Police don't have to knock, justices say

MLC2006

1970RR wrote:

I believe the reasoning for police announcing themselves is to reduce violence and property damage during raids, which are occurring more & more often with the increasing use of militarized SWAT teams to prosecute the "War on Drugs".

Its understandable that any homeowner might mistake police for intruders when crashing in unannounced in the middle of the night, the problem is that it increases risk for death or injury for all involved.

how many warrants have you served? I've served hundreds, mostly in the middle of the night. that 15 seconds that you give someone is 15 seconds that they have to destroy evidence or run, or worst of all, hide and arm themselves. so to say that unannounced entry increases risk of death or injury for all involved is absolutely false. it also cuts down on the chances that uninvolved 3rd parties inside the residence will have the opportunity to work up a lie to tell officers, thus stirring up new criminal charges.

Abuskedti

I am sure there are times when barging in without knocking is warranted. This leaves it to the discretion of the police officers. There will be errors. and law suits.

Too bad the government leave so much to the discretion of these public servants, but doesn't see fit to fund their training or compensation commensurate with the expectation of performance.

Abuskedti

MLC2006 wrote:

how many warrants have you served? I've served hundreds, mostly in the middle of the night. that 15 seconds that you give someone is 15 seconds that they have to destroy evidence or run, or worst of all, hide and arm themselves. so to say that unannounced entry increases risk of death or injury for all involved is absolutely false. it also cuts down on the chances that uninvolved 3rd parties inside the residence will have the opportunity to work up a lie to tell officers, thus stirring up new criminal charges.

good points.. nice to see an expert chime in. Thanks

trappedinmyradio

catefrances wrote:

yeah. and what happens if i'm half asleep when someone i don't know comes crashing through my door and i think i'm under attack and shoot the bastard?

you have the undeniable right to use deadly force when someone enters your home uninvited...in that situation - nothing happens unless it is found that you came to know that the people (or person) in your house was a law enforcement officer...then you are charged with murder...

trappedinmyradio

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

death penalty

that is a stunningly broad stroke. think self-defense...and defending your home...there would have to be some extremely exacerbating circumstances to warrant any sort of conviction in that situation.

keeponrockin

MLC2006 wrote:

how many warrants have you served? I've served hundreds, mostly in the middle of the night. that 15 seconds that you give someone is 15 seconds that they have to destroy evidence or run, or worst of all, hide and arm themselves. so to say that unannounced entry increases risk of death or injury for all involved is absolutely false. it also cuts down on the chances that uninvolved 3rd parties inside the residence will have the opportunity to work up a lie to tell officers, thus stirring up new criminal charges.

Hail Hail MLC2006!

MLC2006

keeponrockin wrote:

Hail Hail MLC2006!

huh?

MLC2006

trappedinmyradio wrote:

you have the undeniable right to use deadly force when someone enters your home uninvited...in that situation - nothing happens unless it is found that you came to know that the people (or person) in your house was a law enforcement officer...then you are charged with murder...

there is no such 'undeniable right' that I know of. to say 'undeniable' if I understand correctly, would be to say that you can't be prosecuted, and I know for sure that this is not the case, at least if probable cause can be shown that you killed someone for a reason other than SELF defense (not property defense). in the case of someone killing an officer serving a warrant, there would be PLENTY of probable cause to prove motive beyond self defense.

El_Kabong

catefrances wrote:

yeah. and what happens if i'm half asleep when someone i don't know comes crashing through my door and i think i'm under attack and shoot the bastard?

try asking fred hampton


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hampton#The_raid

miller8966

The knock procedure is stupid.

"Ok were here,make sure you hide the illegal stuff before we come in".

Eliot Rosewater

know1 wrote:

They've already gone to the trouble of getting a judge to sign a warrant, so are a simple knock and the extra 10 seconds really that important?

You can hide an a lot of guns and drugs in 10 seconds.....

Commy

El_Kabong wrote:

try asking fred hampton


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hampton#The_raid

yeah, let's make it legal for them to do this....that way they don't have to bother with the cover ups and tearing down the walls and all that trouble...great idea.

miller8966

Commy wrote:

yeah, let's make it legal for them to do this....that way they don't have to bother with the cover ups and tearing down the walls and all that trouble...great idea.

Yes because cover ups happen on a daily basis.

Commy

miller8966 wrote:

Yes because cover ups happen on a daily basis.

It just takes one abuse of power...why even give them the oportunity to do something like this...

When the shit goes down in the United States..and it will go down-the people will take their country back-they will have all the cards...they have lists of all the dissidents-thanks to the illegal witretapping-they have all the names-and they now have the means to take those people out..making it extremely difiicult to bring democracy to this country.

There is a reason the founding fathers-granted not the most desirable fellows-put in place all those checks against the authority-now they are being stripped away...and when the shit goes down the authorities will know just who to take out first.

But it won't matter...we will take the power back.

-on a side note-if a police chief decides he doesn't like you and your family you could ge tthe same treatement as the panthers did in the 80's...a bullet in the head. no questions asked.

El_Kabong

miller8966 wrote:

Yes because cover ups happen on a daily basis.

does it need to happen on a daily basis for it to be a bad call? how many drugs or weapons can one hide in under 10 seconds?? that would only be 1 flush from the toilet, if that, and even w/ that they'd have to have the drugs already out.

moeaholic

El_Kabong wrote:

does it need to happen on a daily basis for it to be a bad call? how many drugs or weapons can one hide in under 10 seconds?? that would only be 1 flush from the toilet, if that, and even w/ that they'd have to have the drugs already out.

or they could wedge a pipe between the door and the floor to give themselves more than 10 seconds. besides, haven't you ever watched goodfellas? she flushed a huge amount of coke and also hid a gun in her panties while they were still banging on the door.

MLC2006

El_Kabong wrote:

does it need to happen on a daily basis for it to be a bad call? how many drugs or weapons can one hide in under 10 seconds?? that would only be 1 flush from the toilet, if that, and even w/ that they'd have to have the drugs already out.

I couldn't care about how much drugs are flushed in 10 seconds. but one can arm themself with a semi-auto in well under 10 seconds.

Commy

MLC2006 wrote:

I couldn't care about how much drugs are flushed in 10 seconds. but one can arm themself with a semi-auto in well under 10 seconds.

nevermind the peaceful people that are willing to cooperate with the authorities...fuck, break down their doors, scare the shit out of their children...great procedure

MLC2006

Commy wrote:

nevermind the peaceful people that are willing to cooperate with the authorities...fuck, break down their doors, scare the shit out of their children...great procedure

yeah, because when warrants are served, it is usually in a nice house where the family is sitting around singing Barney songs and eating Christmas turkey.

chopitdown

Commy wrote:

nevermind the peaceful people that are willing to cooperate with the authorities...fuck, break down their doors, scare the shit out of their children...great procedure

again, do you honestly think the cops are now going to ram down every door in every circumstance and not knock in every circumstance?