dispelling the ignorance some harbor towards Ralph Nader

kenny olav

trying to reform the Federal government is an exercise in futility. all of these little parties will fall apart. i worked for the Green Party in Massachusetts... it was a disastrous organization... it was barely an organization. without money, you can't hire talented people.

i don't know what the solution is. i don't think there is one. just don't let the bastards get you. try to improve your community... it's the only thing you can have lasting influence over.

i also think Ralph Nader is only campaigning to sell his books.

MrBrian

Kenny Olav wrote:

trying to reform the Federal government is an exercise in futility. all of these little parties will fall apart. i worked for the Green Party in Massachusetts... it was a disastrous organization... it was barely an organization. without money, you can't hire talented people.

i don't know what the solution is. i don't think there is one. just don't let the bastards get you. try to improve your community... it's the only thing you can have lasting influence over.

.

How sad is that...Not that I dont agree with it.

decides2dream

that's awesome, truly.
glad his political work has had many positive effects.
i just also happen to believe he might've been able to actually produce MORE of his desired results if her personally would've chosen to work his way up....run for congress let's say, rather than president. i think it would've been a LOT more likely for him to get elected at the state level, work his way in, work on programs he supports...work within the system....and THEN make a run for president. but hey, he didn't...and absolutely his choice. i just personally believe that would make his work even that more effective. and then, who knows?

El_Kabong

Pj_Gurl wrote:

Really?
So how do you explain 8 years of bush? You think he is good looking.....
or was it the movie star and celebrity like qualities???

well, there was a certain problem of 20,000 ppl being prevented from voting in florida b/c their name was close to that of a felon or committed a crime years in the future according to the report the sec of state (also on the bush campaign) paid millions of $ for....among other things like the supreme court stopping the recount until the deadline then saying they missed the deadline so that's that

then kerry was a horrible candidate

El_Kabong

Pj_Gurl wrote:

If he wants to be our President one day, he's going to have to learn to like the spotlight a bit more don't you think? I thought the reason he wasn't prominent in the media was because he was largely ignored? So you are now saying it's his choice that his voice is not heard so much?

That's not what i've been hearing around here for 2 years.

no, not at all, i'm saying he's not like obama where he goes to press conferences to speak about bills he had NOTHING to do w/ but is only there b/c the cameras are

El_Kabong

Kann wrote:

What?


As for Nader, I for one would like to know the reasons of him not offering collaboration with Obama's future government. Is it because he did and was ignored, or he counts on doing it one of these days or he just thinks "fuck it, they don't deserve me"?

he tried to meet w/ obama for months but obama 'didn't have time'

El_Kabong

decides2dream wrote:

that's awesome, truly.
glad his political work has had many positive effects.
i just also happen to believe he might've been able to actually produce MORE of his desired results if her personally would've chosen to work his way up....run for congress let's say, rather than president. i think it would've been a LOT more likely for him to get elected at the state level, work his way in, work on programs he supports...work within the system....and THEN make a run for president. but hey, he didn't...and absolutely his choice. i just personally believe that would make his work even that more effective. and then, who knows?

should the 3rd party candidates that pushed the abolition of slavery and women's rights have done the same?

Nader has created more change in the country in his lifetime than pretty much anyone

RolandTD20Kdrummer

El_Kabong wrote:

should the 3rd party candidates that pushed the abolition of slavery and women's rights have done the same?

Nader has created more change in the country in his lifetime than pretty much anyone

Ironic that so many people crying for change, are the very same calling him an inconsequential nutjob.

The media plays havoc with people minds like no other it seems.

I hope the psychologists are all documenting this reality for future recognition and prevention.

decides2dream

El_Kabong wrote:

should the 3rd party candidates that pushed the abolition of slavery and women's rights have done the same?

Nader has created more change in the country in his lifetime than pretty much anyone

i will not go round and round with you yet again.
suffice to say, it is merely my opinion of what i'd have liked to see from him.


as to the rest.....we are all entitled to our opinions.

VictoryGin

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Ironic that so many people crying for change, are the very same calling him an inconsequential nutjob.

your definition of "irony" must come from the alanis morrisette school of thought.

angelica

VictoryGin wrote:

your definition of "irony" must come from the alanis morrisette school of thought.

And the dictionary.

What I'd like to know is where this Alanis-irony meme has stemmed from, that enables people act out ignorance of the the English language and yet feel so smug about it!

angelica

and yes....I know how ironic my own smug-ness is!

RolandTD20Kdrummer

VictoryGin wrote:

your definition of "irony" must come from the alanis morrisette school of thought.

Change means anything apparently.

angelica

in the case of Alanis:

"It's like rain on your wedding day"

"it's a black fly in your chardonnay"

or like winning the lottery and dying the next day...


irony: an outcome of events contrary to what was, or might have been, expected.

inmytree

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Ironic that so many people crying for change, are the very same calling him an inconsequential nutjob.

The media plays havoc with people minds like no other it seems.

I hope the psychologists are all documenting this reality for future recognition and prevention.

I suppose it depends on your definition of "change"...I'm sure you're aware it's a fairly subjective term....my version of change may differ from yours...

As for Nader, it's not that I don't like him, it's that he is very far left, and anti-corporation...during the campaign, I reviewed his website and his platform. Mostly he provided a nice history lesson and a vague statement of what he wanted to "change", but offered little by way of specifics...

I posted a thread comparing his healthcare plan to Obama's...Obama offered a clear, specific plan...Nader gave a history lesson and simply said things need to change, but nothing else...kinda like the SNL character on Weekend Update discussing the economy yelling "just fix it!" over and over...

MrBrian

Fighting over the meaning over 'ironic' so we can ignore the point of this thread.

El_Kabong

inmytree wrote:

I suppose it depends on your definition of "change"...I'm sure you're aware it's a fairly subjective term....my version of change may differ from yours...

As for Nader, it's not that I don't like him, it's that he is very far left, and anti-corporation...during the campaign, I reviewed his website and his platform. Mostly he provided a nice history lesson and a vague statement of what he wanted to "change", but offered little by way of specifics...

I posted a thread comparing his healthcare plan to Obama's...Obama offered a clear, specific plan...Nader gave a history lesson and simply said things need to change, but nothing else...kinda like the SNL character on Weekend Update discussing the economy yelling "just fix it!" over and over...

really? b/c i thought obama's was pretty vague, he kept saying it would be 'affordable' but that is also a pretty subjective term

i had made a post breaking it down once but got no reply, even from the person who requested it

when you went to his site, did you scroll down?

http://www.votenader.org/issues/social/healthcare/

Financing
Although we can easily provide universal, single-payer health insurance for the same amount that we spend and waste on health care now, public funding will be required to replace the portion now paid for by employers and individuals. Consider PNHP’s model:

A universal public system would be financed this way:.......

El_Kabong

MrBrian wrote:

Fighting over the meaning over 'ironic' so we can ignore the point of this thread.

hey, they're leading change

decides2dream

MrBrian wrote:

Fighting over the meaning over 'ironic' so we can ignore the point of this thread.

hahahahahahahahaha!
was thinking the SAME thing.....and sure...i was going to chime in there too, but i'll refrain.



as ever, so funny how differently things can be seen, read.......differing perspectives to be certain and just all the more illustrating our very different pov for the world, period.

inmytree

El_Kabong wrote:

really? b/c i thought obama's was pretty vague, he kept saying it would be 'affordable' but that is also a pretty subjective term

i had made a post breaking it down once but got no reply, even from the person who requested it

when you went to his site, did you scroll down?

http://www.votenader.org/issues/social/healthcare/

Financing
Although we can easily provide universal, single-payer health insurance for the same amount that we spend and waste on health care now, public funding will be required to replace the portion now paid for by employers and individuals. Consider PNHP’s model:

A universal public system would be financed this way:.......

I stand corrected, my comparison post was about Job Creation...

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=297792&highlight=nader

I do have to say I agree with a lot of what Nader says about Healthcare...I will give him that...and I agree, there needs to be a new direction in regards to healthcare...I wish he would address the loss of jobs that would happen if we went to a single payer, non-profit system...