesn't help anyone bullshit. Even when countries like Iran need help we are one of the first to offer any help we can.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Initial aid offered we are ready to contribute millions more. Also who cares about GDP when we gives ten times more in shear dollars than any other country. You don't have to give anything but don't sit there pretending that we don't do our part in foreign relief aid when we do just as much as everyone else. Like I said I will be the first to point out when my government is wrong but I pretty fucking sick and tired of all this the US doesn't help anyone bullshit. Even when countries like Iran need help we are one of the first to offer any help we can.
I never said you never do anything... but let's face it, you're the richest country, in a better position than ANY other country in the world to help out and yet you give the minimum every time :( and then go on about how generous you are
Please read shake hands with the devil... it's infuriating... and it's not just the US... France and Belgium got a worse telling off in that book... but it's the major RICH countries in general... who sit around their meeting tables discussing how much this country is worth... how much those lives are worth! Apparently it would have taken 85,000 Rwandan deaths to justify the loss of one american peacekeepers life :eek:
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I never said you never do anything... but let's face it, you're the richest country, in a better position than ANY other country in the world to help out and yet you give the minimum every time :( and then go on about how generous you are
The minimum is zero. And to be frank, it seems a little silly to complain about US aid from a place partly rebuilt with US aid less than a century ago. Certainly the US can do more, but so could every country, including your own. Looking a gift horse in the mouth is not only classless, but it's behavior fit for a child.
I never said you never do anything... but let's face it, you're the richest country, in a better position than ANY other country in the world to help out and yet you give the minimum every time :( and then go on about how generous you are
Please read shake hands with the devil... it's infuriating... and it's not just the US... France and Belgium got a worse telling off in that book... but it's the major RICH countries in general... who sit around their meeting tables discussing how much this country is worth... how much those lives are worth! Apparently it would have taken 85,000 Rwandan deaths to justify the loss of one american peacekeepers life :eek:
I realize that my nation has many instances of inaction, specifically Rwanda, but not to sound childish I didn't see Irish troops running in their to help out the Rwandians either. The US can definitely do more to aid those in need around the world but to say we do the minimum is absolutely untrue and ridiculous. As farfromglorified the minimum would be to do nothing and we go far beyond that as numbers would indicated. So the amount we give compared to our GDP is lower than Ireland's. I'm sure the people receiving the aid are not complaining that the millions upon million of dollars that we give every year is only a fraction of our GDP.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
The minimum is zero. And to be frank, it seems a little silly to complain about US aid from a place partly rebuilt with US aid less than a century ago. Certainly the US can do more, but so could every country, including your own. Looking a gift horse in the mouth is not only classless, but it's behavior fit for a child.
I agree every country could do more... but every country aren't saying they give the most and how wonderful they are. We could all do more... I admit that no problem. Now can you do the same :rolleyes:
I'm not having this bloody argument again, it's ridiculous... any time I mention anything all ya get is 'the US gives more than any other country' :rolleyes: be realistic
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I agree every country could do more... but every country aren't saying they give the most and how wonderful they are. We could all do more... I admit that no problem. Now can you do the same :rolleyes:
I'm not having this bloody argument again, it's ridiculous... any time I mention anything all ya get is 'the US gives more than any other country' :rolleyes: be realistic
This seems to be your problem more than anyone else's. I don't see people here running around glorifying the US's giving to the point that they don't see any flaws with it. To say that the US as a nation gives more in aid than anyone else is to speak a fact. Conversely, to say that we give less per-capita or as a % of GDP than many is to also speak a fact. Neither of those facts equates to the US being "wonderful" or "miserly". You can sit around all day and argue silly subjectives, or you can just applaud any nation that willingly gives to help another nation out. You seem to relish any opportunity to chastise US giving, and that's pretty sad.
This seems to be your problem more than anyone else's. I don't see people here running around glorifying the US's giving to the point that they don't see any flaws with it. To say that the US as a nation gives more in aid than anyone else is to speak a fact. Conversely, to say that we give less per-capita or as a % of GDP than many is to also speak a fact. Neither of those facts equates to the US being "wonderful" or "miserly". You can sit around all day and argue silly subjectives, or you can just applaud any nation that willingly gives to help another nation out. You seem to relish any opportunity to chastise US giving, and that's pretty sad.
My 'chastising' is usually in response to something ridiculous that was said about the US being the most generous country in the world. I've said where I'm coming from on this, having just read that book and getting frustrated with the amount of times BIG economies (not just the US) give their reasons for giving less money while all the time people are dying. It's no help to anyone to bring up politics now. Just give the fucking money needed to save peoples lives.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I agree every country could do more... but every country aren't saying they give the most and how wonderful they are. We could all do more... I admit that no problem. Now can you do the same :rolleyes:
I'm not having this bloody argument again, it's ridiculous... any time I mention anything all ya get is 'the US gives more than any other country' :rolleyes: be realistic
We only start up with that defense when someone starts up with the US should do more. I don't see anyone on this thread proudly stating how much we gave. We give and that's that. We don't expect a medal or a thanks for it. Yet some people just like to pick on every fucking thing we do. It's old and tiresome.
You want to throw out stats. During the Tsunami relief effort the total US contribution, government and private, was $2.5 billion. Every other country that contributed, both government and private, had a total combined contribution of $3.4 billion. Nearly 70% of all the food assistance to the affected regions came from the US.
In the same fiscal year, as the tsunami, the US contributions accounted for 14% (second largest donor) of the U.N. Office for the Coordination, 22% of the UN budget was donated by the US (largest donor), 56% of the World Food Program budget, $72 million and $94 million to the Food and Agriculture Organization and the World Health Organization, respectively.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Comments
When a world superpower decides a system is not to be tolerated, it isn't tolerated, and in very few cases it succeeds.
This has very little to do with society and very much to do with nature.
Your argument implies that two societies, given the same natural event, suffer equal costs. You may want to rethink that argument.
this is a solid point, Commy, and one which reflects the ongoing immaturity of American society. ideas are not to be feared, but possess value in their potentials to be utilized. the theme works both ways: socialism as a theory that attempts to better provide for the majority of a society's individual members, and capitalism as a cohesive process that allows for production and trade to exist, grow, and flow between the various individuals of a given society.
until the demonization of each socio-political concept of wealth-distribution/interaction is halted and dissolved then the truly progressive need of integrating these two historical phenomena shall remain stalled, and likewise incidents such as the devastation of this Natural disaster shall be prolonged and magnified. it's sad really, but a little bit of compromise and understanding can go farther than most people imagine.
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
I've been thinking the same thing about the co-existing of socialism and capitalism, lately. (although, it wasn't so well worded and smart sounding when it was rambling through my head
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
for sure. We need to explore the possibility of alternatives. And take what we can from each.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I have to say though, regardless of the Burmese reaction to the aid sent, it looks like the international community were actually on top of it for once
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Well in this case I agree with our government. They want to make sure that the aid goes to the people who need it. The government of Burma has already shown it's absolute disregard for it's people. What is to stop them from hoarding all the aid that is sent to Burma and not use it where it is most needed.
I've just finished reading 'shake hands with the devil' by Romeo Dallaire and this excuse just sounds like every other single little excuse given by so many governments as to why they couldn't give aid. All the while almost a million people were dying on the ground
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Well it seems that the Burmese government isn't even letting the UN rescue workers into their country.
if death tolls reach the estimated 100,000 mark - that would be over 30x the casualties from 9/11 - because of 9/11, how much has the gov't spent to supposedly try and prevent further 9/11s??
maybe there are other uses of that money?
They're letting them in slowly now... but that 250,000 they pledged (250,000 :eek: ) would have hardly gone straight into the hands of the government anyway, would it?
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
You never know though. Look what happened in Somolia in the 1990s. The UN was sending aid and the militias/gangs where stealing all the food and hoarding it for themselves. I'm not saying that the Burmese government would definitely do this but by having our own aid workers there you are assured that it will not happen and that the much needed food, water and medical aid will reach those that need it.
Do you then see the contradiction in your post. On the one hand you're saying that they could have a better social structure leading to less deaths, on the other you're blaming "nature" for the deathtoll.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
The opposite lesson here is far more important: eschew technology and suffer the consequences. Climate change or no climate change, developing nations will face hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, and other natural disasters just like they always have. And these developing nations will continue to suffer devestating death tolls so long as their economies are being ravaged by governmental mismanagement, protectionist trade policies, and excessive influence from foreign leaders.
In terms of people dying at the hands of Mother Nature's worst, I'd much rather see excessive greenhouse gas output from places like Burma than minimized greenhouse gas output from Western nations.
Look I will be the first to criticize the US when we do something wrong but when it comes to providing funding for relief aid to foreign nations the US, both the government and the public, donate the most in the world. Yes the percentage of our GDP is lower than what other countries donate, but in shear dollar amounts no one comes close. This is one area where you have no factual basis to actually criticize this country.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1689081,00.html
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
but some countries are poor ... what are they supposed to do?
i don't get your second point ... both scenarios suck
Umm...become not poor. Burma isn't "poor", it's people are. Burma is resource-rich and, 50 years ago, was on pace to be where eastern nations like Japan are in terms of development. Unfortunately, they suffered an internal revolution and their people have been oppressed by 50 years of thug rule and socialist economic mismangement.
Both scenarios don't suck. Certainly the West can do much in terms of lessening our impact on the climate. But doing so isn't going to prevent hurricanes from hitting Burma today or in the future. Global warming didn't invent the hurricane, and these nations are going to suffer these kinds of disasters regardless of any kind of climate change. What is important is how equipped the people of these nations are to deal with climate change and regular natural disasters caused by that change or by existing climate factors. Nations that rely on technology, even if it involves CO2 emitting energy sources, are far better prepared to deal with these kind of events than those who are producing no CO2 because they live in glorified huts without any electricity.
Initial aid offered we are ready to contribute millions more. Also who cares about GDP when we gives ten times more in shear dollars than any other country. You don't have to give anything but don't sit there pretending that we don't do our part in foreign relief aid when we do just as much as everyone else. Like I said I will be the first to point out when my government is wrong but I pretty fucking sick and tired of all this the US doesn't help anyone bullshit. Even when countries like Iran need help we are one of the first to offer any help we can.
Please read shake hands with the devil... it's infuriating... and it's not just the US... France and Belgium got a worse telling off in that book... but it's the major RICH countries in general... who sit around their meeting tables discussing how much this country is worth... how much those lives are worth! Apparently it would have taken 85,000 Rwandan deaths to justify the loss of one american peacekeepers life :eek:
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
The minimum is zero. And to be frank, it seems a little silly to complain about US aid from a place partly rebuilt with US aid less than a century ago. Certainly the US can do more, but so could every country, including your own. Looking a gift horse in the mouth is not only classless, but it's behavior fit for a child.
I realize that my nation has many instances of inaction, specifically Rwanda, but not to sound childish I didn't see Irish troops running in their to help out the Rwandians either. The US can definitely do more to aid those in need around the world but to say we do the minimum is absolutely untrue and ridiculous. As farfromglorified the minimum would be to do nothing and we go far beyond that as numbers would indicated. So the amount we give compared to our GDP is lower than Ireland's. I'm sure the people receiving the aid are not complaining that the millions upon million of dollars that we give every year is only a fraction of our GDP.
I'm not having this bloody argument again, it's ridiculous... any time I mention anything all ya get is 'the US gives more than any other country' :rolleyes: be realistic
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2676
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
This seems to be your problem more than anyone else's. I don't see people here running around glorifying the US's giving to the point that they don't see any flaws with it. To say that the US as a nation gives more in aid than anyone else is to speak a fact. Conversely, to say that we give less per-capita or as a % of GDP than many is to also speak a fact. Neither of those facts equates to the US being "wonderful" or "miserly". You can sit around all day and argue silly subjectives, or you can just applaud any nation that willingly gives to help another nation out. You seem to relish any opportunity to chastise US giving, and that's pretty sad.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
We only start up with that defense when someone starts up with the US should do more. I don't see anyone on this thread proudly stating how much we gave. We give and that's that. We don't expect a medal or a thanks for it. Yet some people just like to pick on every fucking thing we do. It's old and tiresome.
You want to throw out stats. During the Tsunami relief effort the total US contribution, government and private, was $2.5 billion. Every other country that contributed, both government and private, had a total combined contribution of $3.4 billion. Nearly 70% of all the food assistance to the affected regions came from the US.
In the same fiscal year, as the tsunami, the US contributions accounted for 14% (second largest donor) of the U.N. Office for the Coordination, 22% of the UN budget was donated by the US (largest donor), 56% of the World Food Program budget, $72 million and $94 million to the Food and Agriculture Organization and the World Health Organization, respectively.