Nader on Obama/Israel

Its Evolution Baby

MrBrian wrote:

Bcoz he is still, hands down..the best of the best. But that's obvioulsy not good enough for you. The best of the worst is what you like.

No I just don't agree with you politically.

I don't know why that offends so many people on this board.

MrBrian

Its Evolution Baby wrote:

No I just don't agree with you politically.

I don't know why that offends so many people on this board.

Really? You support the iraq war? israeli crimes? patriot act?
---

If you support those things then sure. Go vote for Obama.

inmytree

From Nader's website: http://www.votenader.org/issues/middle-east/

Middle East

Nader/Gonzalez wrote:

Nader/Gonzalez would reverse the current policy in the Middle East.

The current political strategy of pre-emptive war in the Middle East is a disaster for both the American people and the people of the Middle East. It has bloated the already wasteful military budget and has cost at present over 4,000 American lives, nearly 100,000 American injuries, and over a million Iraqi civilian lives, plus the destruction of their country.

Nader/Gonzalez propose a rapid withdrawal of troops from Iraq.

A target of withdrawing troops in six months will be set.

Fifty-eight percent of Americans want troops withdrawn from Iraq and a January 2006 poll shows that 72 percent of American soldiers in the field in Iraq wanted the U.S. out of Iraq within six to twelve months.

The war is costing taxpayers nearly $4,600 every second -- and that doesn't include the long-term reconstruction costs.

Nader/Gonzalez proposes that a rapid negotiated withdrawal from Iraq, with UN sponsored elections, is the first step toward delivering peace to Middle East.

On Israel/Palestine, a recent Haaretz poll showed that 64 percent of Israeli people want negotiations for peace between Israel and Hamas, while only 28% oppose it.

The Israeli people want peace. The Palestinian people want peace.

All kinds of people to people peace groups are forming in Israel and Palestine.

Among them:

*

The Combatants for Peace – fighters on both sides of the divide who have put down their guns to join together for a non-violent solution.
*

The Bereaved Families for Peace – the brave Israelis and Palestinians who have lost a loved one to the conflict and who are joining together to seek a non-violent solution.
*

The Arab-American and Jewish Americans who have stood up courageously together for a non-violent solution to the unending conflict.

And of course, the majority of the American Jewish community want peace.

By a 46-to-43 percent plurality American Jews continue to support the creation of a Palestinian state. Other polls show even higher support, among Jewish Americans, for a two-state solution.

Instead, both Democrats and Republicans reflexively support the militarists in Israel.

Israel has militarily occupied Gaza for forty years. It pulled out its colonies in 2005 but maintained an iron grip on the area -- controlling all access, including its airspace and territorial waters.

Its F-16s and helicopter gunships regularly shred more and more of the areas’ public works, its neighborhoods and inflict collective punishment on civilians in violation of Article 55 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

The Israeli government's blockade of Gaza prevents critical food, medicine, fuel, electricity and other necessities from coming into this tiny enclave through international relief organizations.

The resulting humanitarian crisis is received with predictable silence or callousness by members of Congress, including John McCain, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.

Nader/Gonzalez will continue to speak out about this humanitarian crisis and side with the strong and courageous Israeli/Palestinian peace movements who are working for a peaceful two-state solution.

I read this and it says nothing about what they will actually do..."siding" with some one is not action

inmytree

Here is a link from Obama's website outlining his policies on the Middle East...

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/IsraelFactSheet.pdf

I'd cut and paste, but the pdf. file did not want to line up correctly..

inmytree

More from Obama:

Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: Obama will make progress on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict a key diplomatic priority. He will make a sustained push – working with Israelis and Palestinians – to achieve the goal of two states, a Jewish state in Israel and a Palestinian state, living side by side in peace and security.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/foreignpolicy/#onisrael

fuck

inmytree wrote:

Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: Obama will make progress on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict a key diplomatic priority. He will make a sustained push – working with Israelis and Palestinians – to achieve the goal of two states, a Jewish state in Israel and a Palestinian state, living side by side in peace and security.

I don't want to hear about Bush's plans, I want to hear about Obama's...

...oh, wait... nevermind...

inmytree

_outlaw wrote:

I don't want to hear about Bush's plans, I want to hear about Obama's...

...oh, wait... nevermind...

And I'd like to hear Nader's Plan...

oh wait, his plan is to criticize and offer nothing....nice policy...

Its Evolution Baby

MrBrian wrote:

Really? You support the iraq war? israeli crimes? patriot act?
---

If you support those things then sure. Go vote for Obama.

Ok I will. Thanks for the permission.

And He's not for the Iraq war. He's been against it since day one. Check his record.

And voting to keep funding the war is not the same as voting for war. Bush would have found his war money elsewhere. That money was so the troops fighting would have the necessary tools to survive in Iraq.

Do you really think stopping funding to the war would have ended the conflict?

MrBrian

Its Evolution Baby wrote:

Ok I will. Thanks for the permission.

And He's not for the Iraq war. He's been against it since day one. Check his record.

And voting to keep funding the war is not the same as voting for war. Bush would have found his war money elsewhere. That money was so the troops fighting would have the necessary tools to survive in Iraq.

Do you really think stopping funding to the war would have ended the conflict?

So let Bush find his money elsewhere, but no, Obama and you figure, "well if Bush is gonna find the money elsewhere, I might as well give it to him"...

We want the troops to leave iraq, not stay and survive in it.

cincybearcat

inmytree wrote:

And I'd like to hear Nader's Plan...

oh wait, his plan is to criticize and offer nothing....nice policy...

Makes his job simple.

Its Evolution Baby

MrBrian wrote:

So let Bush find his money elsewhere, but no, Obama and you figure, "well if Bush is gonna find the money elsewhere, I might as well give it to him"...

We want the troops to leave iraq, not stay and survive in it.

Yes Obama and me made drafted the bill in congress. No wait he just voted for it. Congressmen make many votes in a day and sometimes you will agree and sometimes you won't.

But to put the entire blame that the troops in Iraq are still there on Obama is ridiculous. Was he speaker of the house?

He has said time and again he his committing to bringing the troops home as President when he ACTUALLY has the power to do so.

And I do believe Bush would have found the funding to keep the troops in Iraq so that vote was completely meaningless. To me it would be easy to spin that as a vote against the troops even if the intent was to end the war.

Vince

El_Kabong wrote:

what leadership qualities do you feel obama posses?

Easy. Look at how many people have signed onto his campaign. Great leaders only come along once in a lifetime. Obama started at the grassroots level as a community activist like many of us and worked his way up through local and state ranks. Nader had his place and his followers along with himself are becoming more irrelevant as each days passes. Sooner than later he will be classified in the same group as Lydon Larouches (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_LaRouche) aka nutjobs if he continues along with is pessimistic do-nothing politics. What is the last positive thing Nader has done for this country? He is a grumpy old man with a lot of time on his hands. Obama was not my first choice (Bill Richardson) but he is the only viable candidate that has the potential to turn this country around for the greater good.

Urban Hiker

Its Evolution Baby wrote:

After watching that video I have concluded that Nader has the charisma of Wheat toast without butter. Before anyone starts I know Charisma shouldn't matter but its more an observation.

I think you are just pulling a CYA. We are voting for the President not a Cheerleading Captain. :cool:

Its Evolution Baby wrote:

I think he does a lot of great work but he does not have the leadership qualities necessary to be President.

I disagree. He has led many groups and knows his shit on a dizzying number of topics. He has educated himself on just about everything under the sun. What he is done for this country cannot be accomplished without leadership qualities.

Its Evolution Baby wrote:

Also his policies would not get the support of congress and I think it would crush the man's great spirit.

You're talking about a man who was able to get an apology from GM in front of Congress. His spirit has been tested and found uncrushable.

Its Evolution Baby wrote:

Like I've said before, why does he want to be President when he accomplishes more fighting for consumer rights. As President he will have to concern himself with ALL matters such as foreign affairs, economy, budget (which would be a disaster under Nader).

Nader should be pushing the democrats to include some of his agenda not running against them in a failing bid for presidency.

From: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2008/07/09/DI2008070901801.html
Olney, Md.: Mr. Nader, I voted for you in the past two elections and I applaud your efforts to challenge the status quo. However, I wonder if some of the issues you care about might be addressed more effectively through local politics, which then could lead to larger, national movements. Have you considered running for elected office as either a senator or governor? Would you consider doing so if your bid for the presidency is unsuccessful this year?

Ralph Nader: My purpose is to have a national impact, arousing people all over the country to challenge the two-party dictatorship and encouraging people to run as independents and third-party candidates at the local state and national levels. In this manner, you stimulate the local through the national and the national through the local. This could not be done running in a state for senator or governor.

And From: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/24/AR2008062401619.html
"If you're locked out of the governmental system, if you can't get a hearing, and I can't, you go to the electoral system. What's my alternative? Should I go to Monterey and watch the whales?"

Urban Hiker

inmytree wrote:

Here is a link from Obama's website outlining his policies on the Middle East...

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/IsraelFactSheet.pdf

I'd cut and paste, but the pdf. file did not want to line up correctly..

inmytree wrote:

More from Obama:

Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: Obama will make progress on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict a key diplomatic priority. He will make a sustained push – working with Israelis and Palestinians – to achieve the goal of two states, a Jewish state in Israel and a Palestinian state, living side by side in peace and security.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/foreignpolicy/#onisrael

His policy reads to me like he will let Israel do anything they want and the Palestinians can have some peace if they live in their tiny designated area and prove not to be a threat (not a threat = continue to live behind a wall and get searched wherever they go, oh - and, don't fight back if attacked).

I don't like it. I'm generally not a person to jump in on Israel/Palestine threads. I feel biased since the best friend I've made in years is currently living in Tel Aviv and my husband is Jewish.

However, I want to see a TRUE two state solution where Jerusalem is a shared city. I want to see peace. Obama is promising to support Israel's military attacks for just about everything.

It's not good.

Anon

On the video nader says, 'with your generous help, nader/gonzalez will work together, to make the voices for peace heard throughout this election year. together, we will make a difference.'

lovely. awesome. hooray. now can someone please tell me how nader is going to bring peace to israel? i've read his website. it's says all the nice feely touchy mmm i feel good things, but how does he actually propose to do this?

i want to know how. anyone? kabong? outlaw? smithy?, urban?

Urban Hiker

Pj_Gurl wrote:

On the video nader says, 'with your generous help, nader/gonzalez will work together, to make the voices for peace heard throughout this election year. together, we will make a difference.'

lovely. awesome. hooray. now can someone please tell me how nader is going to bring peace to israel? i've read his website. it's says all the nice feely touchy mmm i feel good things, but how does he actually propose to do this?

i want to know how. anyone? kabong? outlaw? smithy?, urban?

Ask Nader

Anon

Urban Hiker wrote:

Ask Nader

i'm asking his supporters? i can't find anything. can you help me out?

Urban Hiker

Pj_Gurl wrote:

i'm asking his supporters? i can't find anything. can you help me out?

I support his support of a two state solution. As these (diplomatic solutions involving other countries) things go, you start with an idea of WHAT you want to achieve and go from there.

I definitely suggest trying to get more info from the man himself, so you're not relying on middle-man interpretation.

There's going to be this cool house party thing happening where Nader is going to be answering questions from attendees from all over.
http://www.votenader.org/houseparty/

Also, I'd keep an eye out for when he's in your area. It's not hard to get into the rallies and he stays to answer questions. As far as cost goes, it's usually suggested, not required. If he gets his word to you for free, that's fine with him.
http://www.votenader.org/events/

Byrnzie

inmytree wrote:

And I'd like to hear Nader's Plan...

oh wait, his plan is to criticize and offer nothing....nice policy...

Actually, Nadar mentions in the Youtube clip the international consensus, which is that of the U.N Security Council who call for a two-state settlement on the June 1967 borders.
This is the internationally agreed solution to the conflict which has been continually blocked in the U.N for the past 30 years largely to the tune of 160-2 (U.S and Israel).

The only people offering nothing are the Israeli and U.S governments.

inmytree

Byrnzie wrote:

Actually, Nadar mentions in the Youtube clip the international consensus, which is that of the U.N Security Council who call for a two-state settlement on the June 1967 borders.
This is the internationally agreed solution to the conflict which has been continually blocked in the U.N for the past 30 years largely to the tune of 160-2 (U.S and Israel).

The only people offering nothing are the Israeli and U.S governments.

don't kid yourself, Ralph is offering nothing, too...

Just read his stance under the Issues section of his website...it's a nice history lesson, and little else...