Hate crimes??
Staceb10
Posts: 675
I'm interested in getting some feedback on this little scenario.
A group of friends..Six boys aged 19/20 who are all white ..are all playing football with a group of about 20 other boys who are all black aged 16-18 at the local high school. Some of the boys in Group 2 play football for that school and they all get together on the weekends and play at the school. Group 1 and Group 2 are getting along just fine, the game is played, everyone is about to leave. A boy in Group 2 for an unexplained reason ends up punching a boy in Group 1 in the face. The boy that got punched basically walks away. Then another boy in Group 2 tries to fight with someone else from Group 1 and about 10-12 of the boys from Group 2 end up "jumping" 4 of the boys from Group 1..2 of them left when the fighting began. Now keep in mind that the boys from Group 1 did not instigate or even know why the boys in Group 2 were attacking them. Also when the boys from Group 2 started the fighting they said "Let's get these white boys". The police were called and finally showed up about 10 mins afterwards. Not one time to anyone mention the word "hate crime" or even seem real concerned with the situation.
Do you think this would qualify as a "hate crime"? Do you think it would if it was a group of white guys attacking a group of black guys?
A group of friends..Six boys aged 19/20 who are all white ..are all playing football with a group of about 20 other boys who are all black aged 16-18 at the local high school. Some of the boys in Group 2 play football for that school and they all get together on the weekends and play at the school. Group 1 and Group 2 are getting along just fine, the game is played, everyone is about to leave. A boy in Group 2 for an unexplained reason ends up punching a boy in Group 1 in the face. The boy that got punched basically walks away. Then another boy in Group 2 tries to fight with someone else from Group 1 and about 10-12 of the boys from Group 2 end up "jumping" 4 of the boys from Group 1..2 of them left when the fighting began. Now keep in mind that the boys from Group 1 did not instigate or even know why the boys in Group 2 were attacking them. Also when the boys from Group 2 started the fighting they said "Let's get these white boys". The police were called and finally showed up about 10 mins afterwards. Not one time to anyone mention the word "hate crime" or even seem real concerned with the situation.
Do you think this would qualify as a "hate crime"? Do you think it would if it was a group of white guys attacking a group of black guys?
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I think neither scenario's would be hate crimes, however I don't know the details...
The media, however, might call the second scenario a hate crime.
naděje umírá poslední
Your scenarios may both be hate crimes in practical and moral terms, but legally I think the key is the word "crime."
A neighborhood football game wih 19-20 year olds seems to me to enough reasons of it's own to cause a brawl.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Its not really a "neighboorhood" football game. The two groups did not know each other at all. And the one group of boys specifically started a fight without any provocation after saying "lets get these white boys". Now, I'm not saying I think this is a hate crime but I'm pretty damn sure if the dynamics had been the other way around that would be what everyone would be calling it.
There's not really enough information in this scenario to determine whether or not it's a hate crime. I'd say there's a good chance, but I can't say for sure.
But obviously your real question is "do hate crime laws unfairly favor non-white people?" And the answer is no.
Look at the statistics. Everyone is a potential victim for a hate crime. The laws make sense, and so do the results.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004885.html
May I ask why you are so sure there wasn't any provocation. A lot can happen in a game of football.
naděje umírá poslední
The football was over and had been over. And the other guys in the larger group of boys that didn't participate in the fight actually apologized to the other guys afterwards saying they didn't know they were going to do that.
Your answer is no but I'm not sure that's the case. It might benefit homosexual non-whites but what about heterosexual white men?
It's a crime. Hate crimes are buzz words.
-Enoch Powell
It's just a crime. The fact one of them said " let's get these white boys" doesn't really prove anything. people say stupid shit all the time. Doesn't mean it was actually racially motivated. I guess the only ones who really know the truth, whether it was racially-motivated, is the black guy who said that.
But without a doubt if the roles were reversed, the white guys would have been accused of a hate crime, Al Sharpton would fly into that town, meet with the guys and their families, spend hours and hours explaining and convincing the black guys and their families that in fact it was a hate crime.
The hardcopy newsprint would be all over it as a hate-crime. The internet news sources would be all over it playing up the hate-crime angle. Tyra Banks would have special show dedicated to this incident as a hate-crime.
Dr. Phil would do a show on the racism of the game of football and how it effects black men between the ages of 18-35.
Then Jesse Jackson would get involved and Michael Richards would take it upon himself to apologize to the black community .........for all of us white people.
...and South park would make fun of everyone involved.
The stats distinguish between anti-gay and anti-white. Those aren't the same thing. There are actually more anti-white crimes committed than anti-male-homosexual.
But...I do not believe in the concept of hate crimes.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
why dont you just post a link to the story?
See that was my point more than anything. I don't think this was race related or a hate crime myself. I just see the irony in the situation.
There is no published story. Its a personal account.
Here is a current event from this side of the country where some black teens are accused of hate crimes against 3 young white women on Halloween.
I would like to hear some points by the 'Hate Crime' detractors in defense these defendants (along with the defendants families) as to why these racially motivated beatings should not be treated as hate crimes to add greater punishment to these defendants.
...
http://www.presstelegram.com/news/ci_4780388
Hail, Hail!!!
The shitbags committed crimes. Try them for those crimes. If they were in a pack conspiring to do something illegal bring them up on federal RICO charges, too. There are already laws to take care of nailing these assholes without having the nebulous "hate" tag attached.
The justification for these attacks... based purely on race. So, simple assault charges should be filed and nothing further. The Hate Crime statute adds to the penalty these defendants will have to face... in my opinion... GOOD. Throw the book... AND THEN SOME... at these assholes.
Otherwise, it's sort of saying it wasn't that big of a deal for these kids to beat the crap out of their girls simply because they were white.
Hail, Hail!!!
In addition to the 10, two 17-year-old Long Beach boys arrested several days after the incident have been charged with the same three felony counts and the hate-crime enhancement. They are pending adjudication.
All the youths have been in custody, scattered among the county's three juvenile halls, since their arrests.
The hate-crime enhancement stems from witness and victim accounts that many in the group yelled racial slurs as they attacked the three victims.
The 18-year-old witness testified Monday that she heard one male yell out, "Fuck white people," before the three victims were attacked by a crowd of about 30 people.
All the victims suffered bruises and scrapes. Two victims had concussions and one suffered a dozen fractures on one side of her face - injuries that could permanently damage her eyesight. "
...
Oh well... kids will be kids. There is no reason to charge them with Hate Crimes (which, under law, denys them being released from custody and lets them return to their homes during the trial).
Hail, Hail!!!
Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me
It doesn't matter what scenario you toss out. How do you know what someone is feeling and thinking about another race when they commit a crime? Hate is an emotion.
How do you convict someone of having an emotion while they committed a crime? I say, make the penalties for all assaults harsher.
This is a slippery slope: what types of hate crimes could we be convicted of in the future? What if I perform an act of civil disobedience in front of an abortion clinic, but I don't just get charged with trespassing etc, I get charged with a hate crime as well? Hating women. How do you know I hate women? Did I say "fuck you whore!" to a woman walking in the clinic? Does that mean I hate women?
The simple fact that someone hates another person's race, religion, or gender while they commit a crime does not mean they should receive a harsher penalty.
Also, this idea of tacking on extra punishment sounds good to some, but we're not the ones being sentenced for having illicit thoughts. Extra punishment is not necessary all the time, folks.
-Enoch Powell
Armed robbery? Bank robbery? Auto theft? Home burgulary? Are those crimes?
Hail, Hail!!!
it involves hate to your fellow man!!!
Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me
Then, the punishment fits the crime? These kids should be treated the same if the victims were black... in which case, there would not be any crime because these women were targeted simply for being white. They should be released to the custody of their parents and not held in jail because the Hate Crime tag does not allow for this option... that's okay? Or should ALL assault defendants be remanded and not be released... like the guys that get in bar fights?
I am FOR Hate Crimes... I believe Terrorists commit Hate Crimes and I think they should NOT be allowed out on bail if they are hauled in on weapons charges or illegal possession of explosives.
Just as I think these fucking kids should not be released to the custody of their parents who don't think they did anything that bad.
...
I guess that is where you and I disagree.
Hail, Hail!!!
Auto theft??? Hate for your fellow man??? Or... just wanting parts for your own car, but you don't have the money to buy the stereo and shiney wheels.
Hail, Hail!!!