Hate crimes??

Staceb10

I'm interested in getting some feedback on this little scenario.


A group of friends..Six boys aged 19/20 who are all white ..are all playing football with a group of about 20 other boys who are all black aged 16-18 at the local high school. Some of the boys in Group 2 play football for that school and they all get together on the weekends and play at the school. Group 1 and Group 2 are getting along just fine, the game is played, everyone is about to leave. A boy in Group 2 for an unexplained reason ends up punching a boy in Group 1 in the face. The boy that got punched basically walks away. Then another boy in Group 2 tries to fight with someone else from Group 1 and about 10-12 of the boys from Group 2 end up "jumping" 4 of the boys from Group 1..2 of them left when the fighting began. Now keep in mind that the boys from Group 1 did not instigate or even know why the boys in Group 2 were attacking them. Also when the boys from Group 2 started the fighting they said "Let's get these white boys". The police were called and finally showed up about 10 mins afterwards. Not one time to anyone mention the word "hate crime" or even seem real concerned with the situation.

Do you think this would qualify as a "hate crime"? Do you think it would if it was a group of white guys attacking a group of black guys?

Ahnimus

With my definition neither would be considered a hate crime independent of already being crimes.

Collin

Staceb10 wrote:

I'm interested in getting some feedback on this little scenario.


A group of friends..Six boys aged 19/20 who are all white ..are all playing football with a group of about 20 other boys who are all black aged 16-18 at the local high school. Some of the boys in Group 2 play football for that school and they all get together on the weekends and play at the school. Group 1 and Group 2 are getting along just fine, the game is played, everyone is about to leave. A boy in Group 2 for an unexplained reason ends up punching a boy in Group 1 in the face. The boy that got punched basically walks away. Then another boy in Group 2 tries to fight with someone else from Group 1 and about 10-12 of the boys from Group 2 end up "jumping" 4 of the boys from Group 1..2 of them left when the fighting began. Now keep in mind that the boys from Group 1 did not instigate or even know why the boys in Group 2 were attacking them. Also when the boys from Group 2 started the fighting they said "Let's get these white boys". The police were called and finally showed up about 10 mins afterwards. Not one time to anyone mention the word "hate crime" or even seem real concerned with the situation.

Do you think this would qualify as a "hate crime"? Do you think it would if it was a group of white guys attacking a group of black guys would it then considered a "hate crime"?

I think neither scenario's would be hate crimes, however I don't know the details...

The media, however, might call the second scenario a hate crime.

Staceb10

I understand that the fighting in and of itself is a crime. I just have issues with the whole "hate crime" label.

Uncle Leo

I am one PCer that does not like "hate crime" legislation. A crime is a crime.

Your scenarios may both be hate crimes in practical and moral terms, but legally I think the key is the word "crime."

blackredyellow

I'm not expert on the actual law, but my understanding of a hate crime is when a crime is committed because the race, gender, sexuality, etc of the person being attacked is the sole reason for them being attacked.

A neighborhood football game wih 19-20 year olds seems to me to enough reasons of it's own to cause a brawl.

Staceb10

blackredyellow wrote:

I'm not expert on the actual law, but my understanding of a hate crime is when a crime is committed because the race, gender, sexuality, etc of the person being attacked is the sole reason for them being attacked.

A neighborhood football game wih 19-20 year olds seems to me to enough reasons of it's own to cause a brawl.

Its not really a "neighboorhood" football game. The two groups did not know each other at all. And the one group of boys specifically started a fight without any provocation after saying "lets get these white boys". Now, I'm not saying I think this is a hate crime but I'm pretty damn sure if the dynamics had been the other way around that would be what everyone would be calling it.

lalalalaaaaaaaa

Staceb10 wrote:

I'm interested in getting some feedback on this little scenario.


A group of friends..Six boys aged 19/20 who are all white ..are all playing football with a group of about 20 other boys who are all black aged 16-18 at the local high school. Some of the boys in Group 2 play football for that school and they all get together on the weekends and play at the school. Group 1 and Group 2 are getting along just fine, the game is played, everyone is about to leave. A boy in Group 2 for an unexplained reason ends up punching a boy in Group 1 in the face. The boy that got punched basically walks away. Then another boy in Group 2 tries to fight with someone else from Group 1 and about 10-12 of the boys from Group 2 end up "jumping" 4 of the boys from Group 1..2 of them left when the fighting began. Now keep in mind that the boys from Group 1 did not instigate or even know why the boys in Group 2 were attacking them. Also when the boys from Group 2 started the fighting they said "Let's get these white boys". The police were called and finally showed up about 10 mins afterwards. Not one time to anyone mention the word "hate crime" or even seem real concerned with the situation.

Do you think this would qualify as a "hate crime"? Do you think it would if it was a group of white guys attacking a group of black guys?

There's not really enough information in this scenario to determine whether or not it's a hate crime. I'd say there's a good chance, but I can't say for sure.

But obviously your real question is "do hate crime laws unfairly favor non-white people?" And the answer is no.

Look at the statistics. Everyone is a potential victim for a hate crime. The laws make sense, and so do the results.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004885.html

Collin

Staceb10 wrote:

Its not really a "neighboorhood" football game. The two groups did not know each other at all. And the one group of boys specifically started a fight without any provocation after saying "lets get these white boys". Now, I'm not saying I think this is a hate crime but I'm pretty damn sure if the dynamics had been the other way around that would be what everyone would be calling it.

May I ask why you are so sure there wasn't any provocation. A lot can happen in a game of football.

Staceb10

Collin wrote:

May I ask why you are so sure there wasn't any provocation. A lot can happen in a game of football.

The football was over and had been over. And the other guys in the larger group of boys that didn't participate in the fight actually apologized to the other guys afterwards saying they didn't know they were going to do that.

Staceb10

Saturnal wrote:

There's not really enough information in this scenario to determine whether or not it's a hate crime. I'd say there's a good chance, but I can't say for sure.

But obviously your real question is "do hate crime laws unfairly favor non-white people?" And the answer is no.

Look at the statistics. Everyone is a potential victim for a hate crime. The laws make sense, and so do the results.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004885.html

Your answer is no but I'm not sure that's the case. It might benefit homosexual non-whites but what about heterosexual white men?

CorporateWhore

What's a hate crime besides being a crime caused by one's personal emotions and thoughts?

It's a crime. Hate crimes are buzz words.

jeffbr

I'm firmly in the "A crime is a crime." camp. Here's a link to the hate crime thread last week: http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=224667

NMyTree

Staceb10 wrote:

I'm interested in getting some feedback on this little scenario.


A group of friends..Six boys aged 19/20 who are all white ..are all playing football with a group of about 20 other boys who are all black aged 16-18 at the local high school. Some of the boys in Group 2 play football for that school and they all get together on the weekends and play at the school. Group 1 and Group 2 are getting along just fine, the game is played, everyone is about to leave. A boy in Group 2 for an unexplained reason ends up punching a boy in Group 1 in the face. The boy that got punched basically walks away. Then another boy in Group 2 tries to fight with someone else from Group 1 and about 10-12 of the boys from Group 2 end up "jumping" 4 of the boys from Group 1..2 of them left when the fighting began. Now keep in mind that the boys from Group 1 did not instigate or even know why the boys in Group 2 were attacking them. Also when the boys from Group 2 started the fighting they said "Let's get these white boys". The police were called and finally showed up about 10 mins afterwards. Not one time to anyone mention the word "hate crime" or even seem real concerned with the situation.

Do you think this would qualify as a "hate crime"? Do you think it would if it was a group of white guys attacking a group of black guys?

It's just a crime. The fact one of them said " let's get these white boys" doesn't really prove anything. people say stupid shit all the time. Doesn't mean it was actually racially motivated. I guess the only ones who really know the truth, whether it was racially-motivated, is the black guy who said that.

But without a doubt if the roles were reversed, the white guys would have been accused of a hate crime, Al Sharpton would fly into that town, meet with the guys and their families, spend hours and hours explaining and convincing the black guys and their families that in fact it was a hate crime.

The hardcopy newsprint would be all over it as a hate-crime. The internet news sources would be all over it playing up the hate-crime angle. Tyra Banks would have special show dedicated to this incident as a hate-crime.

Dr. Phil would do a show on the racism of the game of football and how it effects black men between the ages of 18-35.

Then Jesse Jackson would get involved and Michael Richards would take it upon himself to apologize to the black community .........for all of us white people.

...and South park would make fun of everyone involved.

lalalalaaaaaaaa

Staceb10 wrote:

Your answer is no but I'm not sure that's the case. It might benefit homosexual non-whites but what about heterosexual white men?

The stats distinguish between anti-gay and anti-white. Those aren't the same thing. There are actually more anti-white crimes committed than anti-male-homosexual.

know1

By the very poor definition of hate crime that exists, I would call that a hate crime.

But...I do not believe in the concept of hate crimes.

dkst0426

Count me in on the "crime is crime" school of thought.

soulsinging

Staceb10 wrote:

The football was over and had been over. And the other guys in the larger group of boys that didn't participate in the fight actually apologized to the other guys afterwards saying they didn't know they were going to do that.

why dont you just post a link to the story?

Staceb10

NMyTree wrote:

It's just a crime. The fact one of them said " let's get these white boys" doesn't really prove anything. people say stupid shit all the time. Doesn't mean it was actually racially motivated. I guess the only ones who really know the truth, whether it was racially-motivated, is the black guy who said that.

But without a doubt if the roles were reversed, the white guys would have been accused of a hate crime, Al Sharpton would fly into that town, meet with the guys and their families, spend hours and hours explaining and convincing the black guys and their families that in fact it was a hate crime.

The hardcopy newsprint would be all over it as a hate-crime. The internet news sources would be all over it playing up the hate-crime angle. Tyra Banks would have special show dedicated to this incident as a hate-crime.

Dr. Phil would do a show on the racism of the game of football and how it effects black men between the ages of 18-35.

Then Jesse Jackson would get involved and Michael Richards would take it upon himself to apologize to the black community .........for all of us white people.

...and South park would make fun of everyone involved.

See that was my point more than anything. I don't think this was race related or a hate crime myself. I just see the irony in the situation.

Staceb10

soulsinging wrote:

why dont you just post a link to the story?

There is no published story. Its a personal account.

Cosmo

Staceb10 wrote:

There is no published story. Its a personal account.

...
Here is a current event from this side of the country where some black teens are accused of hate crimes against 3 young white women on Halloween.
I would like to hear some points by the 'Hate Crime' detractors in defense these defendants (along with the defendants families) as to why these racially motivated beatings should not be treated as hate crimes to add greater punishment to these defendants.
...
http://www.presstelegram.com/news/ci_4780388