Nader on Obama/Israel

El_Kabong

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij0OjMEJKes


word

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Guidelines are put in place before his speeches....er I mean the puppet strings are attached.

and then he dances while people applaud unknowingly in this case...trying to do the right thing, but not accomplishing the goal.

MrBrian

The sad thing is, that video will probably get Obama more votes....

El_Kabong

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Guidelines are put in place before his speeches....er I mean the puppet strings are attached.

and then he dances while people applaud unknowingly in this case...trying to do the right thing, but not accomplishing the goal.

cool beans!

Its Evolution Baby

After watching that video I have concluded that Nader has the charisma of Wheat toast without butter. Before anyone starts I know Charisma shouldn't matter but its more an observation.

I think he does a lot of great work but he does not have the leadership qualities necessary to be President.

Also his policies would not get the support of congress and I think it would crush the man's great spirit.

Like I've said before, why does he want to be President when he accomplishes more fighting for consumer rights. As President he will have to concern himself with ALL matters such as foreign affairs, economy, budget (which would be a disaster under Nader).

Nader should be pushing the democrats to include some of his agenda not running against them in a failing bid for presidency.

Just my $0.02.

El_Kabong

Its Evolution Baby wrote:

After watching that video I have concluded that Nader has the charisma of Wheat toast without butter. Before anyone starts I know Charisma shouldn't matter but its more an observation.

I think he does a lot of great work but he does not have the leadership qualities necessary to be President.

Also his policies would not get the support of congress and I think it would crush the man's great spirit.

Like I've said before, why does he want to be President when he accomplishes more fighting for consumer rights. As President he will have to concern himself with ALL matters such as foreign affairs, economy, budget (which would be a disaster under Nader).

Nader should be pushing the democrats to include some of his agenda not running against them in a failing bid for presidency.

Just my $0.02.

what leadership qualities do you feel obama posses?

MrBrian

Its Evolution Baby wrote:

After watching that video I have concluded that Nader has the charisma of Wheat toast without butter.

I think he does a lot of great work but he does not have the leadership qualities necessary to be President.

Also his policies would not get the support of congress and I think it would crush the man's great spirit.

Like I've said before, why does he want to be President when he accomplishes more fighting for consumer rights. As President he will have to concern himself with ALL matters such as foreign affairs, economy, budget (which would be a disaster under Nader).

Nader should be pushing the democrats to include some of his agenda not running against them in a failing bid for presidency.

Just my $0.02.

Is that the state of american politics, vote for the person with the most charisma?

So the american mind,

Vote for the person with the worst policies but most charisma. Becoz the guy with not so much charisma and better policies would not get the support of congress becoz congress doesnt supprt good issues.

hmmm,

"Nader's Policies are too good so will never get support...So Vote for Obama '08"
---

oh and that little nader wheat toast thing, I agree, Nader is healthy wheat bread, no butter. Obama and McCain are shit sandwhiches on white"

Its Evolution Baby

El_Kabong wrote:

what leadership qualities do you feel obama posses?

Whether you disagree with his policies or not you can't argue that he is inspiring a lot of people especially the youth.

There hasn't been a politician like him since 2000 when I started voting.

I tend to agree to his Left-Center agenda and feel he will accomplish a lot with his presidency because he is not trying to be overtly partisan.

Not one Nader voter can explain how he plans to get his bills through with 50% of congress completely despising him and his bills.

As much as I like the guy I know the Republicans will block him at every turn and I don't know if Nader can handle it.

El_Kabong

MrBrian wrote:

Is that the state of american politics, vote for the person with the most charisma?

So the american mind,

Vote for the person with the worst policies but most charisma. Becoz the guy with not so much charisma and better policies would not get the support of congress becoz congress doesnt supprt good issues.

hmmm,

"Nader's Policies are too good so will never get support...So Vote for Obama '08"
---

oh and that little nader wheat toast thing, I agree, Nader is healthy wheat bread, no butter. Obama and McCain are shit sandwhiches on white"

that made me laugh out loud

Its Evolution Baby

MrBrian wrote:

Is that the state of american politics, vote for the person with the most charisma?

So the american mind,

Vote for the person with the worst policies but most charisma. Becoz the guy with not so much charisma and better policies would not get the support of congress becoz congress doesnt supprt good issues.

hmmm,

"Nader's Policies are too good so will never get support...So Vote for Obama '08"
---

oh and that little nader wheat toast thing, I agree, Nader is healthy wheat bread, no butter. Obama and McCain are shit sandwhiches on white"

You can have your healthy wheat bread then.

I want my Obama Meatball sub!!!

El_Kabong

Its Evolution Baby wrote:

Whether you disagree with his policies or not you can't argue that he is inspiring a lot of people especially the youth.

There hasn't been a politician like him since 2000 when I started voting.

I tend to agree to his Left-Center agenda and feel he will accomplish a lot with his presidency because he is not trying to be overtly partisan.

Not one Nader voter can explain how he plans to get his bills through with 50% of congress completely despising him and his bills.

As much as I like the guy I know the Republicans will block him at every turn and I don't know if Nader can handle it.

so, mr brian was correct? actual policies and action are meaningless, it's just about who's more popular?

it's rather simple, if he were voted in as president it would mean the public supported him, so if congress blocks everything they would be held accountable


oh, shit, wait...this the US, we don't hold our elected representatives accountable, we just shrug and say they are all liars in bed w/ corporate lobbyists and that's just how it is so at least i should like to get a beer w/ the guy fucking me in my ass afterwards

Its Evolution Baby

El_Kabong wrote:

that made me laugh out loud

Because you agree. I thought it wasn't very witty myself.

Shit sandwiches????

Are you an Adam Sandler fan???

Its Evolution Baby

El_Kabong wrote:

so, mr brian was correct? actual policies and action are meaningless, it's just about who's more popular?

it's rather simple, if he were voted in as president it would mean the public supported him, so if congress blocks everything they would be held accountable


oh, shit, wait...this the US, we don't hold our elected representatives accountable, we just shrug and say they are all liars in bed w/ corporate lobbyists and that's just how it is so at least i should like to get a beer w/ the guy fucking me in my ass afterwards

Bush was elected president and the Democratic Congress was supposed to block all of his policies.

Do you follow politics???

El_Kabong

Its Evolution Baby wrote:

Because you agree. I thought it wasn't very witty myself.

Shit sandwiches????

Are you an Adam Sandler fan???

so under leadership qualities for obama all you can come up w/ is he's charismatic?

and no, not a huge sandler fan

El_Kabong

Its Evolution Baby wrote:

Bush was elected president and the Democratic Congress was supposed to block all of his policies.

Do you follow politics???

that's what you're saying would happen if nader were elected, isn't it?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

People equate not being charismatic or "cool" with not being a viable choice or someone who would be ineffective at the job. From a genetic sense, I suppose it goes back to tribe elders being put forwards usually as appearing the most competent. charismatic, strong, commandeering, powerful, protective, smart etc...

I think this all happens now in our society some time in high school....that part that continues on in our adult lives anyways.

Its Evolution Baby

El_Kabong wrote:

so under leadership qualities for obama all you can come up w/ is he's charismatic?

and no, not a huge sandler fan

I don't know what you are asking? I said that he has inspired me and many people around me who generally don't care about politics.

You also think everyone here agrees with you here. Well I know I don't. I actually like Obama's Iran Policy, I think he will try to get peace in Israel/Palestine no matter what was said at AIPAC (You got to know your audience), i like his plan to provide health care to those who are uninsured while making no changes to people like me who have excellent coverage, I like that he has remained committed to removing the bulk of troops from Iraq within 16 months.

You don't think he's a good leader because you don't agree with him.

MrBrian

Its Evolution Baby wrote:

You can have your healthy wheat bread then.

I want my Obama Meatball sub!!!

ok, enjoy it.
---

I give up,

Its Evolution Baby

El_Kabong wrote:

that's what you're saying would happen if nader were elected, isn't it?

Yes the right wing would try to block every single thing Nader would try to pass.

It could even happen to Obama even though he's just like them evidently.

Its Evolution Baby

MrBrian wrote:

ok, enjoy it.
---

I give up,

If you want to give up trying to change me and how I tend to vote then you probably should.

If I wasn't going to vote for Nader in 2000 when EVERYONE around me was voting for him then why would I do it now???

And though I should get over it I still blame Nader for a lot of what's happened in the last 8 years.

I think a Gore presidency would have been fantastic but it was derailed by to many people calling him the same as Bush. How hilarious that turned out to be.

MrBrian

Its Evolution Baby wrote:

If you want to give up trying to change me and how I tend to vote then you probably should.

If I wasn't going to vote for Nader in 2000 when EVERYONE around me was voting for him then why would I do it now???

.

Bcoz he is still, hands down..the best of the best. But that's obvioulsy not good enough for you. The best of the worst is what you like.

Its Evolution Baby

MrBrian wrote:

Bcoz he is still, hands down..the best of the best. But that's obvioulsy not good enough for you. The best of the worst is what you like.

No I just don't agree with you politically.

I don't know why that offends so many people on this board.

MrBrian

Its Evolution Baby wrote:

No I just don't agree with you politically.

I don't know why that offends so many people on this board.

Really? You support the iraq war? israeli crimes? patriot act?
---

If you support those things then sure. Go vote for Obama.

inmytree

From Nader's website: http://www.votenader.org/issues/middle-east/

Middle East

Nader/Gonzalez wrote:

Nader/Gonzalez would reverse the current policy in the Middle East.

The current political strategy of pre-emptive war in the Middle East is a disaster for both the American people and the people of the Middle East. It has bloated the already wasteful military budget and has cost at present over 4,000 American lives, nearly 100,000 American injuries, and over a million Iraqi civilian lives, plus the destruction of their country.

Nader/Gonzalez propose a rapid withdrawal of troops from Iraq.

A target of withdrawing troops in six months will be set.

Fifty-eight percent of Americans want troops withdrawn from Iraq and a January 2006 poll shows that 72 percent of American soldiers in the field in Iraq wanted the U.S. out of Iraq within six to twelve months.

The war is costing taxpayers nearly $4,600 every second -- and that doesn't include the long-term reconstruction costs.

Nader/Gonzalez proposes that a rapid negotiated withdrawal from Iraq, with UN sponsored elections, is the first step toward delivering peace to Middle East.

On Israel/Palestine, a recent Haaretz poll showed that 64 percent of Israeli people want negotiations for peace between Israel and Hamas, while only 28% oppose it.

The Israeli people want peace. The Palestinian people want peace.

All kinds of people to people peace groups are forming in Israel and Palestine.

Among them:

*

The Combatants for Peace – fighters on both sides of the divide who have put down their guns to join together for a non-violent solution.
*

The Bereaved Families for Peace – the brave Israelis and Palestinians who have lost a loved one to the conflict and who are joining together to seek a non-violent solution.
*

The Arab-American and Jewish Americans who have stood up courageously together for a non-violent solution to the unending conflict.

And of course, the majority of the American Jewish community want peace.

By a 46-to-43 percent plurality American Jews continue to support the creation of a Palestinian state. Other polls show even higher support, among Jewish Americans, for a two-state solution.

Instead, both Democrats and Republicans reflexively support the militarists in Israel.

Israel has militarily occupied Gaza for forty years. It pulled out its colonies in 2005 but maintained an iron grip on the area -- controlling all access, including its airspace and territorial waters.

Its F-16s and helicopter gunships regularly shred more and more of the areas’ public works, its neighborhoods and inflict collective punishment on civilians in violation of Article 55 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

The Israeli government's blockade of Gaza prevents critical food, medicine, fuel, electricity and other necessities from coming into this tiny enclave through international relief organizations.

The resulting humanitarian crisis is received with predictable silence or callousness by members of Congress, including John McCain, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.

Nader/Gonzalez will continue to speak out about this humanitarian crisis and side with the strong and courageous Israeli/Palestinian peace movements who are working for a peaceful two-state solution.

I read this and it says nothing about what they will actually do..."siding" with some one is not action

inmytree

Here is a link from Obama's website outlining his policies on the Middle East...

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/IsraelFactSheet.pdf

I'd cut and paste, but the pdf. file did not want to line up correctly..

inmytree

More from Obama:

Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: Obama will make progress on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict a key diplomatic priority. He will make a sustained push – working with Israelis and Palestinians – to achieve the goal of two states, a Jewish state in Israel and a Palestinian state, living side by side in peace and security.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/foreignpolicy/#onisrael

fuck

inmytree wrote:

Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: Obama will make progress on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict a key diplomatic priority. He will make a sustained push – working with Israelis and Palestinians – to achieve the goal of two states, a Jewish state in Israel and a Palestinian state, living side by side in peace and security.

I don't want to hear about Bush's plans, I want to hear about Obama's...

...oh, wait... nevermind...

inmytree

_outlaw wrote:

I don't want to hear about Bush's plans, I want to hear about Obama's...

...oh, wait... nevermind...

And I'd like to hear Nader's Plan...

oh wait, his plan is to criticize and offer nothing....nice policy...

Its Evolution Baby

MrBrian wrote:

Really? You support the iraq war? israeli crimes? patriot act?
---

If you support those things then sure. Go vote for Obama.

Ok I will. Thanks for the permission.

And He's not for the Iraq war. He's been against it since day one. Check his record.

And voting to keep funding the war is not the same as voting for war. Bush would have found his war money elsewhere. That money was so the troops fighting would have the necessary tools to survive in Iraq.

Do you really think stopping funding to the war would have ended the conflict?

MrBrian

Its Evolution Baby wrote:

Ok I will. Thanks for the permission.

And He's not for the Iraq war. He's been against it since day one. Check his record.

And voting to keep funding the war is not the same as voting for war. Bush would have found his war money elsewhere. That money was so the troops fighting would have the necessary tools to survive in Iraq.

Do you really think stopping funding to the war would have ended the conflict?

So let Bush find his money elsewhere, but no, Obama and you figure, "well if Bush is gonna find the money elsewhere, I might as well give it to him"...

We want the troops to leave iraq, not stay and survive in it.

cincybearcat

inmytree wrote:

And I'd like to hear Nader's Plan...

oh wait, his plan is to criticize and offer nothing....nice policy...

Makes his job simple.