Just because you were cheering the shock and awe campaign (which, incidentally, was never employed) in a sports bar does not mean that people were doing so all across America.
Yes, people were cheering all over this country. Toby Keith even had a hit song about 'shoving a boot up your ass' or something, wrapped himself up in the flag much like GW and sold to all of you war loving meatheads. And, of course, right on cue, so many of you guys ate it right up.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Yes, people were cheering all over this country. Toby Keith even had a hit song about 'shoving a boot up your ass' or something, wrapped himself up in the flag much like GW and sold to all of you war loving meatheads. And, of course, right on cue, so many of you guys ate it right up.
What have they done pre and post 9/11 to warrant our support?
Warrent your support? Such as economically strangling them for years you mean? Or supporting them by backing Israel 100%? I could go on and on. Fuck America's 'support'. America has never supported any other country if it didn't benefit them politically, economically, or militarily. the U.S supported Sadaam Hussain throughout the 1980's when he was gassing Kurds. The U.S supported the overthrow of Allende in Chile by a brutal dictator. Is that the kind of support you mean?
you can spin it all you want. the fact remains that innocent civillians are not targeted by the US military. much to the contrary of the policies of el queda
Innocent civilians supposedly weren't targeted by Israel in the recent bombardment of Lebanon. So what? Did that stop thousands of civilains from being killed? No. Did carpet bombing Afghanistan mean that civilians weren't targeted, and that those that were killed were simply 'in the way'? Your point is just meaningless semantics.
Could you explain to me what mistake she is making? I truely don't see how the people of baghdad in general are regarded the enemy, and considered guilty. I'm wondering what mistake i'm making here.
Also, what makes me wonder are some reactions to the massive amounts of murders between sunnites and shiítes (sp?), taking place every day.
Stated "They are doing it themselves", and refrain from all responsibility by referring to the free will with wich we, independant and non-influentiable humans, are so blessed with.
Yet Saddam is iraqi. Iraq is now liberated from Saddam, one of their own. Why did the USA feel responsible in the first place? They where doing it themselves all the while (e.g Ba'ath party). Why interfere?
I think USA is responsible for the murderings in terms of setting the premises. The invasion made it possible for all this shit to take place. If you invade to 'liberate' a country with 'freedom fighters' to bring freedom, now what is it that you bring along exactly? I hardly think we wanted to give them the freedom to pepper eachother in the face (cheney-style).
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
If a country intentionally starts a war and considers massive numbers of civilian casualties as an inevitable "side effect" then that country is intentionally killing civilians. In fact, all modern wars involve the intentional killing of civilians - and all successful wars involve the anihilation of the opposing country and the willful killing of thousands, maybe millions. If the only kind of war you can support involves simple "surgical strikes" and the slotting in of a new regime at the top, then please just admit that you don't have the stomach for war.
I believe they have. the US military doesnt strap bombs to themselves and blow themselves up in crowded markets and mosques.
This is the most tired excuse that you guys keep using...go watch Why We Fight and you'll see how accurate those 1000lb bombs are; to go beyond that if we wouldnt have invaded Iraq none of these suicide bombings would be happening. To say we're not responsible makes no sense.
Could you explain to me what mistake she is making? I truely don't see how the people of baghdad in general are regarded the enemy, and considered guilty. I'm wondering what mistake i'm making here
In my honest opinion, most of the people of these radically led countries are only one or two steps from being willing to wage jihad. THAT to me is the essential difference between a "radical islamic" country, and a christian based country. Most of the christian based population doesnt take religion too seriously. Most of those populations wouldnt even dream of taking up arms in the name of christ. IDK if we can say that for cultures like theirs. They take their religion seriously, and its not a minority.
In my honest opinion, most of the people of these radically led countries are only one or two steps from being willing to wage jihad.
Spent a lot of time in Iraq, have you? You seem to have your finger on the pulse of popular opinion.
How many Iraqis waged jihad on us before we invaded their country? Let's see .... *counts on fingers* ... um ... none! So is what they're doing "jihad" or "self-defense"?
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Innocent civilians supposedly weren't targeted by Israel in the recent bombardment of Lebanon. So what? Did that stop thousands of civilains from being killed? No. Did carpet bombing Afghanistan mean that civilians weren't targeted, and that those that were killed were simply 'in the way'? Your point is just meaningless semantics.
Im not going to defend what Israel does. im only concerned about what the US does. if they bombed civillians on purpose, then they are as wrong as the terroists.
second of all the US carpet bombed moutainious areas were very few, if any, civillians were.
you can spin it all you want. the fact remains that innocent civillians are not targeted by the US military.
No, they are not targeted by the US military. You are very correct in this, but the fact remains, and now you can spin it all you want, innocent people are killed by the US military, and not just a few people, a whole lot of people.
And wether it is intentional or not doesn't really matter, it certainly doesn't matter to the 6 year old who lost his entire family or to the father who lost his wife and kids, or to an 18 year old guy who lost his legs and sight.
Another thing is, this has happened so much, it wasn't just one mistake... so I guess the US military should already know they will kill innocent people. So can we really say they don't target innocent people? I mean, if you know innocent people will die and just continue bombing, then wherein lies the difference between targeting them or not? The fact that they continue this says one thing about the US army, they don't give a damn about innocent people being killed, they don't give a damn about people like your little brother, your father, babies ... look outside today, walk around in your street, all the people you see, the US military doesn't care about them.
Spent a lot of time in Iraq, have you? You seem to have your finger on the pulse of popular opinion.
How many Iraqis waged jihad on us before we invaded their country? Let's see .... *counts on fingers* ... um ... none! So is what they're doing "jihad" or "self-defense"?
Easy as pie to turn that right back at you. How many Iraqi's have you interviewed? How was your time in country? Besides Zinn and Chomsky, where and how do you form your opinions? And FYI, I never said whether any Iraqi's had "waged jihad", only that I felt that a LARGE portion of ANY islamic led nation are only a stone's throw away from waging jihad. ANd if you call IED's in public places taking their OWN citizens out along with a handful of marine's self defense, you are not worth bothering to talk to. Have a nice day.
Spent a lot of time in Iraq, have you? You seem to have your finger on the pulse of popular opinion.
How many Iraqis waged jihad on us before we invaded their country? Let's see .... *counts on fingers* ... um ... none! So is what they're doing "jihad" or "self-defense"?
They are indeed "jihading" themselves ... Sectarian conflict.
In my honest opinion, most of the people of these radically led countries are only one or two steps from being willing to wage jihad. THAT to me is the essential difference between a "radical islamic" country, and a christian based country. Most of the christian based population doesnt take religion too seriously. Most of those populations wouldnt even dream of taking up arms in the name of christ. IDK if we can say that for cultures like theirs. They take their religion seriously, and its not a minority.
People are people dude...it's the enviroment that makes people react the way they do...look at the LA Riots. Religion is a tool...it's used by radicals to recruit hopeless people who have nothing. Just like it was used here in the past elections to recruit people to vote so they feel they secured themselves a place in "heaven". "Tell you to pray, while the devil's on their shoulder" does that ring a bell?
I believe they have. the US military doesnt strap bombs to themselves and blow themselves up in crowded markets and mosques.
No, the US military just bombs the fuck outta the whole place!
The countries the US has bombed since WWII (compiled by historian William Blum):
1. China 1945-46
2. Korea 1950-53
3. China 1950-53
4. Guatemala 1954
5. Indonesia 1958
6. Cuba 1959-60
7. Guatemala 1960
8. Congo 1964
9. Peru 1965
10. Laos 1964-73
11. Vietnam 1961-73
12. Cambodia 1969-70
13. Guatemala 1967-69
14. Grenada 1983
15. Libya 1986
16. El Salvador 1980s
17. Nicaragua 1980s
18. Panama 1989
19. Iraq 1991-2003
20. Sudan 1998
21. Yugoslavia 1999
22. Afghanistan 1998, 2001-2002
23. Iraq 1998 - 2003
How many of these countries have formed a democratic government as a result of the military action:
(a) 0
(b) 0
(c) 0
(d) 0
The following information was compiled from various sources including: Harper's, Inter-Church Action, Haliftax Herald, Peace Magazine, New York Times, and CNN.
Value of 100 Iraqi dinars in 1990: $400.00 in 2000: 0.6 cents
Amount generated by UN's Oil for Food program per person per day: 70 cents
Decline in Oil for Food revenues after U.S. and Britain impose new pricing system in 2001: 40%
Increase in cost of food since 1990: 12,000 times
Number of Iraqis who depend upon their government for food: 80%
Number of water pumping stations bombed by US in Gulf war: 4 of 7
Iraqi hospitals bombed by US in Gulf War: 28
Percentage of Iraqi hospital equipment no longer working (1997): 75%
Value of medical equipment held by UN Sanctions Committee as "dual use" (2001): $1 billion
Number of times by July 2000 that the U.S. and Britain had vetoed humanitarian goods to Iraq as "dual use": 1,989
Items which were considered to be "dual use" by US government and therefore banned in Iraq: school supplies, desks, tables, paper, wastepaper baskets, pens, ink, pencils, baking soda, shampoo, shoes, coffins, needles for syringes, catheter bags, vaccines, ventilators, cardiac equipment, incubators, sterilizers, medical journals, violin strings
Year in which the U.S. blocked export of 200 Canadian ambulances to Iraq: 2002
Estimated cost of another war on Iraq: $50 - 200 billion dollars US
Number of Iraqi children estimated to die each month from sanction-related causes: 4,500
Total Number of people killed in September 11th: 3,031
I hadn't read this thread up until now. The first post attempted to change common opinion about Arabs and Muslims as a whole. By talking about the condemnation of terrorism in several countries including Iran and Palestine.
This message was quickly turned around into those same groups being terrorists. I think the point the OP was trying to make is that not all Muslims or Arabs are terrorists and a lot of them condemn the act of terrorism as it is not allowed in Muslim religion and it's inhumane.
Jihad literally means "struggle" I believe I've mentioned this before. Fighting this war online is my own personal Jihad. All 1.2 billion Muslims and then some engage in Jihad but not in the context of the sword. Those that do submit to Jihad by the sword tend not to target civilians. Osama Bin Laden stated in a video tape that he did not cause September 11, 2001 and stated it is against his Muslim beliefs to kill innocent people.
But, as seems to be the case, anti-Muslim, anti-Arab, Anti-Persian fucks will never see the truth. They can turn a peaceful anti-war protest into a terrorist training exercise.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I hadn't read this thread up until now. The first post attempted to change common opinion about Arabs and Muslims as a whole. By talking about the condemnation of terrorism in several countries including Iran and Palestine.
This message was quickly turned around into those same groups being terrorists. I think the point the OP was trying to make is that not all Muslims or Arabs are terrorists and a lot of them condemn the act of terrorism as it is not allowed in Muslim religion and it's inhumane.
Jihad literally means "struggle" I believe I've mentioned this before. Fighting this war online is my own personal Jihad. All 1.2 billion Muslims and then some engage in Jihad but not in the context of the sword. Those that do submit to Jihad by the sword tend not to target civilians. Osama Bin Laden stated in a video tape that he did not cause September 11, 2001 and stated it is against his Muslim beliefs to kill innocent people.
But, as seems to be the case, anti-Muslim, anti-Arab, Anti-Persian fucks will never see the truth. They can turn a peaceful anti-war protest into a terrorist training exercise.
exactly
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
so, you're saying she's a bigot for calling war loving ppl....meatheads....??? my god, talk about the pc police, are you guys serious???? too funny, man
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Comments
Yes, people were cheering all over this country. Toby Keith even had a hit song about 'shoving a boot up your ass' or something, wrapped himself up in the flag much like GW and sold to all of you war loving meatheads. And, of course, right on cue, so many of you guys ate it right up.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
If you're talking about the people of Baghdad in general, I have no quarrel with them and don't consider them enemies.
One of many mistakes you are making.
You are a bigot and you don't even know it.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
Warrent your support? Such as economically strangling them for years you mean? Or supporting them by backing Israel 100%? I could go on and on. Fuck America's 'support'. America has never supported any other country if it didn't benefit them politically, economically, or militarily. the U.S supported Sadaam Hussain throughout the 1980's when he was gassing Kurds. The U.S supported the overthrow of Allende in Chile by a brutal dictator. Is that the kind of support you mean?
Innocent civilians supposedly weren't targeted by Israel in the recent bombardment of Lebanon. So what? Did that stop thousands of civilains from being killed? No. Did carpet bombing Afghanistan mean that civilians weren't targeted, and that those that were killed were simply 'in the way'? Your point is just meaningless semantics.
Could you explain to me what mistake she is making? I truely don't see how the people of baghdad in general are regarded the enemy, and considered guilty. I'm wondering what mistake i'm making here.
Also, what makes me wonder are some reactions to the massive amounts of murders between sunnites and shiítes (sp?), taking place every day.
Stated "They are doing it themselves", and refrain from all responsibility by referring to the free will with wich we, independant and non-influentiable humans, are so blessed with.
Yet Saddam is iraqi. Iraq is now liberated from Saddam, one of their own. Why did the USA feel responsible in the first place? They where doing it themselves all the while (e.g Ba'ath party). Why interfere?
I think USA is responsible for the murderings in terms of setting the premises. The invasion made it possible for all this shit to take place. If you invade to 'liberate' a country with 'freedom fighters' to bring freedom, now what is it that you bring along exactly? I hardly think we wanted to give them the freedom to pepper eachother in the face (cheney-style).
Philip K. Dick.
This is the most tired excuse that you guys keep using...go watch Why We Fight and you'll see how accurate those 1000lb bombs are; to go beyond that if we wouldnt have invaded Iraq none of these suicide bombings would be happening. To say we're not responsible makes no sense.
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2003/12/12/iraq6582.htm
I thought we were liberating the Iraqi civilians? Does that mean they're our enemy? Which is it?
In my honest opinion, most of the people of these radically led countries are only one or two steps from being willing to wage jihad. THAT to me is the essential difference between a "radical islamic" country, and a christian based country. Most of the christian based population doesnt take religion too seriously. Most of those populations wouldnt even dream of taking up arms in the name of christ. IDK if we can say that for cultures like theirs. They take their religion seriously, and its not a minority.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
How many Iraqis waged jihad on us before we invaded their country? Let's see .... *counts on fingers* ... um ... none! So is what they're doing "jihad" or "self-defense"?
Im not going to defend what Israel does. im only concerned about what the US does. if they bombed civillians on purpose, then they are as wrong as the terroists.
second of all the US carpet bombed moutainious areas were very few, if any, civillians were.
No, they are not targeted by the US military. You are very correct in this, but the fact remains, and now you can spin it all you want, innocent people are killed by the US military, and not just a few people, a whole lot of people.
And wether it is intentional or not doesn't really matter, it certainly doesn't matter to the 6 year old who lost his entire family or to the father who lost his wife and kids, or to an 18 year old guy who lost his legs and sight.
Another thing is, this has happened so much, it wasn't just one mistake... so I guess the US military should already know they will kill innocent people. So can we really say they don't target innocent people? I mean, if you know innocent people will die and just continue bombing, then wherein lies the difference between targeting them or not? The fact that they continue this says one thing about the US army, they don't give a damn about innocent people being killed, they don't give a damn about people like your little brother, your father, babies ... look outside today, walk around in your street, all the people you see, the US military doesn't care about them.
naděje umírá poslední
Easy as pie to turn that right back at you. How many Iraqi's have you interviewed? How was your time in country? Besides Zinn and Chomsky, where and how do you form your opinions? And FYI, I never said whether any Iraqi's had "waged jihad", only that I felt that a LARGE portion of ANY islamic led nation are only a stone's throw away from waging jihad. ANd if you call IED's in public places taking their OWN citizens out along with a handful of marine's self defense, you are not worth bothering to talk to. Have a nice day.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
Enlighten me as to how?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
They are indeed "jihading" themselves ... Sectarian conflict.
You were wondering why people call you bigoted?
I meant meatheads endearingly...like Archie Bunker to...what's his name...Meathead.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
People are people dude...it's the enviroment that makes people react the way they do...look at the LA Riots. Religion is a tool...it's used by radicals to recruit hopeless people who have nothing. Just like it was used here in the past elections to recruit people to vote so they feel they secured themselves a place in "heaven". "Tell you to pray, while the devil's on their shoulder" does that ring a bell?
No, the US military just bombs the fuck outta the whole place!
The countries the US has bombed since WWII (compiled by historian William Blum):
1. China 1945-46
2. Korea 1950-53
3. China 1950-53
4. Guatemala 1954
5. Indonesia 1958
6. Cuba 1959-60
7. Guatemala 1960
8. Congo 1964
9. Peru 1965
10. Laos 1964-73
11. Vietnam 1961-73
12. Cambodia 1969-70
13. Guatemala 1967-69
14. Grenada 1983
15. Libya 1986
16. El Salvador 1980s
17. Nicaragua 1980s
18. Panama 1989
19. Iraq 1991-2003
20. Sudan 1998
21. Yugoslavia 1999
22. Afghanistan 1998, 2001-2002
23. Iraq 1998 - 2003
How many of these countries have formed a democratic government as a result of the military action:
(a) 0
(b) 0
(c) 0
(d) 0
The following information was compiled from various sources including: Harper's, Inter-Church Action, Haliftax Herald, Peace Magazine, New York Times, and CNN.
Value of 100 Iraqi dinars in 1990: $400.00 in 2000: 0.6 cents
Amount generated by UN's Oil for Food program per person per day: 70 cents
Decline in Oil for Food revenues after U.S. and Britain impose new pricing system in 2001: 40%
Increase in cost of food since 1990: 12,000 times
Number of Iraqis who depend upon their government for food: 80%
Number of water pumping stations bombed by US in Gulf war: 4 of 7
Iraqi hospitals bombed by US in Gulf War: 28
Percentage of Iraqi hospital equipment no longer working (1997): 75%
Value of medical equipment held by UN Sanctions Committee as "dual use" (2001): $1 billion
Number of times by July 2000 that the U.S. and Britain had vetoed humanitarian goods to Iraq as "dual use": 1,989
Items which were considered to be "dual use" by US government and therefore banned in Iraq: school supplies, desks, tables, paper, wastepaper baskets, pens, ink, pencils, baking soda, shampoo, shoes, coffins, needles for syringes, catheter bags, vaccines, ventilators, cardiac equipment, incubators, sterilizers, medical journals, violin strings
Year in which the U.S. blocked export of 200 Canadian ambulances to Iraq: 2002
Estimated cost of another war on Iraq: $50 - 200 billion dollars US
Number of Iraqi children estimated to die each month from sanction-related causes: 4,500
Total Number of people killed in September 11th: 3,031
Above info. from: http://www.highlandspeaceaction.org/facts.html
Another link:
http://www.chrononhotonthologos.com/lawnotes/usbomber.htm
Peace!
I hadn't read this thread up until now. The first post attempted to change common opinion about Arabs and Muslims as a whole. By talking about the condemnation of terrorism in several countries including Iran and Palestine.
This message was quickly turned around into those same groups being terrorists. I think the point the OP was trying to make is that not all Muslims or Arabs are terrorists and a lot of them condemn the act of terrorism as it is not allowed in Muslim religion and it's inhumane.
Jihad literally means "struggle" I believe I've mentioned this before. Fighting this war online is my own personal Jihad. All 1.2 billion Muslims and then some engage in Jihad but not in the context of the sword. Those that do submit to Jihad by the sword tend not to target civilians. Osama Bin Laden stated in a video tape that he did not cause September 11, 2001 and stated it is against his Muslim beliefs to kill innocent people.
But, as seems to be the case, anti-Muslim, anti-Arab, Anti-Persian fucks will never see the truth. They can turn a peaceful anti-war protest into a terrorist training exercise.
exactly
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
so, you're saying she's a bigot for calling war loving ppl....meatheads....??? my god, talk about the pc police, are you guys serious???? too funny, man
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way